Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread IV (Must read Post 1)

[mtron929]

I didnt think it was gonna get this crazy seeing as ive never seen anything like it.

What did you do to save the world in January aside from posting on Realgm. Did you quit your job, pull your kids out of school and build some hospital beds and ventilators?

Seriously your talking a big game so what did you do as a higher intelligent human months ago?

These are the posts I've made on this forum in early March when NBA season was still on and not many people in the US was taking the coronavirus seriously.
_______________

Re: Coronavirus cancel games?
2
#16 » by mtron929 » Tue Mar 3, 2020 3:21 am

Yeah, don't worry about the players. It's the fans. At this point, NO ONE should be going to concerts/sporting events/etc where there are dense number of people in small space for a lenghty period of time.
_______________

"This is simplistic way of thinking. There is a huge spectrum in between quarantining yourself and not moving outside of your room for a year and going about your business as usual. Avoiding sporting games, concerts, clubs, etc. and any crowded places is something that one should do for cautionary purposes for a while. I mean, are people addicted to going out like cocaine such that they must do it?"

_____________________

Re: Coronavirus cancel games?
4
#37 » by mtron929 » Tue Mar 3, 2020 4:59 am

Simmons25 wrote:
Between 50,000 to 80,000 people die from the flu in the US every year... and we are reacting to 5 dying from the Coronavirus strain?

Yes its slightly more easily transmittable at a rate of infecting 2.2 compared to the normal flu of 1.3 and yeah the death rate is about 1.4% (not the 2%+ being reported) compared to 0.1% of the normal flu... but even the scientists have admitted that the 1.4% death rate could be wildly inaccurate because there are who knows how many cases where people had mild symptoms and it wasn't reported. Could very well be that Coronavirus is closer to the 0.1% than the 1.4% they are now reporting.

At this stage cancelling games, seasons or playing in front of no crowd seems like a bit of an overreaction.


This is a common argument that is brought up. That is, people compare number of deaths in other aspects of life (e.g. flu, car accidents) and try to minimize the risk of coronavirus. This is comparing apples to oranges because something like the flu have relatively low variance when it comes to how much damage that it can do. We understand the risks that comes with some of these old issues and as such they cannot turn into a pandemic. We cannot suddenly have a surge in number of car accidents due to some weird reason. However, coronavirus is different in that it is highly contagious and the mortality rate is high. As such, this can spiral into a disaster if everyone is not careful.

We have a hero, you posted on realgm in march about coronavirus.

What did you do in your personal life way ahead of time to make a difference that others are not?

I am not even sure what you are trying to argue here. There are a group of people who thought that this was a serious matter from the get go whereas there were a group of people who thought that this wasn't a big deal. Are you trying to imply that the first group did not have the correct attitude when it comes to this particular pandemic? If everyone was wired like the first group, coronavirus would not be as a big problem right now, right? Or are you even denying this?

[LKN]

Read on Twitter

Screw Disney. Most greedy company on the planet.

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Been keeping an eye on their stock... already trading at 2014 levels. Could be a great buy soonish

[Nuntius]

I just dont think it would have made a difference. Making a whole country actually listen and stay home or close buisnesses and schools before the outbreak arrived probably wasnt going to happen anyways.

People still dont listen and its everywhere now. What makes anyone think they would follow strict orders and stop this back in Jan? Civilians wouldnt have took it serious back then without the fear they have now.

That's not a good excuse, imo. A government has a responsibility towards its civilians. In times like this you have to warn them of the danger. A lot of governments failed to do that. When the leaders take it lightly then don't be surprised when the people do the exact same.

I mean putting a travel ban on China seemed extreme to many at the time and fear mongering. I just dont think the people as a whole would have ever took it serious enough to make a difference without fearing it at their front door like now.

The travel ban on China seemed that way due to Trump's history with travel bans. Besides, South Korea proved that you don't need a total travel ban to handle it. They handled it just by banning travel from the Hubei region (the epicenter). All other travel between the countries continued as normal and that's something that drew a lot of criticism from the populace. And yet, it worked.

But that's enough about the travel bans. My point isn't related to them anyway. My point is that it simply doesn't matter if the people would have took it serious enough to make a difference or not. As a government you have to take it seriously and warned your populace. It's your duty to do so. Not doing so is a failure.

[Bandit King]

I gotta say, i dunno how we move forward without a vaccine. Even if the quarantine works, isnt it just gonna come storming back after we go back to business as usual?

After some time it healthy your body will completely fight off the virus and get rid of it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Uhh the virus doesn't die that quickly. Still remains half alive for some time!

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/coronavirus-recovery-what-happens-after-covid19/

Am I still infectious after recovering?

Probably to some extent, though the first batch of studies is far from conclusive as to how long it lasts. Provisional research from Germany has suggested that COVID-19 infectiousness – in contrast to the 2003 SARS outbreak – peaks early and that recovering patients with mild symptoms become low-risk around 10 days after they first fall ill. But another study, following four medical professionals treated at a Wuhan hospital, revealed that traces of the virus could persist in the body for up to two weeks after symptoms had vanished; as the patients were no longer coughing or sneezing, the potential means of transmission were albeit much reduced. Less optimistic was a study published last week in The Lancet medical journal that showed the virus survived in one Chinese patient’s respiratory tract for 37 days – well above the average of 24 days for those with critical disease status.

[MotownMadness]

These are the posts I've made on this forum in early March when NBA season was still on and not many people in the US was taking the coronavirus seriously.
_______________

Re: Coronavirus cancel games?
2
#16 » by mtron929 » Tue Mar 3, 2020 3:21 am

Yeah, don't worry about the players. It's the fans. At this point, NO ONE should be going to concerts/sporting events/etc where there are dense number of people in small space for a lenghty period of time.
_______________

"This is simplistic way of thinking. There is a huge spectrum in between quarantining yourself and not moving outside of your room for a year and going about your business as usual. Avoiding sporting games, concerts, clubs, etc. and any crowded places is something that one should do for cautionary purposes for a while. I mean, are people addicted to going out like cocaine such that they must do it?"

_____________________

Re: Coronavirus cancel games?
4
#37 » by mtron929 » Tue Mar 3, 2020 4:59 am

Simmons25 wrote:
Between 50,000 to 80,000 people die from the flu in the US every year... and we are reacting to 5 dying from the Coronavirus strain?

Yes its slightly more easily transmittable at a rate of infecting 2.2 compared to the normal flu of 1.3 and yeah the death rate is about 1.4% (not the 2%+ being reported) compared to 0.1% of the normal flu... but even the scientists have admitted that the 1.4% death rate could be wildly inaccurate because there are who knows how many cases where people had mild symptoms and it wasn't reported. Could very well be that Coronavirus is closer to the 0.1% than the 1.4% they are now reporting.

At this stage cancelling games, seasons or playing in front of no crowd seems like a bit of an overreaction.


This is a common argument that is brought up. That is, people compare number of deaths in other aspects of life (e.g. flu, car accidents) and try to minimize the risk of coronavirus. This is comparing apples to oranges because something like the flu have relatively low variance when it comes to how much damage that it can do. We understand the risks that comes with some of these old issues and as such they cannot turn into a pandemic. We cannot suddenly have a surge in number of car accidents due to some weird reason. However, coronavirus is different in that it is highly contagious and the mortality rate is high. As such, this can spiral into a disaster if everyone is not careful.

We have a hero, you posted on realgm in march about coronavirus.

What did you do in your personal life way ahead of time to make a difference that others are not?

I am not even sure what you are trying to argue here. There are a group of people who thought that this was a serious matter from the get go whereas there were a group of people who thought that this wasn't a big deal. Are you trying to imply that the first group did not have the correct attitude when it comes to this particular pandemic? If everyone was wired like the first group, coronavirus would not be as a big problem right now, right? Or are you even denying this?

Obviously but you patting yourself like some hero and blaming everyone else is pretty funny. You talked on the internet about it but personally made no difference in real life to be placing blame on other people.

I just dont know where your going with this aside from a personal attack on me like i was out here spreading the thing around. Hell by the time of your post i was also taking it pretty serious with 3 kids home from school for the year.

Congrats though on the realgm posts

[OkcSinceSGA]

This feels like WWII in the sense of businesses. There are hero businesses that have decided to help manufacture us out of this crises like Haynes, 3M, Ford, GM to make masks, protective gear etc. Then you see the worst in companies like Disney+Boeing whining about their profit losses.

[Fairview4Life]

This feels like WWII in the sense of businesses. There are hero businesses that have decided to help manufacture us out of this crises like Haynes, 3M, Ford, GM to make masks, protective gear etc. Then you see the worst in companies like Disney+Boeing whining about their profit losses.

Some companies are better suited to quickly switching to necessary production though. Not sure Disney is, for example.

[MotownMadness]

That's not a good excuse, imo. A government has a responsibility towards its civilians. In times like this you have to warn them of the danger. A lot of governments failed to do that. When the leaders take it lightly then don't be surprised when the people do the exact same.

I mean putting a travel ban on China seemed extreme to many at the time and fear mongering. I just dont think the people as a whole would have ever took it serious enough to make a difference without fearing it at their front door like now.

The travel ban on China seemed that way due to Trump's history with travel bans. Besides, South Korea proved that you don't need a total travel ban to handle it. They handled it just by banning travel from the Hubei region (the epicenter). All other travel between the countries continued as normal and that's something that drew a lot of criticism from the populace. And yet, it worked.

But that's enough about the travel bans. My point isn't related to them anyway. My point is that it simply doesn't matter if the people would have took it serious enough to make a difference or not. As a government you have to take it seriously and warned your populace. It's your duty to do so. Not doing so is a failure.

Right but if the people dont listen then what difference does it make.

Trump would have been ripped to shreads if he shut down everyones schools, buisnesses and locked them in their homes back in Dec-Jan.

I just drove up to McDonald's and theres still people out everywhere

[Optimus_Steel]

Read on Twitter

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I have mixed feelings about this. Does testing need to be ramped up, definitely. However Walmart handling this make feel queasy due their history, how they've treated their employees and their communities. Ultimately this is something the Federal government should have overtaken and ramped up.

[Pointgod]

Firstly, Korea had its outbreak over a month before the US, so you can't compare the results yet. Will there be a second wave in Korea when everyone goes back into society?


Is Fauci not an expert? Resources were made rapidly available, you can bring in experts whenever the crisis happens. Again, nothing is unique to the USA that isn't happening around the rest of the world. Everyone is screwed!



Oh ok. You just want to debate South Korea vs. USA on this beautiful Saturday morning because it fits your political narrative.

"I have no interest in debating how other countries are doing poorly. I will only debate with you on South Korea because it makes my argument seem logical"

I am not sure what you mean by Koreans getting back into society. We don't have a quarantine here. When there was initial reports saying that this thing could spread, everyone as a collective worried and there was none of these "just the flu" bros here. So while people were not quarantined, from that point forward, (1) 90+% of people wore masks (2) people voluntarily cancelled all events (3) people practiced social distancing and (4) the government tracked down all the people who came down with the coronavirus and informed the whereabouts of their locations to the relevant people in the cities. If Korea had someone like Trump as the president, with the close vicinity to China (there are LOTS of people who go back and forth between Korean and China), and with extremely dense population (one of the most dense populated countries in the world), this country would have been absolutely destroyed.

Look, you can't say that if anyone was the President of another country, they would govern the same way. Each country has a unique set of risks that get prioritized. Pandemic was obviously a bigger risk in SK than in the USA. It's not surprising that SK was more prepared for a pandemic.
Nobody is saying that Trump is perfect. I am just trying to see how the USA is different from every other country that is going through this crisis? I use Canada as an example, because it's similar to the USA in terms of geographical location, and demographics. Canada is having the exact same issues as the US right now. If anything, Trudeau was slower to react than Trump. He only recently closed the borders to all countries. The reality is people just hate Trump, and will use any crisis as a cudgel to beat him with. The current outcome was inevitable in the USA, regardless of who was in charge.

I made the point earlier that if Trump had been aggressive on isolation 3 weeks ago, he would have been called an authoritarian dictator. It would be nice to see the Americans who hate Trump use this as a time to bring everyone together, but again they use it to divide the country even further when this is a time we need to come together. Trump is not perfect, but there is nothing to suggest that if Joe Biden was in charge everything would be under control.

That’s simply not true. You can look up Obama’s response to Ebola to Trumps response to the coronavirus and make a direct comparison. There’s a reason that Ebola was actually contained worldwide under Obama and why it wasn’t worse in the US. Leadership matters and you can ask any of the governors dealing with this that there’s actually no direction from the Federal government. Every one is doing things on their own. Let’s not get into politics because there’s no way with a straight face that anyone can accuse other people of playing politics with this. Focusing on leadership and the response shows that this has been a **** show because of who’s been at the top. I can provide multiple examples of the lack of clear direction and coordination.

[Ayt]

I know Korea is plateauing. They still went into lockdown to achieve this. So what exactly could Trump have done to prevent this pandemic from becoming a problem in America? The same things are happening around the world. Canada is going to lockdown. Everything is closed. Canadian hospitals are not prepared for the tsunami of sick people that are coming. Yet Trudeau is praised for how he is handling this in the press, and Trump is ripped by all the same people who wanted to impeach him and wanted to pin Russian election interference on him. There is nothing to suggest that anyone else would have mitigated this any further. If 3 weeks ago, Trump had ordered Americans to stay in their homes, he would have been called an authoritarian dictator by the same people who called him racist for closing the border to China over a month ago.

Canada has tested roughly as many people as the US despite having 10% of the population

If your sick and looking like you have Corona virus you can get a test. You basically cant just go grab one for self reassurance if thats what peoole are so concerned about with the testing.

Or am i wrong and we have people showing symptoms and going to the hospital to be rejected for a test

Dr. Fauci on the 12th.

"The system is not really geared to what we need right now," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in a House hearing about coronavirus test kits in the United States, which were initially dogged by technical glitches. "That is a failing. Let's admit it."

Fauci was responding to a question from Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Florida, who asked about a claim by trade organization National Nurses United alleging that "countless" health care workers exposed to the coronavirus have been refused a test for it.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/it-failing-let-s-admit-it-fauci-says-coronavirus-testing-n1157036

Dr. Fauci yesterday.

Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said Friday that “more needs to be done” to make coronavirus testing widely available across the United States, even as the Trump administration ramps up its efforts to check Americans for exposure to the illness.

“Clearly, more needs to be done, but we are rapidly getting to the point where we will have many, many tests out there available for virtually everyone,” Fauci said in an interview on NBC's “Today” show.

“Early on, as I’ve said, it wasn’t the way it should’ve been. But we’re really now very much in the right direction, flooding the system with it,” Fauci said Friday. “There are going to be people, for sure, who will call in and say they can’t get tested. It’s not a perfect system yet, but we’re getting there very rapidly.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/20/fauci-clearly-more-needs-to-be-done-on-coronavirus-testing-138636

People with clear symptoms aren't being tested in LA, for example.

C.A. Lim woke Friday in her Venice apartment with a fever, dry cough, aching muscles, and a tightness in her chest like a corset she couldn’t take off.

At a Kaiser urgent care clinic, a physician and an infectious disease specialist told the 33-year-old nonprofit executive that she “clearly” had COVID-19, but that they couldn’t spare a test to confirm the diagnosis because she was not elderly or otherwise a high-risk patient.

“The doctor encouraged me to reach out to everyone I have been within six feet of within the past 10 days, and let them know I have COVID,” Lim recounted in an email. She and her husband immediately quarantined themselves and began calling, texting and emailing friends, colleagues and relatives, ultimately alerting some 60 to 70 people about the potential exposure.

Two co-workers she had crossed paths with at a training session in New York subsequently told her they also had come down with the coronavirus, she said.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-19/coronavirus-patients-not-tested-not-counted

[Fairview4Life]

I mean putting a travel ban on China seemed extreme to many at the time and fear mongering. I just dont think the people as a whole would have ever took it serious enough to make a difference without fearing it at their front door like now.

The travel ban on China seemed that way due to Trump's history with travel bans. Besides, South Korea proved that you don't need a total travel ban to handle it. They handled it just by banning travel from the Hubei region (the epicenter). All other travel between the countries continued as normal and that's something that drew a lot of criticism from the populace. And yet, it worked.

But that's enough about the travel bans. My point isn't related to them anyway. My point is that it simply doesn't matter if the people would have took it serious enough to make a difference or not. As a government you have to take it seriously and warned your populace. It's your duty to do so. Not doing so is a failure.

Right but if the people dont listen then what difference does it make.

Trump would have been ripped to shreads if he shut down everyones schools, buisnesses and locked them in their homes back in Dec-Jan.

I just drove up to McDonald's and theres still people out everywhere

He still hasn’t done that, fyi. And Dec/Jan is a long way from when it still would have been useful, rather than lying to the public about it.

[rapstarter]

Read on Twitter

Things are still looking terrible for Italy.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Read on Twitter

Damn.

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[First Step]

I am not sure what you mean by Koreans getting back into society. We don't have a quarantine here. When there was initial reports saying that this thing could spread, everyone as a collective worried and there was none of these "just the flu" bros here. So while people were not quarantined, from that point forward, (1) 90+% of people wore masks (2) people voluntarily cancelled all events (3) people practiced social distancing and (4) the government tracked down all the people who came down with the coronavirus and informed the whereabouts of their locations to the relevant people in the cities. If Korea had someone like Trump as the president, with the close vicinity to China (there are LOTS of people who go back and forth between Korean and China), and with extremely dense population (one of the most dense populated countries in the world), this country would have been absolutely destroyed.

Look, you can't say that if anyone was the President of another country, they would govern the same way. Each country has a unique set of risks that get prioritized. Pandemic was obviously a bigger risk in SK than in the USA. It's not surprising that SK was more prepared for a pandemic.
Nobody is saying that Trump is perfect. I am just trying to see how the USA is different from every other country that is going through this crisis? I use Canada as an example, because it's similar to the USA in terms of geographical location, and demographics. Canada is having the exact same issues as the US right now. If anything, Trudeau was slower to react than Trump. He only recently closed the borders to all countries. The reality is people just hate Trump, and will use any crisis as a cudgel to beat him with. The current outcome was inevitable in the USA, regardless of who was in charge.

I made the point earlier that if Trump had been aggressive on isolation 3 weeks ago, he would have been called an authoritarian dictator. It would be nice to see the Americans who hate Trump use this as a time to bring everyone together, but again they use it to divide the country even further when this is a time we need to come together. Trump is not perfect, but there is nothing to suggest that if Joe Biden was in charge everything would be under control.

But Trump did a very **** job on how he downplayed this whole thing from the beginning. And you and I know that the only reason why he downplayed it was that he thought that it was a FUD that would affect the stock market and that was all he had in mind. Basically, if he was at least open-minded about these type of possibilities (which I think most presidents should be), then he would have brought a different attitude towards this whole issue months ago. Also, US should be better than other countries. The US has the best scientists and the brightest people working on variety of issues. I don't get why you need to grade him on a stupid curve when he (as a leader of the greatest country in the world) should be better than others. You have Kobe Bryant as your logo image. What would Bryant say when it seems like you are making excuses?

You’re still not proving that things would be any different under different leadership. It’s no different in the UK, Germany, France, Canada, Italy etc. In fact, it’s worse in many of those regions.

You’re correct that the USA has the best scientists. They have been working on this since January. Trump doesn’t dictate everything that happens in the country.

[Pointgod]

I mean putting a travel ban on China seemed extreme to many at the time and fear mongering. I just dont think the people as a whole would have ever took it serious enough to make a difference without fearing it at their front door like now.

The travel ban on China seemed that way due to Trump's history with travel bans. Besides, South Korea proved that you don't need a total travel ban to handle it. They handled it just by banning travel from the Hubei region (the epicenter). All other travel between the countries continued as normal and that's something that drew a lot of criticism from the populace. And yet, it worked.

But that's enough about the travel bans. My point isn't related to them anyway. My point is that it simply doesn't matter if the people would have took it serious enough to make a difference or not. As a government you have to take it seriously and warned your populace. It's your duty to do so. Not doing so is a failure.

Right but if the people dont listen then what difference does it make.

Trump would have been ripped to shreads if he shut down everyones schools, buisnesses and locked them in their homes back in Dec-Jan.

I just drove up to McDonald's and theres still people out everywhere

Actually what they needed was testing and tracking from early on. As someone pointed out South Korea is not under quarantine but rather the population took steps to combat this early on and they ramped up testing.

If Trump has listened to the experts then not only would the US be in a better position he’d rightly be getting credit for taking the right steps to contain the pandemic. But because he’s a narcissistic idiot and man baby he doesn’t listen to experts and then blames everyone else for his failures.

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

Damn.

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Jesus this is heart breaking.

[MotownMadness]

Canada has tested roughly as many people as the US despite having 10% of the population

If your sick and looking like you have Corona virus you can get a test. You basically cant just go grab one for self reassurance if thats what peoole are so concerned about with the testing.

Or am i wrong and we have people showing symptoms and going to the hospital to be rejected for a test

Dr. Fauci on the 12th.

"The system is not really geared to what we need right now," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in a House hearing about coronavirus test kits in the United States, which were initially dogged by technical glitches. "That is a failing. Let's admit it."

Fauci was responding to a question from Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Florida, who asked about a claim by trade organization National Nurses United alleging that "countless" health care workers exposed to the coronavirus have been refused a test for it.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/it-failing-let-s-admit-it-fauci-says-coronavirus-testing-n1157036

Dr. Fauci yesterday.

Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said Friday that “more needs to be done” to make coronavirus testing widely available across the United States, even as the Trump administration ramps up its efforts to check Americans for exposure to the illness.

“Clearly, more needs to be done, but we are rapidly getting to the point where we will have many, many tests out there available for virtually everyone,” Fauci said in an interview on NBC's “Today” show.

“Early on, as I’ve said, it wasn’t the way it should’ve been. But we’re really now very much in the right direction, flooding the system with it,” Fauci said Friday. “There are going to be people, for sure, who will call in and say they can’t get tested. It’s not a perfect system yet, but we’re getting there very rapidly.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/20/fauci-clearly-more-needs-to-be-done-on-coronavirus-testing-138636

People with clear symptoms aren't being tested in LA, for example.

C.A. Lim woke Friday in her Venice apartment with a fever, dry cough, aching muscles, and a tightness in her chest like a corset she couldn’t take off.

At a Kaiser urgent care clinic, a physician and an infectious disease specialist told the 33-year-old nonprofit executive that she “clearly” had COVID-19, but that they couldn’t spare a test to confirm the diagnosis because she was not elderly or otherwise a high-risk patient.

“The doctor encouraged me to reach out to everyone I have been within six feet of within the past 10 days, and let them know I have COVID,” Lim recounted in an email. She and her husband immediately quarantined themselves and began calling, texting and emailing friends, colleagues and relatives, ultimately alerting some 60 to 70 people about the potential exposure.

Two co-workers she had crossed paths with at a training session in New York subsequently told her they also had come down with the coronavirus, she said.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-19/coronavirus-patients-not-tested-not-counted

I stand corrected, the Gov of NY is lying through his teeth then cause he just said this morning if you show symptoms of the virus you can get tested.

[Courtside]

I am not sure what you mean by Koreans getting back into society. We don't have a quarantine here. When there was initial reports saying that this thing could spread, everyone as a collective worried and there was none of these "just the flu" bros here. So while people were not quarantined, from that point forward, (1) 90+% of people wore masks (2) people voluntarily cancelled all events (3) people practiced social distancing and (4) the government tracked down all the people who came down with the coronavirus and informed the whereabouts of their locations to the relevant people in the cities. If Korea had someone like Trump as the president, with the close vicinity to China (there are LOTS of people who go back and forth between Korean and China), and with extremely dense population (one of the most dense populated countries in the world), this country would have been absolutely destroyed.

Look, you can't say that if anyone was the President of another country, they would govern the same way. Each country has a unique set of risks that get prioritized. Pandemic was obviously a bigger risk in SK than in the USA. It's not surprising that SK was more prepared for a pandemic.
Nobody is saying that Trump is perfect. I am just trying to see how the USA is different from every other country that is going through this crisis? I use Canada as an example, because it's similar to the USA in terms of geographical location, and demographics. Canada is having the exact same issues as the US right now. If anything, Trudeau was slower to react than Trump. He only recently closed the borders to all countries. The reality is people just hate Trump, and will use any crisis as a cudgel to beat him with. The current outcome was inevitable in the USA, regardless of who was in charge.

I made the point earlier that if Trump had been aggressive on isolation 3 weeks ago, he would have been called an authoritarian dictator. It would be nice to see the Americans who hate Trump use this as a time to bring everyone together, but again they use it to divide the country even further when this is a time we need to come together. Trump is not perfect, but there is nothing to suggest that if Joe Biden was in charge everything would be under control.

But Trump did a very **** job on how he downplayed this whole thing from the beginning. And you and I know that the only reason why he downplayed it was that he thought that it was a FUD that would affect the stock market and that was all he had in mind. Basically, if he was at least open-minded about these type of possibilities (which I think most presidents should be), then he would have brought a different attitude towards this whole issue months ago. Also, US should be better than other countries. The US has the best scientists and the brightest people working on variety of issues. I don't get why you need to grade him on a stupid curve when he (as a leader of the greatest country in the world) should be better than others. You have Kobe Bryant as your logo image. What would Bryant say when it seems like you are making excuses?

Guys, please stop derailing the thread with this extended Trump talk. Take it to the CA board so we don't get this one locked too.

[First Step]

Okay, so you admit they did a better job than us. That is my initial point here, buddy. You decided to then turn this into some Trump-Defense grid when I never attacked Trump in the first place.

Firstly, Korea had its outbreak over a month before the US, so you can't compare the results yet. Will there be a second wave in Korea when everyone goes back into society?

That just means that Korea was slower to testing the first case than the States. Korea's outbreak was well before the USAs. Stop trying to be a smart ass. The data isn't comparable yet.

You are telling someone else to stop being a smart ass while just making things up?

Go look at reports. You can see Korea was dealing with a much severe outbreak a month ago. What's next, Wuhan and the States got it on the same day?