OT: Democratic Primary Thread

[Clyde_Style]

My issue with Biden has always been the long game. How many times are we gonna play it safe, have a Republican come in and f*ck everything up, play it safe again and only win cause the incumbent is so obviously inept, then spend 4-8 years on mild changes, only for another Republican to come in and f*ck everything up again?

That's what I'm worried about. What's the next evil after Trump? Because if Biden is elected and does a half assed job, that means another GOP president right after.

Trump made some miss George Bush. Who knows what's after.

Doesn't the same concern exist if Bernie was elected and got nothing done?

It's certainly true if he managed to pass something much of the country doesn't support.

The notion of setting the table for future GOP victories can be dealt with by unifying control of Congress and the WH so they can actually legislate. Whether one likes Obama or not, that second term was often brutal because of the GOP senate.

Even if you don't like things about Biden's past, good things can happen with unity, because the times call for change in the direction we need to go. The winds blow in our favor with a unified Democratic front. We shouldn't underestimate what good can come out of a Biden administration if that is the case.

There's the court system of course, but also the appointees. Restoring competence to governance is critical right now. We'll get that. The good civil servants who preceded Trump that are still hanging on are being ruled over by department superiors appointed under Trump. A Biden WH can replace those superiors with competent professionals and flush back out the Trumpy McCarthyite loyalist purgers. We need to save the infrastructure. That infrastructure is people.

So that corrective will go a long way towards preventing a relapse of populist demagogues getting elected. Restoring this government by having actual adults with skills and an attitude that honors public service is just as important as the legislation a unified party will be able to enact.

There's so many reasons why we need to support this party this election, but to me that's a big one.

[Clyde_Style]

Contrary to my expectations, turnout was UP in Florida.

That's a very key indicator considering that turnout chose Biden by a massive margin.

It means we'll get the turnout in Florida necessary to win in November.

The importance of this cannot be understated.

[Clyde_Style]

If you're a Sanders supporter this is the moment when Bernie can inject some of his agenda into the Democratic party platform.

If he tells Biden he will support him and publicly announces this, then he will have a much bigger seat at the table. If he waits too long or stays in the race, he will be unnecessarily marginalized at the convention.

This is how the game of politics are. Making them work for you is the only way you ever get you want. Now's the time for Bernie's supporters to communicate to him they want him to support the nominee now and thus get their agenda a bigger slice of the pie.

Don't walk away from this empty-handed. You may not agree, but that's my advice.

[Capn'O]

That first dude should've just jumped in the raft.

[Marty McFly]

at joe biden's dick rider. no substantive policies, just good ol rose colored glasses pining for Barry's racist charming uncle, since it'll be a return of the good ole days back when we used to carpet bomb brown babies in the middle east and bail out the big banks.

I have to agree with this. And there will be millions of voters who think like this too. Like K-DOT was saying before, this is what gets voters to say "both are corrupt politicians, I'm not voting for either. They are the same".

I hate to say it, because I feel the coronavirus will be used as a political weapon. But that is the x-factor this election. If things are worse and we aren't recovering, Biden wins. If we survive and the market jumps again, that's a 100% Trump re-election.

This way of thinking reminds me of this comic. If every Dem wants Trump gone as much as they said they did over the last 4 years, it truly shouldn't matter who the nominee is, IMO.

And I don’t understand this way of thinking. Some of y’all either, never learn from history, or just don’t care because it doesn’t affect you enough to care.

Every 4-8 years there’s a brand new boogie man and he’s worse then the one before. You never asked Yourself why that person came into power.

At this rate, if civilization isn’t but a husk on the planet 20 years from now, you’ll have president Malia Obama praising Dubya as if he wasn’t a war criminal.

Just like her daddy stans Reagan.

[Marty McFly]

I just hope if Biden loses, progressives don't get blamed again.

We are blamed for Bernie's 2020 loss because the turnout was low v Biden. Which is fair. But if progressives apparently aren't getting out to vote for Bernie, I don't see why you expect them to vote for Biden.

Anyways, 90% of the people who voted for Bernie in 2016, also voted for Hillary. I think that percentage will be about the same for Biden (maybe a little higher).

More Bernie supporters supported Hillary then Hillary supporters supported Barack in 2008, and yet all you heard was about how Hillary lost the election because progressives didn’t turn out for her.Always forgetting to mention that Hillary didn’t campaign in 2 of the 3 states That lost her the general.

You know who campaigned for her in those states? Take a wild guess.

I voted for Hillary in 2016 and these last 4 years all I heard was that progressives lost her the election. Never again. I will not be voting for anyone who doesn’t support med4all and/or some form of UBI.

[GONYK]

I have to agree with this. And there will be millions of voters who think like this too. Like K-DOT was saying before, this is what gets voters to say "both are corrupt politicians, I'm not voting for either. They are the same".

I hate to say it, because I feel the coronavirus will be used as a political weapon. But that is the x-factor this election. If things are worse and we aren't recovering, Biden wins. If we survive and the market jumps again, that's a 100% Trump re-election.

This way of thinking reminds me of this comic. If every Dem wants Trump gone as much as they said they did over the last 4 years, it truly shouldn't matter who the nominee is, IMO.

And I don’t understand this way of thinking. Some of y’all either, never learn from history, or just don’t care because it doesn’t affect you enough to care.

Every 4-8 years there’s a brand new boogie man and he’s worse then the one before. You never asked Yourself why that person came into power.

At this rate, if civilization isn’t but a husk on the planet 20 years from now, you’ll have president Malia Obama praising Dubya as if he wasn’t a war criminal.

Just like her daddy stans Reagan.

And how does Bernie break this cycle?

[Kampuchea]

If it is not Bernie it may be better for Biden to lose to Trump. We do not want Biden in there further weakening the entire democratic party, doing irreparable damage that we will need DECADES to recover from.

He is a liar. Time and time again he just keeps lying in your faces and being caught for it. He is not there for Americans, he is there for big business.

If he wins he will fail this country, the future of the democratic party may depend on Biden not getting elected. I hope Bernie never supports him.

[Clyde_Style]

This way of thinking reminds me of this comic. If every Dem wants Trump gone as much as they said they did over the last 4 years, it truly shouldn't matter who the nominee is, IMO.

And I don’t understand this way of thinking. Some of y’all either, never learn from history, or just don’t care because it doesn’t affect you enough to care.

Every 4-8 years there’s a brand new boogie man and he’s worse then the one before. You never asked Yourself why that person came into power.

At this rate, if civilization isn’t but a husk on the planet 20 years from now, you’ll have president Malia Obama praising Dubya as if he wasn’t a war criminal.

Just like her daddy stans Reagan.

And how does Bernie break this cycle?

i.e., Bullets or Ballots

Marty doesn't have any choice in their mind so I do understand their anger even if I see the binary aspect differently.

Anger is an energy if used constructively. It is also self-consuming if not put to use or let go.

But the system can't make you choose what to do with that energy.

[Stannis]

Every 4-8 years there’s a brand new boogie man and he’s worse then the one before. You never asked Yourself why that person came into power.

That's a valid concern. I remember when Bush was the bogeyman. Now Trump makes us yearn the days of Bush. He usually gets appluaded in public appearances.

Biden can win. But who's going to be the bogeyman after him?

Seems like once an evil is usurped, an eviler one arises. And if Biden is anything like Obama, that will happen.

[Clyde_Style]

If it is not Bernie it may be better for Biden to lose to Trump. We do not want Biden in there further weakening the entire democratic party, doing irreparable damage that we will need DECADES to recover from.

He is a liar. Time and time again he just keeps lying in your faces and being caught for it. He is not there for Americans, he is there for big business.

If he wins he will fail this country, the future of the democratic party may depend on Biden not getting elected. I hope Bernie never supports him.

I can't take you anywhere

[Clyde_Style]

Every 4-8 years there’s a brand new boogie man and he’s worse then the one before. You never asked Yourself why that person came into power.

That's a valid concern. I remember when Bush was the bogeyman. Now Trump makes us yearn the days of Bush. He usually gets appluaded in public appearances.

Biden can win. But who's going to be the bogeyman after him?

Seems like once an evil is usurped, an eviler one arises. And if Biden is anything like Obama, that will happen.

Do you think AOC is going to sit on her hands wondering who the next boogeyman is or is she going to try to increase her leverage within the party?

[DOT]

The answer to this is relatively simple. It will happen until the Dem electorate votes differently. There seems to be a lot of vitriol directed at Biden, especially from Bernie supporters, which I understand from an emotional standpoint.

I think that vitriol should be directed at fellow Bernie supporters though. It's not Biden's fault that they did not vote.

I think for me, the word isn't vitriol, but frustration

And you're absolutely right, I mean, I do think the media/leadership going on about electability being the only thing that matters and how much more electable Biden is than anyone had an effect, but people still voted for him

I'm frustrated that Bernie supporters didn't turn out, I'm frustrated that people are voting for Biden just because he's leading the votes, but mostly I'm frustrated that none of the options were really great this time around, even though I like Bernie, he's very flawed as a candidate as well

I will die on the hill that Warren was the most pragmatic choice of candidate, and Biden should choose her as VP so we can get president Warren in 2024

I know I was shocked by Trump's election. It made it easier to fall into the mindset of demonizing other voters so I get it, it is hard to get with the choices of other voters who don't align with you. But I think it is really important not to demonize each other over our choices.

I don't have a problem with people liking Bernie even if he was never my first choice and that's why I've been very much in the camp of letting the chips fall where they land. IOW, if the vote was there for Bernie to take the nomination then he should get our support. But since it is not I also feel it is vital we don't attack each other for voting for another person as nominee.

There are valid reasons to support Bernie and other valid reasons to support Biden. And if the valid reason to support Biden is because he is the nominee and the life raft, then I don't think we should flame people for making that choice.

Bernie was an option. It didn't pan out so we should show some respect for that choice as an aspect of affirming our rights to exercise our vote in a functioning democracy. Yes, I think our democracy is just as grossly tainted as many Bernie supporters, full of corruption and corporate greed, but it is still an electoral system with the ability to fulfill its role of changing that.

This time the choice is binary between the Democrats and the GOP. Just because it is binary does not make it wrong to vote for the victory over clearly worse evils. Binary choices are part of two-party systems and there is a vast difference between these choices this time.

We can't always get what we want, but we can fight and live to see another day. I think we're on the same team here. I want reform, but I want to survive too. We will not survive if we surrender our vote in favor of these Nazis in this very binary election cycle. The chance for a better future and all of our dreams for progress will be for naught if we let them stay in power.

And if we continue to only put up candidates like Biden or Clinton, the only thing the Dems can do is survive instead of actually making progress

The issue is, you and I may be on the same team, but Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden and much of the Dem leadership are not on our team.

[Clyde_Style]

I think for me, the word isn't vitriol, but frustration

And you're absolutely right, I mean, I do think the media/leadership going on about electability being the only thing that matters and how much more electable Biden is than anyone had an effect, but people still voted for him

I'm frustrated that Bernie supporters didn't turn out, I'm frustrated that people are voting for Biden just because he's leading the votes, but mostly I'm frustrated that none of the options were really great this time around, even though I like Bernie, he's very flawed as a candidate as well

I will die on the hill that Warren was the most pragmatic choice of candidate, and Biden should choose her as VP so we can get president Warren in 2024

I know I was shocked by Trump's election. It made it easier to fall into the mindset of demonizing other voters so I get it, it is hard to get with the choices of other voters who don't align with you. But I think it is really important not to demonize each other over our choices.

I don't have a problem with people liking Bernie even if he was never my first choice and that's why I've been very much in the camp of letting the chips fall where they land. IOW, if the vote was there for Bernie to take the nomination then he should get our support. But since it is not I also feel it is vital we don't attack each other for voting for another person as nominee.

There are valid reasons to support Bernie and other valid reasons to support Biden. And if the valid reason to support Biden is because he is the nominee and the life raft, then I don't think we should flame people for making that choice.

Bernie was an option. It didn't pan out so we should show some respect for that choice as an aspect of affirming our rights to exercise our vote in a functioning democracy. Yes, I think our democracy is just as grossly tainted as many Bernie supporters, full of corruption and corporate greed, but it is still an electoral system with the ability to fulfill its role of changing that.

This time the choice is binary between the Democrats and the GOP. Just because it is binary does not make it wrong to vote for the victory over clearly worse evils. Binary choices are part of two-party systems and there is a vast difference between these choices this time.

We can't always get what we want, but we can fight and live to see another day. I think we're on the same team here. I want reform, but I want to survive too. We will not survive if we surrender our vote in favor of these Nazis in this very binary election cycle. The chance for a better future and all of our dreams for progress will be for naught if we let them stay in power.

And if we continue to only put up candidates like Biden or Clinton, the only thing the Dems can do is survive instead of actually making progress

The issue is, you and I may be on the same team, but Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden and much of the Dem leadership are not on our team.

So what are you proposing to do?

[GONYK]

Every 4-8 years there’s a brand new boogie man and he’s worse then the one before. You never asked Yourself why that person came into power.

That's a valid concern. I remember when Bush was the bogeyman. Now Trump makes us yearn the days of Bush. He usually gets appluaded in public appearances.

Biden can win. But who's going to be the bogeyman after him?

Seems like once an evil is usurped, an eviler one arises. And if Biden is anything like Obama, that will happen.

Same question to you then...

How would Bernie change this? How does he not cause an equal but opposite reaction from the right?

[Stannis]

Every 4-8 years there’s a brand new boogie man and he’s worse then the one before. You never asked Yourself why that person came into power.

That's a valid concern. I remember when Bush was the bogeyman. Now Trump makes us yearn the days of Bush. He usually gets appluaded in public appearances.

Biden can win. But who's going to be the bogeyman after him?

Seems like once an evil is usurped, an eviler one arises. And if Biden is anything like Obama, that will happen.

Same question to you then...

How would Bernie change this? How does he not cause an equal but opposite reaction from the right?

I cannot say for certain that Bernie would break the cycle. But the chances are much more likely with him than Biden. Biden being in the establishment, a warmonger, pro-big corporation, guarantees a Trump 2.0 GOP nominee in 2020.

Sanders would go after corporations, not middle-class working America. And he isn't a warmonger. And, with Biden, I bet we will see another Obiden-Bama oil boom before making progress in halting global warming. But that's another topic.

Not to say Sanders wouldn't be opposed in upcoming elections. But it would be by a more modest nominee.

[GONYK]

That's a valid concern. I remember when Bush was the bogeyman. Now Trump makes us yearn the days of Bush. He usually gets appluaded in public appearances.

Biden can win. But who's going to be the bogeyman after him?

Seems like once an evil is usurped, an eviler one arises. And if Biden is anything like Obama, that will happen.

Same question to you then...

How would Bernie change this? How does he not cause an equal but opposite reaction from the right?

I cannot say for certain that Bernie would break the cycle. But the chances are much more likely with him than Biden. Biden being in the establishment, a warmonger, pro-big corporation, guarantees a Trump 2.0 GOP nominee in 2020.

Sanders would go after corporations, not middle-class working America. And he isn't a warmonger. And, with Biden, I bet we will see another Obiden-Bama oil boom before making progress in halting global warming. But that's another topic.

Not to say Sanders wouldn't be opposed in upcoming elections. But it would be by a more modest nominee.

I'm not sure I'm seeing this.

Biden is like every politician we've seen before. He doesn't inspire hatred really. If he ran in 2016, he would have won. Hillary lost because she was so polarizing, and because there was a racial backlash against Obama.

Biden doesn't carry that same antipathy. That's why bringing up what he voted for 20 years ago has not been an effective strategy. Nobody really cares, because they generally like and trust the guy. Beyond that, people generally trust the establishment when it comes to their politics. I think the swift coalescence around the establishment candidate is proof of that.

Bernie, on the other hand, is a self-described democratic socialist. I can't see a bigger boogeyman for the GOP to run against than that, since socialist is the slur the GOP uses to gin up their base.

They would counter with an ultra-conservative. Like the worst version of Ted Cruz.

I guess the bigger question is what do you think Trump being elected was in response to?

[Jalen Bluntson]

I need toilet paper.

[Clyde_Style]

I need toilet paper.

I surrendered all of mine to Cornholio

[Marty McFly]

Every 4-8 years there’s a brand new boogie man and he’s worse then the one before. You never asked Yourself why that person came into power.

That's a valid concern. I remember when Bush was the bogeyman. Now Trump makes us yearn the days of Bush. He usually gets appluaded in public appearances.

Biden can win. But who's going to be the bogeyman after him?

Seems like once an evil is usurped, an eviler one arises. And if Biden is anything like Obama, that will happen.

He makes people with short attention spans yearn for the dubya years. George w bush was a horrific head of state.

Biden’s nom in the era of trump, is the establishment telling everyone who isn’t privileged to “...eat brioche”
Anyone who knows a little history will know what it means.