OT: The Official Coronavirus thread - Be well, be safe

[Deeeez Knicks]

All the candidates have issues, but the current guy in office is by far the worse. Worse then mills and dolan combined.

[spree8]

I think you're referring to something that occurred in 1988. Perhaps we should listen to his surgeon and not social media attacks for a change.

https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-brain-surgeon-says-hes-not-too-old-for-president-2019-8?r=DE&IR=T

A worthwhile article on the subject:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/20/joe-biden-old-age-1468635

And if people are going to talk about medical records and not something from 1988, then I would be interested to know why Sanders who just had a heart attack this past few months is withholding his medical records.

I'd say Bernie is the one whose health is the issue right now, not Joe.

I’m well aware it occurred in 1988, but it happened, and who knows what kind of long-term effects can result from such a serious surgery.

I mentioned a lot of other specific things you haven’t acknowledged, and why are you bringing up Bernie? Hopefully not to deflect from Joe’s issues. They’re seriously concerning. Not sure why you refuse to give it any credence.

1988 and you ask what long-term effects can result from it. Of course it is relevant to bring up Bernie who had a heart attack months ago and you're harping on something that happened 32 years ago.

Credence?

I've already explained Biden is known for verbal gaffes and he certainly could have cognitive decline at his age. I have yet to meet anyone who doesn't have cognitive decline as they age.

The issue is can he do his job well or not. If your point is he cannot because he had an aneurysm in 1988 or because he misspeaks at times, then I see nothing to debate, because I can deal with lapses.

And Biden is going to be the nominee so I no longer care about Bernie's ability to be president, because he isn't going to get the chance to do it. The voters have spoken. Biden's margins are growing and if Sanders were smart he'd negotiate with Biden now what he wants to be included on the Democratic Party's platform, but it is not going to a brokered convention so if he doesn't do it now he has zero leverage after next Tuesday.

All of this crap about Biden's cognition is fueled by disappointment that Bernie is not going to be the nominee. If everyone was being a realist, they'd root for Bernie to do his part to beat Trump which at this point is to help the ticket, support Biden and to do what he can now so he gets maximum input on the policies Biden will legislate in less than a year.

I hope some of you guys realize Bernie's delegates are worthless because Joe is heading into the convention with a majority. It will not be brokered like many expected, because Biden is beating the pants off Bernie BEFORE they even get to most of the bigger states where Biden was favored to win. It's over, so quit trying to destroy Biden out of spite. We have to beat Trump and Bernie is not going to be the nominee. Nothing you say about Biden is going to change that anyway.

I still don’t know why you’re bringing up Bernie... I never mentioned him, and I’m referring to Biden’s health concerns since he will likely be the nominee. You’re bringing Bernie up, but then saying you don’t care about him.. I don’t get it.

You literally said:

1. “Biden has been like that his whole life”
2. “That’s the way his brain is wired”
3. “It didn’t just start now because he got older”

So, how is that giving it any credence? That sounds like denial to me.

[matchman]

[thebuzzardman]

What does his stutter have to do with him saying he was arrested in South Africa during apartheid?

He rambles about a whole lot of nothing when he's asked a simple question, and in the end he doesn't even answer the question.

You watch what he did today and tell me he was incompetent and rambling and I'll accept your opinion. But if you dismiss his current performance out of hand because you are predisposed to writing him off then there's nothing to talk about. Check the tape and then we can discuss it further

Although it’s not dementia, how can you honestly deny his cognitive decline? It’s clearly due to his age. He speaks nothing like he used to. His gaffe’s are far worse nowadays and much more frequent (virtually every time he speaks). His age has exacerbated his stuttering issue, and frankly, it’s not even up for debate. There’s no denying it... it’s pretty much the general consensus at this point.

Confusing your wife for your sister, not knowing the office you’re running for, making up weird names to call people, getting into constant confrontations with people on the trail, etc, plus his debate performances... he can’t wait until his time runs out to stop speaking. He sometimes can’t finish a full sentence. The fact that he did have a brain surgery and his medical records that were released don’t have any mention of his mental health are concerning. There’s more than enough evidence to be concerned... to disregard all of this is far more suspect.

Good thing that paradigm of mental health and clarity, Donald Trump, is the alternative choice.

[spree8]

You watch what he did today and tell me he was incompetent and rambling and I'll accept your opinion. But if you dismiss his current performance out of hand because you are predisposed to writing him off then there's nothing to talk about. Check the tape and then we can discuss it further

Although it’s not dementia, how can you honestly deny his cognitive decline? It’s clearly due to his age. He speaks nothing like he used to. His gaffe’s are far worse nowadays and much more frequent (virtually every time he speaks). His age has exacerbated his stuttering issue, and frankly, it’s not even up for debate. There’s no denying it... it’s pretty much the general consensus at this point.

Confusing your wife for your sister, not knowing the office you’re running for, making up weird names to call people, getting into constant confrontations with people on the trail, etc, plus his debate performances... he can’t wait until his time runs out to stop speaking. He sometimes can’t finish a full sentence. The fact that he did have a brain surgery and his medical records that were released don’t have any mention of his mental health are concerning. There’s more than enough evidence to be concerned... to disregard all of this is far more suspect.

Good thing that paradigm of mental health and clarity, Donald Trump, is the alternative choice.

Hey now, I didn’t say all that lol.

[thebuzzardman]

Although it’s not dementia, how can you honestly deny his cognitive decline? It’s clearly due to his age. He speaks nothing like he used to. His gaffe’s are far worse nowadays and much more frequent (virtually every time he speaks). His age has exacerbated his stuttering issue, and frankly, it’s not even up for debate. There’s no denying it... it’s pretty much the general consensus at this point.

Confusing your wife for your sister, not knowing the office you’re running for, making up weird names to call people, getting into constant confrontations with people on the trail, etc, plus his debate performances... he can’t wait until his time runs out to stop speaking. He sometimes can’t finish a full sentence. The fact that he did have a brain surgery and his medical records that were released don’t have any mention of his mental health are concerning. There’s more than enough evidence to be concerned... to disregard all of this is far more suspect.

Good thing that paradigm of mental health and clarity, Donald Trump, is the alternative choice.

Hey now, I didn’t say all that lol.

At this point, it's between two candidates who are probably in cognitive decline.
Also, Uncle Joe seems like a cool guy who's done a little blow in his life, for fun and good times, but that's it
The Donald looks to me like he's taking pharmaceutical methamphetamine every day just to keep up. (All the paranoid, boasty, fidgety, sweaty, dilated pupils in brightly lit rooms action)

I'll take drunk uncle over paranoid maniac

[spree8]

Good thing that paradigm of mental health and clarity, Donald Trump, is the alternative choice.

Hey now, I didn’t say all that lol.

At this point, it's between two candidates who are probably in cognitive decline.
Also, Uncle Joe seems like a cool guy who's done a little blow in his life, for fun and good times, but that's it
The Donald looks to me like he's taking pharmaceutical methamphetamine every day just to keep up. (All the paranoid, boasty, fidgety, sweaty, dilated pupils in brightly lit rooms action)

I'll take drunk uncle over paranoid maniac

Haha absolutely... I just wish the party didn’t rally around someone who was so vulnerable to attacks from that psychopath. Climate change alone (which actually contributes to outbreaks like this) is enough of an issue by itself (not to mention a whole host of others) to make it such a dire emergency to get him out of office. We can’t afford to lose, and Biden is an easy target for him, and we’re already seeing Trump attacking his mental fitness along with his corruption issues with Hunter.

I just hope Biden can either add a progressive to the ticket or adopt a lot of progressive ideas that will get the youth out to vote for him because we desperately need that. Legalizing marijuana and raising min wage should be the starting point to entice them.

The only solace I take in this catastrophe is that it’s exposing the hell outta him as someone who cannot be trusted to lead this country through its darkest hour.

[GONYK]

Hey now, I didn’t say all that lol.

At this point, it's between two candidates who are probably in cognitive decline.
Also, Uncle Joe seems like a cool guy who's done a little blow in his life, for fun and good times, but that's it
The Donald looks to me like he's taking pharmaceutical methamphetamine every day just to keep up. (All the paranoid, boasty, fidgety, sweaty, dilated pupils in brightly lit rooms action)

I'll take drunk uncle over paranoid maniac

Haha absolutely... I just wish the party didn’t rally around someone who was so vulnerable to attacks from that psychopath. Climate change alone (which actually contributes to outbreaks like this) is enough of an issue by itself (not to mention a whole host of others) to make it such a dire emergency to get him out of office. We can’t afford to lose, and Biden is an easy target for him, and we’re already seeing Trump attacking his mental fitness along with his corruption issues with Hunter.

I just hope Biden can either add a progressive to the ticket or adopt a lot of progressive ideas that will get the youth out to vote for him because we desperately need that. Legalizing marijuana and raising min wage should be the starting point to entice them.

The only solace I take in this catastrophe is that it’s exposing the hell outta him as someone who cannot be trusted to lead this country through its darkest hour.

Based on the low youth turnout in the primary, I'm not sure they earned being catered to.

I do think that Biden will add someone a bit more progressive to the ticket though.

[spree8]

At this point, it's between two candidates who are probably in cognitive decline.
Also, Uncle Joe seems like a cool guy who's done a little blow in his life, for fun and good times, but that's it
The Donald looks to me like he's taking pharmaceutical methamphetamine every day just to keep up. (All the paranoid, boasty, fidgety, sweaty, dilated pupils in brightly lit rooms action)

I'll take drunk uncle over paranoid maniac

Haha absolutely... I just wish the party didn’t rally around someone who was so vulnerable to attacks from that psychopath. Climate change alone (which actually contributes to outbreaks like this) is enough of an issue by itself (not to mention a whole host of others) to make it such a dire emergency to get him out of office. We can’t afford to lose, and Biden is an easy target for him, and we’re already seeing Trump attacking his mental fitness along with his corruption issues with Hunter.

I just hope Biden can either add a progressive to the ticket or adopt a lot of progressive ideas that will get the youth out to vote for him because we desperately need that. Legalizing marijuana and raising min wage should be the starting point to entice them.

The only solace I take in this catastrophe is that it’s exposing the hell outta him as someone who cannot be trusted to lead this country through its darkest hour.

Based on the low youth turnout in the primary, I'm not sure they earned being catered to.

I do think that Biden will add someone a bit more progressive to the ticket though.

I dunno. I’m hearing mixed info about youth turnout. If it wasn’t as much as some are saying, perhaps they saw the writing on the wall after SC and all the Biden endorsements. I’m under 40, in Florida, and even I’m considering not even bothering as it’s surely a lost cause... not only that, but we have the virus to worry about.

As far as adding a progressive... doesn’t look so good...

Watch on YouTube

[Capn'O]

Youth have never voted in primaries. I didn't until much later.

[j4remi]

All the article says is that the youth vote may be more than the 10-19% that was reported from exit polling, but there is no way to know for sure, and it's definitely not nearly as high as Obama was able to turn out.

There's no doubt that there is a surge among older voters for Biden, but he is also buoyed by the black vote and suburban women as well.

Bernie's coalition just can't compete. He never cultivated broad support.

Ehhhh...Biden didn't actually cultivate broad support either...his dominance has been in mostly red states (I can't stand the southern wall BS because of that). He was losing to Bernie in all polling until Pete and Amy's zero hour drop outs and endorsements. It's also worth repeating that Biden voters consistently polled with Bernie as their second choice, so a vote for Biden should not equate to a condemnation of Bernie. It's just a matter of preference from older voters.

Also, if you look at the exit polling, Bernie's progressive ideals have won out in policy polling. M4A beats private insurance in every Democratic exit poll so far; the GND also polled strong, I didn't check every state but what I've seen so far has been that big changes to the economy >>> tweaks. All of that flows with Bernie's agenda. However, "Beating Trump" has been the top priority of voters.

So the narrative that has been built for 5 years now that Bernie is risky combined with the moderate wing coalescing behind Biden to bump the numbers (this is not to mention over 100 million dollars in positive press for Biden since South Carolina). Then throw in Warren's refusal to endorse and create a similar sense of progressive unity and we've got a recipe for Biden going on a big run.

But in terms of cultivating broad support, no candidate was able to do that with the flood of competing options and messages. Biden scored key endorsements and rode the "we have to beat Trump" focus past people's policy preferences. But reality is, exit polls show plenty of support for the progressive agenda.

And side note: Biden is blatantly in decline compared to say, his debate performances against Ron Paul. He's better than Trump, he'll have my vote, but my concerns are that everyone I know who doesn't pay close attention but has seen Biden's gaffes has hit me up to ask if the guy is all there. Trump will capitalize on low information voters again and Biden's complete lack of stamina or ability to deal with challenges from even town hall members has me concerned that the tactic will work.

[Clyde_Style]

Youth have never voted in primaries. I didn't until much later.

I turned 18 on an election year. Have voted every time.

[Capn'O]

Youth have never voted in primaries. I didn't until much later.

I turned 18 on an election year. Have voted every time.

I've voted in every general election.

[Clyde_Style]

All the article says is that the youth vote may be more than the 10-19% that was reported from exit polling, but there is no way to know for sure, and it's definitely not nearly as high as Obama was able to turn out.

There's no doubt that there is a surge among older voters for Biden, but he is also buoyed by the black vote and suburban women as well.

Bernie's coalition just can't compete. He never cultivated broad support.

Ehhhh...Biden didn't actually cultivate broad support either...his dominance has been in mostly red states (I can't stand the southern wall BS because of that). He was losing to Bernie in all polling until Pete and Amy's zero hour drop outs and endorsements. It's also worth repeating that Biden voters consistently polled with Bernie as their second choice, so a vote for Biden should not equate to a condemnation of Bernie. It's just a matter of preference from older voters.

Also, if you look at the exit polling, Bernie's progressive ideals have won out in policy polling. M4A beats private insurance in every Democratic exit poll so far; the GND also polled strong, I didn't check every state but what I've seen so far has been that big changes to the economy >>> tweaks. All of that flows with Bernie's agenda. However, "Beating Trump" has been the top priority of voters.

So the narrative that has been built for 5 years now that Bernie is risky combined with the moderate wing coalescing behind Biden to bump the numbers (this is not to mention over 100 million dollars in positive press for Biden since South Carolina). Then throw in Warren's refusal to endorse and create a similar sense of progressive unity and we've got a recipe for Biden going on a big run.

But in terms of cultivating broad support, no candidate was able to do that with the flood of competing options and messages. Biden scored key endorsements and rode the "we have to beat Trump" focus past people's policy preferences. But reality is, exit polls show plenty of support for the progressive agenda.

And side note: Biden is blatantly in decline compared to say, his debate performances against Ron Paul. He's better than Trump, he'll have my vote, but my concerns are that everyone I know who doesn't pay close attention but has seen Biden's gaffes has hit me up to ask if the guy is all there. Trump will capitalize on low information voters again and Biden's complete lack of stamina or ability to deal with challenges from even town hall members has me concerned that the tactic will work.

It very much was about beating Trump. That's why I said the smart thing for Sanders to do now is back Biden so he has a place at the table. Either way, the progressive agenda is growing within the party and it will only be boosted by the fall-out of the current situation.

Biden's condition is still a quantum improvement over Trump whose cognitive abilities were never there to begin with unless you call trolling a mental attribute.

And Biden has been pretty upfront about his age and I don't think he or anybody in his circle believes he is running to hold the seat for two terms. He's almost surely going to be replaced by his VP as the second term nominee before he enters his fourth year in office. And if he does suffer health complications, he's sensible enough to step down, thus I feel safe with this choice. He'll have competent people in his administration so it will be planned for before it comes to that.

[Stannis]

And side note: Biden is blatantly in decline compared to say, his debate performances against Ron Paul. He's better than Trump, he'll have my vote, but my concerns are that everyone I know who doesn't pay close attention but has seen Biden's gaffes has hit me up to ask if the guy is all there. Trump will capitalize on low information voters again and Biden's complete lack of stamina or ability to deal with challenges from even town hall members has me concerned that the tactic will work.

Hate to use this Coronavirus as a political weapon, but I think this can put Biden over Trump.

There will be less events and rallies, and maybe even less debates (at least with an audience).

EDIT: Side note, the market crashing will help Biden as well.

I know a few minorities who want Trump for a 2nd term even though they think he's a racist. They were doing well in the market and they believe Trump was the reason. Trump will lose these silent voters if the market continues to crash, because that's the #1 thing he had going for him.

[Clyde_Style]

Youth have never voted in primaries. I didn't until much later.

I turned 18 on an election year. Have voted every time.

I've voted in every general election.

Same. I've not always been fully attuned to state and municipal races TBH

[Iron Mantis]

Came for Coronavirus fear mongering news, left with an earful of political banter.

[Clyde_Style]

And side note: Biden is blatantly in decline compared to say, his debate performances against Ron Paul. He's better than Trump, he'll have my vote, but my concerns are that everyone I know who doesn't pay close attention but has seen Biden's gaffes has hit me up to ask if the guy is all there. Trump will capitalize on low information voters again and Biden's complete lack of stamina or ability to deal with challenges from even town hall members has me concerned that the tactic will work.

Hate to use this Coronavirus as a political weapon, but I think this can put Biden over Trump.

There will be less events and rallies, and maybe even less debates (at least with an audience).

EDIT: Side note, the market crashing will help Biden as well.

I know a few minorities who want Trump for a 2nd term even though they think he's a racist. They were doing well in the market and they believe Trump was the reason. Trump will lose these silent voters if the market continues to crash, because that's the #1 thing he had going for him.

Trump riding an economic trend was his security blanket. That's gone. If you talk to sober businessmen they'll tell you Trump was lucky because his actions were bound to harm the economy eventually. This was a different trigger, but Trump's policies will make recovery harder now. The isolationist fantasy world he was promoting only had traction because of the economic situation he inherited. When this passes and adults get back in the room together there will be new trade agreements and global trade will resume on steadier feet.

Even if a crash and downturn costs Trump only 10% of the people who would have voted for him (though I'm guessing it could be as much as 25% by November) that still widens the gap for Biden into a probable historical blow-out win. His hard core base cannot be more than 30% of the country. I think his cult is probably around 20% of the country and the other 20% of the 40% he polls around are a diverse demographic mostly comprised of long-time Republicans with a mix of swing voters.

[j4remi]

It very much was about beating Trump. That's why I said the smart thing for Sanders to do now is back Biden so he has a place at the table. Either way, the progressive agenda is growing within the party and it will only be boosted by the fall-out of the current situation.

Biden's condition is still a quantum improvement over Trump whose cognitive abilities were never there to begin with unless you call trolling a mental attribute.

And Biden has been pretty upfront about his age and I don't think he or anybody in his circle believes he is running to hold the seat for two terms. He's almost surely going to be replaced by his VP as the second term nominee before he enters his fourth year in office. And if he does suffer health complications, he's sensible enough to step down, thus I feel safe with this choice. He'll have competent people in his administration so it will be planned for before it comes to that.

I take serious issue with pushing out a candidate who is within 100 delegates while there are well over 1000 delegates to be awarded. Neither candidate is even halfway there and a lot of voters deserve a choice. It's fundamentally undemocratic imo. Also, the leverage to pull Biden's agenda left and make sure he actually offers some compromise to the progressive wing is gonna be important. Every exit poll that shows Democrats prefer an agenda to the left of Biden's is valuable data heading into a fight with Trump who will attempt to muddy the convo around certain issues (cuts to Social Security for example).

The progressive agenda will definitely keep growing, but part of that is getting messages and explanations out about what the progressive agenda actually is. That's why I supported both Bernie and Warren with donations. They were informing the broader public of ideals that had been mostly caracatured by most cable news outlets. I'd prefer to keep at least one voice in the race that represents the wants and needs of the next generation. Point blank Bernie wins every Demo 40 and under, those votes deserve representation for at least a while longer.

Biden's mental acuity in full blown dementia would be better than Trump. That's the discussion that needs to be had. Denial won't work, shaming won't work, we need to acknowledge the real flaws in the candidate and figure out how to counterpunch. Trump should make most of that work easy enough. But I think Hillary had an issue with denying or refusing to fully acknowledge past mistakes and what that did was make it harder for people to believe when she denied genuine bad faith arguments (Benghazi and the emails for example).

I agree that Biden himself has been fairly upfront. But there have been some odd attempts to give it cover by his team and some media members. Trying to blame his gaffes all on a stutter is an example and I believe the push by some to dump all future debates is another example. They shouldn't have to hide him when he needs to inspire enthusiasm. I thought his address yesterday was a really good step in the right direction. He needs to build those moments up and have a highlight reel to build into the simple "you can get with this or you can get with that" campaign I believe they'll run on...Bitcofer's negative partisanship really needs to be embraced to beat Trump.

Basically, Biden should be using a campaign against Bernie to assuage concerns and prepare for a much more aggressive and bad faith challenge when Trump is the opponent. Trying to force Bernie out prematurely doesn't show strength and won't inspire any of Sanders' support to vote Biden in a general. They'll more likely stay home. And I say that mainly about the independents, Bernie has won a stronger majority of independents who are much more important swing voters than the Never Trump Republicans who get so much light on news shows.

Edit: just to throw it in, I think the late shift that was heavily endorsement based shows soft support. That's worrisome to me, again not in people swinging to Trump but not showing up. With the virus and economy right now though, almost anyone beats trump. Marianne Williamson would body him. So who knows.

[robillionaire]

I would have said Biden has a 0% chance of winning but with the market crash and coronavirus uncertainty it's hard to say, he may actually have a puncher's chance if conditions don't improve by November. If this blows over in a month or so and the market has a recovery rally and it's back to business as usual, I'm strongly confident trump will win again. If the economy is in shambles and we are in a full blown recession I put it at 50/50. Also I'm assuming the above poster was referencing the debate with Paul Ryan and not Ron Paul, but he isn't that same guy anymore, Trump will drag him in a debate mercilessly. Trump is bad with a teleprompter because he can hardly read. But he's good at using talking points and quick rebuttals in debates. Biden is the opposite, can read a teleprompter but when forced to go off script and come up with his own thoughts sometimes it goes to weird places and he easily loses his composure. Not to mention you'll be seeing pictures of him inappropriately grabbing people everywhere you look. This is not a Russian conspiracy theory, Booker and Castro and msnbc even had to bring it up. Jon Stewart highlighted his inappropriate behavior back in 2015. I probably won't even follow the election cycle and will play ff7 remake and catch up on my backlog of steam games since there's no sports.