MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened

[Hakeemthegoat]

The Travelling Greek is no match for Lebron.

[C0bR]

Updated stats from after the Bucks-Lakers game.

* = leads the NBA

Giannis ---------> 31.6 PER*; .286 WS48*; 11.5 BPM*; best record in the league
Davis ------------> 28.3 PER; .262 WS48; 8.5 BPM
LeBron ----------> 25.9 PER; .215 WS48; 8.4 BPM


So we're basically at the same point as before the game. But LeBron has no more chances against Giannis and the Bucks. Davis' presence and dominance likely ends any chance LeBron would have for the award.

I guess Kobe should've won the '06 MVP because Amare was in fact the best player on the Suns

[HotRocks34]

I guess Kobe should've won the '06 MVP because Amare was in fact the best player on the Suns

Yeah. The "Nash outcome" is probably the best that LeBron can hope for here, although Nash's MVP was panned by many in the time to come.

Amare had the better PER and WS48 than Nash, but Nash had the superior BPM (in 2005).

Also, Nash had led one of the best offenses in NBA history the year prior (114.5 ORTG in 2005) and was the defending MVP. He had momentum then, momentum which non-playoffs LeBron lacks.

The other advantage for Nash in 2006 was that there was no person above a 28.1 PER that year, and certainly not someone challenging for the best PER season in NBA history (who also was on the team with the best record in the league).

The logical possibilities for LeBron to win the award are almost zero. Nash 2005-2006 kind of helps his case, but also kind of doesn't help his case for the two reasons I just mentioned.

[KGtabake]

The Travelling Greek is no match for Lebron.

The flopping beard is no match for the goat Trae Young.

[Statlanta]

I think the game shows that both the Lakers and Bucks are on the same tier. It also shows that Giannis current season isn't a unanimous historic MVP season like say a 2016 Curry.

Giannis deserves the MVP but he definitely has clear observable weaknesses in his game even after improving off of last year, especially in the half court if he can still be guarded by an athletically diminished 35 year old LeBron James.

[yoyoboy]

Updated stats from after the Bucks-Lakers game.

* = leads the NBA

Giannis ---------> 31.6 PER*; .286 WS48*; 11.5 BPM*; best record in the league
Davis ------------> 28.3 PER; .262 WS48; 8.5 BPM
LeBron ----------> 25.9 PER; .215 WS48; 8.4 BPM


So we're basically at the same point as before the game. But LeBron has no more chances against Giannis and the Bucks. Davis' presence and dominance likely ends any chance LeBron would have for the award.

Giannis is clearly the MVP for this season and one game obviously doesn’t change anything. With 20 games left a lot would have to go wrong for the Freak to change things and it ain’t happening.

But bringing up worthless all-in-one box score stats doesn’t really strengthen your point much. AD as good as he is hasn’t been nearly as valuable as LeBron this year. And this trend of “let’s only compare the second best player on each team and whoever has the worse second option clearly has the worse 2-15 supporting cast!” is so tiresome at this point.

[NyKnicks1714]

Updated stats from after the Bucks-Lakers game.

* = leads the NBA

Giannis ---------> 31.6 PER*; .286 WS48*; 11.5 BPM*; best record in the league
Davis ------------> 28.3 PER; .262 WS48; 8.5 BPM
LeBron ----------> 25.9 PER; .215 WS48; 8.4 BPM


So we're basically at the same point as before the game. But LeBron has no more chances against Giannis and the Bucks. Davis' presence and dominance likely ends any chance LeBron would have for the award.

Giannis is clearly the MVP for this season and one game obviously doesn’t change anything. With 20 games left a lot would have to go wrong for the Freak to change things and it ain’t happening.

But bringing up worthless all-in-one box score stats doesn’t really strengthen your point much. AD as good as he is hasn’t been nearly as valuable as LeBron this year. And this trend of “let’s only compare the second best player on each team and whoever has the worse second option clearly has the worse 2-15 supporting cast!” is so tiresome at this point.

Seriously, there are plenty of arguments for why Giannis is the MVP. If you're going to use the teammates argument, you're losing. The Bucks without Giannis are easily better than the Lakers without LeBron.

[clyde21]

And this trend of “let’s only compare the second best player on each team and whoever has the worse second option clearly has the worse 2-15 supporting cast!” is so tiresome at this point.

funny, that's all what you LeBron guys were doing the last 3 years with Steph/Durant.

all the sudden.

[HotRocks34]

OK, we now have a serious update on the MVP race:
https://thespun.com/nba/milwaukee-bucks/espn-insider-has-injury-update-on-giannis-antetokounmpo

Milwaukee’s Giannis Antetokounmpo is getting a precautionary MRI on his left knee, league sources tell ESPN

Things could actually change now. We'll see.

[Homer38]

And this trend of “let’s only compare the second best player on each team and whoever has the worse second option clearly has the worse 2-15 supporting cast!” is so tiresome at this point.

funny, that's all what you LeBron guys were doing the last 3 years with Steph/Durant.

all the sudden.

Don't compare the 2020 Lakers to the 2017 Warriors...I mean even with Davis,not many had predicted the first seed to the lakers before the season,much less by over 5 games in march!

[yoyoboy]

And this trend of “let’s only compare the second best player on each team and whoever has the worse second option clearly has the worse 2-15 supporting cast!” is so tiresome at this point.

funny, that's all what you LeBron guys were doing the last 3 years with Steph/Durant.

all the sudden.

Honestly I’m not even going to make a serious argument against this. This is similar to the type of stuff I have to constantly deal with already where people try to pin the online comments of a vocal minority on the whole of the “Bernie Bros” to distract from what’s important. Whatever people you’ve been arguing with don’t share the same sentiments I do; it’s not one giant singular entity. I would be curious to hear what seasons after 2016 Steph deserved the MVP for though. I certainly haven’t argued that LeBron deserved any regular season MVP awards post-2013.

[Homer38]

OK, we now have a serious update on the MVP race:
https://thespun.com/nba/milwaukee-bucks/espn-insider-has-injury-update-on-giannis-antetokounmpo

Milwaukee’s Giannis Antetokounmpo is getting a precautionary MRI on his left knee, league sources tell ESPN

Things could actually change now. We'll see.

I hope this is not serious.

[Ainosterhaspie]

And this trend of “let’s only compare the second best player on each team and whoever has the worse second option clearly has the worse 2-15 supporting cast!” is so tiresome at this point.

funny, that's all what you LeBron guys were doing the last 3 years with Steph/Durant.

all the sudden.

What are you talking about? Who was saying it was only about Steph/KD? Green/Thompson/Iggy were at the front in any discussion about Warrior depth. Maybe when talking about 6-12 there's a discussion about Warriors not having comparable rosters to other teams, but that's a far cry from looking only at the second option.

[clyde21]

And this trend of “let’s only compare the second best player on each team and whoever has the worse second option clearly has the worse 2-15 supporting cast!” is so tiresome at this point.

funny, that's all what you LeBron guys were doing the last 3 years with Steph/Durant.

all the sudden.

What are you talking about? Who was saying it was only about Steph/KD? Green/Thompson/Iggy were at the front in any discussion about Warrior depth. Maybe when talking about 6-12 there's a discussion about Warriors not having comparable rosters to other teams, but that's a far cry from looking only at the second option.

oh, no, Warriors had Iggy, who barely averaged 5 points a game and could barely play 20 mins a game in the RS!

[clyde21]

And this trend of “let’s only compare the second best player on each team and whoever has the worse second option clearly has the worse 2-15 supporting cast!” is so tiresome at this point.

funny, that's all what you LeBron guys were doing the last 3 years with Steph/Durant.

all the sudden.

Honestly I’m not even going to make a serious argument against this. This is similar to the type of stuff I have to constantly deal with already where people try to pin the online comments of a vocal minority on the whole of the “Bernie Bros” to distract from what’s important. Whatever people you’ve been arguing with don’t share the same sentiments I do; it’s not one giant singular entity. I would be curious to hear what seasons after 2016 Steph deserved the MVP for though. I certainly haven’t argued that LeBron deserved any regular season MVP awards post-2013.

it's just comical seeing the narratives and arguments changing depending on who's being argued for MVP, that's all

[Homer38]

funny, that's all what you LeBron guys were doing the last 3 years with Steph/Durant.

all the sudden.

What are you talking about? Who was saying it was only about Steph/KD? Green/Thompson/Iggy were at the front in any discussion about Warrior depth. Maybe when talking about 6-12 there's a discussion about Warriors not having comparable rosters to other teams, but that's a far cry from looking only at the second option.

oh, no, Warriors had Iggy, who barely averaged 5 points a game and could barely play 20 mins a game in the RS!

Not in 2017.

[clyde21]

What are you talking about? Who was saying it was only about Steph/KD? Green/Thompson/Iggy were at the front in any discussion about Warrior depth. Maybe when talking about 6-12 there's a discussion about Warriors not having comparable rosters to other teams, but that's a far cry from looking only at the second option.

oh, no, Warriors had Iggy, who barely averaged 5 points a game and could barely play 20 mins a game in the RS!

Not in 2017.

i said the last 3 years, not in 2017. I get 2017, don't really get 18 and 19 if we're applying the same logic here.

if Steph/Durant couldn't win MVP according to LeBron stans because they played together, wtf should LeBron win MVP playing with Davis?

[Homer38]

oh, no, Warriors had Iggy, who barely averaged 5 points a game and could barely play 20 mins a game in the RS!

Not in 2017.

i said the last 3 years, not in 2017. I get 2017, don't really get 18 and 19 if we're applying the same logic here.

if Steph/Durant couldn't win MVP according to LeBron stans because they played together, wtf should LeBron win MVP playing with Davis?

I know it's very hard for you to understand, but a roster don't stop at 2 players

And It did not matter since in 2018 and 2019,the Warriors did not have the best record in the NBA or even win 60 games.Curry had missed a lot of game in 2018 too,so he had zero argument for the MVP.

[clyde21]

Not in 2017.

i said the last 3 years, not in 2017. I get 2017, don't really get 18 and 19 if we're applying the same logic here.

if Steph/Durant couldn't win MVP according to LeBron stans because they played together, wtf should LeBron win MVP playing with Davis?

I know it's very hard for you to understand, but a roster don't stop at 2 players

And It did not matter since in 2018 and 2019,the Warriors did not have the best record in the NBA or even win 60 games.Curry had missed a lot of game in 2018 too,so he had zero argument for the MVP.

who said I'm talking about Curry in 18? I was talking about KD

you LeBron stans automatically DQ'd both of them because, and I quote, 'YoU CaN'T WiN MvP iF u pLay WiTh AnotHEr Top5 PLaYeR!"

[Homer38]

i said the last 3 years, not in 2017. I get 2017, don't really get 18 and 19 if we're applying the same logic here.

if Steph/Durant couldn't win MVP according to LeBron stans because they played together, wtf should LeBron win MVP playing with Davis?

I know it's very hard for you to understand, but a roster don't stop at 2 players

And It did not matter since in 2018 and 2019,the Warriors did not have the best record in the NBA or even win 60 games.Curry had missed a lot of game in 2018 too,so he had zero argument for the MVP.

who said I'm talking about Curry in 18? I was talking about KD

you LeBron stans automatically DQ'd both of them because, and I quote, 'YoU CaN'T WiN MvP iF u pLay WiTh AnotHEr Top5 PLaYeR!"

James Harden deserved his MVP in 2018....A roster don't stop at 2 players and the Warriors have mutiples playoffs series without Curry or Durant between 2015 to 2019.....Don't compare his warriors team to the current Lakers team.