Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread III (Info. Post 1)

[spacemonkey]

lol don't fall for Musk, next thing we'll hear is he's built a sub and is randomly accusing some dude of being a pedo

he just wants attention and is using this as a way to get it

[G R E Y]

Very solid initiative by Kuzma

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[G R E Y]

It would be nice if once this is all behind is and we can look ahead that a balance could be found between catering to tourists and preserving this better:

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[shangrila]

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Edit: Pretty suspect wording in the note next to Japan, though...

Are you referring to mask-wearing? It might have legs though. Apparently everyone in Hong Kong also wears mask.

Now, you've probably heard some people say, "It doesn't protect you from the virus, it just prevents you from spreading it. So there's no point in wearing it if you feel just fine."
But that is exactly it. As we've already seen with celebrities (Idris Elba) and NBA players (Gobert, Mitchell), you can "feel just fine" even if you've contracted the virus. Which means you can be a carrier.
If everyone proactively wears a mask, it could help prevent transmission from asymptomatic carriers.

BUT, that will probably not happen anytime soon in the USA (or even Canada for that matter) where it's "discouraged to the point of becoming socially unacceptable."

https://time.com/5799964/coronavirus-face-mask-asia-us/

Cheryl Man is usually the only one wearing a face mask on her New York City subway train. She notices this, but other people on the train notice, too. Usually she just gets odd stares from other commuters. But on Tuesday morning, when she was walking to school, a group of teens jeered at her and coughed in her direction.

No I fully agree with mask wearing and everything you've said in this post. In fact, part of why such a dense city like Hong Kong or Singapore has been so successful in limiting spread is because of mass public buy-in into doing things like wearing masks, and social distancing.

And you're absolutely right that the stigmatization of mask wearers in the West is stupid and illogical.

When I said 'suspect wording', I was referring to the note of "obedience" which seems like the sort of thing someone who still uses the term "Chinaman" and "Orientals", and who characterizes Asians as "meek" would say.

As though Japanese people only wear masks out of "obedience" and not because they actually give a damn about the virus.

It's suspect because it can be easily interpreted as being kinda racist.

Don't confuse an accurate description of Japanese culture with racism just because you aren't familiar with it.

They have deeply ingrained ideas of consideration and not causing trouble for others, hence why masks have been common for years for anyone over there with an illness that still wants to walk around. It's considered incredibly rude, for example, to have the sniffles in public without a mask on.

[BoogieTime]

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Flatten the curve. Hopefully society will distance itself enough

[shangrila]

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I'm not surprised to see idiocy like this but it still makes me shake my head.

[chrismikayla]

Last week a nurse told me that with a shortage of N95 masks, the masks that are available for professional automobile painters offer a seal and good protection. The problem is you'd look like an astronaut LOL.

[loveandbeer]

In Hong Kong or Korea, you'd be criticized for not wearing a mask. The occasional white dude or stubborn old people are the only ones that don't wear one around here.

[spacemonkey]

Don't confuse an accurate description of Japanese culture with racism just because you aren't familiar with it.

They have deeply ingrained ideas of consideration and not causing trouble for others, hence why masks have been common for years for anyone over there with an illness that still wants to walk around. It's considered incredibly rude, for example, to have the sniffles in public without a mask on.

Without getting into how familiar I am with it because you couldn't possibly know, the issue here is that the term 'obedience' is absolutely not how you describe a society where abiding by social norms and social consideration is prioritized.

Obedience, used in this context it was in the graph, can be interpreted as being paternalistic and reductionist. If you told someone who was wearing a mask in Japan that they were being very 'obedient', they might not love that descriptor, and insist they were being considerate.

It is considered a taboo to walk around without a mask when you're sick, but people don't just wear a mask when they're sick because they're 'obedient' to a social norm; caring about not making other people sick is the overwhelming component and is actively taught.

The wording used is suspect, as I said in my OP.

[Catchall]

Here is an interview that Devin Nunes did earlier today:

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For much of the country, what Nunes is saying is true, imo. New York, Seattle and San Francisco are different, but in most other areas the current data suggests a below-average flu season is taking place.

Now maybe there's a tsunami of new cases about to hit the fan, and I'll withhold judgement, but for many states it doesn't appear to be happening.

Again, I'm in Utah. There were 12 more positive diagnoses today bringing the total positive cases to 63 across a state of nearly 3 million people. There are zero fatalities so far. And yet everything is shut down, the economy is grinding to a halt, and everyone is rushing to buy water and toilet paper.

Stay tuned...

[HeartBreakKid]

In Hong Kong or Korea, you'd be criticized for not wearing a mask. The occasional white dude or stubborn old people are the only ones that don't wear one around here.

Same all around East Asia.

[Tomjas]

Australia is closing its borders to non residents from midnight tomorrow

[chrismikayla]

In Hong Kong or Korea, you'd be criticized for not wearing a mask. The occasional white dude or stubborn old people are the only ones that don't wear one around here.

Same all around East Asia.

It's confusing because many health experts say wearing a surgical mask does no good, however it seems to be working well in Asia. There seems to be conflicting information about basic masks. Surgical masks have to be better than nothing though.

[spacemonkey]

In Hong Kong or Korea, you'd be criticized for not wearing a mask. The occasional white dude or stubborn old people are the only ones that don't wear one around here.

Same all around East Asia.

It's confusing because many health experts say wearing a surgical mask does no good, however it seems to be working well in Asia. There seems to be conflicting information about basic masks. Surgical masks have to be better than nothing though.

Masks have been shown to be effective as reducing influenza-like illness spread from parents to children: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19193267

We conducted a prospective cluster-randomized trial comparing surgical masks, non-fit-tested P2 masks, and no masks in prevention of influenza-like illness (ILI) in households
...
We found that adherence to mask use significantly reduced the risk for ILI-associated infection

The major hurdle with masks is adherence, as noted in that study.

Some will argue that masks cause you to touch your face more frequently, which for some people is true. But they can also remind you *not* to touch your face, which for some people is true.

Masks are effective at limiting how you spread, and since Covid-19 can be asymptomatic for some time, you won't know if you have the virus, and if you only wear a mask when you have symptoms, it's already too late.

[ItsDanger]

The mask would be more effective in preventing an infected person from transmitting the virus rather than the other way around.

[Richfield]

Here is an interview that Devin Nunes did earlier today:

Read on Twitter

For much of the country, what Nunes is saying is true, imo. New York, Seattle and San Francisco are different, but in most other areas the current data suggests a below-average flu season is taking place.

Now maybe there's a tsunami of new cases about to hit the fan, and I'll withhold judgement, but for many states it doesn't appear to be happening.

Again, I'm in Utah. There were 12 more positive diagnoses today bringing the total positive cases to 63 across a state of nearly 3 million people. There are zero fatalities so far. And yet everything is shut down, the economy is grinding to a halt, and everyone is rushing to buy water and toilet paper.

Stay tuned...

It's in all 50 states. You have bad info. You're listening to the wrong people, at a danger to yourself and others. I wish you luck. And us too, partly because of people like yourself.

[Catchall]

Here is an interview that Devin Nunes did earlier today:

Read on Twitter

For much of the country, what Nunes is saying is true, imo. New York, Seattle and San Francisco are different, but in most other areas the current data suggests a below-average flu season is taking place.

Now maybe there's a tsunami of new cases about to hit the fan, and I'll withhold judgement, but for many states it doesn't appear to be happening.

Again, I'm in Utah. There were 12 more positive diagnoses today bringing the total positive cases to 63 across a state of nearly 3 million people. There are zero fatalities so far. And yet everything is shut down, the economy is grinding to a halt, and everyone is rushing to buy water and toilet paper.

Stay tuned...

It's in all 50 states. You have bad info. You're listening to the wrong people, at a danger to yourself and others. I wish you luck. And us too, partly because of people like yourself.

https://covidtracking.com/data/

[HollowEarth]

In Hong Kong or Korea, you'd be criticized for not wearing a mask. The occasional white dude or stubborn old people are the only ones that don't wear one around here.

Same all around East Asia.

It's confusing because many health experts say wearing a surgical mask does no good, however it seems to be working well in Asia. There seems to be conflicting information about basic masks. Surgical masks have to be better than nothing though.

They are better than nothing. Dr. Fauci (NIAID) and Dr. Redfield (CDC) have admitted that there is a benefit to masks because it diminishes how likely infected individuals are spread the virus. However, they've both also discouraged people from buying and wearing masks. Their explanation for discouraging masks was that people working in healthcare need them most, and we don't have enough masks for everybody to buy them.

Sources:

"It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it," Fauci said.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/preventing-coronavirus-facemask-60-minutes-2020-03-08/

Redfield made a similar point the following day in stark terms. “These masks need to be prioritized for healthcare professionals,” he said, adding that this includes the people who’ve been infected and their immediate family members. He said it was imperative for “people to realize that that’s what these masks need to be reserved for.”

The government currently has only 30 million respirators, or one-tenth of the required amount.

https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-warns-save-respirator-masks-for-healthcare-workers-162144855.html

[Metallikid]

In Hong Kong or Korea, you'd be criticized for not wearing a mask. The occasional white dude or stubborn old people are the only ones that don't wear one around here.

Same all around East Asia.

It's confusing because many health experts say wearing a surgical mask does no good, however it seems to be working well in Asia. There seems to be conflicting information about basic masks. Surgical masks have to be better than nothing though.

The governments saying that masks don't work are the governments who **** the bed and didn't/don't have enough masks for their medical professionals so they have to discourage the public from buying them up so they can try to cover their asses. (they can't)

[Richfield]

Catchall. In Utah. You said in a state of 3 mil, there were 12 more "positive cases" today. You understand, that's just from those who have been tested right?

Have all 3 mil been tested?

How many have been tested? Have you been tested?

If tests are limited, and 12 positives show up. How many do you think would have shown up TODAY if all 3 mil had been tested? Just the same number? 12?

You're comparing all the wrong numbers.

You don't have a grasp for what's going on, clearly. Each post you're displaying your lack of understanding of the details involved. They matter.