2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

limbo · Post #101 » by **limbo** » Mon Mar 9, 2020 10:05 pm

eminence wrote:I think they're all probably pretty comparable overall, SGA/Gallo/Adams/Schroder is pretty dang good 2-5 in whatever order you'd put them.

Kawhi - Small edge Clippers. Better bench for the Clippers and healthy PG is clearly a better #2, but he hasn't been all that healthy.

Harden - I might say CP3 actually has a bit better cast. I'm extemely low on Westbrook though. If you're higher on him it's probably a small edge Houston.

Jokic - call it even, better bench for the Nuggets, but 4th/5th guys better for the Thunder.

Doncic - similar case to the Mavs vs the Thunder of having a better bench (and KP is a better #2), but the 3-5 is probably better for the Thunder.

Gobert - my fellow Jazz fans won't like this one, but pretty similar to me, Donovan gets a ton of love as a young guy who can score, but as of today he's a great starter/very low end star. I'd probably overall give a small edge to the Jazz.

Those guys are good, but only Adams and Gallo were proven solid impact players before this season started.

SGA wasn't bad as a rookie but not really a large difference maker in the grand scheme of things (even though he played decently in the Playoffs for the Clippers) and Schroeder, while always having the skillset to carry a larger role for teams offensively, perennially struggled being an effective PG and an efficient scorer.

You insert CP3 in that dynamic, and suddenly this trio of guys are the best backcourt in the league and statistically the best 3-man unit in the NBA...

Also, when we talk about depth, let's not forget minutes played... The Thunder already have relatively poor depth compared to other Western Conference Playoff teams, but when you realize that:

Ferguson played 1170 minutes
Bazely played 909 minutes
Diallo played 700 minutes

These dudes are some of the worst offensive players in the league... and they're getting 6-9 level minutes on a Playoff squad.

As **** as Conley has been this year, has he been as bad as Ferguson? Both played the 6th most minutes for their team. Have Clarkson and Niang been worse than Bazely and Diallo?

I know for Dallas, the 6-10 range of most minutes played on our team are guys like Curry, Wright, Powell, Brunson... that's like not even remotely comparable to Ferguson, Noel, Bazely, Diallo (even though Noel has been awesome for the Thunder defensively). I'm sure it's the same with the Clippers and Nuggets... Not sure about Houston, though, there was a lot of turnover there.

Post #102 » by **bondom34** » Mon Mar 9, 2020 10:12 pm

I'm at the point where I think CP3 might have a good case over Harden. Harden's been legitimately poor for a long stretch now and it's not showing in season long APM but their lineups over 2 months have sunk a good bit.

The depth of Dallas/LAC is really the thing that makes those teams IMO, but I kind of agree with ardee that CP3 may have a case, though not sure he's top 5. I'd still have Giannis, Lebron, Kawhi, Jokic, Doncic, Lillard ahead at least. I'd consider Tatum/Butler/Simmons/Middleton. I've been really down on Gobert's season and even though the APM numbers disagree Harden a bit too now, he just can't shoot and there's no counter. Could still turn with 20ish left though.

GSP · Post #103 » by **GSP** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:57 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
70sFan wrote:Although Paul is amazing this season, I think that people underrate OKC players in general. Adams is excellent starting center and he has his best season so far. Shai plays extremely well on both ends of the court, Dennis has ATG 6th man season and Noel finally learnt how to play basketball. It's not a team full of scrubs carried by Paul, it's good and well built roster with a lot of underrated players.

Very much so. I knew they would be a playoff team come the off season. The roster has some solid players.

I think most wouldve had them in the playoffs if u could guarantee health for Cp3/Gallo

Cp3 the past 3 seasons averaged 59 games played a season. Hes already at 63
Gallo post Acl injury has averaged 53 games played a season and already at 55

Just tough to bank on either staying healthy. Thats why their season over/under was 32.5 wins

Dr Spaceman · Post #104 » by **Dr Spaceman** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:52 pm

What’s the case for Paul over Lowry?

Post #105 » by **bondom34** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:07 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:What’s the case for Paul over Lowry?

Might be just having Siakam, but I might argue him over Paul anyway, knew I forgot someone.

Edit: Yeah looking at it I think Siakam is the guy, not Lowry. But he'd be in there. I think Paul is closer to the 10-15 range than top 5.

NinjaSheppard · Post #106 » by **NinjaSheppard** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:11 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:What’s the case for Paul over Lowry?

There are guys I would put over Chris Paul if they played double digit fewer games than CP3. Kyle Lowry is definitely not one of them.

eminence · Post #107 » by **eminence** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:19 pm

Siakam probably deserved a spot in my last tier, dude's been great this season.

Dr Spaceman · Post #108 » by **Dr Spaceman** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:29 pm

NinjaSheppard wrote:
Dr Spaceman wrote:What’s the case for Paul over Lowry?

There are guys I would put over Chris Paul if they played double digit fewer games than CP3. Kyle Lowry is definitely not one of them.

Durability is a good argument for Paul. Still, Lowry is on pace to play about 68-70 games which isn’t a big deal to me. Lowry is the better defender, imo Chris isn’t quite the same as he was in Houston. By the end of the season I could see the missed games not mastering to me, I think it’s very close between the two.

Dr Spaceman · Post #109 » by **Dr Spaceman** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:04 pm

Also, despite the difference in missed games, Paul has played 2000 minutes this season compared to Lowry’s 1900. It’s basically a wash between the two.

NinjaSheppard · Post #110 » by **NinjaSheppard** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:31 pm

So with the season likely getting axed soon shall we move on to doing the POTY poll?

Post #111 » by **bondom34** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:54 pm

NinjaSheppard wrote:So with the season likely getting axed soon shall we move on to doing the POTY poll?

When ESPN declares Lebron MVP and notes the Bucks didn't make the finals so Giannis is leaving for LA >>>

HeartBreakKid · Post #112 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:00 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:What’s the case for Paul over Lowry?

More efficient scorer. More efficient passer. His impact is more easily noticeably because his team is worse than Lowry's and in a more stronger conference. He will probably be better in the playoffs based on what we've seen in the past. Played more games.

Bad Gatorade · Post #113 » by **Bad Gatorade** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:03 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:
NinjaSheppard wrote:
Dr Spaceman wrote:What’s the case for Paul over Lowry?

There are guys I would put over Chris Paul if they played double digit fewer games than CP3. Kyle Lowry is definitely not one of them.

Durability is a good argument for Paul. Still, Lowry is on pace to play about 68-70 games which isn’t a big deal to me. Lowry is the better defender, imo Chris isn’t quite the same as he was in Houston. By the end of the season I could see the missed games not mastering to me, I think it’s very close between the two.

Never thought I'd ever read that on these boards :lol:

Post #114 » by **bondom34** » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:01 am

I hate to say it but feels a lot like we almost should just vote. Thinking more and more this season is done.

HeartBreakKid · Post #115 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:07 am

bondom34 wrote:I hate to say it but feels a lot like we almost should just vote. Thinking more and more this season is done.

We probably will after it is officially canceled.

Post #116 » by **bondom34** » Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:24 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I hate to say it but feels a lot like we almost should just vote. Thinking more and more this season is done.

We probably will after it is officially canceled.

Yeah didn't know if it was worth doing early while memory is fresh or not. But guess it could still come back.

Post #117 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:24 pm

bondom34 wrote:I hate to say it but feels a lot like we almost should just vote. Thinking more and more this season is done.

If people are looking for a basketball analysis fix, I think it would be good to do this with an acknowledgement that it will get usurped by a later POY vote should a playoff tournament occurs.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Post #118 » by **bondom34** » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:51 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I hate to say it but feels a lot like we almost should just vote. Thinking more and more this season is done.

If people are looking for a basketball analysis fix, I think it would be good to do this with an acknowledgement that it will get usurped by a later POY vote should a playoff tournament occurs.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Actually kind of was thinking we'd do it with that acknowledgement for now. It would at least give me a fix of talking actual basketball for a change.

HeartBreakKid · Post #119 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:53 am

We could just talk about the season here already. Couldn't hurt.

Actual voting? I don't think it's necessary - last time we probably started around July to actually vote. I think it's probably a good thing that our memories aren't too fresh.

Post #120 » by **bondom34** » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:59 am

Mainly was mentioning because the site I write for had a fake "ballot" go out for writers and it made me finally think of them all. Had a few that were probably somewhat different. Also these were prompted by ballots we were sent (could do write ins) so some might be biased a little by that.

MVP (POY at this point I guess):

1. Giannis
2. Lebron
3. Jokic
4. Harden
5. Kawhi

Guessing the only really kind of unpopular ones might be Jokic at 3 and Kawhi 5. Kawhi's load management dropped him some, but he's been fantastic on both ends of the court and the Clippers a 2 seed. Jokic just to me has been the best big in the NBA even accounting the slower start, and put him over Harden after Harden's shot fell off in 2020.

6MOY:

1. Harrell
2. Seth Curry (Dallas had a few guys but Seth has been really good off the bench and went with him)
3. Rose
4. Schroder
Didn't have a 5 but could be talked into a few guys.

Curry's probably the unpopular one, but leading the Mavs bench in scoring and 45% 3 point shooting figured I'd give the nod there.

MIP:

1. Doncic
2. Tatum
3. SGA
4. Ingram
5. Graham

I valued the improvement from good to great more than bad/mediocre to good. Also Graham fell off a bit after a hot start so he dropped some.

ROY:

1. Morant
2. Williamson
3. Herro
4. Thybulle
5. Clarke

Top 2 was easy, and I liked Herro as the Miami rookie. Thybulle and Clarke were a tossup but went Thybulle since Clarke's playing with another guy in the race and honestly I just like Thybulle. They were really close.

DPOY:

1. Giannis
2. Embiid
3. Kawhi
4. Tatum
5. Lopez

Think I might have been too high on Kawhi here but this is what I submitted. Second thought might flip him and Tatum. Lopez at 5 was almost a nod to his improvement but he's been legit really good. Gobert I struggled with but Utah being 12th in defense and like 20th since 1/1 plus seeing his effort seem to dip I left him off.

COY:

1. Nurse
2. Bud
3. Vogel
4. Spo
5. McMillan

Honestly a lot of good candidates, not much to say here. If people disagree on this I wouldn't argue any of it really, just a lot of coaches who I think have done well. Stevens belongs up there too. Jenkins might as well. Probably others.

EOY:

1. Winger (LAC)
2. Griffin
3. Presti
4. Riley
5. Ujiri

1-3 felt pretty easy. Riley adding Butler and dumping money with no flexibility was really impressive. Ujiri is more a vote of confidence that I've liked some stuff around the edges and not panicking after Kawhi left. Lowry and Siakam extensions look good to me.

Dunno, could probably be talked into moving some stuff around.