Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I]

[Fat]

Here’s how I feel if Zion was healthy from the jump and was playing the way he is now then yes he is ROY. Shoulda coulda woulda.

It’s a spit in the face to morant who actually does have the games under his belt and even leading his team to the playoffs. Zion is ROY at heart but morant is more deserving of it.

[Fat]

let me ask this replace Zion with a low profiled rookie who doesn’t have the name Zion Williamson behind it and was in the same exact situation would anyone care? Would the debate still be the same

[Ambrose]

let me ask this replace Zion with a low profiled rookie who doesn’t have the name Zion Williamson behind it and was in the same exact situation would anyone care? Would the debate still be the same

No. It's pure hype. He's not going to be eligible for any season-ending statistics. Why should he be eligible for season accolades? And for what? He's been outstanding offensively/absymal defensively. He's on a team that was supposed to be good. They are 10-9 with him. Memphis is 31-28 with Ja with a significantly worse cast. Ja will have double the games played at the end of the year. The Zion ROY talk is pure lunacy.

[Marcus]

let me ask this replace Zion with a low profiled rookie who doesn’t have the name Zion Williamson behind it and was in the same exact situation would anyone care? Would the debate still be the same

would the numbers and potential be the same? If Zion Williamson's name was "Jeff from 125th street" and the production and potential were the same, the hype would be the same because the product would be the same.

I'm not denying narrative, but the narrative was created off of what he did prior. then the narrative became furthered because OF WHAT HE'S DOING. It's not for nothing that this narrative exist. I personally didn't think there would be enough time but the wave is the wave good sir. The conversation changes if he wasn't producing but that's not the case. It is what it is.

[Duke4life831]

let me ask this replace Zion with a low profiled rookie who doesn’t have the name Zion Williamson behind it and was in the same exact situation would anyone care? Would the debate still be the same

Okay lets take away all narrative (which I agree plays a big part).

A few things to put his season into perspective:
Only 5 previous rookies have had a season of at least 15ppg and a 60 TS%. Zion will be the 6th.
Only 2 previous rookies have had a season of at least 20ppg and a 60 TS%. Zion will be the 3rd.
Zion is currently 3rd all time for rookies when it comes to per 36 scoring: 3 and 4 years younger than Embiid and Wilt (the 2 guys ahead of him)
Only 4 teenagers have averaged 20ppg. Zion will be the 5th.

Out of that group of 5 teenagers to average at least 20ppg:
Zion has the highest ppg (23.6 vs 21.2 for next highest)
Zion has the highest TS% (62% vs 54% for the next highest)
Per 36 gap sets him even further apart (28.5 vs 23.7)

I mean I could keep going but I think you get my point. Zion is arguably having the greatest scoring season ever by a rookie when you factor in per minute scoring and efficiency.

I do agree that narratives like Zion being the reason that turned around the Pels season and him being the reason they're fighting for a playoff spot is dumb. They turned their season around before he got back and are playing pretty much at the same level as they were before he returned. But he is still having a historic individual rookie season.

[clyde21]

let me ask this replace Zion with a low profiled rookie who doesn’t have the name Zion Williamson behind it and was in the same exact situation would anyone care? Would the debate still be the same

this doesn't make any sense. are you saying if his name was Joe Smith there wouldn't be any hype? would Joe Smith be a different player or something?

[clyde21]

let me ask this replace Zion with a low profiled rookie who doesn’t have the name Zion Williamson behind it and was in the same exact situation would anyone care? Would the debate still be the same

No. It's pure hype. He's not going to be eligible for any season-ending statistics. Why should he be eligible for season accolades? And for what? He's been outstanding offensively/absymal defensively. He's on a team that was supposed to be good. They are 10-9 with him. Memphis is 31-28 with Ja with a significantly worse cast. Ja will have double the games played at the end of the year. The Zion ROY talk is pure lunacy.

yea, the fact that Zion is averaging per 29/8/3/1 on 63 TS% with a +13 On/Off per 36 as a rookie is most definitely all hype

[Ambrose]

let me ask this replace Zion with a low profiled rookie who doesn’t have the name Zion Williamson behind it and was in the same exact situation would anyone care? Would the debate still be the same

No. It's pure hype. He's not going to be eligible for any season-ending statistics. Why should he be eligible for season accolades? And for what? He's been outstanding offensively/absymal defensively. He's on a team that was supposed to be good. They are 10-9 with him. Memphis is 31-28 with Ja with a significantly worse cast. Ja will have double the games played at the end of the year. The Zion ROY talk is pure lunacy.

yea, the fact that Zion is averaging per 29/8/3/1 on 63 TS% with a +13 On/Off per 36 as a rookie is most definitely all hype

His play isn't all hype, the ROY talk is.

[Fat]

let me ask this replace Zion with a low profiled rookie who doesn’t have the name Zion Williamson behind it and was in the same exact situation would anyone care? Would the debate still be the same

this doesn't make any sense. are you saying if his name was Joe Smith there wouldn't be any hype? would Joe Smith be a different player or something?

No I’m saying if this wasn’t actually Zion and let’s say instead was some late second rounder that nobody really even heard of, nobody outside of the nba barely even knows he was drafted. Pretty much a no name and He comes out of nowhere after missing the same amount of time Zion has missed and came out the blue and had the same impact number wise as Zion is having. Would anyone care to push the same agenda that he should be rookie of the year?

Or is zions popularity and hype part of the reason he is being push to win it? (Not saying fully) but could that play half the part

[Marcus]

let me ask this replace Zion with a low profiled rookie who doesn’t have the name Zion Williamson behind it and was in the same exact situation would anyone care? Would the debate still be the same

this doesn't make any sense. are you saying if his name was Joe Smith there wouldn't be any hype? would Joe Smith be a different player or something?

No I’m saying if this wasn’t actually Zion and let’s say instead was some late second rounder that nobody really even heard of, nobody outside of the nba barely even knows he was drafted. Pretty much a no name and He comes out of nowhere after missing the same amount of time Zion has missed and came out the blue and had the same impact number wise as Zion is having. Would anyone care to push the same agenda that he should be rookie of the year?

Or is zions popularity and hype part of the reason he is being to win it? (Not saying fully) but could that play half the part

people love a good story sir. if he was unknown and came out of nowhere with this same production there would be chatter for him receiving the award. I think there have been enough cases to support that. Nunn came out the gate as a feel good story. Whiteside had a run when he came out of nowhere. Linsanity comes to mind. A story is a story is a narrative created especially when backed by production.

to your second point. I don't think you'll find a person alive wearing any shade or size of a Zion cape that won't admit the name carries weight. But this isn't just name based. He's backing up the hype. Fair or nah, this whole convo does not exist without him performing.

[clyde21]

let me ask this replace Zion with a low profiled rookie who doesn’t have the name Zion Williamson behind it and was in the same exact situation would anyone care? Would the debate still be the same

this doesn't make any sense. are you saying if his name was Joe Smith there wouldn't be any hype? would Joe Smith be a different player or something?

No I’m saying if this wasn’t actually Zion and let’s say instead was some late second rounder that nobody really even heard of, nobody outside of the nba barely even knows he was drafted. Pretty much a no name and He comes out of nowhere after missing the same amount of time Zion has missed and came out the blue and had the same impact number wise as Zion is having. Would anyone care to push the same agenda that he should be rookie of the year?

Or is zions popularity and hype part of the reason he is being push to win it? (Not saying fully) but could that play half the part

i don't think you can separate the two, if Joe Smith was as good as Zion he wouldn't have been a late second rounder, and even if he was, posting Shaq rookie numbers people would still be talking about him being ROTY regardless

[NO-KG-AI]

let me ask this replace Zion with a low profiled rookie who doesn’t have the name Zion Williamson behind it and was in the same exact situation would anyone care? Would the debate still be the same

If some rookie came in with his ridiculous scoring rate, and was manhandling everyone in the paint, and dunking everything, yea, he'd be getting a lot of traction.

People want to spin a narrative that Zion is just hype, like he's not monstrously productive as a rookie. He's scoring more points in the paint than anyone in the league, and he's a child.

Why wouldn't a dominant scorer with amazing on/off numbers get hyped? When has anyone put up giant numbers and not got steam?

[Fat]

let me ask this replace Zion with a low profiled rookie who doesn’t have the name Zion Williamson behind it and was in the same exact situation would anyone care? Would the debate still be the same

If some rookie came in with his ridiculous scoring rate, and was manhandling everyone in the paint, and dunking everything, yea, he'd be getting a lot of traction.

People want to spin a narrative that Zion is just hype, like he's not monstrously productive as a rookie. He's scoring more points in the paint than anyone in the league, and he's a child.

Why wouldn't a dominant scorer with amazing on/off numbers get hyped? When has anyone put up giant numbers and not got steam?

Of course he gets the traction my whole point is would that lesser profiled player still have the same opportunity as Zion to win a rookie of the year even though he’d be finishing the year playing only 30 something games or can narrative be painted Zion has hype ontop of What he’s already accomplished that can help him win it.

I only ask this because embiid had 33 games played with superior stats vs brodgon but brodgon had 75 games under his belt and ended up winning

So what would make this situation so different That Zion would beat out morant?

[NO-KG-AI]

Joel played 31 games at the very beginning of the year, and not the end of it, and that's going to weigh on people's minds a lot. Joel played 786 minutes shot 46%, and average over 5 fouls and 5 turnovers per 36. Zion is going to pass Joel in minutes played in the next 4-5 games, and it's probably going to be pushing close to double the amount of minutes played, unless he gets hurt again.

I really don't care about ROY and think Morant should win anyway, but Zion and Embiid are only comparable on the surface level. It is just chafing people that some people want to give it to Zion because he's clearly a much more dominant player, and some people are saying that (and loudly), and I think it's less about the award, and more about that they just don't want to hear that Zion is better, and a lot of that is because people had some ridiculous takes on Zion before the season started to try and counterhype.

[Crizzle]

let me ask this replace Zion with a low profiled rookie who doesn’t have the name Zion Williamson behind it and was in the same exact situation would anyone care? Would the debate still be the same

this doesn't make any sense. are you saying if his name was Joe Smith there wouldn't be any hype? would Joe Smith be a different player or something?

No I’m saying if this wasn’t actually Zion and let’s say instead was some late second rounder that nobody really even heard of, nobody outside of the nba barely even knows he was drafted. Pretty much a no name and He comes out of nowhere after missing the same amount of time Zion has missed and came out the blue and had the same impact number wise as Zion is having. Would anyone care to push the same agenda that he should be rookie of the year?

Or is zions popularity and hype part of the reason he is being push to win it? (Not saying fully) but could that play half the part

Bro, do you even Linsanity?

[Crizzle]

All i care is that Ja appears to be headed to stardom. Not saying hes going to be a legit superstar, but hes gonna be good . Not wining the award might even put another chip on his shoulder and make him work that much harder.

[Young gun 6]

Well as long as awards are announced, if the regular season ended now, we'd all be in agreement Ja is the winner?

[Fat]

Watch on YouTube

RJ went out with a bang

Hunter had a good night as well

[NO-KG-AI]

All i care is that Ja appears to be headed to stardom. Not saying hes going to be a legit superstar, but hes gonna be good . Not wining the award might even put another chip on his shoulder and make him work that much harder.

Right? I think Grizz fans would be a little salty if he didn’t win it since he’s been fantastic since day one, and Zion missed a ton, but I doubt they care about it nearly as much as the people that wanted Zion to fail care about it.


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[NO-KG-AI]

Well as long as awards are announced, if the regular season ended now, we'd all be in agreement Ja is the winner?

Nah, 59 games isn’t enough to win it.