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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1501 » by doclinkin » Wed Mar 4, 2020 4:48 pm

payitforward wrote:It was doc comparing Wiseman's physical profile to David Robinson that raised the subject in my mind.


Right. I said he won't slip in the draft after the combine measurements. So long as its understood I'm talking anthropometrics, not HOF likelihood.

Wiseman compares favorably to David Robinson as a freshman at Navy. Robinson became The Admiral though because of will and work ethic, and four years development in school learning to lead a team, and character, etc.

Wiseman has an entire school year working with John Wall/DWade/Oladipo's fitness guru David Alexander. His measurables will make teams sit up and pay attention when they can finally put a tape measure on him. His short Memphis career won't hurt him, he was putting up double doubles easily, showed good effort on both sides of the court, rebounded out of his space, ran the floor willingly every possession, showed nice touch in the midrange when forced to shoot. In his debut game he showed he could start a possession under the basket and be the first down the court to finish at the other end. Good lateral mobility and awareness suggest he will be able to guard the pick and roll and recover.

Stil. He's young with zero experience. I would have him working with a Big Man skills coach in addition to the biomechanical training. He's gonna look great coming out of the gate and will be drafted high. How quickly he will adjust to the next level depends on the intangibles that a player like David Robinson had like ribbons on an admirals uniform. That's where all future success derives past the first contract. Otherwise JaVale McGee would be a first ballot HOFer.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1502 » by wall_glizzy » Wed Mar 4, 2020 5:12 pm

nate33 wrote:Giannis
Kawhi
Lebron
Davis
Doncic
Harden

Embiid
Jokic
Lillard
C.Paul

Those players in the top 6 are pretty much indisputable. Maybe someone can find someone else who they'd consider top 6, but not enough guys to bump any of those top 6 out of the top 10.

The last 4 players are a bit more debatable. I could listen to arguments for guys like Butler, Towns and Tatum.


I'm assuming that no Curry was just an oversight - I'd add him to the first tier, drop Doncic down one, and probably bump... CP3 to keep it at an even ten. That top six is pretty much consensus as a tier, although I'm sure everyone would order it differently.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1503 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 4, 2020 5:44 pm

wall_glizzy wrote:
nate33 wrote:Giannis
Kawhi
Lebron
Davis
Doncic
Harden

Embiid
Jokic
Lillard
C.Paul

Those players in the top 6 are pretty much indisputable. Maybe someone can find someone else who they'd consider top 6, but not enough guys to bump any of those top 6 out of the top 10.

The last 4 players are a bit more debatable. I could listen to arguments for guys like Butler, Towns and Tatum.


I'm assuming that no Curry was just an oversight - I'd add him to the first tier, drop Doncic down one, and probably bump... CP3 to keep it at an even ten. That top six is pretty much consensus as a tier, although I'm sure everyone would order it differently.

I was talking about this season, which naturally excludes Curry and Durant.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1504 » by DCZards » Wed Mar 4, 2020 5:44 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Interesting discussion...

Who are the ten best players in the league right now?


Giannis
Kawhi
Lebron
Davis
Doncic
Harden

Embiid
Jokic
Lillard
C.Paul

Those players in the top 6 are pretty much indisputable. Maybe someone can find someone else who they'd consider top 6, but not enough guys to bump any of those top 6 out of the top 10.

The last 4 players are a bit more debatable. I could listen to arguments for guys like Butler, Towns and Tatum.


I’d argue for Westbrook to possibly crack the last 4.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1505 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 4, 2020 6:39 pm

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Interesting discussion...

Who are the ten best players in the league right now?


Giannis
Kawhi
Lebron
Davis
Doncic
Harden

Embiid
Jokic
Lillard
C.Paul

Those players in the top 6 are pretty much indisputable. Maybe someone can find someone else who they'd consider top 6, but not enough guys to bump any of those top 6 out of the top 10.

The last 4 players are a bit more debatable. I could listen to arguments for guys like Butler, Towns and Tatum.


I’d argue for Westbrook to possibly crack the last 4.

His production over the last month certainly gives him some consideration. That said, I tend to discount Westbrook because he needs such a specific team around him to succeed. It's very difficult to build an effective 5-out offense around a PG while still having good defense. Westbrook has not been a top 10 player alongside conventional big men. That lack of flexibility is a factor.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1506 » by gambitx777 » Wed Mar 4, 2020 7:46 pm

So if bertains decided to leave and chance big money. Do we explore a sign and trade ? Whats the best we could get and to where ???

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1507 » by pcbothwel » Wed Mar 4, 2020 8:20 pm

gambitx777 wrote:So if bertains decided to leave and chance big money. Do we explore a sign and trade ? Whats the best we could get and to where ???

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This is actually interesting and thought about it before. We would need to take on a bad/neutral salary and it would need to be an over the cap team. I.E.
Gary Harris + 1st .... Or Will Barton Straight up
Aaron Gordon
Josh Richardson

Otherwise, we get a big TPE...which im cool with
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1508 » by gambitx777 » Wed Mar 4, 2020 8:44 pm

I was thinking about this too. I think that if a team with a shot ton of cap room IE the Hawks or hornets, offer him 20-25 mill then we work a sign and trade and take maybe a young piece a pick and/or a big ass TPE.
pcbothwel wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:So if bertains decided to leave and chance big money. Do we explore a sign and trade ? Whats the best we could get and to where ???

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app


This is actually interesting and thought about it before. We would need to take on a bad/neutral salary and it would need to be an over the cap team. I.E.
Gary Harris + 1st .... Or Will Barton Straight up
Aaron Gordon
Josh Richardson

Otherwise, we get a big TPE...which im cool with


Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1509 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 4, 2020 10:04 pm

gambitx777 wrote:I was thinking about this too. I think that if a team with a shot ton of cap room IE the Hawks or hornets, offer him 20-25 mill then we work a sign and trade and take maybe a young piece a pick and/or a big ass TPE.
pcbothwel wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:So if bertains decided to leave and chance big money. Do we explore a sign and trade ? Whats the best we could get and to where ???

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app


This is actually interesting and thought about it before. We would need to take on a bad/neutral salary and it would need to be an over the cap team. I.E.
Gary Harris + 1st .... Or Will Barton Straight up
Aaron Gordon
Josh Richardson

Otherwise, we get a big TPE...which im cool with


Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

I don't think an under-the-cap team would offer much incentive to sign Bertans. It's one thing to cough up $15M a year for guy who might not be capable of starting on a playoff team. It's another to spend that money AND give up a pick or prospect as compensation.

I suppose we could work out a deal where we agree not to bid up the price in exchange for compensation. For example: let's say we're willing to pay as much as $16M per year for Bertans. Atlanta could give us a future pick in exchange for us just letting him go so that they could pay him just $12M a year - sort of what Indiana did with Malcolm Brogdan.

We would end up with a future Atlanta pick plus a $12M TPE which could be very valuable by the Trade Deadline next year (when teams are getting under the cap to play the free agency market in 2021).

All that said, I don't see it happening for the same reason a trade didn't happen at the Trade Deadline this February: we want to start competing for the playoffs right now and don't want to wait around to develop some future pick.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1510 » by Ruzious » Wed Mar 4, 2020 10:42 pm

nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I was thinking about this too. I think that if a team with a shot ton of cap room IE the Hawks or hornets, offer him 20-25 mill then we work a sign and trade and take maybe a young piece a pick and/or a big ass TPE.
pcbothwel wrote:
This is actually interesting and thought about it before. We would need to take on a bad/neutral salary and it would need to be an over the cap team. I.E.
Gary Harris + 1st .... Or Will Barton Straight up
Aaron Gordon
Josh Richardson

Otherwise, we get a big TPE...which im cool with


Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

I don't think an under-the-cap team would offer much incentive to sign Bertans. It's one thing to cough up $15M a year for guy who might not be capable of starting on a playoff team. It's another to spend that money AND give up a pick or prospect as compensation.

I suppose we could work out a deal where we agree not to bid up the price in exchange for compensation. For example: let's say we're willing to pay as much as $16M per year for Bertans. Atlanta could give us a future pick in exchange for us just letting him go so that they could pay him just $12M a year - sort of what Indiana did with Malcolm Brogdan.

We would end up with a future Atlanta pick plus a $12M TPE which could be very valuable by the Trade Deadline next year (when teams are getting under the cap to play the free agency market in 2021).

All that said, I don't see it happening for the same reason a trade didn't happen at the Trade Deadline this February: we want to start competing for the playoffs right now and don't want to wait around to develop some future pick.

Usually the types of trades that Indiana did with Brogdon happen with RFA's, but with Bertans being a UFA, a team doesn't have to worry about Washington matching their offer. Washington lacks leverage to do that.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1511 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 4, 2020 10:51 pm

Ruzious wrote:Usually the types of trades that Indiana did with Brogdon happen with RFA's, but with Bertans being a UFA, a team doesn't have to worry about Washington matching their offer. Washington lacks leverage to do that.

Good point.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1512 » by gambitx777 » Thu Mar 5, 2020 4:57 am

But teams ussually will sometime do other GM's a favor and do a sign and trade.so a team gets a TPE.
Ruzious wrote:
nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I was thinking about this too. I think that if a team with a shot ton of cap room IE the Hawks or hornets, offer him 20-25 mill then we work a sign and trade and take maybe a young piece a pick and/or a big ass TPE.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

I don't think an under-the-cap team would offer much incentive to sign Bertans. It's one thing to cough up $15M a year for guy who might not be capable of starting on a playoff team. It's another to spend that money AND give up a pick or prospect as compensation.

I suppose we could work out a deal where we agree not to bid up the price in exchange for compensation. For example: let's say we're willing to pay as much as $16M per year for Bertans. Atlanta could give us a future pick in exchange for us just letting him go so that they could pay him just $12M a year - sort of what Indiana did with Malcolm Brogdan.

We would end up with a future Atlanta pick plus a $12M TPE which could be very valuable by the Trade Deadline next year (when teams are getting under the cap to play the free agency market in 2021).

All that said, I don't see it happening for the same reason a trade didn't happen at the Trade Deadline this February: we want to start competing for the playoffs right now and don't want to wait around to develop some future pick.

Usually the types of trades that Indiana did with Brogdon happen with RFA's, but with Bertans being a UFA, a team doesn't have to worry about Washington matching their offer. Washington lacks leverage to do that.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1513 » by deneem4 » Sat Mar 7, 2020 3:29 am

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Interesting discussion...

Who are the ten best players in the league right now?


Giannis
Kawhi
Lebron
Davis
Doncic
Harden

Embiid
Jokic
Lillard
C.Paul

Those players in the top 6 are pretty much indisputable. Maybe someone can find someone else who they'd consider top 6, but not enough guys to bump any of those top 6 out of the top 10.

The last 4 players are a bit more debatable. I could listen to arguments for guys like Butler, Towns and Tatum.


I’d argue for Westbrook to possibly crack the last 4.



Definitely take doncic out top 6 and put jokic
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1514 » by deneem4 » Sat Mar 7, 2020 3:30 am

Any scoring vet centers we can get in the off season
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1515 » by gambitx777 » Sat Mar 7, 2020 4:02 am

We really don't need scoring . We need athletic 4 and 5 defenders and you get those in the draft. I'm leaning more and more towards teasing Bryant every day.
deneem4 wrote:Any scoring vet centers we can get in the off season


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1516 » by nate33 » Sat Mar 7, 2020 4:33 am

deneem4 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Giannis
Kawhi
Lebron
Davis
Doncic
Harden

Embiid
Jokic
Lillard
C.Paul

Those players in the top 6 are pretty much indisputable. Maybe someone can find someone else who they'd consider top 6, but not enough guys to bump any of those top 6 out of the top 10.

The last 4 players are a bit more debatable. I could listen to arguments for guys like Butler, Towns and Tatum.


I’d argue for Westbrook to possibly crack the last 4.



Definitely take doncic out top 6 and put jokic

I disagree. The problem with Jokic is that he's a mediocre defender. That kills you in the playoffs. Doncic is also a mediocre defender, but he can be hidden on a bad offensive wing, and he compensates for his mediocre defense with great defensive rebounding.

Also, all else being equal, a great offensive wing is better than a great offensive center because you can't always get a center the ball when and where you want it.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1517 » by deneem4 » Sat Mar 7, 2020 4:44 am

gambitx777 wrote:We really don't need scoring . We need athletic 4 and 5 defenders and you get those in the draft. I'm leaning more and more towards teasing Bryant every day.
deneem4 wrote:Any scoring vet centers we can get in the off season


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Nah we need someone who can get in the paint post up n open it for out shooters, Hachi might be that guy but not yet
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1518 » by deneem4 » Sat Mar 7, 2020 4:47 am

nate33 wrote:
deneem4 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
I’d argue for Westbrook to possibly crack the last 4.



Definitely take doncic out top 6 and put jokic

I disagree. The problem with Jokic is that he's a mediocre defender. That kills you in the playoffs. Doncic is also a mediocre defender, but he can be hidden on a bad offensive wing, and he compensates for his mediocre defense with great defensive rebounding.

Also, all else being equal, a great offensive wing is better than a great offensive center because you can't always get a center the ball when and where you want it.


Jokic is way more than an offensive center, the nuggets are 3rd for a reason, doncic needs porzingis and curry...u switch doncic and jokic, Dallas easily become the better team...
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1519 » by gambitx777 » Sat Mar 7, 2020 5:29 am

But he can be. Plus who says you don't get that in a big athletic rim protector. You also have wall which will help in that department surrounded by shooters with an open driving lane.
deneem4 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:We really don't need scoring . We need athletic 4 and 5 defenders and you get those in the draft. I'm leaning more and more towards teasing Bryant every day.
deneem4 wrote:Any scoring vet centers we can get in the off season


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Nah we need someone who can get in the paint post up n open it for out shooters, Hachi might be that guy but not yet


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1520 » by deneem4 » Sat Mar 7, 2020 5:53 am

gambitx777 wrote:But he can be. Plus who says you don't get that in a big athletic rim protector. You also have wall which will help in that department surrounded by shooters with an open driving lane.
deneem4 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:We really don't need scoring . We need athletic 4 and 5 defenders and you get those in the draft. I'm leaning more and more towards teasing Bryant every day.

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Nah we need someone who can get in the paint post up n open it for out shooters, Hachi might be that guy but not yet


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I agree, but just having a big who can work the post when shots not falling can help, he can come off the bench but we need one
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!

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