Nets Going Forward: Planning for Next Season

[ProspectPark]

@DarkXaero

Imagine you have this electrifying player that can score 50 at the drop of a hat. A legitimate top 15 player. Then you have another former all-star point guard whose coming off an injury but you still hope will be effective when he comes back. You also have some really interesting young players like Bryant, Hachimura, Brown Jr. and one of the best 3 point shooters in the league in Davis Bertrans who you are hoping to re-sign.

So if you have all that to look forward to next season, do you really think the Wizards want to trade away their best player for some inconsistent role players who are overpaid? Levert and Prince aren’t even that young.

No one is trading a top 15 player on a great contract for some role players.

I addressed a lot of this in my post. Wizards best case ceiling with Wall & Beal is 7th/8th seed. You can compare their roster to the other playoffs teams in the East, and they're likely 8th in the East, competing with teams like Magic and Hawks.

And yes, Levert and Prince aren't that young, but Levert still has good upside. 6'7" guys with handles who can score, pass, and are good athletes with a strong work ethic will always be seen as a valuable commodity. Levert has his obvious deficiencies, but the talent is there, it's a matter of consistency and staying healthy. Prince is a solid role player at best, but he needs to be in a functioning team to perform. He's also a 6'8" wing with a good 3pt shot, and the tools to defend, so contrary to what we think, teams will see value in him. And like I said, at worst, he's a neutral asset to match salaries, his contract is only two more seasons.

Aside from Rui, none of those Wizards pieces you mentioned are all that valuable. Thomas Bryant isn't really a starter in this league with his awful defense. Troy Brown Jr. can be a solid piece, but he has yet to show much. Bertans is an unrestricted FA in the summer, and not a good starter level player to begin with. This Wizards team with Wall back, even if they could retain Bertans, add a solid lotto pick in the summer, they'll struggle to make the playoffs. Hawks are uptrending, and their young pieces will improve next season (in addition to adding a lotto pick, just like the Wiz). And the Magic are still there to fight for the 8th seed.

The way I see it, the offer is one very good young player with solid, safe upside (Allen), one mid 20s player with high upside/high risk (Levert), one neutral asset (Prince), and 3 first round picks + 2nd (one of which will be a pick right outside lotto, the other around #20, and then our pick protected in 2022). The offer can be improved to add more on top of all that, but it's a strong foundation for an offer.

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[DarkXaero]

Out of curiosity why do you think Rui's ceiling isnt that high, but think levert has upside When Rui is bigger, younger, more athletic, and at 21 is having a better season than levert at 25? I get levert missed time in the pros and college, so he isnt as experienced as most 25 year olds but i dont really view that as a positive thing or something to make me think he is likely to improve. Injuries 3 years in college and 3 years in the pros starts to eventually become a red flag and not a setback.

I think Rui will be a very good NBA starter, but I don't see him having an all star ceiling, because of skillset. I also don't know if he's a better athlete than Caris, I think Caris is a better athlete relative to his position than Rui. I think it's very likely at this point that Rui will end up having a better pro career than Caris. Rui has the higher floor, but lower ceiling, while Caris has a low floor and higher ceiling. Levert is a legit 6'7" athlete who is very comfortable handling the ball who can pass, score in a variety of ways, has improved his 3pt shot to above average, and has tools to be a really good defender. Now obviously that is something we haven't seen come together, due to injuries and a lack of consistency on his own part. But the talent is clearly there if he one day figures out. It wouldn't shock me at all if we trade him and he turns into a 20/5/5 player on another team with average efficiency and average defense.

Clippers dealt 5 picks (3 and 2 pick swaps) and also included included SGA, who is a better younger prospect than levert and on top of that PG also kind of was forcing his way to the clips.

as you mentioned lakers better picks but for a better player. (although beal is no slouch).

The thing is why would they take our picks when so many teams have better picks?

Clippers had to trade all that away because getting PG also meant getting Kawhi. With no PG, they don't get Kawhi. So from their point of view, in a way it was about giving up assets for two superstars. Also I know that you hate PG with a passion, but he was coming off a year where he finished top 3 in MVP voting, made All NBA first team, and All First Defense team. Beal simply ain't at that level and I don't see him reaching that level. For all his scoring outbursts, he actually ranks as one of the very worst defenders in the NBA this season. I think Beal is capable of good defense, and has sacrificed it in order to get his numbers, but you can't discount that fact.

I think you could get Lavine and a top 5 protected pick from the bulls for beal. that blows our deal out of the water. atlanta could offer lotto picks and some young pieces AND take on bad salary. The blazers dont have alot of flexibility, trying their luck with beal instead of mccollum is the perfect more for them... its that or move on from lillard and rebuild.

i just dont see why the wiz would make the deal with us. no all-star prospects and no lotto picks. they'd be better off playing out his deal and hoping he doesnt walk

Lavine and a lotto pick would be a great offer to start off with for Beal, but I don't know if Bulls make that kind of move. Lavine is averaging numbers somewhat similar to Beal, and is two years younger. I don't know what getting Beal achieves for them, they would be maybe slightly better than what they are now. As for Blazers, I think Beal + Dame works if you have a deep roster or a roster of good role players around them. But considering that they'll be losing roster depth in a potential trade for Beal, I don't know if it's worth it for them. Perhaps you're right though, I could see Portland making that type of offer.

All of this Beal talk could be pointless anyway, because Beal just came out and said this:

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?s=20

This indirectly contradicts him bitching about losing last month, but if this is the way he feels, then I guess he won't be asking out. Dude can't seem to figure out whether he wants his own team or if he wants to win. But he thinks he's good enough to have his own team (he's not), and if that is the case, then there's no point of entertaining a big 3 idea with KD/Kyrie/Beal.

[DarkXaero]

@DarkXaero

Imagine you have this electrifying player that can score 50 at the drop of a hat. A legitimate top 15 player. Then you have another former all-star point guard whose coming off an injury but you still hope will be effective when he comes back. You also have some really interesting young players like Bryant, Hachimura, Brown Jr. and one of the best 3 point shooters in the league in Davis Bertrans who you are hoping to re-sign.

So if you have all that to look forward to next season, do you really think the Wizards want to trade away their best player for some inconsistent role players who are overpaid? Levert and Prince aren’t even that young.

No one is trading a top 15 player on a great contract for some role players.

I addressed a lot of this in my post. Wizards best case ceiling with Wall & Beal is 7th/8th seed. You can compare their roster to the other playoffs teams in the East, and they're likely 8th in the East, competing with teams like Magic and Hawks.

And yes, Levert and Prince aren't that young, but Levert still has good upside. 6'7" guys with handles who can score, pass, and are good athletes with a strong work ethic will always be seen as a valuable commodity. Levert has his obvious deficiencies, but the talent is there, it's a matter of consistency and staying healthy. Prince is a solid role player at best, but he needs to be in a functioning team to perform. He's also a 6'8" wing with a good 3pt shot, and the tools to defend, so contrary to what we think, teams will see value in him. And like I said, at worst, he's a neutral asset to match salaries, his contract is only two more seasons.

Aside from Rui, none of those Wizards pieces you mentioned are all that valuable. Thomas Bryant isn't really a starter in this league with his awful defense. Troy Brown Jr. can be a solid piece, but he has yet to show much. Bertans is an unrestricted FA in the summer, and not a good starter level player to begin with. This Wizards team with Wall back, even if they could retain Bertans, add a solid lotto pick in the summer, they'll struggle to make the playoffs. Hawks are uptrending, and their young pieces will improve next season (in addition to adding a lotto pick, just like the Wiz). And the Magic are still there to fight for the 8th seed.

The way I see it, the offer is one very good young player with solid, safe upside (Allen), one mid 20s player with high upside/high risk (Levert), one neutral asset (Prince), and 3 first round picks + 2nd (one of which will be a pick right outside lotto, the other around #20, and then our pick protected in 2022). The offer can be improved to add more on top of all that, but it's a strong foundation for an offer.

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Yeah, I already saw and addressed it in the other post. I don't want a guy who thinks he's too good, and won't adapt to playing with players who are better than him. So we can forget about all this and move on.

[vincecarter4pres]

Who says no?

Brooklyn sends:
Spencer Dinwiddie
Taureen Prince
Musa
1st round pick if necessary

Phoenix sends:
Ricky Rubio
Frank Kaminsky

Mikal Bridges

or

Kelly Oubre

[ecuhus1981]

Who says no?

Brooklyn sends:
Spencer Dinwiddie
Taureen Prince
Musa
1st round pick if necessary

Phoenix sends:
Ricky Rubio
Frank Kaminsky

Mikal Bridges

or

Kelly Oubre

Instant no from me for the Nets, even with Bridges. Rubio is decent, but I'm just not going in that direction, IF we trade Spencer. I could see us moving Dinwiddie in order to offload Prince, but only for a true star starter who makes sense next to K&K.

[DarkXaero]

Who says no?

Brooklyn sends:
Spencer Dinwiddie
Taureen Prince
Musa
1st round pick if necessary

Phoenix sends:
Ricky Rubio
Frank Kaminsky

Mikal Bridges

or

Kelly Oubre

Probably both teams. I feel like if we trade Dinwiddie, we'll likely target a single, more established player at a different position. Phoenix will be very reluctant to trade Mikal Bridges, and rightfully so.

[MrDollarBills]

So, what do we do with Jarrett Allen?

He has one year left before he hits restricted free agency. Unlike other folks I haven't given up on him as a player, I think he's still going to be an excellent pro, but the problem is to keep the peace DeAndre Jordan has to be the starter (some culture, huh?). Do we package him now in order get another impact player or do we hold onto him?

The reason why I bring up the option of holding onto him is because DeAndre is 32 this year, next year he'll be 33. How long do we expect to get what we're getting out of him now?

Unless the thought process is that Nic Claxton could be the one kept and can play back up center full time, what should we do here?

Personally, I package him with Prince and a 1st rd pick and try to see what we can get since the direction has become clear. Allen will most likely get a substantial contract once he hits restricted free agency so there's no point in keeping him around if he's going to just play 19 mins a night, which lowers his value.

[ProspectPark]

Who says no?

Brooklyn sends:
Spencer Dinwiddie
Taureen Prince
Musa
1st round pick if necessary

Phoenix sends:
Ricky Rubio
Frank Kaminsky

Mikal Bridges

or

Kelly Oubre

Instant no from me for the Nets, even with Bridges. Rubio is decent, but I'm just not going in that direction, IF we trade Spencer. I could see us moving Dinwiddie in order to offload Prince, but only for a true star starter who makes sense next to K&K.

If you look at the On/Off numbers, Prince has been one of our best players.

Even against the Lakers, when his shot wasn’t falling, his Net Rating was the highest on the team for anyone who played over 27 minutes.

https://on.nba.com/33cws8M (against LAL)

https://on.nba.com/2HypHUC (On/Off for the season)

My point is I don’t think he’s been as bad as a lot of people think. I would love to see him next season when he’ll get more wide open looks.

[TheNetsFan]

So, what do we do with Jarrett Allen?

He has one year left before he hits restricted free agency. Unlike other folks I haven't given up on him as a player, I think he's still going to be an excellent pro, but the problem is to keep the peace DeAndre Jordan has to be the starter (some culture, huh?). Do we package him now in order get another impact player or do we hold onto him?

The reason why I bring up the option of holding onto him is because DeAndre is 32 this year, next year he'll be 33. How long do we expect to get what we're getting out of him now?

Unless the thought process is that Nic Claxton could be the one kept and can play back up center full time, what should we do here?

Personally, I package him with Prince and a 1st rd pick and try to see what we can get since the direction has become clear. Allen will most likely get a substantial contract once he hits restricted free agency so there's no point in keeping him around if he's going to just play 19 mins a night, which lowers his value.

I would only deal him if it's in a package for another star. Marks can give the KD quartet one go their way next year. If Jordan deteriorates or the group fails, then Marks can explore moving DJ.

[MrDollarBills]

So, what do we do with Jarrett Allen?

He has one year left before he hits restricted free agency. Unlike other folks I haven't given up on him as a player, I think he's still going to be an excellent pro, but the problem is to keep the peace DeAndre Jordan has to be the starter (some culture, huh?). Do we package him now in order get another impact player or do we hold onto him?

The reason why I bring up the option of holding onto him is because DeAndre is 32 this year, next year he'll be 33. How long do we expect to get what we're getting out of him now?

Unless the thought process is that Nic Claxton could be the one kept and can play back up center full time, what should we do here?

Personally, I package him with Prince and a 1st rd pick and try to see what we can get since the direction has become clear. Allen will most likely get a substantial contract once he hits restricted free agency so there's no point in keeping him around if he's going to just play 19 mins a night, which lowers his value.

I would only deal him if it's in a package for another star. Marks can give the KD quartet one go their way next year. If Jordan deteriorates or the group fails, then Marks can explore moving DJ.

And risk angering the franchise players?

[TheNetsFan]

So, what do we do with Jarrett Allen?

He has one year left before he hits restricted free agency. Unlike other folks I haven't given up on him as a player, I think he's still going to be an excellent pro, but the problem is to keep the peace DeAndre Jordan has to be the starter (some culture, huh?). Do we package him now in order get another impact player or do we hold onto him?

The reason why I bring up the option of holding onto him is because DeAndre is 32 this year, next year he'll be 33. How long do we expect to get what we're getting out of him now?

Unless the thought process is that Nic Claxton could be the one kept and can play back up center full time, what should we do here?

Personally, I package him with Prince and a 1st rd pick and try to see what we can get since the direction has become clear. Allen will most likely get a substantial contract once he hits restricted free agency so there's no point in keeping him around if he's going to just play 19 mins a night, which lowers his value.

I would only deal him if it's in a package for another star. Marks can give the KD quartet one go their way next year. If Jordan deteriorates or the group fails, then Marks can explore moving DJ.

And risk angering the franchise players?

At that point, we’re at or beyond halfway through KD’s contract, and he’ll be closing in on his 33rd birthday. It’s not like we should be worried about giving him a max extension.

[vincecarter4pres]

So I have to do it...

Brooklyn sends:
Caris LeVert
Jarrett Allen
Dzanan Musa
Taureen Prince

Utah sends:
Rudy Gobert
Royce O'Neale

[MrDollarBills]

So I have to do it...

Brooklyn sends:
Caris LeVert
Jarrett Allen
Dzanan Musa
Taureen Prince

Utah sends:
Rudy Gobert
Royce O'Neale

[MrDollarBills]

So when league business resumes, is Sean Marks signing Chiozza and cutting Theo or what? We need Cheese in the playoffs.

[GTR11]

So when league business resumes, is Sean Marks signing Chiozza and cutting Theo or what? We need Cheese in the playoffs.

I love your optimistic view but it's over for 2019/20 season. I'm more concerned about how many games we going to miss next year.

[therealbig3]

Something just doesn't feel right about looking to trade a 21 year old C who's a solid defender, a nightly double double, and is a constant threat as a rim runner. Like, those kinds of players are who you build title contenders with, not trade away.

He's the 21 year old version of Clint Capela and Tyson Chandler. AKA guys who have been super valuable players on contenders.

[MrDollarBills]

So when league business resumes, is Sean Marks signing Chiozza and cutting Theo or what? We need Cheese in the playoffs.

I love your optimistic view but it's over for 2019/20 season. I'm more concerned about how many games we going to miss next year.

No argument here.

[MrDollarBills]

Something just doesn't feel right about looking to trade a 21 year old C who's a solid defender, a nightly double double, and is a constant threat as a rim runner. Like, those kinds of players are who you build title contenders with, not trade away.

He's the 21 year old version of Clint Capela and Tyson Chandler. AKA guys who have been super valuable players on contenders.

I agree, but then I look at guys like Christian Wood from Detroit who tested positive for the coronavirus (he doesn't have any symptoms so he's fine, but please keep the other people he may have infected unknowingly in your thoughts), and I see a 6'10 big with long arms that can score from inside, outside (56/40/73 as a starter, 66%TS 23 per for 22pg 9rpg 2ast per game) and I'm thinking that we may need Jarrett Allen to either expand his game or for Nic Claxton to improve a bit.

I honestly can't call it regarding the center position, but Jordan isn't going to get any better and we need one of these two young guys to separate themselves from the pack.

[Prokorov]

So when league business resumes, is Sean Marks signing Chiozza and cutting Theo or what? We need Cheese in the playoffs.

dump musa. both suck, but pinson is a good cheerleader

[DarkXaero]

Something just doesn't feel right about looking to trade a 21 year old C who's a solid defender, a nightly double double, and is a constant threat as a rim runner. Like, those kinds of players are who you build title contenders with, not trade away.

He's the 21 year old version of Clint Capela and Tyson Chandler. AKA guys who have been super valuable players on contenders.

Because he's very inconsistent in every aspect of his game. His defense can be really, really good, but even that suffers from inconsistency often. It's not a physical limitation, it's a mental thing, and perhaps with more experience, he'll eventually get there. The problem is that our window isn't that long and it's really about the next two seasons for us. We can't rely on an inconsistent, young starter with obvious limitations in his game. He can't stretch the floor at all, his touch in the paint is subpar, he can pass at a very basic level, and struggles to make clever reads with the ball on top of the key. Then there are nights where he'll barely have any rebounds.

So yeah, while he can one day end up becoming a Clint Capela type C (with consistency), and maybe prime Tyson Chandler as his best case scenario. But I don't see that happening anytime soon, and while we can't get rid of DJ, we can have another C who can stretch the floor or offer us something different from what DJ does.