OT: Democratic Primary Thread

[Clyde_Style]

Biden is corrupt trash. He is a part of the established corruption that plagues our govt. He's proven to be a flip flopping liar and an azzhole.

Bernie is rambling old man with poor communication skills. He just repeats the same things over and over. The same things He's been saying for decades. He blew it when he endorsed Shillary while the country knew they rigged the primaries against him. He lost a ton of support because of that.

Of the 2...Bernie is this only one who cares about the citizens of this country. Too bad he's 900 years old and refuses to really fight the good fight. He'll bow down to the DNC like last time and everything he's campaigning for will be ignored again.

Get ready for Trump vs Biden and 4 more years of the Orangutan Republic.

Regardless of your sentiments, the reality is much closer to an outcome where Biden beats Trump in a landslide by a spread of 15-20%. This is shaping up to be a wipeout on the order of LBJ vs. Goldwater.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Biden is corrupt trash. He is a part of the established corruption that plagues our govt. He's proven to be a flip flopping liar and an azzhole.

Bernie is rambling old man with poor communication skills. He just repeats the same things over and over. The same things He's been saying for decades. He blew it when he endorsed Shillary while the country knew they rigged the primaries against him. He lost a ton of support because of that.

Of the 2...Bernie is this only one who cares about the citizens of this country. Too bad he's 900 years old and refuses to really fight the good fight. He'll bow down to the DNC like last time and everything he's campaigning for will be ignored again.

Get ready for Trump vs Biden and 4 more years of the Orangutan Republic.

Regardless of your sentiments, the reality is much closer to an outcome where Biden beats Trump in a landslide by a spread of 15-20%. This is shaping up to be a wipeout on the order of LBJ vs. Goldwater.

I don't see it. The Democratic voting base is fractured. I see/hear Bernie vs Biden arguments everywhere. Then I see people on the must beat Trump train...trying to convince the BvB crowd to stick together no matter what.

The DNC has done too many shady things...for all to see...that have damaged the confidence of its base. These last 2 election cycles have shown this.

I don't see a clear path to victory and...Bernie will get the younger voters from what I see. Biden will get the Shillary vote...and...that didn't work last time.

I'm not sure why people are convinced he can win.

[Clyde_Style]

Biden is corrupt trash. He is a part of the established corruption that plagues our govt. He's proven to be a flip flopping liar and an azzhole.

Bernie is rambling old man with poor communication skills. He just repeats the same things over and over. The same things He's been saying for decades. He blew it when he endorsed Shillary while the country knew they rigged the primaries against him. He lost a ton of support because of that.

Of the 2...Bernie is this only one who cares about the citizens of this country. Too bad he's 900 years old and refuses to really fight the good fight. He'll bow down to the DNC like last time and everything he's campaigning for will be ignored again.

Get ready for Trump vs Biden and 4 more years of the Orangutan Republic.

Regardless of your sentiments, the reality is much closer to an outcome where Biden beats Trump in a landslide by a spread of 15-20%. This is shaping up to be a wipeout on the order of LBJ vs. Goldwater.

I don't see it. The Democratic voting base is fractured. I see/hear Bernie vs Biden arguments everywhere. Then I see people on the must beat Trump train...trying to convince the BvB crowd to stick together no matter what.

The DNC has done too many shady things...for all to see...that have damaged the confidence of its base. These last 2 election cycles have shown this.

I don't see a clear path to victory and...Bernie will get the younger voters from what I see. Biden will get the Shillary vote...and...that didn't work last time.

I'm not sure why people are convinced he can win.

The shady DNC and all those kinds of opinions has squat to do with the outcome. You're projecting your feelings on to the electoral map and that has nothing to do with the political reality we are dealing with right now. If you were able to look at the scenario without all of this resentment and recrimination you'd see the odds for a Democratic landslide are growing daily now.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Regardless of your sentiments, the reality is much closer to an outcome where Biden beats Trump in a landslide by a spread of 15-20%. This is shaping up to be a wipeout on the order of LBJ vs. Goldwater.

I don't see it. The Democratic voting base is fractured. I see/hear Bernie vs Biden arguments everywhere. Then I see people on the must beat Trump train...trying to convince the BvB crowd to stick together no matter what.

The DNC has done too many shady things...for all to see...that have damaged the confidence of its base. These last 2 election cycles have shown this.

I don't see a clear path to victory and...Bernie will get the younger voters from what I see. Biden will get the Shillary vote...and...that didn't work last time.

I'm not sure why people are convinced he can win.

The shady DNC and all those kinds of opinions has squat to do with the outcome. You're projecting your feelings on to the electoral map and that has nothing to do with the political reality we are dealing with right now. If you were able to look at the scenario without all of this resentment and recrimination you'd see the odds for a Democratic landslide are growing daily now.

I'm sorry but...I presented facts and scenarios that I have witnessed personally. You have not given a single reason for your feelings. Biden is not going to unify the dem voting base any more than Shillary did. That's my opinion. I have given the basis of what formed that opinion.

What makes you think Biden is a lock?

[Clyde_Style]

My hunch is Klobuchar will be tapped as the VP

That basically covers the map. Biden competes in the South already and will beat Trump on the coasts. Amy makes him stronger in the middle of the country. Harris does not give him that leverage.

I'm guessing Harris is either going to head the Justice Dept. or be tapped for the Supreme Court

And please spare us the diatribes about the crooked establishment folks. I'm just discussing strategy here, not your likes and dislikes.

[Clyde_Style]

I don't see it. The Democratic voting base is fractured. I see/hear Bernie vs Biden arguments everywhere. Then I see people on the must beat Trump train...trying to convince the BvB crowd to stick together no matter what.

The DNC has done too many shady things...for all to see...that have damaged the confidence of its base. These last 2 election cycles have shown this.

I don't see a clear path to victory and...Bernie will get the younger voters from what I see. Biden will get the Shillary vote...and...that didn't work last time.

I'm not sure why people are convinced he can win.

The shady DNC and all those kinds of opinions has squat to do with the outcome. You're projecting your feelings on to the electoral map and that has nothing to do with the political reality we are dealing with right now. If you were able to look at the scenario without all of this resentment and recrimination you'd see the odds for a Democratic landslide are growing daily now.

I'm sorry but...I presented facts and scenarios that I have witnessed personally. You have not given a single reason for your feelings. Biden is not going to unify the dem voting base any more than Shillary did. That's my opinion. I have given the basis of what formed that opinion.

What makes you think Biden is a lock?

Your feelings are not facts.

And as far as sticking together, I made it very clear I'd vote for Bernie if he were the nominee and far more people are like me, not you.

[Stannis]

Biden is corrupt trash. He is a part of the established corruption that plagues our govt. He's proven to be a flip flopping liar and an azzhole.

Bernie is rambling old man with poor communication skills. He just repeats the same things over and over. The same things He's been saying for decades. He blew it when he endorsed Shillary while the country knew they rigged the primaries against him. He lost a ton of support because of that.

Of the 2...Bernie is this only one who cares about the citizens of this country. Too bad he's 900 years old and refuses to really fight the good fight. He'll bow down to the DNC like last time and everything he's campaigning for will be ignored again.

Get ready for Trump vs Biden and 4 more years of the Orangutan Republic.

While, I am not the biggest fan of the establishment. They have still given progressives like Bernie a platform.

I keep hearing how Bernie screwed up by endorsing Hillary. But it's a 2 party system. If he didn't endorse, and made his own party, all that would do is guarantee a GOP president for the next 16 years. That's why Fox News and the right always try to push Bernie into thinking "he got screwed; if he had a spine, he would run as a third party" etc.

I think what Bernie is doing is fine. Sooner or later, progressives will take over the DNC if we get more Bernies. We just have to keep fighting.

Right now, we just have to make sure he stays in the race for one more debate at least.

[Jalen Bluntson]

The shady DNC and all those kinds of opinions has squat to do with the outcome. You're projecting your feelings on to the electoral map and that has nothing to do with the political reality we are dealing with right now. If you were able to look at the scenario without all of this resentment and recrimination you'd see the odds for a Democratic landslide are growing daily now.

I'm sorry but...I presented facts and scenarios that I have witnessed personally. You have not given a single reason for your feelings. Biden is not going to unify the dem voting base any more than Shillary did. That's my opinion. I have given the basis of what formed that opinion.

What makes you think Biden is a lock?

Your feelings are not facts.

And as far as sticking together, I made it very clear I'd vote for Bernie if he were the nominee and far more people are like me, not you.

Fact...there is a divide in the dem voting base.

Fact...Joe Biden is a flip flopping azzhole.

Fact...the DNC has shown that it rigs primaries...and nominations.

Fact...you have done nothing more than use your feelings as fact.

Seriously...Amy Klobuchar is the key to the WH?

[Clyde_Style]

Biden is corrupt trash. He is a part of the established corruption that plagues our govt. He's proven to be a flip flopping liar and an azzhole.

Bernie is rambling old man with poor communication skills. He just repeats the same things over and over. The same things He's been saying for decades. He blew it when he endorsed Shillary while the country knew they rigged the primaries against him. He lost a ton of support because of that.

Of the 2...Bernie is this only one who cares about the citizens of this country. Too bad he's 900 years old and refuses to really fight the good fight. He'll bow down to the DNC like last time and everything he's campaigning for will be ignored again.

Get ready for Trump vs Biden and 4 more years of the Orangutan Republic.

While, I am not the biggest fan of the establishment. They have still given progressives like Bernie a platform.

I keep hearing how Bernie screwed up by endorsing Hillary. But it's a 2 party system. If he didn't endorse, and made his own party, all that would do is guarantee a GOP president for the next 16 years. That's why Fox News and the right always try to push Bernie into thinking "he got screwed; if he had a spine, he would run as a third party" etc.

I think what Bernie is doing is fine. Sooner or later, progressives will take over the DNC if we get more Bernies. We just have to keep fighting.

Right now, we just have to make sure he stays in the race for one more debate at least.

Good points Stannis.

Bernie and Liz have pushed their agendas successfully. In a two-party system, even if you don't get to lead THAT IS THE POINT, to get things moving in the right direction. All or nothing arguments about the DNC leaves people with two choices: Work with the DNC to reform it in the direction you want it to go or run as an independent. That's why I find most complaints about Bernie getting railroaded to be flimsy. You want a revolution? Then start your own damn party and grow it over the next 20 years. Otherwise, get results you can get now which is something Bernie and Liz have done regardless of what disappointments their supporters keep expressing.

There is messaging from right wing operatives that has been adopted by Bernie supporters, because the right are more advanced at sowing discord and division and they know what memes to push. Sometimes the attacks are indistinguishable between Fox and Bernie supporters. It is short-sighted and wildly immature in many instances.

Your POV is the mature one IMO. I wish everyone would stop talking about how ripped off they feel and actually deal with the reality of our situation which is dire. At this point, I believe if you presented many Bernie supporters with a choice between Bernie or a Nazi they will choose the Nazi out of spite because they didn't get what they want. This is a historical moment where we could slide irreversibly into actual fascism. The choice should be incredibly clear: Support the nominee and work with the situation to craft a better future. The only alternative is fascism.

[Marty McFly]

Yes, we all fear Biden would seek to overturn Brown vs. the Board of Education

oh no, you've convinced me his judgement hasn't always sucked! totes gonna vote for him now.

"Look, here's the deal ..." Joe lied his ass off all night, Bernie called him on it, and the mainstream media will let it all go. If Bernie told one lie (he didn't), it would've made headlines.

Did Bernie do enough to move the needle? I'm not sure. Bernie is just too nice. If I had been standing at the podium instead Bernie, I would've shredded Biden. Bernie chose not to.

Bernie needed to go scorched earth on Biden and he didn’t do that. If he got elected 3 and Half years ago we’d be much better prepared for this pandemic as a nation, but he’s probably not president right now because he’s been playing this partisan bull ****.

Joe Biden is a piece of ****. I don’t care that he’s “a good friend” of yours. That man has caused so much pain and suffering to the very people He wants to help. He’s not his friend. He’s his enemy.

[aq_ua]

Biden is corrupt trash. He is a part of the established corruption that plagues our govt. He's proven to be a flip flopping liar and an azzhole.

Bernie is rambling old man with poor communication skills. He just repeats the same things over and over. The same things He's been saying for decades. He blew it when he endorsed Shillary while the country knew they rigged the primaries against him. He lost a ton of support because of that.

Of the 2...Bernie is this only one who cares about the citizens of this country. Too bad he's 900 years old and refuses to really fight the good fight. He'll bow down to the DNC like last time and everything he's campaigning for will be ignored again.

Get ready for Trump vs Biden and 4 more years of the Orangutan Republic.

While, I am not the biggest fan of the establishment. They have still given progressives like Bernie a platform.

I keep hearing how Bernie screwed up by endorsing Hillary. But it's a 2 party system. If he didn't endorse, and made his own party, all that would do is guarantee a GOP president for the next 16 years. That's why Fox News and the right always try to push Bernie into thinking "he got screwed; if he had a spine, he would run as a third party" etc.

I think what Bernie is doing is fine. Sooner or later, progressives will take over the DNC if we get more Bernies. We just have to keep fighting.

Right now, we just have to make sure he stays in the race for one more debate at least.

I agree - it’s important Bernie try to stay in to keep the key topics on the agenda.

[Zenzibar]

Biden is corrupt trash. He is a part of the established corruption that plagues our govt. He's proven to be a flip flopping liar and an azzhole.

Bernie is rambling old man with poor communication skills. He just repeats the same things over and over. The same things He's been saying for decades. He blew it when he endorsed Shillary while the country knew they rigged the primaries against him. He lost a ton of support because of that.

Of the 2...Bernie is this only one who cares about the citizens of this country. Too bad he's 900 years old and refuses to really fight the good fight. He'll bow down to the DNC like last time and everything he's campaigning for will be ignored again.

Get ready for Trump vs Biden and 4 more years of the Orangutan Republic.

Regardless of your sentiments, the reality is much closer to an outcome where Biden beats Trump in a landslide by a spread of 15-20%. This is shaping up to be a wipeout on the order of LBJ vs. Goldwater.

Not even the majority of registered Dems are behind this dude.

[Stannis]

Good points Stannis.

Bernie and Liz have pushed their agendas successfully. In a two-party system, even if you don't get to lead THAT IS THE POINT, to get things moving in the right direction. All or nothing arguments about the DNC leaves people with two choices: Work with the DNC to reform it in the direction you want it to go or run as an independent. That's why I find most complaints about Bernie getting railroaded to be flimsy. You want a revolution? Then start your own damn party and grow it over the next 20 years. Otherwise, get results you can get now which is something Bernie and Liz have done regardless of what disappointments their supporters keep expressing.

I still feel he got railroaded tbh. Biden has been treated with kid gloves this whole campaign. And there's this narrative always being pushed that Bernie only speaks out to a white male base.

There is messaging from right wing operatives that has been adopted by Bernie supporters, because the right are more advanced at sowing discord and division and they know what memes to push. Sometimes the attacks are indistinguishable between Fox and Bernie supporters. It is short-sighted and wildly immature in many instances.

At this point, I believe if you presented many Bernie supporters with a choice between Bernie or a Nazi they will choose the Nazi out of spite because they didn't get what they want.

I don't think this is fair tbh. Especially the bold.

I feel Bernie is just a really good guy. They already tried to get dirt on him, and they really couldn't. So they dug deeper and tried to demonize his supporters. I'm not on Twitter or Social Media anymore, but I bet you can find a toxic base for any candidate.

Who was the Biden backer who said she would absolutely not vote for Bernie v Trump? Lindy Li? I felt that get swept under the rug.

Then start your own damn party and grow it over the next 20 years.

This will be one of the worst thing that can happen right now. It sounds nice, and even I am aching for a third party. But this gives too much power to the GOP. They already hold their seats hostage with voter suppression and gerrymandering. A third party will basically takes votes from the Democratic Party, essentially giving more power to the GOP. Say what you want about the GOP, but they have a much loyal/stubborn voter-base. They ain't voting third party.



All this being said, I think the primary race should keep on going till the next debate. Bernie likely won't win, but Biden will realize how important some progressive policies are to many Americans.

You think the DNC will lose the election due to some BernieOrBust exodus? All you have to do is give them a reason to vote for you, and it can't just be "I can beat Trump".

[dakomish23]

Read on Twitter

I've seen all of those videos way before this debate. It was literally breathtaking to me to hear Joe deny it. Straight out lie.

Freezing cola is a cut?

[Clyde_Style]

Good points Stannis.

Bernie and Liz have pushed their agendas successfully. In a two-party system, even if you don't get to lead THAT IS THE POINT, to get things moving in the right direction. All or nothing arguments about the DNC leaves people with two choices: Work with the DNC to reform it in the direction you want it to go or run as an independent. That's why I find most complaints about Bernie getting railroaded to be flimsy. You want a revolution? Then start your own damn party and grow it over the next 20 years. Otherwise, get results you can get now which is something Bernie and Liz have done regardless of what disappointments their supporters keep expressing.

I still feel he got railroaded tbh. Biden has been treated with kid gloves this whole campaign. And there's this narrative always being pushed that Bernie only speaks out to a white male base.

There is messaging from right wing operatives that has been adopted by Bernie supporters, because the right are more advanced at sowing discord and division and they know what memes to push. Sometimes the attacks are indistinguishable between Fox and Bernie supporters. It is short-sighted and wildly immature in many instances.

At this point, I believe if you presented many Bernie supporters with a choice between Bernie or a Nazi they will choose the Nazi out of spite because they didn't get what they want.

I don't think this is fair tbh. Especially the bold.

I feel Bernie is just a really good guy. They already tried to get dirt on him, and they really couldn't. So they dug deeper and tried to demonize his supporters. I'm not on Twitter or Social Media anymore, but I bet you can find a toxic base for any candidate.

Who was the Biden backer who said she would absolutely not vote for Bernie v Trump? Lindy Li? I felt that get swept under the rug.

Then start your own damn party and grow it over the next 20 years.

This will be one of the worst thing that can happen right now. It sounds nice, and even I am aching for a third party. But this gives too much power to the GOP. They already hold their seats hostage with voter suppression and gerrymandering. A third party will basically takes votes from the Democratic Party, essentially giving more power to the GOP. Say what you want about the GOP, but they have a much loyal/stubborn voter-base. They ain't voting third party.



All this being said, I think the primary race should keep on going till the next debate. Bernie likely won't win, but Biden will realize how important some progressive policies are to many Americans.

You think the DNC will lose the election due to some BernieOrBust exodus? All you have to do is give them a reason to vote for you, and it can't just be "I can beat Trump".

Ross Perot got 19% of the vote as an independent. I didn't vote for him and Perot would never be the alternative progressives would want now, but the political lesson there was there is a sizable swing vote that is moderate and he captured many of them across a broad spectrum of voters. A successful third party will need to take some of that middle with them to the left to win.

Even John Anderson got almost 7% of the vote in 1980 (I voted for him).

I think the demographics are ripening rapidly for support of a third party. I'm all for it. But that is not the current scenario.

And some Bernie supporters have shown themselves to be quite toxic. They're right here in this thread hurling insults and trolling so I don't know what you're talking about on this point frankly. Some of them are very bitter and say they'd rather have Trump than Biden. I consider Trump a modern day Nazi, so I see nothing inaccurate in saying some Bernie supporters will choose Nazism over compromise. The spite and hatred that comes out of that kind of vitriol is counter-productive and will not help them get anything they hope to achieve in their lifetimes, because that's what it takes, a lifetime commitment to enact progressive change, not temper tantrums.

[HarthorneWingo]

Regardless of your sentiments, the reality is much closer to an outcome where Biden beats Trump in a landslide by a spread of 15-20%. This is shaping up to be a wipeout on the order of LBJ vs. Goldwater.

I don't see it. The Democratic voting base is fractured. I see/hear Bernie vs Biden arguments everywhere. Then I see people on the must beat Trump train...trying to convince the BvB crowd to stick together no matter what.

The DNC has done too many shady things...for all to see...that have damaged the confidence of its base. These last 2 election cycles have shown this.

I don't see a clear path to victory and...Bernie will get the younger voters from what I see. Biden will get the Shillary vote...and...that didn't work last time.

I'm not sure why people are convinced he can win.

The shady DNC and all those kinds of opinions has squat to do with the outcome. You're projecting your feelings on to the electoral map and that has nothing to do with the political reality we are dealing with right now. If you were able to look at the scenario without all of this resentment and recrimination you'd see the odds for a Democratic landslide are growing daily now.

You think it’s ok for the DNC to put its thumb on the scales during a presidential primary?

[Clyde_Style]

I don't see it. The Democratic voting base is fractured. I see/hear Bernie vs Biden arguments everywhere. Then I see people on the must beat Trump train...trying to convince the BvB crowd to stick together no matter what.

The DNC has done too many shady things...for all to see...that have damaged the confidence of its base. These last 2 election cycles have shown this.

I don't see a clear path to victory and...Bernie will get the younger voters from what I see. Biden will get the Shillary vote...and...that didn't work last time.

I'm not sure why people are convinced he can win.

The shady DNC and all those kinds of opinions has squat to do with the outcome. You're projecting your feelings on to the electoral map and that has nothing to do with the political reality we are dealing with right now. If you were able to look at the scenario without all of this resentment and recrimination you'd see the odds for a Democratic landslide are growing daily now.

You think it’s ok for the DNC to put its thumb on the scales during a presidential primary?

Bernie lost the 2016 primaries by a significant margin and he's about to lose by even bigger margins now. You can tell us about the corrupt DNC until you're blue in the face and that still doesn't change the bottom line numbers of the actual votes. Stop blaming his failure to win on everything but him.

[HarthorneWingo]

The shady DNC and all those kinds of opinions has squat to do with the outcome. You're projecting your feelings on to the electoral map and that has nothing to do with the political reality we are dealing with right now. If you were able to look at the scenario without all of this resentment and recrimination you'd see the odds for a Democratic landslide are growing daily now.

I'm sorry but...I presented facts and scenarios that I have witnessed personally. You have not given a single reason for your feelings. Biden is not going to unify the dem voting base any more than Shillary did. That's my opinion. I have given the basis of what formed that opinion.

What makes you think Biden is a lock?

Your feelings are not facts.

And as far as sticking together, I made it very clear I'd vote for Bernie if he were the nominee and far more people are like me, not you.

In other words, far more people would vote for Bernie than for Biden. Checkmate.

Moreover, how are you going to beat a liar in Trump with another liar in Biden? Makes no sense.

[Clyde_Style]

I'm sorry but...I presented facts and scenarios that I have witnessed personally. You have not given a single reason for your feelings. Biden is not going to unify the dem voting base any more than Shillary did. That's my opinion. I have given the basis of what formed that opinion.

What makes you think Biden is a lock?

Your feelings are not facts.

And as far as sticking together, I made it very clear I'd vote for Bernie if he were the nominee and far more people are like me, not you.

In other words, far more people would vote for Bernie than for Biden. Checkmate.

That makes zero sense. And what's with this childish checkmate rubbish? Just when I thought you had reached peak irrationality you say something like this. I'll resume talking politics with you when you decide to grow up.

[HarthorneWingo]

Joe claimed last night that he had nothing to do with the bankruptcy bill.

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