Worst Championship Team Since 2007?

[dhsilv2]

Raptors. The shot of Kawhi in game 7 vs the Sixers, the OT win against the Bucks in game 3 of the ECF and warriors injuries in the Finals changed history. Congrats to them ofc but the question is simple.

08 celtics had to go 7 games in the first AND second round. That was in a much weaker east than the raptors faced. Don't get me wrong, raptors fans going crazy, but hard to call them out when boston struggled against far worse teams.

[Stan]

2019 Raps are one of the greatest of all time. The Raps playoff run was among the best runs in all of sports history.

Definitely an objective take here

[MixedUp]

Funny how every championship LeBron has been in cannot be in the discussion for worst championship.. I wonder why..

Which one is the worst? I left out ones who had no chance to be the worst such as '09 Lakers, '12 and '13 Heat, '14 Spurs, '16 Cavs, '17 and '18 Warriors.

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[dhsilv2]

Funny how every championship LeBron has been in cannot be in the discussion for worst championship.. I wonder why..

Which one is the worst? I left out ones who had no chance to be the worst such as '09 Lakers, '12 and '13 Heat, '14 Spurs, '16 Cavs, '17 and '18 Warriors.

Sent from my SM-A202F using RealGM mobile app

He wasn't on the 2016 cavs? Man...who was that then?

[KGtabake]

Raptors. The shot of Kawhi in game 7 vs the Sixers, the OT win against the Bucks in game 3 of the ECF and warriors injuries in the Finals changed history. Congrats to them ofc but the question is simple.

08 celtics had to go 7 games in the first AND second round. That was in a much weaker east than the raptors faced. Don't get me wrong, raptors fans going crazy, but hard to call them out when boston struggled against far worse teams.

We're not calling anyone out. There is a question on the thread and we're sharing our opinions.
To me Boston proved in the Finals it was the best team without any asterisks, injuries etc.
Surely, Boston also has the advantage of competing for 3 straight years(08-10) at the highest level which boosts that team's profile.
Toronto doesn't have that luxury yet due to the Covid 19.
A bit unfair certainly but it is what it is for all teams.

[yellowknifer]

2010 Lakers and it isn't that close really.

[rtiff68]

In before people say Raptors beat a healthy Warriors team in the regular season (even though in reality the Warriors coast and never tried in the regular season since their 73 win year.)

Just because the Raptors beat the Warriors without KD doesn't mean they "cheaped out" on a championship. Warriors with KD were considered one of the most stacked teams of all time and were still actually favoured to win by a majority without him. Yes, Klay got hurt too but the Raptors dominated most of the series with him playing too.

Raptors beat the Sixers and Bucks who most would consider one of the hardest paths to a NBA finals. Do Lebron's titles mean nothing because he was always able to sleep to a Finals appearance year after year? I'd argue that no team in the East had to go through 2 better teams in recent memory.

Raptors lost their best player (Kawhi), who many consider the best player in the NBA, and still have the 3rd best record right now. How many other teams from this list can do that? Either that means Kawhi is overrated or the Raptors cast is underrated. You can pick which one that is...

You make good points, except for the italicized/emboldened statement.

C’mon, now.

[dhsilv2]

Raptors. The shot of Kawhi in game 7 vs the Sixers, the OT win against the Bucks in game 3 of the ECF and warriors injuries in the Finals changed history. Congrats to them ofc but the question is simple.

08 celtics had to go 7 games in the first AND second round. That was in a much weaker east than the raptors faced. Don't get me wrong, raptors fans going crazy, but hard to call them out when boston struggled against far worse teams.

We're not calling anyone out. There is a question on the thread and we're sharing our opinions.
To me Boston proved in the Finals it was the best team without any asterisks, injuries etc.
Surely, Boston also has the advantage of competing for 3 straight years(08-10) at the highest level which boosts that team's profile.
Toronto doesn't have that luxury yet due to the Covid 19.
A bit unfair certainly but it is what it is for all teams.

Why would you look at future seasons? And again the east was terrible at that time. The raptors beat the bucks, who were the best team in the league last year outside of the super team warriors that we can't compare anyone else too. The raptors won in 6 against those bucks. If boston proved it against LA then so did the raptors against the bucks.

That raptors team is an all time great level team. The put out a legit 5 man defensive super team, put 5 shooters on the floor at almost all times, and pair that with a superstar, an allstar, and a guy on his way to stardom, and a former superstar past his prime but still a very good player. That isn't to say boston wasn't a great team either...but the raptors aren't getting credit for how good they were due to injuries in the finals is silly, making the finals in the east last year was no small task.

[KGtabake]

08 celtics had to go 7 games in the first AND second round. That was in a much weaker east than the raptors faced. Don't get me wrong, raptors fans going crazy, but hard to call them out when boston struggled against far worse teams.

We're not calling anyone out. There is a question on the thread and we're sharing our opinions.
To me Boston proved in the Finals it was the best team without any asterisks, injuries etc.
Surely, Boston also has the advantage of competing for 3 straight years(08-10) at the highest level which boosts that team's profile.
Toronto doesn't have that luxury yet due to the Covid 19.
A bit unfair certainly but it is what it is for all teams.

Why would you look at future seasons? And again the east was terrible at that time. The raptors beat the bucks, who were the best team in the league last year outside of the super team warriors that we can't compare anyone else too. The raptors won in 6 against those bucks. If boston proved it against LA then so did the raptors against the bucks.

That raptors team is an all time great level team. The put out a legit 5 man defensive super team, put 5 shooters on the floor at almost all times, and pair that with a superstar, an allstar, and a guy on his way to stardom, and a former superstar past his prime but still a very good player. That isn't to say boston wasn't a great team either...but the raptors aren't getting credit for how good they were due to injuries in the finals is silly, making the finals in the east last year was no small task.

You look at future seasons to prove even more how solid a team really was.
Nobody says it is(about the bolded part). And nobody can take away from Raps fans the ring.
Bucks last year no matter how great they were for 11 games in the postseason, proved to be inexperienced in the end(nothing wrong with that).
Lakers in 08 were better and they also proved their worth in the next 2 seasons.
Raps and Bucks don't have that yet(again the virus issue). So, for now my opinion remains the above.
We have to come out with an opinion and an answer. It's not a knock or disrespect.

[dhsilv2]

We're not calling anyone out. There is a question on the thread and we're sharing our opinions.
To me Boston proved in the Finals it was the best team without any asterisks, injuries etc.
Surely, Boston also has the advantage of competing for 3 straight years(08-10) at the highest level which boosts that team's profile.
Toronto doesn't have that luxury yet due to the Covid 19.
A bit unfair certainly but it is what it is for all teams.

Why would you look at future seasons? And again the east was terrible at that time. The raptors beat the bucks, who were the best team in the league last year outside of the super team warriors that we can't compare anyone else too. The raptors won in 6 against those bucks. If boston proved it against LA then so did the raptors against the bucks.

That raptors team is an all time great level team. The put out a legit 5 man defensive super team, put 5 shooters on the floor at almost all times, and pair that with a superstar, an allstar, and a guy on his way to stardom, and a former superstar past his prime but still a very good player. That isn't to say boston wasn't a great team either...but the raptors aren't getting credit for how good they were due to injuries in the finals is silly, making the finals in the east last year was no small task.

You look at future seasons to prove even more how solid a team really was.
Nobody says it is(about the bolded part). And nobody can take away from Raps fans the ring.
Bucks last year no matter how great they were for 11 games in the postseason, proved to be inexperienced in the end(nothing wrong with that).
Lakers in 08 were better and they also proved their worth in the next 2 seasons.
Raps and Bucks don't have that yet(again the virus issue). So, for now my opinion remains the above.
We have to come out with an opinion and an answer. It's not a knock or disrespect.

Well, my criticism isn't that you have an opinion (I'd be a jerk if that were the case), but that you used close series as an argument against the raptors when the celtics are the team that most struggled to win the title of the group and against teams that I think we'd all agree weren't very good.

This forward looking stuff doesn't really make a lot of sense. The raptors aren't going to have leonard this year...injuries, etc always change how teams look in the following years. It's rare for teams to stay together, stay healthy, and for year over year results to be consistent enough to use them in this context. Case and point using that logic the Mavs in 2011 would go on to lose 0-4 in the first round the next year with a record only 6 games above 500. They lost in the first round 2-4 to the spurs in 2010. By that logic we'd have to look pretty closely at lowering them too. But I think we'd all also agree Chandler was a HUGE part of that title.

[KingDavid]

Uh they were all good teams that became the champion. Calling any of them worst than another is just silly to me.

Yeah I don't like this thread at all.

[Duffman100]

It's amazing that people will only look at the negatives of the Raptors run and not the positives.

OT against the Bucks in game 6, but ignore we had a late lead in game 1 and thus almost had them in 5.
We almost had the Warriors in 5 too, but no, the narrative is "Almost went to 7".

Buzzer beater and edged out the 76ers, but in another thread will say "That 76ers team probably would have won the title".

It's amazing how willfully blind people will be.

[ballup]

How do we define worst? If we're talking talent, then the 11 Mavs are the clear choice with the 14 Spurs right behind them. They had 57 wins, tied with the '10 Lakers and the Cavs while the Raptors and 18 Warriors had only one more win. They weren't the top of the conference, same with the Raptors and the 18 Warriors. The Celtics had the worst post season record with 10 losses while the Raptors were the closest one with 8.

What if there was a tournament where each champion faced the others in 7 game series? Rules would be that each team would have the same health they did during their run. That means no Caron Butler for the Mavs.

Off the bat we can just say the KD Warriors handily beat most if not all the teams.

The Mavs would have interesting series against the Celtics, Cavs, and Raptors. Although they beat the Heat in their run, the next year's Heat were a different animal and I don't think the Mavs replicate those results.

The Heat sound like they would be the next most dominant team. None of the other teams have an answer for the changed Lebron and Bosh toughened up. Not sure how Bosh would fair against the poundings the Lakers would dish though, but I don't think he would have issues with most other front courts.

Moving onto the other Lebron team. This team probably has the most defensive liabilities in Irving and Love. Even though they beat the 73 win Warriors, I think a good amount of teams could dissect them.

The Spurs were a better offensive version of the Mavs. These guys could beat anyone outside of the KD Warriors.

Now for the most spirited topic, the Raptors. This was a really good defensive team but really needed Kawhi to give them that offensive push. They could beat the Mavs even with Dirk cooking. I think the size of the Lakers and Celtics would really bother them. Embiid by himself was an issue, imagine having to go against a team that started two big and a team that had triplet towers. The Raps could hang defensively against most teams, but they would lose control of most series with an offense that would spudder when the defensive screws tightened in the playoffs. A series against the Cavs may even be in the Raps favor. The series against the 15 Warriors may be a tossup with how the Raptors could guard the splash brothers. Weirdly they might matchup with the Heat decently since they have Kawhi, but I think the Heat take care of business.

The 10 Lakers are the one case where health is a big issue. Bynum was breaking down during their finals. He had to get frequent shots and knee drains. They imploded the next year to the Mavs and they were of course somewhat different by that time with all the circus. This Lakers could match up with the Cavs very well.

The Celtics would have tossups against the 09 Lakers and the Cavs. The Lakers did improve in their first win with the return of Bynum and the promotion of Ariza. It's a tougher series for the Celtics because there isn't a Radmonovic to abuse. The Cavs with maybe the best version of Lebron is tough for the Celtics. It was a close series against a shot deficit Lebron, but LeBron's early Cavs were defensive teams. Love could very well be punked.

The 15 Warriors are low key polarizing. The Warriors in general have been highly regarded, but this particular team has questions. They choked to the Cavs the next season and it stands to question whether they had the mental fortitude to win against these other championship teams. That Cavs lost really seemed like a storm of misfortune and I don't see it happening more often than not. Iggy is really the one piece that gives them strong chances against the teams with star wings.

So here's the tally:
Celtics - beat the 10 Lakers, Mavs, and Raptors. Tossups with the 09 Lakers and the Cavs.
09 Lakers - they beat the 10 Lakers, Mavs, and the Raptors. Tossups with the Celtics and Cavs.
10 Lakers - They beat the Raptors. Tossup with the Cavs and Mavs.
Mavs - Tossups with the 10 Lakers, Cavs, and the Raptors.
Heat - beats Celtics, Lakers, Mavs, Cavs. Tossup with the 15 Warriors.
Spurs - Beats all but KD Warriors.
15 Warriors - Beats the Mavs, Celtics, Lakers, Cavs, and Raptors. Tossup with the Heat.
Cavs - Tossup with the Celtics, Lakers, Mavs, and Raptors.
KD Warriors - moving on
Raptors - Tossup with the Mavs and Cavs.

In the end, the Raptors have the least favorable matchups by a hair to the Mavs.

With all these criteria combined, it really is the Mavs that are the "weakest", which is still silly to say kinda like how people clown the last pick of the all Star draft.

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[Tor_Raps]

In before people say Raptors beat a healthy Warriors team in the regular season (even though in reality the Warriors coast and never tried in the regular season since their 73 win year.)

Just because the Raptors beat the Warriors without KD doesn't mean they "cheaped out" on a championship. Warriors with KD were considered one of the most stacked teams of all time and were still actually favoured to win by a majority without him. Yes, Klay got hurt too but the Raptors dominated most of the series with him playing too.

Raptors beat the Sixers and Bucks who most would consider one of the hardest paths to a NBA finals. Do Lebron's titles mean nothing because he was always able to sleep to a Finals appearance year after year? I'd argue that no team in the East had to go through 2 better teams in recent memory.

Raptors lost their best player (Kawhi), who many consider the best player in the NBA, and still have the 3rd best record right now. How many other teams from this list can do that? Either that means Kawhi is overrated or the Raptors cast is underrated. You can pick which one that is...

You make good points, except for the italicized/emboldened statement.

C’mon, now.

You don't think Philly and the Bucks were stacked last year? Everyone was talking about how the East never had 4 championship calibre teams in the same year before (Raps/Bucks/Sixers/Celtics). The following are championship calibre rosters whether you want to argue they lived up to expectations or not.

Simmons/ Redick/ Butler/ Harris/ Embiid
Bledsoe/ Brodgan/ Middleton/ Giannis/ Lopez
Kyrie/ Brown/ Tatum/ Hayward/ Horford

[Duffman100]

Just because the Raptors beat the Warriors without KD doesn't mean they "cheaped out" on a championship. Warriors with KD were considered one of the most stacked teams of all time and were still actually favoured to win by a majority without him. Yes, Klay got hurt too but the Raptors dominated most of the series with him playing too.

Raptors beat the Sixers and Bucks who most would consider one of the hardest paths to a NBA finals. Do Lebron's titles mean nothing because he was always able to sleep to a Finals appearance year after year? I'd argue that no team in the East had to go through 2 better teams in recent memory.

Raptors lost their best player (Kawhi), who many consider the best player in the NBA, and still have the 3rd best record right now. How many other teams from this list can do that? Either that means Kawhi is overrated or the Raptors cast is underrated. You can pick which one that is...

You make good points, except for the italicized/emboldened statement.

C’mon, now.

You don't think that years Philly team and the Bucks were stacked teams? These are championship calibre teams most years. Especially in the East where there has typically been 1 or maybe 2 championship calibre teams, at best, each season.

Simmons/Redick/Butler/Harris/Embiid
Bledsoe/Brodgan/Middleton/Giannis/Lopez

I guarantee you that if they made it the finals and won, there wouldn't be a giant question about the legitimacy of their title.

[Chandan]

i voted raptors as a raptors fan because i want to fan the flame. it's hilarious how salty some of these comments were.

[Ron Swanson]

I don't know if the 2007 Spurs on paper were overrated, but their actual playoff run definitely is. That was the year the Suns were going to win the title until Robert Horry gooned his way into getting Amare and Boris Diaw suspended on an absolutely absurd technicality that the NBA somehow managed to uphold. From the 2nd round in the West onward, they basically had one of the easiest waltzes to a title in the modern era. A 51-win Jazz team with 22-year old Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer as their best players, then swept a mediocre Cavs team in the Finals.

The Mavs losing against an 8th seed Warriors team really exposed how much of a down year 06-07 was for the league. You basically had two legit championship teams after that (PHX, SAS) and the Spurs were basically the last one standing, with a little help from a dumb, obscure rule that the league later clarified/adjusted.

[Jabroni Lames]

By 538s Elo rankings, the 2010 Lakers are the worst, which I agree with. Then the 2012 Heat, 2008 Celtics, and the 2007 Spurs are also on the lower end, followed by the Raptors. If you go back a bit further, the 2006 Heat were pretty rough as far as Champions go as well.

All of the champions from 2013-2018 are pretty solid, with the 2017 Warriors looking like the greatest team of all time (which they probably were).

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/complete-history-of-the-nba/#lakers

I tend to find this system pretty reliable - it rates the 86 Celtics really well along with the Jordan Bulls. Sadly the Hakeem Rockets titles don't pan out but that's not surprising either.

Stop making sense with logical arguments backed up by solid data. This place runs on un-substantiated hot takes. You're spoiling the fun.

[binjumper]

Sounds like a thread by a team with no chips. Imma just sip on my tea and enjoy my championship.

[cupcakesnake]

Uh they were all good teams that became the champion. Calling any of them worst than another is just silly to me.

Yeah I don't like this thread at all.

Adding to this. What is enjoyable about this thread. Each championship franchise since 2007 having other fans take a crap on one of their greatest accomplishments.

Every champion benefits from some level of injury luck. Every championship team has to win a ton of their 82 regular season games and then win 4 straight best of 7 series. Your team did something incredible if they won a title. congrats to all of you.