2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 2)

[3toheadmelo]

Bumping this again. If we get 1 of these 3, I think we'll be in good shape. They have the most star potential imo.

Just hope we get a chance to draft one of Wiseman/Edwards/Lamelo

the odds aren't in favor going that high. Better have a backup plan.

Of course we need a backup plan. But I think after those 3 the draft gets really tricky. You can make a case for anyone after those 3. I rather we be able to draft one of Wiseman/Edwards/Lamelo. Trade up if necessary. They have the highest floors and highest ceilings. Can't go wrong with them.

[mpharris36]

are you guys planning on going into the season with Ball, RJ, Randle, and Mitch starting?

I just don't see that being successful. Literally no one can shoot with that team. It wouldn't be a good look. Playmaking only works if you have proper spacing. If teams don't respect your shooting they won't allow you to get into the paint.

Sounds good to me. We need to tank again

regardless of what we do this offseason we will probably be in the lottery regardless because there aren't enough impact FA's and the draft with all these young guys its takes these guys longer to develop then in the past for the most part.

But you still want to draft players that make sense long term with already core players. If you don't think RJ/Mitch are core players then we are like 3-4 years out of being competitive. So we better hope those are two main pieces for this new regimes sake.

[mpharris36]

Bumping this again. If we get 1 of these 3, I think we'll be in good shape. They have the most star potential imo.

the odds aren't in favor going that high. Better have a backup plan.

Of course we need a backup plan. But I think after those 3 the draft gets really tricky. You can make a case for anyone after those 3. I rather we be able to draft one of Wiseman/Edwards/Lamelo. Trade up if necessary. They have the highest floors and highest ceilings. Can't go wrong with them.

I feel a bit different about the draft. I can honestly see the best player coming from the middle of the lottery in this draft. THere is talent but a little more uncertainty about some of these kids future. A lot relies on there development in the league. Because right now there isn't much separating pick one from say pick 6-7 IMO.

I can make a case for any of these dudes.

For example Deni and Hayes could easily be the best player in the draft and you didn't mention either.

[Deeeez Knicks]

are you guys planning on going into the season with Ball, RJ, Randle, and Mitch starting?

I just don't see that being successful. Literally no one can shoot with that team. It wouldn't be a good look. Playmaking only works if you have proper spacing. If teams don't respect your shooting they won't allow you to get into the paint.

No matter who we draft Randle has to go, we need to add more shooters, and upgrade the roster. I would roll with a core of Ball/RJ/Mitch. Add some shooters and take it from there. Probably not gonna be good, but hope they can develop into something over time.

Even if we draft someone like Hayes, Edwards, Cole...it's a similiar situation. They aren't guaranteed great shooters and have some work to do. We most likely wont be good with them either. Granted, they project as better shooters then LaMelo, but I would not let that be the deciding factor...that can burn teams like if you pass on Ja, SGA, Fox, Mitchell if they don't project to be great shooters. Just have to take who you think is the best player. It's possible that isn't Ball either as there is some risk.

I think long term if the guy we draft and RJ are going to be our center pieces we need one with a translatable shot. The NBA is so much about shooting it would really concern me if we have our two best young players along with Mitch with suspect to zero shooting.

Hayes projects as a much better fit next to RJ longterm IMO.

Also we need to be realistic about where we pick as well. We got nearly a 60% at picking 6,7, and 8.

So we are probably going to be in Hayes, Haliburton, Okoro range.

More so then LaMelo, Edwards, Deni range.

I would be happy if we end up with Hayes. Most likely we end up in that range and like him a lot.

I just would not put too much stock in fit. It's more important to find talent in the lottery over fit. If Ball pans out he is the type of player who will fit next to just about anyone.

[3toheadmelo]

the odds aren't in favor going that high. Better have a backup plan.

Of course we need a backup plan. But I think after those 3 the draft gets really tricky. You can make a case for anyone after those 3. I rather we be able to draft one of Wiseman/Edwards/Lamelo. Trade up if necessary. They have the highest floors and highest ceilings. Can't go wrong with them.

I feel a bit different about the draft. I can honestly see the best player coming from the middle of the lottery in this draft. THere is talent but a little more uncertainty about some of these kids future. A lot relies on there development in the league. Because right now there isn't much separating pick one from say pick 6-7 IMO.

I can make a case for any of these dudes.

For example Deni and Hayes could easily be the best player in the draft and you didn't mention either.

Yeah probably. This draft is very tricky. But imo after Wiseman/Edwards/Lamelo, there is a big gap in terms of talent. I am just hoping we get one of those 3. If I had to guess, they are the safest players to draft due to their high floor and they have a lot of untapped potential. The rest of the players seem like solid role players with small star potential in my eyes. I could be wrong though.

One thing we can agree on is that we need to hit on this pick, where ever we land in the draft

[mpharris36]

Of course we need a backup plan. But I think after those 3 the draft gets really tricky. You can make a case for anyone after those 3. I rather we be able to draft one of Wiseman/Edwards/Lamelo. Trade up if necessary. They have the highest floors and highest ceilings. Can't go wrong with them.

I feel a bit different about the draft. I can honestly see the best player coming from the middle of the lottery in this draft. THere is talent but a little more uncertainty about some of these kids future. A lot relies on there development in the league. Because right now there isn't much separating pick one from say pick 6-7 IMO.

I can make a case for any of these dudes.

For example Deni and Hayes could easily be the best player in the draft and you didn't mention either.

Yeah probably. This draft is very tricky. But imo after Wiseman/Edwards/Lamelo, there is a big gap in terms of talent. I am just hoping we get one of those 3. If I had to guess, they are the safest players to draft due to their high floor and they have a lot of untapped potential. The rest of the players seem like solid role players with small star potential in my eyes. I could be wrong though.

One thing we can agree on is that we need to hit on this pick, where ever we land in the draft

Which is funny because I think the 3 safest picks are Deni/Hayes/Haliburton. Whether I think they can be stars is another question.

I think the 3 guys you are mentioning are more boom or bust guys.

[mpharris36]

I also think Obi is a super safe pick. You will get production from him in terms of scoring and rebounding. But he's kinda a sieve defensively.

I think Okongwu is going to be a safe pick as well. He's going to be a rebounding and defensive impact player right away. Can he do more then be a lob catcher on offense?

[mpharris36]

No matter who we draft Randle has to go, we need to add more shooters, and upgrade the roster. I would roll with a core of Ball/RJ/Mitch. Add some shooters and take it from there. Probably not gonna be good, but hope they can develop into something over time.

Even if we draft someone like Hayes, Edwards, Cole...it's a similiar situation. They aren't guaranteed great shooters and have some work to do. We most likely wont be good with them either. Granted, they project as better shooters then LaMelo, but I would not let that be the deciding factor...that can burn teams like if you pass on Ja, SGA, Fox, Mitchell if they don't project to be great shooters. Just have to take who you think is the best player. It's possible that isn't Ball either as there is some risk.

I think long term if the guy we draft and RJ are going to be our center pieces we need one with a translatable shot. The NBA is so much about shooting it would really concern me if we have our two best young players along with Mitch with suspect to zero shooting.

Hayes projects as a much better fit next to RJ longterm IMO.

Also we need to be realistic about where we pick as well. We got nearly a 60% at picking 6,7, and 8.

So we are probably going to be in Hayes, Haliburton, Okoro range.

More so then LaMelo, Edwards, Deni range.

I would be happy if we end up with Hayes. Most likely we end up in that range and like him a lot.

I just would not put too much stock in fit. It's more important to find talent in the lottery over fit. If Ball pans out he is the type of player who will fit next to just about anyone.

I think fit is more important then people make it out to be. I'm not suggesting just pick a shooter like Nesmith in the top 5 because we are talking about a high end lottery pick here.

But im saying if all these guys are relatively equal (and from most accounts they are) it just depends on who you like more. It would behoove the knicks to select guys that have talent that also compliment there other pieces as well.

We have been down the road of just trying to add talent and hope it eventually fits. That rarely works. Unless you get can't miss talent. But I think we all agree there probably isn't a "can't miss" player in this draft.

[3toheadmelo]

I feel a bit different about the draft. I can honestly see the best player coming from the middle of the lottery in this draft. THere is talent but a little more uncertainty about some of these kids future. A lot relies on there development in the league. Because right now there isn't much separating pick one from say pick 6-7 IMO.

I can make a case for any of these dudes.

For example Deni and Hayes could easily be the best player in the draft and you didn't mention either.

Yeah probably. This draft is very tricky. But imo after Wiseman/Edwards/Lamelo, there is a big gap in terms of talent. I am just hoping we get one of those 3. If I had to guess, they are the safest players to draft due to their high floor and they have a lot of untapped potential. The rest of the players seem like solid role players with small star potential in my eyes. I could be wrong though.

One thing we can agree on is that we need to hit on this pick, where ever we land in the draft

Which is funny because I think the 3 safest picks are Deni/Hayes/Haliburton. Whether I think they can be stars is another question.

I think the 3 guys you are mentioning are more boom or bust guys.

I think Lamelo's court vision is what makes him so safe. And he has a great touch around the rim. He will probably be inefficient in his early years but he will still have an impact imo.

Edwards in my eyes is the most talented/polished scorer in the draft. He is gonna be a ROY candidate right out the gate.

I really see Wiseman averaging 16/10 in his rookie year. Similar to Ayton. Wiseman is a great rim runner/rim protector and can score in multiple ways. Not as polished as Ayton as a scorer but he will get a lot of easy buckets due to his high motor. On top of that he is a great rebounder.

[mpharris36]

Yeah probably. This draft is very tricky. But imo after Wiseman/Edwards/Lamelo, there is a big gap in terms of talent. I am just hoping we get one of those 3. If I had to guess, they are the safest players to draft due to their high floor and they have a lot of untapped potential. The rest of the players seem like solid role players with small star potential in my eyes. I could be wrong though.

One thing we can agree on is that we need to hit on this pick, where ever we land in the draft

Which is funny because I think the 3 safest picks are Deni/Hayes/Haliburton. Whether I think they can be stars is another question.

I think the 3 guys you are mentioning are more boom or bust guys.

I think Lamelo's court vision is what makes him so safe. And he has a great touch around the rim. He will probably be inefficient in his early years but he will still have an impact imo.

Edwards in my eyes is the most talented/polished scorer in the draft. He is gonna be a ROY candidate right out the gate.

I really see Wiseman averaging 16/10 in his rookie year. Similar to Ayton. Wiseman is a great rim runner/rim protector and can score in multiple ways. Not as polished as Ayton as a scorer but he will get a lot of easy buckets due to his high motor. On top of that he is a great rebounder.

You don't have to sell me on Edwards...if we are picking #1 I probably take him on pure talent alone. Can he be a do it all type guard in the mold of a Mitchell or Oladipo? Sure but he does have really questionable shot selection and you kinda wanted to see him be more consistent with his shooting.

The other two im not sold on either.

LaMelo has fantastic vision. He can see it all. Very much J Kidd especially in the open court. But unlike Kidd (LaMelo has a lot of questionable shots) especially from deep when he really sucks at shooting.

Also the difference if LaMelo struggles to shoot someone like Kidd could also use his size to be a dominant defensive player and LaMelo gives about 0% on that end so the vision is great he got some huge question marks for me. Then throw in the father stuff (in NY do we really want to deal with that especially with a turnaround not likely). If we are losing and dude dad is popping off at the mouth it could get really ugly.

Wiseman I just haven't seen enough of at a high level to really put my finger on how good he can be. Add in the fact I doubt we target a center if we picking in the top 5. I just see the odds of picking Wiseman at less than 1% TBH.

[RHODEY]

I agree with most everything this kid says.

He's right on with Haliburton. Trust me guys, Haliburton is NOT the type of player the Knicks need. His college performance is getting over inflated and he will NOT be able to get anywhere near what he's doing in college especially NOT on a team that has no system and mish-mosh of talent. Fans will use his college play, build him up to be something he's not and then he'll get absolutely crucified when, not surprisingly, he can't replicate that type of production in the NBA. He'll be the next Ntilikina in terms of creating a divide among the fanbase (one group that will hold fast he needs to be given a shot, the other, that he's crap...all the while he's producing very little relative to his draft position while he's on the floor).

LaMelo Ball IS the guy that the Knicks need the most out of the point guards. He is built for the NBA and his skill will absolutely make it easier for the main go forward guys (Barrett, Robinson, Knox, etc.) to get easier shots on offense. He'll even be able to make Randle much more effective and efficient. Yes absolutely more so than the way popular "we need a shooter" mantra. Barrett, Robinson and Knox need someone that can create shot opportunities for them cause they can't themselves. Just shooter isn't going to create easy shots for them since they will still have to try to create shots (the shooter only acts to force defenders from focusing on them, but the reality is that none of them are innate shot creators themselves so the problem is even before the shooter comes into play).

Kilian Hayes IS the other PG that should be the choice if avaialble and Ball is not available, regardless of if anyone lists Hayes in a mock. Why? Cause Hayes is like Ball. His best skills are the skills that create easy shot opportunities for everyone else. In a lot of ways he's like a scaled down version of Ball but without the potential drama.

Deni Avdija has a lot of talent but yes, it would not be advisable to take him if Ball or Hayes is available. But yes, if all the PG's are gone, then taking basically BPA and waiting for 2021 draft for a PG would make sense. The Knicks will suck again next season. It's what it is. You don't want to reach for a position.

And yes, they have no need for Jahmi'us Ramsey. They already have Barrett (who they still seem insistent to play at SG), Trier, Dotson AND (most likely) Reggie Bullock (for at least one more season).

Also, yeah, the same way they moved up to get Iggy cause they really liked him, if you really like someone say later on in the 1st and you think he can be gone a few picks before the Clippers, try to move up. Jalen Smith, for example, a guy that is slipping under the radar, honestly would be a great fit with the Knicks. Smith has shown vast improvements in his ability to shoot the ball from freshman to sophomore seasons (not just the 3 but his FT%) which tells me he can get even better (and has the makeup to improve). He's tall, quick, aggressive, athletic, rebounds and blocks shots real well. Moves well without the ball. If the plan is to eventually move on from Randle, Smith would be a great fit. You can even slide him over to C right away to play with Randle if the game calls forces the Knicks to try and spread the floor. So a trade up for a guy like Jalen Smith in the 20-25 range should be considered if they like Smith.

You can find "shooters" in free agency (see Reggie Bullock). You cannot find the type of guys that can create easy shot opportunities for his teammates like a Ball or Hayes can near as easy. You focus on shot creators. It's also easier to learn to shoot than to learn to create shots. So no, absolutely not, I would not hold Ball's lack of a 3 against him. Heck, you just need to look at his brother to see how not just a similar type PG an learn to shoot, but one that shares the same type of genes, mentality and style. Ball should absolutely be the 1st PG on the Knicks draft list. A 6'7" (potentially 6'8" when all's said and done) shotcreator that has the ball on a string and the game built for the bright lights is absolutely exactly what this team (of all teams) need especially if it's very likely that his shooting will improve (again see brother Lonzo).

And yep, like I said before, Cole Anthony has aspects of his game (toughness, leadership, fight, etc.) that are great. It's just the question about is he really more of a SG in a PG's body from my standpoint (and exceed what you expect a PG to be able to do for your team to make you better, instead of what a SG be able to do to do the same). If he was 2-3" taller he'd be a SG and probably then 1st overall pick cause his pure scoring skills may be better than Antman's. But his size forces him to be a PG which changes the whole value/usefulness perspective. Anthony is not a good fit with Barrett in the backcourt. Barret's game is not a spot up shooter game. That's what Cole Anthony would work well with, paired with a strong shooting SG on a team where he can just focus on attacking and scoring. Similar to what Derrick Rose had in his early days in Chicago and Westbrook had in OKC after KD left (and Cole Anthony is not near as talented as either MVP Rose or Westbrook). That's the type of team Cole Anthony needs. That is neither the Knicks now, nor what appears to be their team building vision going forward.

And if Ball and Hayes are gone when we pick. Who you got assuming Cole, Deny, Haliburton, Obi are still on the table? I'm inclined to go for OBI just for the excitement factor and the ability to produce from day one. Sure his defense has been called trash but I think I'd still take that over the alternatives...

We could then get a sleeper guard at 26 (Kira Lewis?) and call it a day.

If Lamelo and Hayes are gone, then I will pay to get this kid on the team and draft best player available.

As much as I like Van Fleet, I dont think I would pay the max for him. And I'm sure that's what it would take to have a chance of prying him from the Raps.

[3toheadmelo]

Which is funny because I think the 3 safest picks are Deni/Hayes/Haliburton. Whether I think they can be stars is another question.

I think the 3 guys you are mentioning are more boom or bust guys.

I think Lamelo's court vision is what makes him so safe. And he has a great touch around the rim. He will probably be inefficient in his early years but he will still have an impact imo.

Edwards in my eyes is the most talented/polished scorer in the draft. He is gonna be a ROY candidate right out the gate.

I really see Wiseman averaging 16/10 in his rookie year. Similar to Ayton. Wiseman is a great rim runner/rim protector and can score in multiple ways. Not as polished as Ayton as a scorer but he will get a lot of easy buckets due to his high motor. On top of that he is a great rebounder.

You don't have to sell me on Edwards...if we are picking #1 I probably take him on pure talent alone. Can he be a do it all type guard in the mold of a Mitchell or Oladipo? Sure but he does have really questionable shot selection and you kinda wanted to see him be more consistent with his shooting.

The other two im not sold on either.

LaMelo has fantastic vision. He can see it all. Very much J Kidd especially in the open court. But unlike Kidd (LaMelo has a lot of questionable shots) especially from deep when he really sucks at shooting.

Also the difference if LaMelo struggles to shoot someone like Kidd could also use his size to be a dominant defensive player and LaMelo gives about 0% on that end so the vision is great he got some huge question marks for me. Then throw in the father stuff (in NY do we really want to deal with that especially with a turnaround not likely). If we are losing and dude dad is popping off at the mouth it could get really ugly.

Wiseman I just haven't seen enough of at a high level to really put my finger on how good he can be. Add in the fact I doubt we target a center if we picking in the top 5. I just see the odds of picking Wiseman at less than 1% TBH.

Edwards just has questionable shot selection and defense. But that can be fixed with coaching. I would take him #2 after Wiseman but I can see why you would want him #1 too.

Now for Lamelo, Ben Simmons was also a poor defender despite his great size in college and is now one of the best. His brother Lonzo too. According to DX.. Lamelo started to get better defensively later in the season so there's hope for him on that end.
I am not worried about Lavar. He is the last of my concerns. Lonzo has turned it around in New Orleans despite his father talking his usual BS. So I can care less lol

Maybe the Knicks pass on Wiseman cause of Mitch but I know I wouldn't lol. I been watching Wiseman since HS, I think he is the real deal. Sucks his season was cut short. Wiseman is also close to RJ so that's something to consider. RJ might lobby the Knicks to pick him. We'll see I guess

[mpharris36]

I think Lamelo's court vision is what makes him so safe. And he has a great touch around the rim. He will probably be inefficient in his early years but he will still have an impact imo.

Edwards in my eyes is the most talented/polished scorer in the draft. He is gonna be a ROY candidate right out the gate.

I really see Wiseman averaging 16/10 in his rookie year. Similar to Ayton. Wiseman is a great rim runner/rim protector and can score in multiple ways. Not as polished as Ayton as a scorer but he will get a lot of easy buckets due to his high motor. On top of that he is a great rebounder.

You don't have to sell me on Edwards...if we are picking #1 I probably take him on pure talent alone. Can he be a do it all type guard in the mold of a Mitchell or Oladipo? Sure but he does have really questionable shot selection and you kinda wanted to see him be more consistent with his shooting.

The other two im not sold on either.

LaMelo has fantastic vision. He can see it all. Very much J Kidd especially in the open court. But unlike Kidd (LaMelo has a lot of questionable shots) especially from deep when he really sucks at shooting.

Also the difference if LaMelo struggles to shoot someone like Kidd could also use his size to be a dominant defensive player and LaMelo gives about 0% on that end so the vision is great he got some huge question marks for me. Then throw in the father stuff (in NY do we really want to deal with that especially with a turnaround not likely). If we are losing and dude dad is popping off at the mouth it could get really ugly.

Wiseman I just haven't seen enough of at a high level to really put my finger on how good he can be. Add in the fact I doubt we target a center if we picking in the top 5. I just see the odds of picking Wiseman at less than 1% TBH.

Edwards just has questionable shot selection and defense. But that can be fixed with coaching. I would take him #2 after Wiseman but I can see why you would want him #1 too.

Now for Lamelo, Ben Simmons was also a poor defender despite his great size in college and is now one of the best. His brother Lonzo too. According to DX.. Lamelo started to get better defensively later in the season so there's hope for him on that end.
I am not worried about Lavar. He is the last of my concerns. Lonzo has turned it around in New Orleans despite his father talking his usual BS. So I can care less lol

Maybe the Knicks pass on Wiseman cause of Mitch but I know I wouldn't lol. I been watching Wiseman since HS, I think he is the real deal. Sucks his season was cut short. Wiseman is also close to RJ so that's something to consider. RJ might lobby the Knicks to pick him. We'll see I guess

You and I both know New Orleans aint a basketball town especially not a media market like NY. Lavar means nothing there. Also Zion runs the show there now so Lonzo is an after thought. LaMelo would get so much of the media attention. It is absolutely something that needs to be weighed if the juice is worth the squeeze there.

On Wiseman the kid has talent I just think the knicks are heavily invested in Mitch (and rightfully so). If Wiseman was head and shoulders above the rest I could see it but like I said this draft is so close together in terms of talent that I don't see a position where we take him in the top 5 and thats where he is going.

[3toheadmelo]

You don't have to sell me on Edwards...if we are picking #1 I probably take him on pure talent alone. Can he be a do it all type guard in the mold of a Mitchell or Oladipo? Sure but he does have really questionable shot selection and you kinda wanted to see him be more consistent with his shooting.

The other two im not sold on either.

LaMelo has fantastic vision. He can see it all. Very much J Kidd especially in the open court. But unlike Kidd (LaMelo has a lot of questionable shots) especially from deep when he really sucks at shooting.

Also the difference if LaMelo struggles to shoot someone like Kidd could also use his size to be a dominant defensive player and LaMelo gives about 0% on that end so the vision is great he got some huge question marks for me. Then throw in the father stuff (in NY do we really want to deal with that especially with a turnaround not likely). If we are losing and dude dad is popping off at the mouth it could get really ugly.

Wiseman I just haven't seen enough of at a high level to really put my finger on how good he can be. Add in the fact I doubt we target a center if we picking in the top 5. I just see the odds of picking Wiseman at less than 1% TBH.

Edwards just has questionable shot selection and defense. But that can be fixed with coaching. I would take him #2 after Wiseman but I can see why you would want him #1 too.

Now for Lamelo, Ben Simmons was also a poor defender despite his great size in college and is now one of the best. His brother Lonzo too. According to DX.. Lamelo started to get better defensively later in the season so there's hope for him on that end.
I am not worried about Lavar. He is the last of my concerns. Lonzo has turned it around in New Orleans despite his father talking his usual BS. So I can care less lol

Maybe the Knicks pass on Wiseman cause of Mitch but I know I wouldn't lol. I been watching Wiseman since HS, I think he is the real deal. Sucks his season was cut short. Wiseman is also close to RJ so that's something to consider. RJ might lobby the Knicks to pick him. We'll see I guess

You and I both know New Orleans aint a basketball town especially not a media market like NY. Lavar means nothing there. Also Zion runs the show there now so Lonzo is an after thought. LaMelo would get so much of the media attention. It is absolutely something that needs to be weighed if the juice is worth the squeeze there.

On Wiseman the kid has talent I just think the knicks are heavily invested in Mitch (and rightfully so). If Wiseman was head and shoulders above the rest I could see it but like I said this draft is so close together in terms of talent that I don't see a position where we take him in the top 5 and thats where he is going.

Lavar still talking his schit on First take though. New Orleans not stopping him from getting millions of views. Lol. Lamelo has been in the spotlight for years now. And getting better every year. So I am not worried about his dad being a distraction.

I think Wiseman would be head and shoulders above everyone if he played the whole season. He was looking like the undisputed #1 pick until he got suspended and his stock started to drop. I think his ceiling is much higher than Mitch. It would be foolish for the Knicks to pass him up if they miss out on Lamelo and Edwards. Just take him and worry about the fit later. Who knows, maybe Wiseman and Mitch can be on some twin tower sh*t

Watch this scouting vid on him.. show's how special of a talent he is

Watch on YouTube

[Tron Carter]

will never be wiseman. not even worth entertaining.

[Fat]

i think itll go like this if the knicks are picking outside of the top 3

Edwards x
Wiseman x
lamelo x

knicks High on cole anthony
knicks High on Hailburton
knicks very intrigued by hayes



final decision cole anthony

in terms of readiness to perform cole is ahead of the pack

34% from 3 is decent enough to keep the defense honest.
Shot creating and scoring off the dribble ability
competitive mindset
decision making needs work he can make the simple pass but not the elite ones ala Lamelo. not sure how much weight that will hold when it comes to making the pick if RJ will be doing a fair amount of the on ball duties.

Greg anthony being his pops will also play its role no doubt about it

[robillionaire]

are you guys planning on going into the season with Ball, RJ, Randle, and Mitch starting?

I just don't see that being successful. Literally no one can shoot with that team. It wouldn't be a good look. Playmaking only works if you have proper spacing. If teams don't respect your shooting they won't allow you to get into the paint.

Sounds good to me. We need to tank again

regardless of what we do this offseason we will probably be in the lottery regardless because there aren't enough impact FA's and the draft with all these young guys its takes these guys longer to develop then in the past for the most part.

But you still want to draft players that make sense long term with already core players. If you don't think RJ/Mitch are core players then we are like 3-4 years out of being competitive. So we better hope those are two main pieces for this new regimes sake.

To give a real answer to what you were saying, I think Ball will shoot better than people think, well enough to where they aren’t going to just leave him open, I would try to draft another shooter at SG or a stretch 4 with the other two picks and or sign a top 3pt guy like joe Harris to shore up the offense . Also I’d possibly consider benching Randle. They won’t though

[Deeeez Knicks]

I think long term if the guy we draft and RJ are going to be our center pieces we need one with a translatable shot. The NBA is so much about shooting it would really concern me if we have our two best young players along with Mitch with suspect to zero shooting.

Hayes projects as a much better fit next to RJ longterm IMO.

Also we need to be realistic about where we pick as well. We got nearly a 60% at picking 6,7, and 8.

So we are probably going to be in Hayes, Haliburton, Okoro range.

More so then LaMelo, Edwards, Deni range.

I would be happy if we end up with Hayes. Most likely we end up in that range and like him a lot.

I just would not put too much stock in fit. It's more important to find talent in the lottery over fit. If Ball pans out he is the type of player who will fit next to just about anyone.

I think fit is more important then people make it out to be. I'm not suggesting just pick a shooter like Nesmith in the top 5 because we are talking about a high end lottery pick here.

But im saying if all these guys are relatively equal (and from most accounts they are) it just depends on who you like more. It would behoove the knicks to select guys that have talent that also compliment there other pieces as well.

We have been down the road of just trying to add talent and hope it eventually fits. That rarely works. Unless you get can't miss talent. But I think we all agree there probably isn't a "can't miss" player in this draft.

Fit is important in free agency/trade when you are filling out the team, but not nearly as important in the draft. You just dont have that many chances in the draft and its more for the long term so there really isnt a lot of room to pass on better players, if thats how its evaluated. I dont think we ever drafted bpa and regretted it. If anything we drafted more for fit with Frank. I think they did think Knox was talented, but probably didn't even look at SGA since we had a bunch of pgs on the roster already and wanted a wing...but who knows?. That was a miss either way.

I think where we differ is just the view on Ball. I see him in a higher tier, with a ton of potential. There is some risk, but am willing to roll the dice on upside. If he pans out he could def fit in our future. There is a lot of question marks so can see why some might not be high on him. I am a sucker for the vision/feel/handle/size and think he can figure it out from there.

We need so many pieces that I would try for as many building blocks as possible in the draft and figure out fit later

[robillionaire]

Time for a new thread

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1953699

[HarthorneWingo]

Time for a new thread

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1953699

I was just about to post a scouting video to discuss. I guess I'll have to wait.