John Collins: I Definitely Feel Like I'm In Max Contract Contention

Post #1 » by **RealGM Wiretap** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:38 pm

The Atlanta Hawks have reservations about signing John Collins to a significant long-term contract extension this offseason, according to sources around the league. Teams inquired about the availability of Collins at the deadline due to that perceived hesitation.

Collins' range likely starts at the four-year, $77 million extension signed by Domantas Sabonis with the Indiana Pacers before the start of the season.

Collins, for his part, believes he's proved his value.

“I mean, I feel like I am a priority to the Hawks in terms of my value in the young core,” Collins said. “I feel like that’s no question. Priority in terms of — I don’t know. I definitely feel like I am a priority to them. For a lot of money? I just don’t know personally. I feel like it’s been a unique situation, but I feel like my play has garnered a bigger contract. This is when you want to start comparing, but it’s just a matter of if they’re going to reciprocate the respect back.

“I definitely feel like I am in max contract contention. If I finish this season averaging 20 and 10, the other guys who are averaging 20 and 10 are max-caliber guys. I’m in that conversation and feel like I am worthy of being extended as such. That’s for the Hawks to decide and figure it out. If you want to look at numbers and flat-out play, I definitely feel like I’ve earned it. But the team situation, future cap and all that, now you have a contract negotiation.”

The Hawks could wait until Collins becomes a restricted free agent in 2021.

“I wouldn’t take it personal, but my antennas would be up, for sure,” Collins said. “If I can leave it at that. My antennas would be up.”

Via Chris Kirschner/The Athletic

LAKESHOW · Post #2 » by **LAKESHOW** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:09 pm

Sorry bruh, the market is set and the system is rigged. KD, AD, Lebron, Kawhi etc. Those are MAX guys. Everyone else, pick up the leftovers.

birdlives_ma · Post #3 » by **birdlives_ma** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:13 pm

Oh hell no. I love the dude, don’t get me wrong, but way too many question marks. Defense for one. Now, he’s taken a big step this year, especially as a help defender, but I wanna see it for a full year. Speaking of a full year, maybe play one. The last 2 years him being unavailable has basically tanked our season before it got out the gate. Last year was an injury, which... fine. Nothing you can do. But that 25 game ban this year... man, I don’t know. That screwed us, and was squarely on him. He’s got near-max talent, but I need to see that he’s up for the responsibility that comes with that.

Haddaway · Post #4 » by **Haddaway** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:44 pm

birdlives_ma wrote:Oh hell no. I love the dude, don’t get me wrong, but way too many question marks. Defense for one. Now, he’s taken a big step this year, especially as a help defender, but I wanna see it for a full year. Speaking of a full year, maybe play one. The last 2 years him being unavailable has basically tanked our season before it got out the gate. Last year was an injury, which... fine. Nothing you can do. But that 25 game ban this year... man, I don’t know. That screwed us, and was squarely on him. He’s got near-max talent, but I need to see that he’s up for the responsibility that comes with that.

You realize that if he played those 25 games, and say he played great during those games and you guys went 15-10 during that span, then your record would be 28-38 and 2 games out of the 8th spot and 2.5 games back of the 7th spot? So realistically, the Hawks would be a somewhere between a 7-9th seed, but firmly in the 9th because the Wizards would be 3.5 games back at the 10th spot.

So instead of being the 14th/15th seed battling for the second worst record in the league, having the second best chance at the #1 pick, you'd be battling to be the playoff team that are 6 games under .500 and praying someone good falls to you in the middle of the draft after this season.

Seems to me that he actually saved you guys in many ways from having a crap pick. (Obviously not his intention, but it's what happened, so I wouldn't be so mad at him.)

24istheLAW · Post #5 » by **24istheLAW** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:56 pm

birdlives_ma wrote:Oh hell no. I love the dude, don’t get me wrong, but way too many question marks. Defense for one. Now, he’s taken a big step this year, especially as a help defender, but I wanna see it for a full year. Speaking of a full year, maybe play one. The last 2 years him being unavailable has basically tanked our season before it got out the gate. Last year was an injury, which... fine. Nothing you can do. But that 25 game ban this year... man, I don’t know. That screwed us, and was squarely on him. He’s got near-max talent, but I need to see that he’s up for the responsibility that comes with that.

Isn't the 25-game absence evidence of his importance to the Hawks if anything?

tomze · Post #6 » by **tomze** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:04 pm

Haddaway wrote:
birdlives_ma wrote:Oh hell no. I love the dude, don’t get me wrong, but way too many question marks. Defense for one. Now, he’s taken a big step this year, especially as a help defender, but I wanna see it for a full year. Speaking of a full year, maybe play one. The last 2 years him being unavailable has basically tanked our season before it got out the gate. Last year was an injury, which... fine. Nothing you can do. But that 25 game ban this year... man, I don’t know. That screwed us, and was squarely on him. He’s got near-max talent, but I need to see that he’s up for the responsibility that comes with that.

You realize that if he played those 25 games, and say he played great during those games and you guys went 15-10 during that span, then your record would be 28-38 and 2 games out of the 8th spot and 2.5 games back of the 7th spot? So realistically, the Hawks would be a somewhere between a 7-9th seed, but firmly in the 9th because the Wizards would be 3.5 games back at the 10th spot.

So instead of being the 14th/15th seed battling for the second worst record in the league, having the second best chance at the #1 pick, you'd be battling to be the playoff team that are 6 games under .500 and praying someone good falls to you in the middle of the draft after this season.

Seems to me that he actually saved you guys in many ways from having a crap pick. (Obviously not his intention, but it's what happened, so I wouldn't be so mad at him.)

Absolutely, I think a lot of people (including the Hawks fanbase) would say that they have enough talent from the past few years of drafting. It's about putting the pieces you have together. If that means fighting for the 8th seed, by all means, just look at the Grizzlies and where they're at in they're rebuild. Nobody expected much out of them at the beginning of the season, but do you think any Grizzlies fan is upset over the fact that they're team is showing promise and is going in the right direction?

Granted, teams are always looking to add talent. The Nuggets have been drafting superb talent in the middle of the draft for years. After years of rebuilding, there comes a time where you can't put all your focus on next season, and I think the Hawk's are ready to take that leap with the pieces they have. Playoff experience, or at least knowing what fighting for the playoffs is like, is valuable for growth.

birdlives_ma · Post #7 » by **birdlives_ma** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:20 pm

24istheLAW wrote:
Isn't the 25-game absence evidence of his importance to the Hawks if anything?

Absolutely, but that’s kind of my point. The team’s built in a way where he’s essential, something I’m sure they made clear to him. And he did something irresponsible that totally tanked our season. And no, we wouldn’t be like the class of the East or anything, but we’d be fighting for a playoff spot, which would be way more valuable to this team than a shot at a high pick in this draft. Normally, I might go for the pick, but THIS draft, no way. Mocks after pick 4 are a mess, and we do a good job getting guys outside the lotto anyway (JC and Huerter were both taken at #19).

TheSpruceLuce · Post #8 » by **TheSpruceLuce** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:39 pm

[gfycat][/gfycat]

Keep him long term and reap the benefits of his somewhat tainted 2 seasons creating advantageous negotiating points for the front office. Feels like he's in the rare spot where after an extension he still will want to prove his value.

Hans1984 · Post #9 » by **Hans1984** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:45 pm

I don't think so.

arasu · Post #10 » by **arasu** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:58 pm

Haddaway wrote:
birdlives_ma wrote:Oh hell no. I love the dude, don’t get me wrong, but way too many question marks. Defense for one. Now, he’s taken a big step this year, especially as a help defender, but I wanna see it for a full year. Speaking of a full year, maybe play one. The last 2 years him being unavailable has basically tanked our season before it got out the gate. Last year was an injury, which... fine. Nothing you can do. But that 25 game ban this year... man, I don’t know. That screwed us, and was squarely on him. He’s got near-max talent, but I need to see that he’s up for the responsibility that comes with that.

You realize that if he played those 25 games, and say he played great during those games and you guys went 15-10 during that span, then your record would be 28-38 and 2 games out of the 8th spot and 2.5 games back of the 7th spot? So realistically, the Hawks would be a somewhere between a 7-9th seed, but firmly in the 9th because the Wizards would be 3.5 games back at the 10th spot.

So instead of being the 14th/15th seed battling for the second worst record in the league, having the second best chance at the #1 pick, you'd be battling to be the playoff team that are 6 games under .500 and praying someone good falls to you in the middle of the draft after this season.

Seems to me that he actually saved you guys in many ways from having a crap pick. (Obviously not his intention, but it's what happened, so I wouldn't be so mad at him.)

This year's draft is supposed to be one of the worst. Frequently the drafts that have low expectations turn out to have some of the worst top picks, but some good ones show up further down. The 2013 draft is a good example. The top of the draft mostly underperformed (Bennett, Zeller, Len, Noel, McLemore), but looking back, it is actually a great draft class, mostly because of players drafted in the middle or lower 1st round, like Giannis, Gobert, Adams, and Schröder. And this year's draft has similarly low pre-draft expectations, but several players that are expected to be picked lower have intriguing upside. In other words, the Hawks are doing themselves no favors by perpetuating the losing mentality. This doesn't look like a good year for tanking.

Ayt · Post #11 » by **Ayt** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:06 pm

He's easily a max player.

Ayt · Post #12 » by **Ayt** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:10 pm

LAKESHOW wrote:Sorry bruh, the market is set and the system is rigged. KD, AD, Lebron, Kawhi etc. Those are MAX guys. Everyone else, pick up the leftovers.

The complete opposite is true. The current system massively benefits players who aren't KD, AD, LeBron, Kawhi etc. If there was no limit on maximum salaries, guys like LeBron and Giannis would have their salaries doubled at the very least.

Temuhjan · Post #13 » by **Temuhjan** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:30 pm

24istheLAW wrote:Isn't the 25-game absence evidence of his importance to the Hawks if anything?

It proves the team has an empty cupboard. Let the Process begin!

TheSpruceLuce · Post #14 » by **TheSpruceLuce** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:30 pm

Ayt wrote:
LAKESHOW wrote:Sorry bruh, the market is set and the system is rigged. KD, AD, Lebron, Kawhi etc. Those are MAX guys. Everyone else, pick up the leftovers.

The complete opposite is true. The current system massively benefits players who aren't KD, AD, LeBron, Kawhi etc. If there was no limit on maximum salaries, guys like LeBron and Giannis would have their salaries doubled at the very least.

Yeah when you look at the 3rd and 4th highest paid players on a lot of teams, their salaries might be considered quite generous.

Elnegron · Post #15 » by **Elnegron** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:45 pm

If he is a max player, bam is a super max

Ayt · Post #16 » by **Ayt** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:49 pm

Elnegron wrote:If he is a max player, bam is a super max

Bam is 100% a max guy.

Tha Cynic · Post #17 » by **Tha Cynic** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:01 pm

I don't think I've heard of this guy before this article.

dice · Post #18 » by **dice** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:07 pm

Tha Cynic wrote:I don't think I've heard of this guy before this article.

new to basketball?

dice · Post #19 » by **dice** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:11 pm

Ayt wrote:
LAKESHOW wrote:Sorry bruh, the market is set and the system is rigged. KD, AD, Lebron, Kawhi etc. Those are MAX guys. Everyone else, pick up the leftovers.

The complete opposite is true. The current system massively benefits players who aren't KD, AD, LeBron, Kawhi etc. If there was no limit on maximum salaries, guys like LeBron and Giannis would have their salaries doubled at the very least.

I dunno about doubled. there would still be a salary cap. paying ANY player 70% of cap is a recipe for mediocrity. but I agree with your overall point

Revenged25 · Post #20 » by **Revenged25** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:23 pm

Is he actually worth a max contract? Absolutely not. Has the market pretty much determined that any young player with a lot of potential that has produced even slightly well will get a max contract to guarantee they stay, it definitely has. He'll get a max contract not because that's the caliber of player he is but because that is the market for young players that play as well as he does.