OT: Panic Buying. When Will it End?

[CantStopTheRock]

Not just the Chinese Government. How about South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore... all countries with far more successful containment plans than the CDC and WHO and NHS have had. No one is saying that these western agencies are full of ****, they are saying that maybe the Asian countries that rely heavily on masks as part of their strategy are doing something right in making sure they create enough of a supply to even implement them. There are scores of doctors and government officials in affected countries stating they wish there was more masks and PPE available like there are in Asian countries.

You don't think there is a reason for this?

The CDC, WHO and NHS have all admitted that priority needs to go to HCP so that the impending shortage is not made worse. They of course do not want the public going and buying up the inventory, so they tell the public that they shouldn't need them.

The logical deduction here isn't that masks don't do anything, it's that there is not an adequate supply so they will absolutely not make a recommendation to the public that they should go out and get them.

The CDC is nor releasing documents pertaining to home made masks, by the way, and suggesting that cloth masks or scarves be used if recycled and reworn masks are not adequate. Masks matter.

The CDC/WHO/NHS didn't just change their tune because of the shortage, first off. That was their stance before all this happened. The dozens of quotes I have already posted where from case studies from 2018 and 2019. Doctors in other countries are wishing there was more supply because HCW are running low, not because they want to mask the entire population.

I agree the amount of supply we had to start is a joke

South Korea has one is the highest infection rates, so I'm not sure how a nation that already wore masks yet still got terrible results prove masks were working

Contributing a few other Asian countries success to masks is not telling the whole storey, in fact little of it

Korea had terrible results? They are located right next to China and are major trading partners. Korea saw their first outbreak around the same time as Italy.

Korea today:

8,652 cases
94 deaths
1.1% mortality rate

Italy today:

47,021 cases (grossly underestimated by their own admission)
4,032 deaths
8.6% mortality rate

Korea has arguably handled the outbreak better than any country. Their.case only strengthens the argument that masks are an important part of containing an outbreak.

At one point they were one of the top in infection rate per person while wearing masks. They then locked everything down and tested people like crazy. I'm not debating on whether they handled it better (because they did), I'm saying until they took serious action, their masks did not do a whole lot

Look at the flu, are vaccinations bad?

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/David_Fedson/publication/10813309/figure/fig1/AS:299694803701765@1448464217592/Influenza-vaccine-use-in-50-developed-and-rapidly-developing-countries-Vaccine-use-is.png

[Raps in 4]

Everyone needs to remain skeptical on the data coming out from China. Today China Mobile had reported to have lost 7.25 million of their customer. That's just one mobile carrier. Let that sink in...

https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/flvb5e/china_mobile_loses_725_million_users_for_the/

This virus is deadlier than the Chinese trying to suggest...

EDIT: here's the data reported by Chinese mobile carriers
https://www.chinamobileltd.com/tc/ir/operation_m.php?fbclid=IwAR2kq73kK0i-sQJXc7ISyVPI3f7MViuGOlbXKyOHCYnNn23YlQctDWbftj0
https://www.chinaunicom.com.hk/sc/ir/operating.php?type=monthly&fbclid=IwAR03djoaeEnNXQKEXPDwGIXCj8htvvTAfa3OMTEJoscLyTKhFoTY4AEvHRc
https://www.chinatelecom-h.com/sc/ir/kpi.php?fbclid=IwAR0yq8J4EHBlLDk5qD5cAGpLPb4SUul4VuPT0JGY_Y_XyBij9BuPvcOxZ3w

EDIT: So after reading more into the numbers, here's a brief summary:

According to the numbers provided by these 3 mobile carriers, Jan 2020 and Feb 2020 mobile customer = -862000 -7254000 -1186000 +430000 -5600000 meaning -14,472,000 in total. That's not including Feb 2020 numbers from China Unicom.

Wuhan has 11 million people. Are you suggesting that 65% of the city's population died and China successfully hid this information from the world?

[Indeed]

Everyone needs to remain skeptical on the data coming out from China. Today China Mobile had reported to have lost 7.25 million of their customer. That's just one mobile carrier. Let that sink in...

https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/flvb5e/china_mobile_loses_725_million_users_for_the/

This virus is deadlier than the Chinese trying to suggest...

EDIT: here's the data reported by China Mobile
https://www.chinamobileltd.com/tc/ir/operation_m.php?fbclid=IwAR2kq73kK0i-sQJXc7ISyVPI3f7MViuGOlbXKyOHCYnNn23YlQctDWbftj0
https://www.chinaunicom.com.hk/sc/ir/operating.php?type=monthly&fbclid=IwAR03djoaeEnNXQKEXPDwGIXCj8htvvTAfa3OMTEJoscLyTKhFoTY4AEvHRc
https://www.chinatelecom-h.com/sc/ir/kpi.php?fbclid=IwAR0yq8J4EHBlLDk5qD5cAGpLPb4SUul4VuPT0JGY_Y_XyBij9BuPvcOxZ3w

I have no doubts the Chinese government is FOS with their data reporting but you're suggesting that the loss of 7.25 million users from China Mobile is a direct result of death. We're in a pandemic and recession. People paying their phone bills may not be the top of everyone's priority right now considering so many are worried about how they're going to pay their rent or that their loved ones are dying.

The loss of their customer base can be a result of many reasons. I've been considering cancelling my phone service with Bell and going with another provider for a while now. Once this pandemic is over I will be doing that. Bell has been raping me with exorbitant fees for far too long so I can't wait to be gone from them.

I don't think he mentioned death, and you are right, it is more related to how people value mobile devices.

Many people in Asia may have more than multiple phone services per person, and some may believe their home phone would be enough for their family instead of having mobile phone.

[mkot]

Everyone needs to remain skeptical on the data coming out from China. Today China Mobile had reported to have lost 7.25 million of their customer. That's just one mobile carrier. Let that sink in...

https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/flvb5e/china_mobile_loses_725_million_users_for_the/

This virus is deadlier than the Chinese trying to suggest...

EDIT: here's the data reported by Chinese mobile carriers
https://www.chinamobileltd.com/tc/ir/operation_m.php?fbclid=IwAR2kq73kK0i-sQJXc7ISyVPI3f7MViuGOlbXKyOHCYnNn23YlQctDWbftj0
https://www.chinaunicom.com.hk/sc/ir/operating.php?type=monthly&fbclid=IwAR03djoaeEnNXQKEXPDwGIXCj8htvvTAfa3OMTEJoscLyTKhFoTY4AEvHRc
https://www.chinatelecom-h.com/sc/ir/kpi.php?fbclid=IwAR0yq8J4EHBlLDk5qD5cAGpLPb4SUul4VuPT0JGY_Y_XyBij9BuPvcOxZ3w

EDIT: So after reading more into the numbers, here's a brief summary:

According to the numbers provided by these 3 mobile carriers, Jan 2020 and Feb 2020 mobile customer = -862000 -7254000 -1186000 +430000 -5600000 meaning -14,472,000 in total. That's not including Feb 2020 numbers from China Unicom.

Wuhan has 11 million people. Are you suggesting that 65% of the city's population died and China successfully hid this information from the world?

Draw your own conclusion. I'm simply giving people the numbers and these are facts. You want to suggest that at least 14,472,000 people cut their mobile phone plan in 2 months. Sure it's possible.

I've heard and read so many stories coming out of China that make it hard for me to believe the numbers they had so far reported to WHO. While we are running out of masks and toilet paper, they were running out of body bag and cremator.

[Raps in 4]

Everyone needs to remain skeptical on the data coming out from China. Today China Mobile had reported to have lost 7.25 million of their customer. That's just one mobile carrier. Let that sink in...

https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/flvb5e/china_mobile_loses_725_million_users_for_the/

This virus is deadlier than the Chinese trying to suggest...

EDIT: here's the data reported by Chinese mobile carriers
https://www.chinamobileltd.com/tc/ir/operation_m.php?fbclid=IwAR2kq73kK0i-sQJXc7ISyVPI3f7MViuGOlbXKyOHCYnNn23YlQctDWbftj0
https://www.chinaunicom.com.hk/sc/ir/operating.php?type=monthly&fbclid=IwAR03djoaeEnNXQKEXPDwGIXCj8htvvTAfa3OMTEJoscLyTKhFoTY4AEvHRc
https://www.chinatelecom-h.com/sc/ir/kpi.php?fbclid=IwAR0yq8J4EHBlLDk5qD5cAGpLPb4SUul4VuPT0JGY_Y_XyBij9BuPvcOxZ3w

EDIT: So after reading more into the numbers, here's a brief summary:

According to the numbers provided by these 3 mobile carriers, Jan 2020 and Feb 2020 mobile customer = -862000 -7254000 -1186000 +430000 -5600000 meaning -14,472,000 in total. That's not including Feb 2020 numbers from China Unicom.

Wuhan has 11 million people. Are you suggesting that 65% of the city's population died and China successfully hid this information from the world?

Draw your own conclusion. I'm simply giving people the numbers and these are facts. You want to suggest that at least 14,472,000 people cut their mobile phone plan in 2 months. Sure it's possible.

I've heard and read so many stories coming out of China that make it hard for me to believe the numbers they had so far reported to WHO. While we are running out of masks and toilet paper, they were running out of body bag and cremator.

Why aren't we running out of body bags then? I mean, Italy already is, and they're at just over 4000 deaths (it doesn't take many deaths to overwhelm hosptial morgues). It's the same virus that's spreading around the world. We should all have millions of dead by now according to your estimates.

[VancouverRaps]

How many of these big retail businesses still operating are really “essential”?

A lot of them could at least just close their stores to the public and operate online with delivery. Like electronics stores and home furniture/hardware/appliance stores.


I feel bad for their employees, especially if the job involves face to face customer service. Needlessly putting lives at risk just to avoid revenue loss.

That's where we are now in California. All retail stores are closed. Pretty much the only businesses that are open are restaurants (take out and delivery only), banks, grocery stores, pharmacies, convenience stores, gas stations, laundromats/dry cleaners, and, of course, marijuana dispensaries.

Meanwhile in Vancouver they still have an indoor trampoline park open

[hankscorpioLA]

Listen to CDC but make the correct judgement yourself. For exmaple CDC told their people yesterday "Behave like you have the virus" but at the same time keep telling people do not need to wear mask if you don't have any symptons. Well? They can't have it both ways. Wear mask people, bottom line is you don't know you have it!

I don't think that's the correct guidance.

If you think you have it, then practice social distancing and stay at home. Only go out for essentials. Stay 6 feet away from anyone else.

You only need to wear a mask if that isn't possible for some reason.

Social distancing doesn't help if you are ultimately touching things that those people who are 6' away also touched, after they were eating, touching their faces, picking their nose, etc... and then you go and touch your face or carry that to other surfaces.

Further, the mask isn't primarily for the protection of the wearer, but to reduce contagion from leaving the person wearing the mask. The fact that people can carry and transmit COVID for days or weeks without showing symptoms is the exact reason why it isn't only sick people who should attempt to cover their faces when they have to break isolation and go out into the world to do essential things.

Here's the thing...

By far, the most common way the disease is spread is by direct transmission. You are near a person who is infected, they cough, you inhale the droplets. Or maybe they cough in their hand and you touch their hand. The longer you spend around an infected person, the more likely you are to be infected.

But even being near someone infected doesn't guarantee transmission. We can see that clearly by the results from NBA players. Only 2 members of the Jazz were infected and none of their most recent opponents.

So the first point is that in all cases, infection is a matter of probability. Unless a person literally coughs into your mouth, you are not guaranteed to be infected.

Nevertheless, direct transmission probably accounts for at least 80% of all transmissions. That is why every health expert has gotten behind social distancing. Because if you can cut off the principal means of transmission, you have the biggest impact.

The next most common is high-touch surfaces. These are things like doorknobs and elevator and ATM buttons, etc. This kind of transmission is much less probable, but because those surfaces are touched so often, they can be dangerous. The best way to avoid those is to avoid touching them or by washing or sanitizing immediately afterwards.

As such, before anyone wears a mask, by staying at home unless absolutely necessary, practicing social distancing when outside, and regularly washing your hands, you eliminate all of the most common methods of transmission.

Adding masks on top of all that may reduce the odds of getting infected slightly, but not significantly. That is why masks should be reserved for those who, for whatever reason, are not in a position to practice proper social distancing.

Moreover, as you have mentioned, unless you are familiar with the masks and comfortable wearing them, they can wind up being more of a hindrance than a help.

[mkot]

Wuhan has 11 million people. Are you suggesting that 65% of the city's population died and China successfully hid this information from the world?

Draw your own conclusion. I'm simply giving people the numbers and these are facts. You want to suggest that at least 14,472,000 people cut their mobile phone plan in 2 months. Sure it's possible.

I've heard and read so many stories coming out of China that make it hard for me to believe the numbers they had so far reported to WHO. While we are running out of masks and toilet paper, they were running out of body bag and cremator.

Why aren't we running out of body bags then? I mean, Italy already is, and they're at just over 4000 deaths (it doesn't take many deaths to overwhelm hosptial morgues). It's the same virus that's spreading around the world. We should all have millions of dead by now according to your estimates.

What did I estimate? I already said I'm simply here to provide some data and people should remain skeptical on the CCP government, thus the death rate of 2% in China could be off. My conclusion is this virus is deadlier than what the Chinese trying to tell us.

That's just my conclusion of all I learned so far.

You say the loss of customers is a nothing burger, and that's could be true too. Like I said, draw your own conclusion. Truth be told, we probably will never know the actual death toll in China.

[Raps in 4]

Draw your own conclusion. I'm simply giving people the numbers and these are facts. You want to suggest that at least 14,472,000 people cut their mobile phone plan in 2 months. Sure it's possible.

I've heard and read so many stories coming out of China that make it hard for me to believe the numbers they had so far reported to WHO. While we are running out of masks and toilet paper, they were running out of body bag and cremator.

Why aren't we running out of body bags then? I mean, Italy already is, and they're at just over 4000 deaths (it doesn't take many deaths to overwhelm hosptial morgues). It's the same virus that's spreading around the world. We should all have millions of dead by now according to your estimates.

What did I estimate? I already said I'm simply here to provide some data and people should remain skeptical on the CCP government, thus the death rate of 2% in China could be off. My conclusion is this virus is deadlier than what the Chinese trying to tell us.

That's just my conclusion of all I learned so far.

You say the loss of customers is a nothing burger, and that's could be true too. Like I said, draw your own conclusion. Truth be told, we probably will never know the actual death toll in China.

China has one of the highest recorded death rates though (at 4%). The mortality rate is just 1% in Korea. It's 0.3% in Germany (albeit the virus hasn't had as much time to kill people there). It's actually less deadly than we initially thought, so no, China isn't covering anything up.

[CantStopTheRock]

Saskatchewan has now made the 14 day self-isolation period after travel a law in the province.

Premier Scott Moe announced that public gatherings are now limited to no more than 25 people and nightclub, bars and lounges must close.

“Today, I signed an emergency order that all persons are required to comply with all order issued by the Government of Saskatchewan and the Chief Medical Health Officer,” Moe said. “All police forces in Saskatchewan are authorized to take any reasonable action, including the power of arrest, to enforce these orders.” Penalties could include a $2,000 fine for failing to self-isolate for 14 days upon returning to the province.

Should be across the board

[NinjaBro]

BC with another 77 cases today bringing the total to 348. Most of them in a few senior homes where residents and staff got infected. This is getting ridiculous. Why are the cases rising every day? When I head out, the streets are definitely more empty as people are practicing social distancing. Most businesses are closed. All restaurants closed, delivery and take out only. Feels like our cases should be declining not rising.

[BD12]

BC with another 77 cases today bringing the total to 348. Most of them in a few senior homes where residents and staff got infected. This is getting ridiculous. Why are the cases rising every day? When I head out, the streets are definitely more empty as people are practicing social distancing. Most businesses are closed. All restaurants closed, delivery and take out only. Feels like our cases should be declining not rising.

Because there are still citizens returning from abroad and also possibly means community transmission already occurred before the social distancing was implemented

[rbp246]

BC with another 77 cases today bringing the total to 348. Most of them in a few senior homes where residents and staff got infected. This is getting ridiculous. Why are the cases rising every day? When I head out, the streets are definitely more empty as people are practicing social distancing. Most businesses are closed. All restaurants closed, delivery and take out only. Feels like our cases should be declining not rising.

As you scale the testing process up there will be more cases.

Also..the results that come out daily are from people that got tested 5 to 6 days ago..takes time to get tested and get results back.

Sent from my SM-G950W using RealGM mobile app

[Lord_Zedd]

BC with another 77 cases today bringing the total to 348. Most of them in a few senior homes where residents and staff got infected. This is getting ridiculous. Why are the cases rising every day? When I head out, the streets are definitely more empty as people are practicing social distancing. Most businesses are closed. All restaurants closed, delivery and take out only. Feels like our cases should be declining not rising.

This should be the day people are returning from travel for many (if not all canadians) and we won't see the effects of border closure, and "social distancing" until weeks from now - whether we followed orders or ignored everything.

Alberta currently is getting wrecked by community spreads. 34 cases alone came from one single gathering......

Watch on YouTube

;feature=youtu.be&t=3788

[B-Ball Freak]

Is it true that Canada has tested more people than the US despite having 10 times smaller population?

[B-Ball Freak]

BC with another 77 cases today bringing the total to 348. Most of them in a few senior homes where residents and staff got infected. This is getting ridiculous. Why are the cases rising every day? When I head out, the streets are definitely more empty as people are practicing social distancing. Most businesses are closed. All restaurants closed, delivery and take out only. Feels like our cases should be declining not rising.

If social distancing was working we wont see it right away, maybe in about a week or two.

[Raps in 4]

Is it true that Canada has tested more people than the US despite having 10 times smaller population?

Ontario alone was testing more people daily than the entire US until recently (I think the US has picked up their testing now).

[rocky_da_best]

BC with another 77 cases today bringing the total to 348. Most of them in a few senior homes where residents and staff got infected. This is getting ridiculous. Why are the cases rising every day? When I head out, the streets are definitely more empty as people are practicing social distancing. Most businesses are closed. All restaurants closed, delivery and take out only. Feels like our cases should be declining not rising.

For starters, it's because the incubation period is 14 days and social distancing began 7 days ago. Second, there's a whole bunch of tests that are pending (5000 in Ontario for example) and it takes 5 days from what I understand, to receive results of the test. Everything is lagging behind. There's something like 300 cases in Ontario right now but conceivably, it could officially be as high as 5300. But more realistically, it's probably at least tenfold that number.

[rapstarter]

The CDC/WHO/NHS didn't just change their tune because of the shortage, first off. That was their stance before all this happened. The dozens of quotes I have already posted where from case studies from 2018 and 2019. Doctors in other countries are wishing there was more supply because HCW are running low, not because they want to mask the entire population.

I agree the amount of supply we had to start is a joke

South Korea has one is the highest infection rates, so I'm not sure how a nation that already wore masks yet still got terrible results prove masks were working

Contributing a few other Asian countries success to masks is not telling the whole storey, in fact little of it

Korea had terrible results? They are located right next to China and are major trading partners. Korea saw their first outbreak around the same time as Italy.

Korea today:

8,652 cases
94 deaths
1.1% mortality rate

Italy today:

47,021 cases (grossly underestimated by their own admission)
4,032 deaths
8.6% mortality rate

Korea has arguably handled the outbreak better than any country. Their.case only strengthens the argument that masks are an important part of containing an outbreak.

At one point they were one of the top in infection rate per person while wearing masks. They then locked everything down and tested people like crazy. I'm not debating on whether they handled it better (because they did), I'm saying until they took serious action, their masks did not do a whole lot

Look at the flu, are vaccinations bad?

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/David_Fedson/publication/10813309/figure/fig1/AS:299694803701765@1448464217592/Influenza-vaccine-use-in-50-developed-and-rapidly-developing-countries-Vaccine-use-is.png

They never locked everything down. Furthermore they remain one of the few countries that have never banned flights from China. The virus only spread massively there because members of a large cult got infected and didn't take any precautions. I can't speak for the efficacy of everyone wearing masks but I'm of the opinion that when everyone is wearing one, it at least tells us that people are taking it more seriously. Italy unfortunately found that out too late and it seems the US and the UK did not learn.

[B-Ball Freak]

For starters, it's because the incubation period is 14 days and social distancing began 7 days ago. Second, there's a whole bunch of tests that are pending (5000 in Ontario for example) and it takes 5 days from what I understand, to receive results of the test. Everything is lagging behind. There's something like 300 cases in Ontario right now but conceivably, it could officially be as high as 5300. But more realistically, it's probably at least tenfold that number.

Atleast were not in America, we actually started closing places down relatively early.