OT: The Official Coronavirus thread - Be well, be safe

[Iron Mantis]

on a side note has anybody in the city tried to get groceries today, i'm about to hit the stores

People are literally panic-shopping and hoarding like the bubonic plague has returned. It's quite the overreaction really.

It's difficult to find even toilet paper or bread in highly populated areas.

[Clyde_Style]

That's his choice. It's a fruitless endeavor though.

I'll just say that this is why many people dislike Bernie. Things like this are perceived as being way more about himself than the good of the party or winning the election.

Again I want to push back against "why many people dislike Bernie" while Bernie has spent 5 years as the politician in Congress with the highest favorability ratings (Biden only passed him after taking the delegate lead btw). He's disliked by a very specific subset of Democrats who happen to have a lot of air time. But generally speaking he is extremely well liked.

I'd also point out that when Bernie had the lead, the conversation was about taking away the victory via a contested convention. As soon as Biden won a single state, the conversation flipped to Biden being the winner. That is the absolute perfect example of the subset of Democrats I'm talking about. They drive some narratives but the numbers don't support a vast dislike of Bernie.

I covered the primary number projections in a logical, non-partisan manner so I don't know what you're talking about a particular subset of Democrats. The majority in SC was significant because it was not a predominantly white small electorate like Iowa or NH. Bernie was never the prohibitive favorite in my mind based on the early results (where Pete actually won in Iowa). The NY Times had an actual headline after Nevada saying Is Sanders Unstoppable? It was ridiculous!

So when SC voted it was a much better gauge for people IN the race to drop out and for voters on the fence to pick their horse.

It is not a particular kind of person who backs Biden over Sanders based on the odds that is a problem at all, because this is a race about beating Trump and more people think Biden is suited for that job than Bernie and there's nothing we can do about it either way. That's the majority perception coming out of last Tuesday by a significant margin. It wasn't even close. Bernie needed to win big in California and he didn't.

The media narrative flip flops all the time. They are trying to stir up clicks. They loved Trump in 2016 because it drove viewership. Most people in media don't like Trump, but they didn't think he'd win either. Their business is to create a horse race and if Bernie flipped Joe on Tuesday you can bet the media outlets will be pushing the narrative that its a tight race again. They love to do that.

But I was voting for Warren until she dropped out. Many democrats are like me. They were going to vote for her or Pete or Amy or Mike and it would have gone to the convention. But that's not happening now. I don't like this angle that somehow a boring block of moderate democrats are stifling the progressives. I'm a progressive and I'll vote for Biden over Bernie next Tuesday in Florida.

Further, I have issues with Bernie I haven't even raised. I have grown not to trust him myself. I don't believe in him as a person or as an effective politician and I do not think he would be very good as president. That's me, a progressive, saying that, not a moderate. I'd vote for Bernie anyway if he were the nominee, but at this point I don't believe in his abilities to get anything done or even to beat Trump so I'm going with Biden.

[GONYK]

I feel Bernie is the only one who will get that treatment and thought process though.

If the current results were switched, and Bernie was up 150 points, would people be telling Biden to call it? Probably not. Because it's clear the DNC doesn't want Bernie. And if it made it to the convention, it was made clear that Bernie would receive no help.

Bernie still speaks out to a sizeable population. Many still want to see a M4A. He's staying. And as long there is a chance, he should.

Bernie is was never an attacker. So I don't expect him to debate and point out Biden's cognitive decline or anything like that.

If the Democratic Party really wants progressive votes, they need to let this primary play out. Stop trying to get the message out there that this is over and staying is only helping Trump. That's false. It's actually the opposite.

This tweet thread explains it good to me:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

If Bernie was up 150 delegates at this point in time, that would mean that he won South Carolina, Michigan, TX, and VA. Which would mean that he has the support of the black community, working class whites, and suburban women.

If he had the support of those communities, the Democratic party couldn't deny him even if they wanted to.

1 of 3 things needs to happen for Bernie to have a chance

1. Bernie wins in every state and keeps Biden below the 15% delegate threshold in every state. As long as Joe still gets delegates, Bernie loses ground.

2. Biden does something to lose the support of the black community. (Says the N word by accident during a debate? )

3. Biden dies

Now, admittedly, not all of those are out of the realm of possibility. I just don't think you open up field offices and continue to distract the presumptive nominee from being able to concentrate on the general election while opening him to lines of attack on the off-chance one of them happens.

If people cares about M4A over defeating Trump, they would have voted for it. Anything that distracts from beating Trump is going against the will of the people, IMO.

I understand what the thread is saying though. I support Bernie staying in for the next debate and putting Joe through his paces. I just think staying until the convention is pointless.

Let's see what happens on Sunday night. Biden surge over the past two weeks came from out of the blue and for very specific reason. Biden will never generate the type of excitement needed to defeat Trump, just like Hillary.

There is no doubt that people want a M4A system. The exit polls and every other poll supports that. Bernie's policies are more heavily supported than Biden's. But if you have an argument to the contrary, I'd love to read it.

En garde

I'm not arguing that people don't prefer Bernie's policies to Biden's.

I'm saying that nobody but Bernie's base truly cares about policy in this election.

I think the voting totals more than makes that case

[Stannis]

I'm saying that nobody but Bernie's base truly cares about policy in this election.

I think the voting totals more than makes that case

I'm not doubting this, but what are most people voting on if not policy?

Again, I think you are right. If everyone cared about policy, I think Bernie would be winning and Warren would have instantly endorsed Bernie.

I just don't understand what other motives there are other than policy (for me at least).

Is it just about:
First, who can beat Trump?
Two, who is more likable?
Three, policy?

EDIT: Grammatical errors

[GONYK]

I'm saying that nobody but Bernie's base truly cares about policy in this election.

I think the voting totals more than makes that case

I'm not doubting this, but what are most people voting on if policy?

Again, I think you are right. If everyone cared about policy, Warren would have instantly endorsed Bernie.

I just don't understand what other motives there are other than policy (for me at least).

Is it just about:
First, who can beat Trump?
Two, who is more likable?
Three, policy?

Pretty much.

I don't even care about likeability either.

Visual representation of my priorities this election.

1. Beating Trump



2. Everything else

[GONYK]

Trump is hitting the air in 10 mins to declare a national emergency

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Stannis]

1. Beating Trump

Spoiler:

2. Everything else

haha! I feel ya. I think beating Trump is my #1 priority too.

I'll try to make this my last political post, as I have derailed enough. Apologies in advance. But here is my issue on running on just "Beating Trump".

I know probably nobody here likes Jill Stein, but she has been on twitter fire lately. Here's her recent one:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

That's what I fear. We might beat Trump, but we won't kill that movement. If Biden doesn't live up to anything (and it's possible he doesn't), we could see a even worse President in 2024. Whether we like to admit it or not, there's a large population Trump speaks to.

[Stannis]

Living in the Bible belt and listening to these people trying to stay calm by saying "more people die of the flu than Coronavirus". They are only saying it because they know it hurts re-election. I know it seems unfair, but we shouldn't be joking about this or labeling it as some sort of scare tactic/hoax.

We should learn from Rudy Gobert.

[Clyde_Style]

1. Beating Trump

Spoiler:

2. Everything else

haha!

I'll try to make this my last political post, as I have derailed enough. Apologies in advance. But here is my issue on running on just "Beating Trump".

I know probably nobody here likes Jill Stein, but she has been on twitter fire lately. Here's her recent one:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

That's what I fear. We might beat Trump, but we won't kill that movement. If Biden doesn't live up to anything (and it's possible he doesn't), we could see a even worse President in 2024. Whether we like to admit it or not, there's a large population Trump speaks to.

Jill Stein is a complete fraud. Do your homework

[Stannis]

Most worrying thing to me is the unknown percentage of us that actually have the coronavirus.

If you look at all the athletes and celebrities getting tested positive... They have the money and privilege to probably get an test. And it seems like every hour, a new one is tested positive

But what about regular folks? We aren't getting tested as frequently as them.

Scary...

I hate to get into conspiracy territory here, but something tells me they aren't going to be doing test and releasing test kits in large numbers so soon, since it will only increase panic.

Would anybody even know where you can get tested without being turned away and/or being viewed a hypochondriac?

[GONYK]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

And the deflection of responsibility continues.

[Dubious Handles]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

And the deflection of responsibility continues.

here comes the CCP damage control. **** them

[Clyde_Style]

Most worrying thing to me is the unknown percentage of us that actually have the coronavirus.

If you look at all the athletes and celebrities getting tested positive... They have the money and privilege to probably get an test. And it seems like every hour, a new one is tested positive

But what about regular folks? We aren't getting tested as frequently as them.

Scary...

I hate to get into conspiracy territory here, but something tells me they aren't going to be doing test and releasing test kits in large numbers so soon, since it will only increase panic.

Would anybody even know where you can get tested without being turned away and/or being viewed a hypochondriac?

It looks like the mandate of your state may enter into it so you have to see what local policies are. NY and FL have had state level responses to determine who can get a test. Right now, it looks like availability is limited everywhere though

[Zenzibar]

Heard from an NY police officer that NYS is going to locked down within the next 48 hrs. Meaning no one will be allowed outside, transit down, etc.
Get your supplies today fam.

[Zenzibar]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

And the deflection of responsibility continues.

So it's not possible?

[nedleeds]

Living in the Bible belt and listening to these people trying to stay calm by saying "more people die of the flu than Coronavirus". They are only saying it because they know it hurts re-election. I know it seems unfair, but we shouldn't be joking about this or labeling it as some sort of scare tactic/hoax.

We should learn from Rudy Gobert.

The naysayers will say Rudy Gobert, played, shared numerous flights, a locker room and rubbed himself all over the Jazz and only 1 other player was infected.

Some people are trying to stay calm because flipping out does nothing if there is not enough ICU capacity, N95 masks and other supplies anyway. What good would mask panic do? Reinforcing massive social distancing, personal commitment to sanitization and isolation is what is needed. Trump thus far has done an awful job promoting this.

[movingon]

? Reinforcing massive social distancing, personal commitment to sanitization and isolation is what is needed. Trump thus far has done an awful job promoting this.

This is the message being transmitted everywhere else in the world. It's completely absurd that they're not emphasizing this in the US.

[j4remi]

I agree with you. I just don't think anyone cares about the long-term right now. Beating Trump is all that matters. Anything that does not lead directly to the maximization of that possibility is on the backburner.

While Millenials, Gen Z, Latin voters, and Independents are important their numbers haven't matched up to the black and moderate coalition. Where was Bernie's Latin and independent vote in Texas?

If you're only concerned with winning right now and have no long term strategy, more power to you. I've been a progressive since Occupy Wall Street, so my approach to politics has always been results oriented. Understand that we had no infrastructure for electoral politics for most of that span. Activism was a bigger driver of results. But with Bernie's success, the infrastructure only began to be laid and I'm not speaking figuratively. The DNC literally threatened to blacklist any consultants that helped progressives run against incumbents this election cycle. We've had to create our own parallel structures to even have a shot. So it's never been about one election for most of us in the progressive movement. That's the crux of "not me, us."

To the comment on Latin, Independent and Young voters not matching up to the black and moderate coalition; like I said, they won't overtake that coalition in numbers until the next cycle begins. In Texas though Bernie smoked Biden with Latino voters 45 to 24 and if that stands, then Bernie building an infrastructure to push Latin voters toward progressive goals could translate to a winner next election and I think Texas' chances of becoming purple hinge on those Latin voters.

There was no clear lane for Warren to run in, so she got squeezed out. Especially since Bernie is the top dog with the progressives.

This is a bit revisionist. There was a period where Bernie was being asked to drop out and back Warren. Warren briefly moved into a neck and neck run with Biden while Bernie dipped. The Squad endorsements and proof he was healthy combined with Warren's M4A details not adding up are when she started getting squeezed out. She had a shot, she released a more moderate M4A proposal and moderates left her for Pete while progressives left for Bernie.

So Bernie won Iowa and NH, which are some of the least representative states, demographically, you will find. Nevada was a solid win, but once again, it's hard to gauge a Democrat in an election without black representation.

Since Nevada, Bernie has been getting his teeth kicked in. Warren is only slightly less successful than Bernie in the big scheme of things when we look at the big picture.

So Bernie won the first three states which is something that has never happened in history. Again, black voters choosing Biden over Bernie does not mean they don't like Bernie. It's hard to gauge anyone when a single candidate can ride Obama's legacy to easy victories with black voters. Let's be clear, Biden didn't even have an infrastructure in some of these states and coasted off endorsements and legacy despite his own past being filled with decisions that had a negative impact on all people of color. From his banking bill to his crime bill to being friendly with segregationists and bragging about it.

That Warren comment is a wild reach. Warren dropped out with 71 delegates, Bernie has 725. Biden has 880. There are still around 100 unrewarded delegates from states that have already voted and the majority of those are from states that Bernie won (including California). Bernie and Warren aren't in the same stratosphere here and the reason Bernie is getting buried is because of Southern Republican voting states that he dominates (ie: Florida). But if you were to look at the states that actually matter for Democrats winning...Bernie is right there in the conversation.

I think your question is a little more complex. Pete could never endorse Bernie, because their platforms are not compatible. Pete ran as moderate. Progressives said he was basically a Republican. Plus he had the Wall St ties. There isn't space in the Bernie coalition for a Pete endorsement.

Biden ran on a platform that inherently appeals to a broader base, so he is able to credibly receive more endorsements.

This doesn't really address my point. Namely that Biden didn't kick Bernie in the teeth off of his own popularity. It took other candidates pushing their supporters toward Biden to get that edge. The endorsements played a key role in Biden winning. As a matter of fact, if Warren drops out and does the same thing at the same time, Bernie likely wins Super Tuesday and this conversation is completely different.

I agree that a vote for Biden is not a condemnation for Bernie, or at least what Bernie stands for. I would vote for Bernie. I just think it's a meaningless distinction in this election. Most voters care about one thing, and have resoundingly voiced who they believe can get it done. Being everyone's second choice in a 2 man race isn't the same as having support.

No, no, no; Bernie was the majority favorite in a 10 man race and then again in a 4 man race. It took 2 dropping out and throwing their support to Biden while the third ate away at Bernie's support for Joe Biden to become the resounding choice. This is literally what all polling said leading into this. To assume that if it were a 2 man race all along the discussion would be exactly the same is massively flawed. People wouldn't be concerned about Bernie sticking in the race if Biden's support wasn't mostly soft support that isn't ideologically based.

Honest question, do you think he will spurn progressives with his VP choice or give them an olive branch here? My money is on olive branch.

Highly doubtful, especially if he only intends to be in there for one term. He'll likely target someone to sure up a purple state win. Hillary had that opportunity too and passed as well...and I think she's an infinitely better politician strategically. I'll be happy to be proven wrong but I'm not holding my breath.

Let me be more precise. Maybe people don't actively dislike him, but outside of his base, people don't seem to actively like him either. More importantly, more people seem to actively like Biden more than Bernie.

But again, Biden doesn't become more popular than Bernie until a collective of leaders who all built their own followings send their support to Biden at the zero hour. Prior to that and for a five year span, Bernie was literally the most well liked politician in the country according to favorability measures. The lack of Warren endorsement was the backbreaker. Moderates coalesced, Warren held out to try and build more leverage which hurt both progressives.

[Clyde_Style]

I think Trump is going to die. He looks sick as hell. Both him and Pence were exposed and they both refused to get tested.

I'm guessing he's not going to make it to November

Just a hunch, but I think he's the very example of the kind of host this virus strikes down

[Deeeez Knicks]

Take a drink everytime someone handshakes or touches their face, the microphone, etc at the press conference