Cameron Reddish

[Ruzious]

Just going by his stats, his shooting and scoring has improved, but there's not much else there. Recently, I watched him have a huge scoring game against Washington, but he had like 1 rebound, 1 assist, and 7 to's.

[King Ken]

Just going by his stats, his shooting and scoring has improved, but there's not much else there. Recently, I watched him have a huge scoring game against Washington, but he had like 1 rebound, 1 assist, and 7 to's.

Rebounding is a fluid stat, if he is in the vicinity, he generally does a decent job of rebounding. I would like to him box out as well as not miss a read which tends to bite him in the ass once in every 4 games.

Passing in an area where we saw legit improvement from Nov to Dec but has since decreased. Some could be related to us simply missing open looks that he created but more than anything, he's been such a bucket over the last three months that our focus is scoring if it's available.

Defensively, he's been a menace all year. Good defender for anyone, excellent defender for a rookie. Still has a ways to go but his talent level on the defensive end and ability to cover ground defensively is exceptional.

He has generally improved a lot each month in most areas to me. Especially decision making, consistency on both ends, awareness and BBIQ. While I still want to see a lot of improvement to his feel for the game, its night and day better compared to the beginning of the year.

He literally had the worst WAR in the NBA in Dec 1st with a -2.8. He's currently at -.1. Which is 8th for qualified rookies and 4th for rookies who play high end mins. Only rookies who play high end min 1,450 and above with higher WARs are
Nunn
Morant
And Coby White.

All of these four rookies are in good company. Cam is one of the most improved players in the NBA but by far the most improved rookie.

[clyde21]

Just going by his stats, his shooting and scoring has improved, but there's not much else there. Recently, I watched him have a huge scoring game against Washington, but he had like 1 rebound, 1 assist, and 7 to's.

his efficiency was a huge negative at the beginning of the year, he's improved that dramatically so far, on top of his already pretty good D...his baseline is a legit 3+D player at this point as long as his shooting doesn't regress, anything on top in terms of rebounding, shot creation and playmaking is icing on the cake IMO

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Regress, son? The last 5 games Reddish is shooting 57% from three. 5/7, 3/8, 6/9... He's been absolute fire and you out here talking statistical regression like you have thick 80s glasses and a pocket protector. The man can not miss, and you bringing advanced mathematical theorems to the table. King Ken, the messiah, saw the makes that were behind all those misses and saw the greatness in Cam Reddish. There are no more misses now, only makes. Don't talk to me about no regressions, man.

The most improved player in the league, except he was always great, King Ken knew that.

Where's Bol Bol in this league, I'm still waiting on that.

[Ruzious]

Regress, son? The last 5 games Reddish is shooting 57% from three. 5/7, 3/8, 6/9... He's been absolute fire and you out here talking statistical regression like you have thick 80s glasses and a pocket protector. The man can not miss, and you bringing advanced mathematical theorems to the table. King Ken, the messiah, saw the makes that were behind all those misses and saw the greatness in Cam Reddish. There are no more misses now, only makes. Don't talk to me about no regressions, man.

The most improved player in the league, except he was always great, King Ken knew that.

Where's Bol Bol in this league, I'm still waiting on that.

I laughed - even if it didn't all make sense - it was like poetry. Regress son rhymes with regression. You noetry.

[King Ken]

Regress, son? The last 5 games Reddish is shooting 57% from three. 5/7, 3/8, 6/9... He's been absolute fire and you out here talking statistical regression like you have thick 80s glasses and a pocket protector. The man can not miss, and you bringing advanced mathematical theorems to the table. King Ken, the messiah, saw the makes that were behind all those misses and saw the greatness in Cam Reddish. There are no more misses now, only makes. Don't talk to me about no regressions, man.

The most improved player in the league, except he was always great, King Ken knew that.

Where's Bol Bol in this league, I'm still waiting on that.

I didn't say he was always great, I even went back and read every post from this thread last night. I never said that. I said numerous times that he wasn't polished out of HS or college and any team he goes to has to work on that as a team but as I said in this post. The signs were always there. His shot creation and shot versatility has always been special before he ever joined the Hawks much less the Blue Devils.

Which he is currently on the path of doing I should add.

Sure he is. And I’m certain you have universal agreement on that at this point because of everything he’s shown on the court. He’s done nothing but raise his stock since the draft.

You’re not going to pay the long game here obviously. Your call.

I am clearly playing the long game as I did with Trae, John, Kevin, De'Andre, and many others. I made the mistake of saying Luka's season last year couldn't be maintained long term to being a great player. I looked like an idiot calling him Tyreke Doncic and I have to own up that I didn't follow my eyes which said, with more experience, he could be the best in the league one day.

Sometimes you just gotta trust your eyes. **** them stats. So what Luka impact dipped in the 2nd half, it was a less than ideal situation for him. For Cam, if you watched all of our games, you would see a lot of improvement even if you see the same 2-10 results. To you, he was ass. To me, I noticed how he got to any spot, no one could contain him, he was open on his shots, he didn't get stripped in traffic like usual, he is starting to see the game, etc. But you just saw the 2-10 and assumed the worst. That's why I **** with you guys in this thread. You guys don't even understand the game all that well and that's fine, but I wish you would stop making these insane assertions like "historically bad rookie" and "bust" or "should have drafted XnX". Pure nonsense. I just think you should be more open-minded. If you watched the games, you would notice, he can do things a lot of other guys can't even on his misses.

When people say things like a bust, historically bad rookie, scrub, that's offensive to me. It's like you aren't even watching the games. We got a lot of scrubs, believe me, us Hawk fans know what scrubs are.

If you read my posts, you would have seen this coming a mile away:

Your apology should be as loud as the disrespect

]

You want people to apologize because of 1 game? So we just pretend that the rest of the season didn’t even happen?

You need to be playing the long game here if you ever want to get any bragging rights back here. And remember, you didn’t just say he’d be a good player, you predicted the steal of the draft and a future star

Which he is currently on the path of doing that I should add. Patience is the key to success and lacking it only leads to misery.

I told ya'll to be patient with Trae Young, he is improving daily even if it doesn't look like he is by the statistics and the metrics at that time but you'll tell me he was the worst player in the NBA bar none. Jimmer 2.0. A worse Trey Burke. That's what ya'll told me. I told ya'll he can be one of the best offensive players ever. Ya'll said he couldn't shoot. You'll say a lot of things... I'll give you credit with the little hate factory you guys have going, it's cute. But Cam is improving daily. He is miles better than he was in the preseason and to start the season. You don't just end up here by luck. Cam worked his ass off and watches a ton of tape. He is constantly working with the coaches and with the trainers. He is in the gym as much as anyone and confirmed, more than anyone and really wants to be great but what do I know, you called him a historically bad rookie right? Historically huh?

You guys don't watch much basketball, you just read a **** stat sheet. If you watched the games, you would see the constant improvement Reddish is making. A game like he had yesterday wasn't luck, it was **** development. He has been getting closer and closer to this point. Before the wrist injury, he was showing signs that this was coming, it's just a matter of time. As I said, you guys who don't even watch every minute of our games just know better than everyone else who does.

The guy is out here defending his ass off. The only thing he lacks on that end is core and raw strength which will come in time. Other than that, he is a **** hound. His movements are a lot like DeAaron Fox and his length feels like you being defended by an Octopus but this is a historically bad rookie, right? You guys suck at this ****. That's where the problem is. If you were even halfway accurate, I wouldn't even mind if you were on the negative end. It's not like he is making a lot of shots so I understand but when I hear, historically bad rookie, shouldn't have been drafted in the lottery, bust, scrub, awful, I know you just don't watch him play or you simply lack Basketball IQ to watch and comprehend the game.

You really are saying an extremely talented 6'9 wing who moves like a 6'3 guard is a bust? Really? I've said this before, he should have been a top 5 pick. I can understand Hunter over him but no one else and that's because the value of two-way wings who can defend 2-4 consistently is at a premium. Cam should end up with the rare ability to defend 1-4, not consistently but he shows flashes of it and is already very good defending 1-3. When the DRAYMOND is release, don't be surprised when Cam is at the top of the list for wings.

As I said, there are a lot of terrible takes on here like it was for Trae. Patience is really not valued on this site. That much is clear.

I posted this Thu Dec 5, 2019 5:23 pm on this site. #527

Now that he is producing, where is fishchella, the hater, stillwater, crows2, etc.? I find it funny that D4L and Clyde were team Reddish to a degree till he actually ended up in the NBA. Clyde even refused to say Cam could be anything less than a superstar, now he's like maybe 3+D, okay, 3+D, maybe more, etc. It's like you lose all **** sense because he's no longer a prospect. Honestly, I was surprised by doordoor123 again. While he did change narratives on Reddish as a pro, as a prospect, he was making sense the most or at least trying too.

A lot of people owe Reddish an apology. ****, some owe me one as well. prime1time was persistence on Reddish qualities, he knew he was special but like many on here, when that said player goes to a team that's not their team, they lose interest. Their vision was for them to be on their team.

Cam is getting closer to my benchmarks I've set and to be honest about it, it wasn't an easy road but I always knew he was capable. Guys who move like Tracy McGrady with that body don't come around but once every 20 years. As I said even when he was struggling, he should have been a top 5 pick in this draft.

[clyde21]

what are you talking about? I was never against Reddish, had him ranked in the lotto, and thought he had a pretty clean path to be a 3+D player in the NBA, which is exaclty what he's showing right now

just cuz I thought he had serious flaws that will keep him from being a star doesn't mean I was against Reddish lol

[King Ken]

what are you talking about? I was never against Reddish, had him ranked in the lotto, and thought he had a pretty clean path to be a 3+D player in the NBA, which is exaclty what he's showing right now

just cuz I thought he had serious flaws that will keep him from being a star doesn't mean I was against Reddish lol

Let's look and see:

Early Clyde:

what's the difference between MVP and most important player.

Cam is two things away from being a legit elite prospect: a better handle and a more consistent shot. obviously easier said than done but the baseline talent is there in spades

other than Jones, he's been Duke's most impressive defender IMO.

Hawks Clyde:

more games where he's outscored his FGA 14 points on 13 shots (no FTA)...

16 on only 11 FGA (8 FTA only 5 makes). EFG% going up and TS% would be higher if not for some missed freebies. He's pretty good at those. I'm not at all sure those with faith that he's already become a reasonable scorer already have completely misplaced it.

If he's a plus defender and is scoring reasonably definitely seems like he has a place in the league even as an underdeveloped rookie.

he's always had a path to become at least a decent 3+D guy, which is why i still had him lotto range despite the **** year at Duke, size, athleticism, defense and volume shooting was always there.

anything more than a 3+D guy at this point should be considered icing on the cake by Atlanta.

Early Clyde saw superstar talent and said as such in a post where you said when he looks good, he's the 2nd best prospect in this class but you wouldn't take him in the lottery which was said before the draft you.

Since then, you went if he can be 3/D, then he overachieved. Now you are like, he's gonna be a 3/D but maybe there is more. It's like you went from knowing you saw something special and trying to change your mind due to consistency. This is college and he's a freshman at 19. These guys especially two-way wings grow like gangbusters. I could have told you how this was going to go. Stick with your first instincts. Only run when the flashes ARE GONE.

Here's your quote just in case you wanted to see it:

I'm not sure I've heard more excuses for a college freshman - mostl because he had to "overcome" being a teammate of 2 of the best players in college basketball. A smart player would have used that to his advantage at least as far as being an efficient player. He didn't. He also didn't rebound - which is disapointing for a player with his combo of his size and athleticism.

Seriously this. He had to adjust to playing with RJ and Zion. First the offense rarely ran through Zion, the majority of his offense came through things he created himself. Cam's situation was setup perfectly for him, he was going to get the worst perimeter defender on him all game, teams were going to help off of him to help stop RJ and Zion. Also when Zion went down, Cam had the opportunity to step up with a bigger role, he ended up having his worst stretch of the season (tournament play he ended up having an even worse one).

i think the excuses exist because when Cam played well he looked SO good...in that if he was more consistent (a lot more) he'd have a real case at being the 2nd best player in this draft...so I think people want to believe he can be that good in a different situation possibly.

that said, i think it's almost impossible at this point to make a case for him as a lotto pick right now.

[clyde21]

okay? both those posts seem to be pretty on point and don't contradict each other...i've always maintained that Cam's biggest obstacles are his balance/core issues, handling and consistency/motor...those things still exist with the Hawks and existed as a prospect...which is why I said what I said in both of those posts lol...

and yes, i said being a 3+D is his baseline, he can be more if he improves on the aforementioned weaknesses (which I said in my original post that it's easier said than done)...pretty simple stuff.

[King Ken]

okay? both those posts seem to be pretty on point and don't contradict each other...i've always maintained that Cam's biggest obstacles are his balance/core issues, handling and consistency/motor...those things still exist with the Hawks and existed as a prospect...which is why I said what I said in both of those posts lol...

and yes, i said being a 3+D is his baseline, he can be more if he improves on the aforementioned weaknesses (which I said in my original post that it's easier said than done)...pretty simple stuff.

No, simply no. From what you stated before:

Cam is two things away from being a legit elite prospect: a better handle and a more consistent shot. obviously easier said than done but the baseline talent is there in spades

I actually agree with and it's why at this moment, over the last three months, he's been the best rookie in basketball with Ja and Zion as he has VASTLY improved in these two areas. I will agree with that. Now, this nonsense you wrote above. That's garbage!

Cam's biggest obstacles are his balance/core issues, handling and consistency/motor...those things still exist with the Hawks and existed as a prospect...

Cam has the excellent body control and balance for his size. For his core issues, it was due to his core injury. It took some time but he had to trust his body again considering this was his 2nd core injury within the last three years.

His ball-handling is loose but his overall handles are very good especially for his size. Needs to improve in terms of tighten it up but for a man of his size, he handles the ball like a 6'4 guard. Saying ball-handling is an issue is a brain dead statement in my opinion of someone who's watched every Reddish game twice if not three times in the last two years much less his HS/AAU/Team USA stuff.

Cam's motor questions are the biggest bull I've heard for Reddish ever! He plays with the BEST defensive motor on the squad. No one is close, not even Treveon Graham. He covers ground like Deion Sanders. His damn length and lateral ability feel like your being guarded by a damn Octopus and this is the guy you are questioning about his motor? Get outta here!

If you want to talk about his offensive pace which is low-mid, (low energy, mid-tempo) I can see it to a degree but that's has nothing to do with his motor. It's just his style of play. Too much nonsense on this board, it's frustrating to read.

[clyde21]

it's like groundhog day I swear dog

[Jamaaliver]

Read on Twitter

[kg01]

it's like groundhog day I swear dog

Let's just all agree that #CodeReddish is probably not the worst rookie in the history of professional sport.

That's basically what most RgM'ers were saying after like 6 games.

[No-Man]

Well I mean he was that for 2 months

[clyde21]

Well I mean he was that for 2 months

good thing these things aren't decided after 2 months then huh

[No-Man]

Well there are plenty of statistical analysis showing that the real player is the one from the whole season, not the one from the 1st or 2nd half, Pelton put out pieces on that a couple years ago

[King Ken]

Well there are plenty of statistical analysis showing that the real player is the one from the whole season, not the one from the 1st or 2nd half, Pelton put out pieces on that a couple years ago

Or you can just watch the games and see the improvement for yourself. This is why we were so high on Trae Young last year when his overall rookie numbers weren't that good. This year, he's top 15 overall by almost everyone. If he just stay the overall course, he wouldn't be a top 50 player this year, maybe not top 100.

Watch the games. I don't know how many times I got to say it.

[King Ken]

Well I mean he was that for 2 months

Statistically yes. Watching the games, he always flashed tremendous talent even if the production was in the opposite direction.

[No-Man]

I have watched plenty of Reddish thank you very much, I was not even low on the guy, had him around where he went, 10-14th kinda, the egregious mistake the Hawks made was trading up for Hunter, trading up for Fernando, selling 2nd round picks

I was always fine with Cam's selection

That doesn't mean either that he is anywhere close to a future star, he is going to be good, just not that

[King Ken]

I have watched plenty of Reddish thank you very much, I was not even low on the guy, had him around where he went, 10-14th kinda, the egregious mistake the Hawks made was trading up for Hunter, trading up for Fernando, selling 2nd round picks

I was always fine with Cam's selection

That doesn't mean either that he is anywhere close to a future star, he is going to be good, just not that

You are improving. Like with Trae haters last year, I am hearing improvement. Most Trae haters at this point last year was he will be good, not an all star ever much less best offensive player like you think potential.

Ya'll will come around. I see improvement. That's means you aren't dumb at least.


As far as the Hawks draft. I loved it and even predicted that this is what needed to happen. Overall, I was happy with the results outside of the selling of the 2nd rounders but ownership loves it especially if we don't truly need it.

Hunter has been decent for us even if the production is lacking. Its difficult for two way wings and Hunter is learning. Overall, happy to have him and didn't care about the over pay.

Bruno is young with a lot of potential. He likely won't be NBA ready for awhile but I liked the value and the pick in general