Political Roundtable Part XXVIII

[I_Like_Dirt]

I wonder if Bernie runs until June, amass delegates, gets some leverage on the party platform again.

Or does Bernie drop out in April?

If you were Sanders, what would you do?

I'd be absolutely shocked if Bernie doesn't drag this out a fair bit longer and then throw some stones at various institutions in defeat, even it's as simple as being obviously insincere about the whole thing.

If I were Sanders, I'd have dropped out from the start and supported Warren. Making a big push to try to see some of the reforms I claim to so strongly desire actually have a chance of coming to pass in my lifetime. Clearly it doesn't matter what I would do in Sanders' place. Sanders' big problem is that he doesn't actually plan to the degree a lot of his competitors do. Living in the moment can actually be an advantage when it comes to rallying together but to actually achieve lasting success generally requires a plan for that.

[Pointgod]

I literally did all that for Hillary. Seeing Democrats circle the wagons for Biden to dive headfirst into an exact replay of 2016 is absolute madness, and it is an indicator of how fundamentally bad the Democrat leaders are at their jobs.

Like, I think I'm totally within my rights here to be running out of patience with these people. It's sheer incompetence that in 2020 the standard bearer for the entire party is a mush-brained old man with a horrendous voting record that doesn't align with progressives even slightly.

I'm gonna vote for Biden, but the idea that I should blindly follow the wisdom of the Democrats is just laughable at this point. These people don't know what the **** they're doing, and I don't feel remotely comfortable leaving the fate of the country in the hands of these morons.

I think we need to kill the narrative that Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016. Sanders has had 4 years to make his case and expand his base of voters. He lost 2016 fair and square and now 4 years later he’s thus far failed to turnout new voters and young voters. This is not the DNC or Leaders doing anything this is what Democratic voters are prioritizing.

Joe Biden was dead in the water before South Carolina. There was no funding, no DNC fluffing nothing. He won South Carolina, the other candidates didn’t come close and he started to get endorsements. He pretty much showed he was viable through that one primary. Sanders didn’t even make an attempt to get Clyburn’s endorsement. He’s had 4 years to build coalitions with non Bernie Democrats and make a case to more moderate members of his party but he chose not to. Then it’s no surprise when the moderates drop out that voters and party members go to the person that they have some form of relationship with and who doesn’t insult their party.

The last thing I’ll say is that I know that you’ll vote for for the greater good, but even in your words I already see a repeat of 2016. I’m already seeing Bernie supporters post crap like Joe Biden is senile and has dementia. Now I’m sure you can see how calling him a mush brain feeds into this narrative. Joe Biden is inarticulate and his policies are not in line with Bernie’s but if he’s running on a more Progressive policy platform than even Obama. Critique him on policies not some rumours and hit pieces. I can already see the same hit pieces from the left that Hillary faces, super predators, Clinton Foundation and all the other lies. Can’t let the same happen with Bernie or Biden.

It's really not about Bernie for me, though. Yeah I wanted him to win the nomination, but if the Dems nominated some elite Obama tier candidate in the center lane, I wouldn't be complaining about that from a strategy perspective. My issue is that Biden is such an incredibly weak candidate and nearly all of the Democrats are pretending he's not because he's +8 in a random poll vs Trump. this type of thinking is why we wildly overestimated Hillary winning the election and it betrays all that will happen between now and November.

I hear you, but expecting an Obama like candidate is not realistic. Obama was a unicorn and rare example of a politician that just knew how to connect and inspire people. The crop of current candidates were actually pretty good and it shouldn’t come as a shock that the two most popular and well known candidates are left. Just look in comparison to the absolute goobers that Republicans have to choose from? The difference is that Republicans support their candidates regardless of how they feel personally while Hillary would have won if the all the left leaning voters either showed up or united behind her. That’s what it’s about. Bernie can beat Trump, Biden can beat Trump but each path is slightly different but inevitable if Democrats provide a united front.

[Wizardspride]

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[Pointgod]

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Not only has Trump already been exposed to the corona virus so has at least 3 Republican members of Congress lmao. Karma is a bitch.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/collins-gaetz-had-contact-with-trump-before-coronavirus-self-quarantine.html

President Donald Trump had contact with two Republican congressmen before their announcements Monday that they were entering self-quarantine after learning they had been previously exposed to someone since diagnosed with coronavirus.

[Zonkerbl]

Man if Bernie loses by double digits in Michigan that's going to be just brutal

RIP my twitter feed

[Zonkerbl]

It's a little funny to imagine Trump dying from Coronavirus after saying it's a Dem manufactured hoax, I mean he would deserve the hell out of it, but I just can't be happy about a germaphobe dying from precisely the thing he's irrationally terrified of. Ugh, that is just the worst possible way to go, imo.

[dckingsfan]

Man if Bernie loses by double digits in Michigan that's going to be just brutal

RIP my twitter feed

One poll has him up by 41. Yeesh...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_democratic_presidential_primary-6835.html

[Wizardspride]

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[Kanyewest]

Man if Bernie loses by double digits in Michigan that's going to be just brutal

RIP my twitter feed

One poll has him up by 41. Yeesh...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_democratic_presidential_primary-6835.html

Sanders did overcome a huge deficit in 2016. But in reality he needs to win big.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/mi/michigan_democratic_presidential_primary-5224.html

I can see Sanders dropping out sooner than he did against Hillary if he loses big.

[dckingsfan]

Man if Bernie loses by double digits in Michigan that's going to be just brutal

RIP my twitter feed

One poll has him up by 41. Yeesh...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_democratic_presidential_primary-6835.html

Sanders did overcome a huge deficit in 2016. But in reality he needs to win big.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/mi/michigan_democratic_presidential_primary-5224.html
I can see Sanders dropping out sooner than he did against Hillary if he loses big.

I don't see it... you could be correct but it is kind of changing stripes, if you know what I mean.

[Ruzious]

One poll has him up by 41. Yeesh...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_democratic_presidential_primary-6835.html

Sanders did overcome a huge deficit in 2016. But in reality he needs to win big.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/mi/michigan_democratic_presidential_primary-5224.html
I can see Sanders dropping out sooner than he did against Hillary if he loses big.

I don't see it... you could be correct but it is kind of changing stripes, if you know what I mean.

I think we will get to see how he reacts to a big loss tonight. My guess is he doesn't change his stripes.

[Kanyewest]

Sanders did overcome a huge deficit in 2016. But in reality he needs to win big.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/mi/michigan_democratic_presidential_primary-5224.html
I can see Sanders dropping out sooner than he did against Hillary if he loses big.

I don't see it... you could be correct but it is kind of changing stripes, if you know what I mean.

I think we will get to see how he reacts to a big loss tonight. My guess is he doesn't change his stripes.

I don't think he drops out after tonight. I could see him going forward with the debate. But it is going to be increasingly difficult to win mathmatically if he gets blown out in dates he previously won in 2016.

[Pointgod]

One poll has him up by 41. Yeesh...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/mi/michigan_democratic_presidential_primary-6835.html

Sanders did overcome a huge deficit in 2016. But in reality he needs to win big.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/mi/michigan_democratic_presidential_primary-5224.html
I can see Sanders dropping out sooner than he did against Hillary if he loses big.

I don't see it... you could be correct but it is kind of changing stripes, if you know what I mean.

Bernie was statistically eliminated in late April in 2016 but he stuck around for some unknown reason and even tried to get pledged delegates to support him over Clinton. If he gets smoked tomorrow, he should drop out sooner rather than later. Especially with a debate coming up next week.

[Kanyewest]

Sanders did overcome a huge deficit in 2016. But in reality he needs to win big.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/mi/michigan_democratic_presidential_primary-5224.html
I can see Sanders dropping out sooner than he did against Hillary if he loses big.

I don't see it... you could be correct but it is kind of changing stripes, if you know what I mean.

Bernie was statistically eliminated in late April in 2016 but he stuck around for some unknown reason and even tried to get pledged delegates to support him over Clinton. If he gets smoked tomorrow, he should drop out sooner rather than later. Especially with a debate coming up next week.

He said he stuck it out for the elimination of super delegates in the primary process which they compromised and withheld at least until the primary process is over. It remains to be seen what he has to gain from a big loss this time in swing states like Michigan and Wisconsin.

[Wizardspride]

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[DCZards]

Bernie was statistically eliminated in late April in 2016 but he stuck around for some unknown reason and even tried to get pledged delegates to support him over Clinton. If he gets smoked tomorrow, he should drop out sooner rather than later. Especially with a debate coming up next week.

If Bernie gets blown out tonight in Michigan (like I think he will) he should definitely drop out of the race sooner rather than later for the sake of Dem party unity...and to give his supporters time to cool off and get on board with Biden.

Bernie claims to be the candidate of working people...well, I think the working people of Michigan are about to send Bernie the message that they're with Joe this time.

[I_Like_Dirt]

He said he stuck it out for the elimination of super delegates in the primary process which they compromised and withheld at least until the primary process is over. It remains to be seen what he has to gain from a big loss this time in swing states like Michigan and Wisconsin.

I'd be absolutely shocked if Bernie doesn't drag this out a fair bit longer and then throw some stones at various institutions in defeat

Bernie doesn't actually have anything to gain other than trying to massage his ego. I'm not particularly excited at the idea of a Biden nomination myself but Bernie has in part been instrumental in how a lot of this has played out and seems blithely unaware of the consequences of his actions. There are ways he could have actually made a much bigger difference over his decades in politics. Not that he didn't make a big difference, because he did, but he's currently surrounded by loads of people with less name recognition who have made bigger differences and it really shows. The difference in modus operandi is jarring.

[Ruzious]

He said he stuck it out for the elimination of super delegates in the primary process which they compromised and withheld at least until the primary process is over. It remains to be seen what he has to gain from a big loss this time in swing states like Michigan and Wisconsin.

I'd be absolutely shocked if Bernie doesn't drag this out a fair bit longer and then throw some stones at various institutions in defeat

Bernie doesn't actually have anything to gain other than trying to massage his ego. I'm not particularly excited at the idea of a Biden nomination myself but Bernie has in part been instrumental in how a lot of this has played out and seems blithely unaware of the consequences of his actions. There are ways he could have actually made a much bigger difference over his decades in politics. Not that he didn't make a big difference, because he did, but he's currently surrounded by loads of people with less name recognition who have made bigger differences and it really shows. The difference in modus operandi is jarring.

People are starting to notice that he has a rep for not compromising and not getting things done.

[Pointgod]

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Do they have the numbers for Bernie vs Trump?

[I_Like_Dirt]

People are starting to notice that he has a rep for not compromising and not getting things done.

The disconnect between Bernie's message and his inability to understand how minorities or less represented people might not necessarily trust me honestly amuses me a bit. To use African Americans, for example, collectively they've been telling him for a while now that they want certain things. Bernie's response has been to tell them that they don't really want that and that they want what he's telling them they want, they just don't know it yet. And rather than listening to them and trying to come to an understanding, he keeps on keepin' on.

Suddenly, he finds out that there are institutions in place, like superdelegates, that might actually be a rare case of helping African Americans get what they want rather than the reverse, and he holds out when he knows he's lost and takes shots at those institutions, again, claiming (and probably intending) no ill-will but telling them he's really doing what's best for African Americans. Then he makes off-hand comments about his campaign being built on the working class in order to imply that losing a state largely to African American votes wasn't a big deal. These voters aren't stupid. They can read between the lines even if Bernie continues insisting there isn't anything between the lines. And then he seemingly is surprised that they don't trust the old, yelling white man who tells them they want what he wants not what they want and doesn't listen to them. Tone-deaf doesn't even begin to describe it. But hey, it's clearly the voters who are far too easily hurt to get behind Bernie's attempts to save their own lives. That's not at all illogical and insulting at the same time. It's a mystery why they won't support him.