What if Mike Jordan never retires in 1998?

[ChettheJet]

I think the team could have matured into a different team but would have still won, maybe three more.

Phil would have stayed, maybe taking a lighter load with the same assistant coaches, Hamblin doing more.
Likely Rodman stayed, he was doing well financially off the court by being based in Chicago and getting a handle on exploiting his celebrity status.

Harper, Brown and Kerr were fine at the PG next to Michael
They could have signed a minimum veteran behind Michael or stuck with Jud Buechler and Kerr
Longley and Wennington needed one more backup center because Rodman and Kukoc could go small
Pippen at the SF would have been the same, might have seen minutes at the SG, Kukoc would have had a larger role, with backing up Rodman
Rodman backed up by Kukoc and somebody new

I'd imagine they look for replacements for Caffey, Kleine, Simpkins, Burrell, maybe younger veterans that didn't rise to what their draft status was but they would only need to fill 12-18 minute roles on a championship team, that would suit a lot of guys. One dimensional guys because surrounded by the rest of the rotation one dimension is all they needed to bring with them.

[Mazter]

Phil would have stayed, maybe taking a lighter load with the same assistant coaches, Hamblin doing more.
Likely Rodman stayed, he was doing well financially off the court by being based in Chicago and getting a handle on exploiting his celebrity status.

Phil was already gone when Jordan retired. Probably one of the reasons Jordan retired, he knew it was not going to be the same and harder without Phil.

[reflex35]

I have the opinion that there will be the same amount of titles or less.

Bulls and MJ would burn-out.

There's a reason that you don't see six-peat. It's too difficult to achieve. That year or two gave MJ some rest from the basketball and a need to prove it again.

Those who think that Bulls would be going for 7-8 chips streak are insane.

[BigtimeNBAfan]

I have the opinion that there will be the same amount of titles or less.

Bulls and MJ would burn-out.

There's a reason that you don't see six-peat. It's too difficult to achieve. That year or two gave MJ some rest from the basketball and a need to prove it again.

Those who think that Bulls would be going for 7-8 chips streak are insane.

They obviously wouldn't have 8 peated since Jordan played and put up championship caliber numbers and they lost in the second round in 95. The whole Jordan would have 8 peated is one of thise nba myths since he literally lost during that run.

[Mazter]

LeBron would have 66% less titles without Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving, I think he needed them just as much.

Not just them, he had more help than any all time great player.

The 96 Bulls:
The best first option in the league in Jordan
The best second option in the league in Pippen
The best third option in the league in Rodman
Arguably the best but at least a top-3 4th option in the league in Harper
An at least top-5 fifth option in the league in Longley
The best sixth man in the league in Kukoc
One of the best 3-point shooters in the league as 7th option in Kerr

Talking about more help...

LeBron had at best the best 2nd and 3rd option in the league in his first 2 Heat years. Personally I don't even see Bosh as a great third option, he was just a good first option on an average team. From 4th to 10th option, besides a spark here and there, it was all mediocre to average along the years for LeBron.

[The4thHorseman]

The Bulls core was going to be dismantled. Phil Jackson was also leaving. Everyone knew it. So it doesn't really matter if Jordan stayed or not, the Bulls were done.

8 straight titles if he didn't retire the first time though.

No

He couldn't even play more than 3 straight Finals w/o having to take a break. After 1998, he said he was mentally and physically exhausted. That's only after 3 straight Finals with almost a 2yr rest.

[dickfox]

The only acceptable time to call him "Mike" is when you sing the song "I wanna be like, Mike".

It's like calling Leonardo da Vinci, "Leo" or Michelangelo di Lodovico Buonarroti Simoni, "Mike" or Donato di Niccolò di Betto Bardi, better known as Donatello, "Donny" or Raffaello Sanzio da Urbino, known as Raphael, "Raph".

Having said that, Mike would have gone on to win another title or two with Scott Pippen, Denny Rodman, Steven Kerr, Lucas Longley, and Richard Simpkins with Philip Jackson coaching that nutty crew. Then they would have gone out for a pizza party.

Cowabunga!

[BigtimeNBAfan]

The Bulls core was going to be dismantled. Phil Jackson was also leaving. Everyone knew it. So it doesn't really matter if Jordan stayed or not, the Bulls were done.

8 straight titles if he didn't retire the first time though.

No

He couldn't even play more than 3 straight Finals w/o having to take a break. After 1998, he said he was mentally and physically exhausted. That's only after 3 straight Finals with almost a 2yr rest.

And he literally didn't 8peat.

It is so weird the 95 playoffs gets brushed aside like it didn't exist when talking about Jordan's legacy. Again his numbers were better in the 95 playoffs than in the 96 playoffs. He just didn't get it done in the clutch and the Bulls were not as good without a Horace Grant or a Dennis Rodman. I guess you could argue had Jordan not retired the first time they don't get rid of Horace Grant, but people need to quit acting like the 95 playoffs don't exist.

[Optms]

The Bulls core was going to be dismantled. Phil Jackson was also leaving. Everyone knew it. So it doesn't really matter if Jordan stayed or not, the Bulls were done.

8 straight titles if he didn't retire the first time though.

No

He couldn't even play more than 3 straight Finals w/o having to take a break. After 1998, he said he was mentally and physically exhausted. That's only after 3 straight Finals with almost a 2yr rest.

And he literally didn't 8peat.

It is so weird the 95 playoffs gets brushed aside like it didn't exist when talking about Jordan's legacy. Again his numbers were better in the 95 playoffs than in the 96 playoffs. He just didn't get it done in the clutch and the Bulls were not as good without a Horace Grant or a Dennis Rodman. I guess you could argue had Jordan not retired the first time they don't get rid of Horace Grant, but people need to quit acting like the 95 playoffs don't exist.

Every advanced statistically literately indicates his 1996 playoff production was superior. Overwhelmingly so that I'm not sure how you can even bring yourself to make such a false statement.

And no one cares about 1995. Jordan hadn't played in 2 years and came back late in the season. Everyone knows that was a fluke because just less than 6 months later they went on to have one of the most dominant runs in sports history.

Its certainly possible the Bulls don't win 8 straight. But you cannot convince me they don't at least win 7 with no Jordan retirement. There is no way in hell the Bulls with a prime Jordan go 2 years straight without a title. Zero chance.

[twyzted]

LeBron would have 66% less titles without Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving, I think he needed them just as much.

Not just them, he had more help than any all time great player.

The 96 Bulls:
The best first option in the league in Jordan
The best second option in the league in Pippen
The best third option in the league in Rodman
Arguably the best but at least a top-3 4th option in the league in Harper
An at least top-5 fifth option in the league in Longley
The best sixth man in the league in Kukoc
One of the best 3-point shooters in the league as 7th option in Kerr

Talking about more help...

LeBron had at best the best 2nd and 3rd option in the league in his first 2 Heat years. Personally I don't even see Bosh as a great third option, he was just a good first option on an average team. From 4th to 10th option, besides a spark here and there, it was all mediocre to average along the years for LeBron.

Rodman was a good defender and a rebounder but almost useless in offence and also he was so good that the bulls had to give up will perdue who had been averaging 2-8 ppg, 1-6 rbpg, as a garbage mintue player for his whole bulls career except for 95. Harper was an inefficient player who played bench minutes having shane battier as 4th option would be better than Harper, not like steve kerr was better than chalmers he was a 3 point specialist who was shooting .18% from 3 points in the 96 finals yeah what an asset to have.

Pippen never averaged more than 21ppg in those final runs, Lebron had Kyrie averageing 27 and 29 ppg, shooting 47%, 40%, 90% in 16-17 finals. And sure it must be terrible to have Bosh as an 3rd option.

[BigtimeNBAfan]

No

He couldn't even play more than 3 straight Finals w/o having to take a break. After 1998, he said he was mentally and physically exhausted. That's only after 3 straight Finals with almost a 2yr rest.

And he literally didn't 8peat.

It is so weird the 95 playoffs gets brushed aside like it didn't exist when talking about Jordan's legacy. Again his numbers were better in the 95 playoffs than in the 96 playoffs. He just didn't get it done in the clutch and the Bulls were not as good without a Horace Grant or a Dennis Rodman. I guess you could argue had Jordan not retired the first time they don't get rid of Horace Grant, but people need to quit acting like the 95 playoffs don't exist.

Every advanced statistically literately indicates his 1996 playoff production was superior. Overwhelmingly so that I'm not sure how you can even bring yourself to make such a false statement.

And no one cares about 1995. Jordan hadn't played in 2 years and came back late in the season. Everyone knows that was a fluke because just less than 6 months later they went on to have one of the most dominant runs in sports history.

Its certainly possible the Bulls don't win 8 straight. But you cannot convince me they don't at least win 7 with no Jordan retirement. There is no way in hell the Bulls with a prime Jordan go 2 years straight without a title. Zero chance.

Lmao at "no one cares about the 95 playoffs." Sure people who try and say he would win 8 straight don't care since it literally disproves whatever argument they are trying to make. Jordan did play in the 95 playoffs and lost in the second round.

Michael Jordan in the 95 playoffs averaged 31.5 ppg on 48% shooting, 6.5 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 2.3 steals and 1.4 blocks a game.
Michael Jordan in the 96 playoffs averaged 30.4 ppg on 49% shooting, 6.6 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 2.2 steals, and .5 blocks a game.

Statistcally he was basically the same player. Sorry he didn't get it done. Was he better in 96? Yes in key spots, but are we really at the point of making excuses for Michael Freaking Jordan? He averaged 31 a game against the Magic and had 3 games of 38 or more, but somehow this series doesn't count? He was still a superstar, his team just didn't get it done. The whole rust thing doesn't fly here. It is actually kind of funny how showing Michael Jordan played at a high level hurts the argument that we should just throw out the 95 playoffs, but here we are.

The real reason the Bulls won the title in 96 is because of the addition of Rodman. Without Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman the Bulls were not as good and were exploited by the 4 and 5 as they were already weak at those spots. Horace Grant was actually a big reason why the Magic beat the Bulls in 95. He played well and the Bulls didn't have an answer for him. The next year in 96 the Bulls had Rodman and the Magic lost Grant to injury in game one which made a sweep possible.

[SmashMouthRod]

Michael retired because he was burnt out after three straight years of playing long seasons and winning the finals. He probably loses to Orlando, New York or Indy after the first three peat; if the team doesnt implode with injuries and miss the playoffs altogether similarly to the Warriors after three straight years of playing so much basketball. At the time Penny Hardaway and Shaq were emerging as great players. Ironically the first year of Michael's retirement the Magic made the finals and lost to Houston. Orlando also eliminated Michael and the bulls in his first season back with the team wearing the number 45. The Magic probably underachieved as a team in that era because their role players such as Nick Anderson, 3D and their bench was inconsistent especially when matched up against the Bulls and during their finals lost to the Rockets. As much credit as people give Michael Jordan and Pippen, they also got great production from their role players (Kukoc, Longley, Wennington, Kerr/Paxson, Armstrong/Harper, Rodman/Grant) consistently.

[durden_tyler]

No

He couldn't even play more than 3 straight Finals w/o having to take a break. After 1998, he said he was mentally and physically exhausted. That's only after 3 straight Finals with almost a 2yr rest.

And he literally didn't 8peat.

It is so weird the 95 playoffs gets brushed aside like it didn't exist when talking about Jordan's legacy. Again his numbers were better in the 95 playoffs than in the 96 playoffs. He just didn't get it done in the clutch and the Bulls were not as good without a Horace Grant or a Dennis Rodman. I guess you could argue had Jordan not retired the first time they don't get rid of Horace Grant, but people need to quit acting like the 95 playoffs don't exist.

Every advanced statistically literately indicates his 1996 playoff production was superior. Overwhelmingly so that I'm not sure how you can even bring yourself to make such a false statement.

And no one cares about 1995. Jordan hadn't played in 2 years and came back late in the season. Everyone knows that was a fluke because just less than 6 months later they went on to have one of the most dominant runs in sports history.

Its certainly possible the Bulls don't win 8 straight. But you cannot convince me they don't at least win 7 with no Jordan retirement. There is no way in hell the Bulls with a prime Jordan go 2 years straight without a title. Zero chance.

Eight would have been possible. Some guys are just confused. We are talking about Michael Jordan NOT LeBron James.

[Gooner]

Not just them, he had more help than any all time great player.

The 96 Bulls:
The best first option in the league in Jordan
The best second option in the league in Pippen
The best third option in the league in Rodman
Arguably the best but at least a top-3 4th option in the league in Harper
An at least top-5 fifth option in the league in Longley
The best sixth man in the league in Kukoc
One of the best 3-point shooters in the league as 7th option in Kerr

Talking about more help...

LeBron had at best the best 2nd and 3rd option in the league in his first 2 Heat years. Personally I don't even see Bosh as a great third option, he was just a good first option on an average team. From 4th to 10th option, besides a spark here and there, it was all mediocre to average along the years for LeBron.

Rodman was a good defender and a rebounder but almost useless in offence and also he was so good that the bulls had to give up will perdue who had been averaging 2-8 ppg, 1-6 rbpg, as a garbage mintue player for his whole bulls career except for 95. Harper was an inefficient player who played bench minutes having shane battier as 4th option would be better than Harper, not like steve kerr was better than chalmers he was a 3 point specialist who was shooting .18% from 3 points in the 96 finals yeah what an asset to have.

Pippen never averaged more than 21ppg in those final runs, Lebron had Kyrie averageing 27 and 29 ppg, shooting 47%, 40%, 90% in 16-17 finals. And sure it must be terrible to have Bosh as an 3rd option.

Chris Bosh? That's terrible, LeBron needs a better third option than that. He makes his teammates better, but there is nothing he can do with scrubs like Chris Bosh and banged up Dwyane Wade.

[Lakers In 5]

I am at completely certainty that if the Bulls, even if the team would have stayed intact, which I very much doubt, would not win again in 1999. They looked ready to be buried by a really good Pacers team in 1998, and it took every ounce of effort from Jordan and Pippen to squeeze by them. When a team is struggling, that is the moment you get to see how good they really are. That is why that sixth title is the most special to me, because they looked dead. Ready to get placed in a coffin, yet, they prevailed. The lockout in 98-99 could have been a moment to recharge, but they were like a tube of paste, and the list bit got squeezed out against the Pacers.

[BigtimeNBAfan]

And he literally didn't 8peat.

It is so weird the 95 playoffs gets brushed aside like it didn't exist when talking about Jordan's legacy. Again his numbers were better in the 95 playoffs than in the 96 playoffs. He just didn't get it done in the clutch and the Bulls were not as good without a Horace Grant or a Dennis Rodman. I guess you could argue had Jordan not retired the first time they don't get rid of Horace Grant, but people need to quit acting like the 95 playoffs don't exist.

Every advanced statistically literately indicates his 1996 playoff production was superior. Overwhelmingly so that I'm not sure how you can even bring yourself to make such a false statement.

And no one cares about 1995. Jordan hadn't played in 2 years and came back late in the season. Everyone knows that was a fluke because just less than 6 months later they went on to have one of the most dominant runs in sports history.

Its certainly possible the Bulls don't win 8 straight. But you cannot convince me they don't at least win 7 with no Jordan retirement. There is no way in hell the Bulls with a prime Jordan go 2 years straight without a title. Zero chance.

Eight would have been possible. Some guys are just confused. We are talking about Michael Jordan NOT LeBron James.

it wasnt possible because it literally didnt happen. The 95 playoffs happened whether you want to admit it or not. Jordans 31 ppg were not good enough and he wasnt going to win without a Rodman or horace grant. I have never argued LeBron was better than jordan, but lebron fans never try and literally erase series and pretend they didnt happen. Sure some will make excuses or blame teammates or injuries, but the way Jordan fans pretend a series he lost just doesnt count is embarrassing. He lost. His team wasnt good enough. He was jordan. He put up big number. I wonder if any of you during his 40 point game against the magic were saying "hey this doesnt count!" Quit making excuses for michael freaking jordan. It is pathetic.

[Ron Swanson]

So many variables go into this, but one thing I don't buy is that Jordan would have been too "burnt out" for another Finals run. He had clearly lost a step by '98, but Pippen and Rodman were more washed than he was (yet they still won 62-games), and people seem to be ignoring how the lockout shortened season in '98-99 would benefit an older Bulls team just like it benefited the Jazz and Spurs that year. Had they kept the band together I have no doubt they could make it through the East (gimme a break with this Pacers garbage when they got beat by an 8th seed Knicks team). The question for me is whether they would beat the Spurs. I think it's a toss-up, but I wouldn't bet against Jordan in the playoffs assuming he was still playing at an MVP caliber.

[KrAzY3]

I think the more realistic way of looking at it is if Jordan never retires the first time. I tend to think if he had a normal career, in that he didn't retire twice during what were still prime years, he wins about 8 titles. Could have been more, but hard to imagine less. He didn't let a Finals get to game 7, so when he got there he closed the deal.

[Jordan Stopper]

LeBron would have 66% less titles without Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving, I think he needed them just as much.

Not just them, he had more help than any all time great player.

The 96 Bulls:
The best first option in the league in Jordan
The best second option in the league in Pippen
The best third option in the league in Rodman
Arguably the best but at least a top-3 4th option in the league in Harper
An at least top-5 fifth option in the league in Longley
The best sixth man in the league in Kukoc
One of the best 3-point shooters in the league as 7th option in Kerr

Talking about more help...

LeBron had at best the best 2nd and 3rd option in the league in his first 2 Heat years. Personally I don't even see Bosh as a great third option, he was just a good first option on an average team. From 4th to 10th option, besides a spark here and there, it was all mediocre to average along the years for LeBron.

These weren't true heading into their first season though.
this is all with the benefit of hindsight.
Rodman was the best third option for the Bulls, yeah but the league? Nobody wanted anything to do with him at that time.
Longley is a guy who blew every second layup he took.

A lot of their reputation and status was due to playing with MJ and pip.

[The4thHorseman]

The better question would be "what if it were Scottie who walked away in 1993 instead of MJ and replaced in the starting lineup with the same calibre type player that replaced MJ. A 6th round pick who puts up 8-2-3 that's never been on an All-star team or All-NBA team. Does MJ lead them to 55wins and a game 7 in the ECSF like Pippen did?