MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened

[greekbuck34]

Giannis needs to come out and destroy the Lakers tonight, because if the opposite happens and LeBron goes all out (which he will) and takes the game and plays better than Giannis, we all know damn well what narrative the media will run after

You don't see the post 1049 on this page…

Said what you want!

there are still 20 games left, and I can see the media LeBron narrative building more and more everyday, if he LeBron has a better game tonight than Giannis and gets the dub, they're gonna run with it

Giannis needs to come out and completely obliterate Bron and the Lakers and put this 'race' to rest

What happens if the Lakers win a close game with AD being the best player of his team just like the first game with like 35-40p and DPOY defense and both Giannis and Lebron have a quite for their standards night?

[scrabbarista]

Westbrook had a near 30p triple double and a +37 against Memphis, probably one of the best games of his career in Boston and 24 and 29 points in the last two Rockets losses and he is top 5 faller.

Harden had 30 points and +7 against Memphis, probably his worst game this season in Boston, 35 in the Knicks loss and 16 in the Clippers loss and he was still positive.

That's just cruel for Westbrook.

The Memphis game was last week. Harden had a -0.3 plus-minus this week. Westbrook was -8.3.

[HotRocks34]

I think the Lakers have a good shot to win tonight, particularly if Hill is out for the Bucks.

But, nothing changes. You still have a guy who leads the league in PER, WS48, BPM, RPM, Best Record against a person who doesn't even lead his team in PER or WS48 or BPM.

There's kind of a 'window' in which you can make a case to give a less-deserving person an award over a more-deserving person. But right now, we're outside that window, IMO. Trying to give LeBron the award over Giannis at this point -- even if the Lakers win tonight -- just fails every smell test that exists. It won't work.

The voters may have biases, but they have to maintain their credibility. It's ok to hype things up for clicks and views, but actually making a vote against all logic is another thing altogether.

This also doesn't include the potential of
- Bucks winning 70 games
- Giannis finishing with the best PER season in NBA history

[greekbuck34]

Westbrook had a near 30p triple double and a +37 against Memphis, probably one of the best games of his career in Boston and 24 and 29 points in the last two Rockets losses and he is top 5 faller.

Harden had 30 points and +7 against Memphis, probably his worst game this season in Boston, 35 in the Knicks loss and 16 in the Clippers loss and he was still positive.

That's just cruel for Westbrook.

The Memphis game was last week. Harden had a -0.3 plus-minus this week. Westbrook was -8.3.

On your post the team record for Westbrook is (2-2). So I thought your update included the last 4 games and Memphis was one of those. But still I doubt that's enough for him to be this negative(especially with what he did against Boston) while Harden is still positive despite 2 of his worst games of the season in the last 3 games.

Anyway it doesn't matter..

[scrabbarista]

Westbrook had a near 30p triple double and a +37 against Memphis, probably one of the best games of his career in Boston and 24 and 29 points in the last two Rockets losses and he is top 5 faller.

Harden had 30 points and +7 against Memphis, probably his worst game this season in Boston, 35 in the Knicks loss and 16 in the Clippers loss and he was still positive.

That's just cruel for Westbrook.

The Memphis game was last week. Harden had a -0.3 plus-minus this week. Westbrook was -8.3.

On your post the team record for Westbrook is (2-2). So I thought your update included the last 4 games and Memphis was one of those. But still I doubt that's enough for him to be this negative(especially with what he did against Boston) while Harden is still positive despite 2 of his worst games of the season in the last 3 games.

Anyway it doesn't matter..

Thanks for the tip. Should be 1-2. My bad. I'll change it now. Also, Harden is positive by 0.04 - a miniscule number that's purely because of the one team win. Otherwise, he'd be 0.0 for the week. The difference between them for the week (less than 0.4) is pretty small, considering the gigantic difference in +/-.

[Homer38]

Luka is 3rd on this list.

Read on Twitter

[KGtabake]

Luka is 3rd on this list.

Read on Twitter

Jokic will never be appreciated in this league. It's ok. We love ya big fella!

[draftbarnes]

Having anthony davis as a second option vs khris Middleton helps a lot

Giannis should be mvp

[Barnzy]

Your 2019-2020 MVP, LeBron James!

[draftbarnes]

Your 2019-2020 MVP, LeBron James!

Yeah the dude playing next to another top 5 player

[LikeABosh]

Having anthony davis as a second option vs khris Middleton helps a lot

Giannis should be mvp

Giannis is obviously MVP, but not because LeBron has Davis. It's not a 2v2 game

[jaymo123]

Giannis is the MVP because who is the second option on the Bucks? Giannis is leaving Milwaukee after next year.

[OriginalRed]

And people want me to believe Lebron is the MVP when he has a second option like that lol?

[Benedict_Boozer]

Giannis F'ed up, can't lose a head to head game like that and get dominated by the king with all eyes watching

The MIL coach even had to basically force switches so Giannis didn't have to go at Lebron anymore when the dude is 35

Recency bias is real in the media and the record gap is close enough that it's getting dangerously close for Giannis, can't give the media this kind of opening

[HotRocks34]

I think the Lakers have a good shot to win tonight, particularly if Hill is out for the Bucks.

But, nothing changes. You still have a guy who leads the league in PER, WS48, BPM, RPM, Best Record against a person who doesn't even lead his team in PER or WS48 or BPM.

There's kind of a 'window' in which you can make a case to give a less-deserving person an award over a more-deserving person. But right now, we're outside that window, IMO. Trying to give LeBron the award over Giannis at this point -- even if the Lakers win tonight -- just fails every smell test that exists. It won't work.

The voters may have biases, but they have to maintain their credibility. It's ok to hype things up for clicks and views, but actually making a vote against all logic is another thing altogether.

This also doesn't include the potential of
- Bucks winning 70 games
- Giannis finishing with the best PER season in NBA history

^ Re-upping from earlier today

Nothing has changed. For LeBron to have had any realistic hopes of winning the MVP, he needed a "Biden wins South Carolina"-level narrative change tonight and that didn't happen.

Giannis -------> 32/11/6
LeBron --------> 37/8/8

1st meeting
Giannis --------> 34/11/7
LeBron ---------> 21/12/11

Two games combined
Giannis ---------> 66/22/13
LeBron ----------> 58/20/19


Pretty much a wash in their two meetings (including 1-1 record). But Giannis still better in all the categories mentioned above, and LeBron still may not even lead his own team in PER, WS48 or BPM.

Barring a Bucks meltdown or Giannis injury, the race is over and has been over for some time.

[Barnzy]

I think the Lakers have a good shot to win tonight, particularly if Hill is out for the Bucks.

But, nothing changes. You still have a guy who leads the league in PER, WS48, BPM, RPM, Best Record against a person who doesn't even lead his team in PER or WS48 or BPM.

There's kind of a 'window' in which you can make a case to give a less-deserving person an award over a more-deserving person. But right now, we're outside that window, IMO. Trying to give LeBron the award over Giannis at this point -- even if the Lakers win tonight -- just fails every smell test that exists. It won't work.

The voters may have biases, but they have to maintain their credibility. It's ok to hype things up for clicks and views, but actually making a vote against all logic is another thing altogether.

This also doesn't include the potential of
- Bucks winning 70 games
- Giannis finishing with the best PER season in NBA history

^ Re-upping from earlier today

Nothing has changed. For LeBron to have any hopes of the MVP, he needed a "Biden wins South Carolina" narrative change tonight and that didn't happen.

Giannis -------> 32/11/6
LeBron --------> 37/8/8

1st meeting
Giannis --------> 34/11/7
LeBron ---------> 21/12/11

Two games combined
Giannis ---------> 66/22/13
LeBron ----------> 58/20/19


Pretty much a wash in their two meetings (including 1-1 record). But Giannis still better in all the categories mentioned above, and LeBron still may not even lead his own team in PER, WS48 or BPM.

Barring a Bucks meltdown or Giannis injury, the race is over and has been over for some time.

Not according to the media who vote on the actual award.

But keep telling yourself it's over. LMAO

[HotRocks34]

But keep telling yourself it's over. LMAO

It's over.

This was LeBron's last chance to really change the conversation, and it didn't happen. Getting to a 1-1 split with the Bucks helps, but Giannis played a good game and LeBron didn't get the separation he needed to overcome the stats deficit he faces with both Giannis and possibly even his own teammate, Davis.

We're done. Unless the Bucks tank or Giannis gets hurt. Someone posted an informal poll of some of the voters (recent poll) just a little bit upthread, and LeBron was being blown out. Tonight won't change many minds, I don't think. Certainly not enough for LeBron to win the award, if the poll is at all representative of most voters.

[Jurassic_Park]

I think the Lakers have a good shot to win tonight, particularly if Hill is out for the Bucks.

But, nothing changes. You still have a guy who leads the league in PER, WS48, BPM, RPM, Best Record against a person who doesn't even lead his team in PER or WS48 or BPM.

There's kind of a 'window' in which you can make a case to give a less-deserving person an award over a more-deserving person. But right now, we're outside that window, IMO. Trying to give LeBron the award over Giannis at this point -- even if the Lakers win tonight -- just fails every smell test that exists. It won't work.

The voters may have biases, but they have to maintain their credibility. It's ok to hype things up for clicks and views, but actually making a vote against all logic is another thing altogether.

This also doesn't include the potential of
- Bucks winning 70 games
- Giannis finishing with the best PER season in NBA history

^ Re-upping from earlier today

Nothing has changed. For LeBron to have any hopes of the MVP, he needed a "Biden wins South Carolina" narrative change tonight and that didn't happen.

Giannis -------> 32/11/6
LeBron --------> 37/8/8

1st meeting
Giannis --------> 34/11/7
LeBron ---------> 21/12/11

Two games combined
Giannis ---------> 66/22/13
LeBron ----------> 58/20/19


Pretty much a wash in their two meetings (including 1-1 record). But Giannis still better in all the categories mentioned above, and LeBron still may not even lead his own team in PER, WS48 or BPM.

Barring a Bucks meltdown or Giannis injury, the race is over and has been over for some time.

Not according to the media who vote on the actual award.

But keep telling yourself it's over. LMAO

you do realize.. skip bayless.. shannon sharpe, etc don't get to vote right? The ones who do (i.e. Broussard), have already said Giannis is way way ahead, and it would take an injury or major collapse for him to lose it.

They've all stated the same things hot rocks did (Giannis leads in all stats and advanced stats) and the fact that lebron does not....even on his own team.

[HotRocks34]

Update. Yeah, it's over. Here's the informal MVP voter poll data from like a day ago. This seems to be about a third of the voters:

viewtopic.php?p=82282740#p82282740

Basically, LeBron has 1 first place vote and Giannis has 32 first place votes. Tonight isn't likely to move the needle much at all, certainly not enough to hand LeBron the award.

[MisterHibachi]

LeBron's not winning MVP, people can stop crying about Giannis being robbed. This game was just about whether it's a unanimous MVP or not.