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2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#61 » by malik959 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:58 am

Oscirus wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Oscirus wrote:Everybody wants lamelo until this hothead starts freezing others out. NTY
? His biggest skill is getting others easy shots. Why would he freeze others out? Nothing about anything hes done on the court ever indicates that he freezes others out. Its one thing to be worried about the Ball factor and a possible media circus but let's not start blowing things out of proportion. If he freezes others out and hes the best playmaker in the draft then what does it say about the other PGs in this draft?

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He averaged 19 points on less than 30 percent shooting in a lesser league than the ncaa. He has bust written all over him.


This!!
Of all the players in the lotto he worries me most because outside of passing he sucks.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#62 » by Worst_to_First » Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:01 am

moocow007 wrote:So here's the deal...
Spoiler:
NO ONE on this team right now should be untouchable. NO ONE on this team right now has screamed to me that they are MUST to build around. It is what it is...

So the notion that you have to start trying to fit whomever you draft into the guys on this team is a reach. No, you don't say can player 'x' fit with "a, b and c". You look at player 'x' and you ask yourself, can this guy be a legit star? A game changer? On and by the way, can he theoretically also fit with the guys I do have.

The reason we are talking PG's is because it just so happens that there's a heavy concentration of them slotted to go in the top part of this draft. It shouldn't be because that's what this team needs. This team is probably the 2nd least talented team in the NBA right now. It's a stinker of a team. It has no Zion like player. It doesn't even have a Ja like player. Nothing. So stop trying to fit the guy that they'll be drafting into this current mix so much so that it clouds judgement. If I was the Pelican's, then yeah, I'm probably ready to look at fit more than anything else. But we aren't at that point yet.

Who I like if I were in charge?

I'd be looking for game changer players, guys that can become legit stars in the NBA. So I'd be looking at guys who's game and mentality can dominate and do well in the NBA. REGARDLESS of who I got on this team.

What I'd be interested in most is not to figure out if LaMelo Ball can ever learn to shoot, it's to figure out what his mentality really is (not the assumed drama mentality being a Ball) or anything like that.

Honestly, my top priority would be to try to get a real feel for James Wiseman and how much of a competitor he really is and what really is his capacity to step up and elevate his game when the competition gets harder. That would be my no.1 task? Why? Cause of all the players in this draft, Wiseman is the guy that absolutely can dominate if everything clicks on. More than anyone else. And no, if Wiseman can give me the warm and fuzzy feeling it absolutely does not matter if we already have Mitch Robinson or how good Mitch is or can be. Why? Cause I can flip Robinson for something else I can maximize value on.

Then it's onto LaMelo Ball and try to figure out if his mentality and makeup, and game, will translate better than his brother Lonzo's and what will I be getting once the lights AND pressure AND criticism turn on here. Would my assumption that he's made more for NY than any other player in this draft be correct?

So Ball and Wiseman, Wiseman and Ball, would be my top 2. Then I go from there.

Finding a shooter? Look. I'm not discounting shooting. Nor am I discounting how shooting could open up the floor for some of the other guys on the team. And yep, the NBA now puts a premium on shooting. But unless there's a Steph Curry in this draft (there isn't) the Knicks have a bigger need than a shooter at the top of their no.1 need list. So, again, no, shooting isn't the most important thing when figuring out who to draft. You can find shooting. You can't find a premium talent, an alpha lead, a game changer remotely as easily. If it were then we wouldn't be in the situation we've been in for over 2 decades running.

So, yeah, Wiseman and Ball would be at the top of my list. Then it's everyone else in some form.

So what happens if the Knicks don't end up with a top 3 or so pick (what you need to get Wiseman or Ball)? Killian Hayes next.

What if Hayes, Wiseman and Ball are gone? BPA Anthony Edwards would be where I'd lean. What about Barrett? What about him? IF Edwards is who I believe he can be and he lives up to the billing then I can: a) move Barrett to SF, b) move Barrett.

What if Edwards, Hayes, Wiseman and Ball are gone? I'd start moving to Deni Avdija and seeing how I feel about his game (and he's probably one of the most talented young players in this draft with a mentality that you find more here in the stats than anything else)? Where would he play? SF? What does it mean for Knox? It means if Knox can't step his game up then he's not going to be playing and/or be around for long.

Next? I have said this before, I think Onyeka Okongwu can be a special player in the NBA. He has the physical tools, the feel, the defensive chops and a pretty unique evolving offensive game. I do think he can become a Pascall Siakam level player (no obviously they don't play the same position or have the same exact skills).

Cole Anthony then would come in after that as, again, while I don't think he'll win you games with his PG skills, he can make an impact on the offensive end and as a high intensity attack dog type. A tough competitor that can at least help set a tone that I want my team to have.

That's 7 right? Those would be the guys I focus on. That would be my 7. That's the high talent and/or IMO the legit high upside guys. Obviously depending on what happens till draft time (more games and standing change, lottery results, etc.) If I end up with one of them I'd be anywhere from ecstatic to at least solidly ok with.

The rest of the guys? There are a lot of guys that are putting up stats and looking great in college that I honestly don't think will be able to translate to the NBA and/or that doesn't have much in the way of ceiling (Haliburton headlines this group). Doesn't mean they can't contribute, just means that it's not going to be someone that likely will push the needle for me enough. And I'm absolutely looking for a guy that can move the needle for me be it immediately (unlikely) or 2 or 3 years from now (much more realistic). I'm not shopping for role players or secondary guys where I am. Role players and secondary guys? That's what free agency is for since I'd be pretty clear that no needle movers will be signing with my schlep of a team.

There are also guys that I think will flub out completely (RJ Hampton to me is going to be the another Dante Exum). Yep it's most of the rest of the guys in the Tankathon mock lottery. If the Knicks end up at a spot where the the guys I mentioned already are all gone...then I move on and see if I which of the rest of these guys can give me a solid role player down the road and not flub out on me by not being able to mentally (or game wise) adjust to not being "da main man" in the NBA.


Moo nailed it perfectly.

/thread.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#63 » by robillionaire » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:18 pm

Oscirus wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Oscirus wrote:Everybody wants lamelo until this hothead starts freezing others out. NTY
? His biggest skill is getting others easy shots. Why would he freeze others out? Nothing about anything hes done on the court ever indicates that he freezes others out. Its one thing to be worried about the Ball factor and a possible media circus but let's not start blowing things out of proportion. If he freezes others out and hes the best playmaker in the draft then what does it say about the other PGs in this draft?

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He averaged 19 points on less than 30 percent shooting in a lesser league than the ncaa. He has bust written all over him.


The NBL is not a lesser league than the NCAA most NBL teams would destroy any college team and the adult professional athletes are in general more physical bigger stronger faster
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#64 » by TheGreenArrow » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:31 pm

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#65 » by El Poochio » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:38 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:
Read on Twitter


Soooon!!!!!!


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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#66 » by 8516knicks » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:16 pm

Gary Parrish's latest mock has us taking Cole Anthony AND Kira Lewis in the first round. (reminds me of Minny taking Rubio and another point guard in the same year).
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#67 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:03 pm

Oscirus wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Oscirus wrote:Everybody wants lamelo until this hothead starts freezing others out. NTY
? His biggest skill is getting others easy shots. Why would he freeze others out? Nothing about anything hes done on the court ever indicates that he freezes others out. Its one thing to be worried about the Ball factor and a possible media circus but let's not start blowing things out of proportion. If he freezes others out and hes the best playmaker in the draft then what does it say about the other PGs in this draft?

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He averaged 19 points on less than 30 percent shooting in a lesser league than the ncaa. He has bust written all over him.



This also not true, his shooting slashes are 37.5/25/72.3. Don't get me wrong, it's not pretty but he's the youngest player in the league playing on it's worst team. I'm not going to pretend he's a good shooter but I'm sure as the best player he got a ton of end of shot clock bail out shots that hurt his average some. We're also only working on a 12 game sample size with the last two being triple doubles. You'd think there'd be some learning curve for him after moving half way around the world.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#68 » by malik959 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:36 pm

knickstape21 wrote:
btuned wrote:How does Cole Anthony compare to Donovan Mitchell coming out of College? Sounds like theyre of a similar mold (although Donovan has a wider wingspan.)

Edit: took a look at some per game and advanced stats - looks like Donovan was either better or at least similar across almost all stats. Remembering that even then people were not convinced about this ability to impact in the NBA and it took him a substantial leap/right system in the NBA for him to flourish, doesnt this make Cole a much more risky propsect?


Like someone said before, Donovan is much more explosive, craftier, athletic, and physical than Anthony.

Only reason Mitchell really fell is because we had amateurs saying “is he a 1 or is he a 2?” and “he’s undersized for a guard.” Like positions even matter anymore. Give the man the ball and get out the way is how I see it. His college highlights are incredible and I remember watching Louisville vs NC State and surprise surprise... Mitchell made Dennis “I could absolutely care less” Smith his ******.

That was in his sophomore year, Mitchell's Freshman year was more Ho Humm. His freshman year was nothing like his sophomore year in-which Mitchell increased every stat from year one to two by a great margin. Yes he was the more superior athlete at that age, heck Mitch could get by on that alone at that age. But as far as filling up the stat sheet Cole kills Mitch. I would say the only thing Mitch had over Cole was his shooting percentage, He also had a better team, yet his assist were lower.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#69 » by EMG518 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:26 pm

8516knicks wrote:Gary Parrish's latest mock has us taking Cole Anthony AND Kira Lewis in the first round. (reminds me of Minny taking Rubio and another point guard in the same year).


I remember that well.. They took Rubio and Johnny Flynn over Steph and then also drafted Ty Lawson in the 1st but traded him.

I do not want that for this team, Kira Lewis, all for it with our second pick. Cole Anthony, absolutely not.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#70 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:00 am

The fact that he can hit pull up jumpers off the dribble.. stepbacks.. and then be a dominating force in the paint is just terrifying. Better hope he's not in the east if the Knicks don't get him
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#71 » by WargamesX » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:05 am

3toheadmelo wrote:The fact that he can hit pull up jumpers off the dribble.. stepbacks.. and then be a dominating force in the paint is just terrifying. Better hope he's not in the east if the Knicks don't get him


Can he at least defend against other centers?
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#72 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:27 am

WargamesX wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:The fact that he can hit pull up jumpers off the dribble.. stepbacks.. and then be a dominating force in the paint is just terrifying. Better hope he's not in the east if the Knicks don't get him


Can he at least defend against other centers?

Yes sir
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#73 » by Fat » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:21 am

3toheadmelo wrote:The fact that he can hit pull up jumpers off the dribble.. stepbacks.. and then be a dominating force in the paint is just terrifying. Better hope he's not in the east if the Knicks don't get him


i like wiseman but drafting a big when we have a huge hole at pg? :dontknow:

He didnt exactly show anything elite in the 3 college games that mitchell cant already do. Not to say he doesnt have the potential to be the next great big i just dont see the game changing skill set he'd bring to the team that puts him in the "must have" category. He's a safe pick none the least though. i dont feel its a pick thats really gonna give us that push we need and if he's not draining the long ball Or midrange at a respectable percentage you might as well just add him to the collection of bigs we have that need the ball around the rim to be truly effective =/
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#74 » by YouthMovement » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:10 am

i may have missed this but is the draft lottery still in may ?
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#75 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:08 pm

Naughtyfatboy wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:The fact that he can hit pull up jumpers off the dribble.. stepbacks.. and then be a dominating force in the paint is just terrifying. Better hope he's not in the east if the Knicks don't get him


i like wiseman but drafting a big when we have a huge hole at pg? :dontknow:

He didnt exactly show anything elite in the 3 college games that mitchell cant already do. Not to say he doesnt have the potential to be the next great big i just dont see the game changing skill set he'd bring to the team that puts him in the "must have" category. He's a safe pick none the least though. i dont feel its a pick thats really gonna give us that push we need and if he's not draining the long ball Or midrange at a respectable percentage you might as well just add him to the collection of bigs we have that need the ball around the rim to be truly effective =/

He showed mid range in college and was dominant in the paint tho. Mitch can’t do that. Mitch is just a rim runner. That’s the big difference between them.

I get we need a PG but we need the best player available. Like moocow and others have said, nobody on this team should stop us from drafting anybody. Wiseman has more star potential than all of the point guards. Just draft Kira Lewis with another pick or sign Fred van fleet. Or tank for a Pg next year. What’s the rush anyways? We gonna be ass for the next couple of years. Lol

I hate this mindset that we need to draft a point guard no matter what. The Knicks need star players. That should be the priority. This is the same argument I had with yall about Tatum. Many of you guys kept saying you did not want to draft Tatum because we need a point guard so bad. Even as going as far saying drafting Frank over Tatum should be the move :crazy: Hell yall was on that same Bs with Garland last season and he’s terrible...
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#76 » by HighRyzer83 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:11 pm

If you have a chance to grab Cole Anthony at 6, you take it and run. Now is not the time to get cute. Plenty of people advocated for deron William and Felton over CP3. In terms of floor generalship and pure talent, Cole is the closest to Chris Paul under similar circumstances.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#77 » by knickstape21 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:32 pm

HighRyzer83 wrote:If you have a chance to grab Cole Anthony at 6, you take it and run. Now is not the time to get cute. Plenty of people advocated for deron William and Felton over CP3. In terms of floor generalship and pure talent, Cole is the closest to Chris Paul under similar circumstances.


Yikes. Chris Paul is a master PG... Cole Anthony is not.

I think Anthony’s ceiling is Kyle Lowry.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#78 » by RHODEY » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:45 pm

HighRyzer83 wrote:If you have a chance to grab Cole Anthony at 6, you take it and run. Now is not the time to get cute. Plenty of people advocated for deron William and Felton over CP3. In terms of floor generalship and pure talent, Cole is the closest to Chris Paul under similar circumstances.

Floor generalship? Court vision isn't Cole's forte.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#79 » by 8516knicks » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:14 pm

Wasn't there a rumor Cole's teammates didn't like him (not sure UNC or HS)? Even if his talent is there and other posts question that as have NBA/scouts on other mock draft articles, it's not all about talent but getting a team to play together well. Remember the Lakers bounced DLO after his rookie hijinks pissed off their vets.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#80 » by spree8 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:36 pm

I don’t think we’re gunna be lucky enough to get Wiseman, but no doubt about it, if he’s there, you take him and run. Idc what anybody says, he’s got the most star potential in the draft... Edwards is there too, but his efficiency is suspect.

Mitch is nice n all, but come on... he can’t score like Wiseman. We could trade Mitch elsewhere for a top pick or proven player on a rookie deal... plenty of teams would want him. A combo of RJ n Wiseman would be a nice foundation to build on.

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