OT: Panic Buying. When Will it End?

[jrask]

Really? You backed yourself in a corner because most of the stuff you claimed in this thread is wrong. And you have the nerve to say I am grasping at straws? Strawman argument? Do you even know what that means?

You claim about ease of mask use, like a watch - I posted clinical study showing nurses and doctors do the very thing you claim people do not and they are literally trained and used to masks. WRONG, yet now you complain about using clinical studies? But you can just THINK that is what happens, great argument - grasping at straws

You post a BS post about public purchase of masks do not effect hospital supply because the hospitals do not shop at Home Depot. Really? WRONG

You then post several articles - I read them all and most proved my point, they are not much if any benefit of a healthy person wearing a mask. One math theory suggest 50% of masks = 6% reduction VS NO MASKS. Literally no one made a claim about no masks, yet that is your remaining point - a straw man argument. LOL

You crapped on the CDC - their policy has never changed - so they are not just saying that now to keep supply. South Korea, Japan and Singapore also have the EXACT same guidelines - WRONG again

You then respond to a video in which I comment on eye wear in PREVENTING getting the virus. Literally capitalized it for you and you go on about two way transmission. WTF does that have to do with what I said, I was talking about one way. Indeed argued with me about goggles and made a comment of doctors only wearing masks and no goggles? And “WTF you think they(Doctors) are stupid”. That was directed at him and again you love strawman arguments.

To the rest of your post

My responses were about either the protection the HEALTHY wearer gets from a mask (when people were arguing how effective or protective it was for them) which was the start of the discussion when people were complaining the CDC,WHO, NHS were lying then masking the entire population (mostly in regards to spreading, which spreading can only happen by infecting HEALTHY people). I posted dozens of times specifically writing HEALTHY to make it clear in regards to people wearing masks and its effectiveness. I posted dozens of times (I think every time) masking sick and HCW came up. I ALWAYS SAID SICK, HCW NEEDED TO BE MASKED AND SPECIAL CASES - so what is left, healthy general population

N95 mask was about effectiveness in a clinic compared to a surgical mask in response to someone posting the amount of droplets the n95 masks stop in a lab test. This was to prove a lab test does not equal real world results. Also proved that wearing a mask was not as easy as wearing a watch, as a n95 mask did not perform better than a loose fitting surgical mask, because they noted face touching, mask moving, mask sealing, etc).

“It was never about 100% of people wearing them right” . Well if you don’t know how many people are wearing them correctly how can you claim they are effective in either mass or single use. Like how is that not important to find a baseline. If 5% of people wear them correctly, WTF would you mask everyone, ever. I stated dozens of times that there is minimal effect if wearing it incorrectly, but can be beneficial if worn correctly but eye wear should be worn for the greatest effect.

“It was never about clinical use” Well that is most of the data we can go off of. And people (like yourself) are claiming things that are not true even in a clinical setting where people are trained and are used to masks but they are okay to apply whatever they THINK MIGHT happen to the general public. Yeah that is a great line of thought.

No one said anything about fully protective. We were discussing effectiveness. You sorta have to figure out how effective something is to determine if it is worth doing. 1% effectiveness is worth millions and millions of masks? No, better off putting those resources to testing kits, etc. No one said it needed to be fully effective

You are the one that brought up ingestion so why are you writing like it is something I brought up

I keep bringing the same stuff up in different ways because I get multiple people quoting me and replying to separate things that I had already posted. Some have been responding as if they misinterpreted incorrectly or I worded it poorly so I would reply. Sorry that I reply to people on a message board to try to clarify or prove a point.

But you are right the countless joke posts about "anti mask" people are way more informative and way stronger points.

You again?

He’s at it again boys

Yeah great response. People get proven wrong so then the sarcastic comments come out.

Maybe stop making BS claims like my point keeps changing when it never has. Or trying to save face how exactly?

Everyone keeps talking crap but then can’t actually back it up. All bark

You are right guys, everyone go back to insult the CDC and saying we should go follow Asian countries guidelines... Oh wait they are the same...

I bet you’re an anti-Vaxxer too

Do you believe the earth is flat?

What are your thoughts on big foot?

[Indeed]

Just stop engaging with this dude

I don’t even think he knows what he’s arguing for anymore. Just talking in circles.....trying to save-face at any cost

Really? You backed yourself in a corner because most of the stuff you claimed in this thread is wrong. And you have the nerve to say I am grasping at straws? Strawman argument? Do you even know what that means?

You claim about ease of mask use, like a watch - I posted clinical study showing nurses and doctors do the very thing you claim people do not and they are literally trained and used to masks. WRONG, yet now you complain about using clinical studies? But you can just THINK that is what happens, great argument - grasping at straws

You post a BS post about public purchase of masks do not effect hospital supply because the hospitals do not shop at Home Depot. Really? WRONG

You then post several articles - I read them all and most proved my point, they are not much if any benefit of a healthy person wearing a mask. One math theory suggest 50% of masks = 6% reduction VS NO MASKS. Literally no one made a claim about no masks, yet that is your remaining point - a straw man argument. LOL

You crapped on the CDC - their policy has never changed - so they are not just saying that now to keep supply. South Korea, Japan and Singapore also have the EXACT same guidelines - WRONG again

You then respond to a video in which I comment on eye wear in PREVENTING getting the virus. Literally capitalized it for you and you go on about two way transmission. WTF does that have to do with what I said, I was talking about one way. Indeed argued with me about goggles and made a comment of doctors only wearing masks and no goggles? And “WTF you think they(Doctors) are stupid”. That was directed at him and again you love strawman arguments.

To the rest of your post

My responses were about either the protection the HEALTHY wearer gets from a mask (when people were arguing how effective or protective it was for them) which was the start of the discussion when people were complaining the CDC,WHO, NHS were lying then masking the entire population (mostly in regards to spreading, which spreading can only happen by infecting HEALTHY people). I posted dozens of times specifically writing HEALTHY to make it clear in regards to people wearing masks and its effectiveness. I posted dozens of times (I think every time) masking sick and HCW came up. I ALWAYS SAID SICK, HCW NEEDED TO BE MASKED AND SPECIAL CASES - so what is left, healthy general population

N95 mask was about effectiveness in a clinic compared to a surgical mask in response to someone posting the amount of droplets the n95 masks stop in a lab test. This was to prove a lab test does not equal real world results. Also proved that wearing a mask was not as easy as wearing a watch, as a n95 mask did not perform better than a loose fitting surgical mask, because they noted face touching, mask moving, mask sealing, etc).

“It was never about 100% of people wearing them right” . Well if you don’t know how many people are wearing them correctly how can you claim they are effective in either mass or single use. Like how is that not important to find a baseline. If 5% of people wear them correctly, WTF would you mask everyone, ever. I stated dozens of times that there is minimal effect if wearing it incorrectly, but can be beneficial if worn correctly but eye wear should be worn for the greatest effect.

“It was never about clinical use” Well that is most of the data we can go off of. And people (like yourself) are claiming things that are not true even in a clinical setting where people are trained and are used to masks but they are okay to apply whatever they THINK MIGHT happen to the general public. Yeah that is a great line of thought.

No one said anything about fully protective. We were discussing effectiveness. You sorta have to figure out how effective something is to determine if it is worth doing. 1% effectiveness is worth millions and millions of masks? No, better off putting those resources to testing kits, etc. No one said it needed to be fully effective

You are the one that brought up ingestion so why are you writing like it is something I brought up

I keep bringing the same stuff up in different ways because I get multiple people quoting me and replying to separate things that I had already posted. Some have been responding as if they misinterpreted incorrectly or I worded it poorly so I would reply. Sorry that I reply to people on a message board to try to clarify or prove a point.

But you are right the countless joke posts about "anti mask" people are way more informative and way stronger points.

You again?

He’s at it again boys

The problem on this Coronavirus, is that you may not show any symptom, and many are not aware they have it, therefore, they are without wearing a mask. Those people would be more effective, true, but if they don't wear a mask, the healthy people wearing a mask would also reduce their chances.

There are places where you simply can't social distancing, such as supermarket over the weekend. Someone coming from the opposite direction, and to walk pass you, you are not social distancing. Those protocol in supermarket mainly protect the workers, not customers.

[CantStopTheRock]

You again?

He’s at it again boys

Yeah great response. People get proven wrong so then the sarcastic comments come out.

Maybe stop making BS claims like my point keeps changing when it never has. Or trying to save face how exactly?

Everyone keeps talking crap but then can’t actually back it up. All bark

You are right guys, everyone go back to insult the CDC and saying we should go follow Asian countries guidelines... Oh wait they are the same...

I bet you’re an anti-Vaxxer too

Do you believe the earth is flat?

What are your thoughts on big foot?

Yeah anti-vaxxer as well because it is not like there are case studies demonstrating there effectiveness, you know like the ones most of you ignore for masks.

Flat earth as well - you got me, it’s a little embarrassing.

Big Foot - Well according to you, you only need to THINK it is true- who needs proof

Funny you talk about me doing circles and you only post sarcastic remarks because you have nothing else.

Your right, I'm wrong for suggesting the same thing as CDC, WHO, NHS, Ministry of health of USA, Canada, Japan, Singapore, South Korea. So dumb of me, that really deserves a remark about anti-vaccine, flat earth, and big foot. I think all those organizations must believe in those as well

[SaveTheHens]

Yeah great response. People get proven wrong so then the sarcastic comments come out.

Maybe stop making BS claims like my point keeps changing when it never has. Or trying to save face how exactly?

Everyone keeps talking crap but then can’t actually back it up. All bark

You are right guys, everyone go back to insult the CDC and saying we should go follow Asian countries guidelines... Oh wait they are the same...

I bet you’re an anti-Vaxxer too

Do you believe the earth is flat?

What are your thoughts on big foot?

Yeah anti-vaxxer as well because it is not like there are case studies demonstrating there effectiveness, you know like the ones most of you ignore for masks. Funny everyone propping up Asian countries when many of them have low vaccination rates compared to Western countries...

Flat earth as well - you got me, it’s a little embrassing.

Big Foot - Well according to you, you only need to THINK it is true to be real - why need proof

Funny you talk about me doing circles and you only post sarcastic remarks because you have nothing else.

Your right, I'm wrong for suggesting the same thing as CDC, WHO, NHS, Ministry of health of USA, Canada, Japan, Singapore, South Korea. So dumb of me, that really deserves a remark about anti-vaccine, flat earth, and big foot. I think all those organizations believe those as well.

Sorry for piping in and not even relating to the topic lol. But just saying that it's helpful to let your hope go in some people. I've encountered too many similar situations in life where the other person isn't even trying to understand your arguments anymore, they just want to protect the worldview they're having. No matter of rationality or sense will change their mindset, no words or thoughts can shift where they are at, only experience or motivation to be open to new information. I don't even know who was right or wrong in this situation lol but based on their responses just seem to be an ego play for them while you're genuinely trying to explain your point. Save that genuineness for the people who can turn those refined ideas into something else, who won't use their responses to distract you to try and diminish your argument, but who either appreciate the idea or can still understand it and link it to their own idea. Life's too short, put quality into where quality is received, otherwise you'll lose faith in your own quality ( I did for a while lol).

[hankscorpioLA]

Really? You backed yourself in a corner because most of the stuff you claimed in this thread is wrong. And you have the nerve to say I am grasping at straws? Strawman argument? Do you even know what that means?

You claim about ease of mask use, like a watch - I posted clinical study showing nurses and doctors do the very thing you claim people do not and they are literally trained and used to masks. WRONG, yet now you complain about using clinical studies? But you can just THINK that is what happens, great argument - grasping at straws

You post a BS post about public purchase of masks do not effect hospital supply because the hospitals do not shop at Home Depot. Really? WRONG

You then post several articles - I read them all and most proved my point, they are not much if any benefit of a healthy person wearing a mask. One math theory suggest 50% of masks = 6% reduction VS NO MASKS. Literally no one made a claim about no masks, yet that is your remaining point - a straw man argument. LOL

You crapped on the CDC - their policy has never changed - so they are not just saying that now to keep supply. South Korea, Japan and Singapore also have the EXACT same guidelines - WRONG again

You then respond to a video in which I comment on eye wear in PREVENTING getting the virus. Literally capitalized it for you and you go on about two way transmission. WTF does that have to do with what I said, I was talking about one way. Indeed argued with me about goggles and made a comment of doctors only wearing masks and no goggles? And “WTF you think they(Doctors) are stupid”. That was directed at him and again you love strawman arguments.

To the rest of your post

My responses were about either the protection the HEALTHY wearer gets from a mask (when people were arguing how effective or protective it was for them) which was the start of the discussion when people were complaining the CDC,WHO, NHS were lying then masking the entire population (mostly in regards to spreading, which spreading can only happen by infecting HEALTHY people). I posted dozens of times specifically writing HEALTHY to make it clear in regards to people wearing masks and its effectiveness. I posted dozens of times (I think every time) masking sick and HCW came up. I ALWAYS SAID SICK, HCW NEEDED TO BE MASKED AND SPECIAL CASES - so what is left, healthy general population

N95 mask was about effectiveness in a clinic compared to a surgical mask in response to someone posting the amount of droplets the n95 masks stop in a lab test. This was to prove a lab test does not equal real world results. Also proved that wearing a mask was not as easy as wearing a watch, as a n95 mask did not perform better than a loose fitting surgical mask, because they noted face touching, mask moving, mask sealing, etc).

“It was never about 100% of people wearing them right” . Well if you don’t know how many people are wearing them correctly how can you claim they are effective in either mass or single use. Like how is that not important to find a baseline. If 5% of people wear them correctly, WTF would you mask everyone, ever. I stated dozens of times that there is minimal effect if wearing it incorrectly, but can be beneficial if worn correctly but eye wear should be worn for the greatest effect.

“It was never about clinical use” Well that is most of the data we can go off of. And people (like yourself) are claiming things that are not true even in a clinical setting where people are trained and are used to masks but they are okay to apply whatever they THINK MIGHT happen to the general public. Yeah that is a great line of thought.

No one said anything about fully protective. We were discussing effectiveness. You sorta have to figure out how effective something is to determine if it is worth doing. 1% effectiveness is worth millions and millions of masks? No, better off putting those resources to testing kits, etc. No one said it needed to be fully effective

You are the one that brought up ingestion so why are you writing like it is something I brought up

I keep bringing the same stuff up in different ways because I get multiple people quoting me and replying to separate things that I had already posted. Some have been responding as if they misinterpreted incorrectly or I worded it poorly so I would reply. Sorry that I reply to people on a message board to try to clarify or prove a point.

But you are right the countless joke posts about "anti mask" people are way more informative and way stronger points.

You again?

He’s at it again boys

The problem on this Coronavirus, is that you may not show any symptom, and many are not aware they have it, therefore, they are without wearing a mask. Those people would be more effective, true, but if they don't wear a mask, the healthy people wearing a mask would also reduce their chances.

There are places where you simply can't social distancing, such as supermarket over the weekend. Someone coming from the opposite direction, and to walk pass you, you are not social distancing. Those protocol in supermarket mainly protect the workers, not customers.

That's not how social distancing works. It's not like being 6 feet apart creates some magical shield against the virus.

It's about probability.

Think if it like a starting hand of Texas Hold Em. AA is the best hand you can have, but it still only wins less than half the time. 27x is the worst hand you can have, but even that hand can win sometimes.

Social distancing is about denying the virus any powerful starting hands. Those are behaviors that most easily spread the virus. By staying home, leaving only for essential needs (including exercise), and habitually maintaining distance from others, you probably remove 90% of the viruses potential winning hands. Now...if you happen to find yourself within less than 6 feet of someone for a couple of seconds, that isn't going to alter your odds at all.

Same thing if you happen to touch a surface that happened to have been touched by someone with the virus some indeterminate period of time before. Yes, the virus can live on surfaces, but to infect you it would have to go from the lungs of the infected person onto their hands, then on to the surface, then on to your hands, then into your nose and mouth and then into your lungs. That's a highly improbable chain of events.

Masks are a bit of a unique case. Masks will protect you if you are unable to practice social distancing. But they provide minimal benefits if you are. And they are much LESS effective than social distancing at slowing the spread of the virus, and potentially even more harmful if they give people a false sense of security.

So essentially, if you are in a situation that prevents you from social distancing, you should probably be wearing a mask right now. Same if you are elderly or immunocompromised. I also think masks will play a bigger role when we start trying to return to normal, and I think eventually they will be much more accepted in Western society.

[CantStopTheRock]

I bet you’re an anti-Vaxxer too

Do you believe the earth is flat?

What are your thoughts on big foot?

Yeah anti-vaxxer as well because it is not like there are case studies demonstrating there effectiveness, you know like the ones most of you ignore for masks. Funny everyone propping up Asian countries when many of them have low vaccination rates compared to Western countries...

Flat earth as well - you got me, it’s a little embrassing.

Big Foot - Well according to you, you only need to THINK it is true to be real - why need proof

Funny you talk about me doing circles and you only post sarcastic remarks because you have nothing else.

Your right, I'm wrong for suggesting the same thing as CDC, WHO, NHS, Ministry of health of USA, Canada, Japan, Singapore, South Korea. So dumb of me, that really deserves a remark about anti-vaccine, flat earth, and big foot. I think all those organizations believe those as well.

Sorry for piping in and not even relating to the topic lol. But just saying that it's helpful to let your hope go in some people. I've encountered too many similar situations in life where the other person isn't even trying to understand your arguments anymore, they just want to protect the worldview they're having. No matter of rationality or sense will change their mindset, no words or thoughts can shift where they are at, only experience or motivation to be open to new information. I don't even know who was right or wrong in this situation lol but based on their responses just seem to be an ego play for them while you're genuinely trying to explain your point. Save that genuineness for the people who can turn those refined ideas into something else, who won't use their responses to distract you to try and diminish your argument, but who either appreciate the idea or can still understand it and link it to their own idea. Life's too short, put quality into where quality is received, otherwise you'll lose faith in your own quality ( I did for a while lol).

You are right, not really worth it. I would normally ignore it but there is little to do around my house, my wife is a HCP so it is pretty boring around here by myself.

Literally sitting here with my dog, staring at my half built pool, drinking beer and smoking ribs. Speaking of which, I need to find a butcher that is not rammed. One in town was a ~120 person wait to get in last week

[CantStopTheRock]

You again?

He’s at it again boys

The problem on this Coronavirus, is that you may not show any symptom, and many are not aware they have it, therefore, they are without wearing a mask. Those people would be more effective, true, but if they don't wear a mask, the healthy people wearing a mask would also reduce their chances.

There are places where you simply can't social distancing, such as supermarket over the weekend. Someone coming from the opposite direction, and to walk pass you, you are not social distancing. Those protocol in supermarket mainly protect the workers, not customers.

That's not how social distancing works. It's not like being 6 feet apart creates some magical shield against the virus.

It's about probability.

Think if it like a starting hand of Texas Hold Em. AA is the best hand you can have, but it still only wins less than half the time. 27x is the worst hand you can have, but even that hand can win sometimes.

Social distancing is about denying the virus any powerful starting hands. Those are behaviors that most easily spread the virus. By staying home, leaving only for essential needs (including exercise), and habitually maintaining distance from others, you probably remove 90% of the viruses potential winning hands. Now...if you happen to find yourself within less than 6 feet of someone for a couple of seconds, that isn't going to alter your odds at all.

Same thing if you happen to touch a surface that happened to have been touched by someone with the virus some indeterminate period of time before. Yes, the virus can live on surfaces, but to infect you it would have to go from the lungs of the infected person onto their hands, then on to the surface, then on to your hands, then into your nose and mouth and then into your lungs. That's a highly improbable chain of events.

Masks are a bit of a unique case. Masks will protect you if you are unable to practice social distancing. But they provide minimal benefits if you are. And they are much LESS effective than social distancing at slowing the spread of the virus, and potentially even more harmful if they give people a false sense of security.

So essentially, if you are in a situation that prevents you from social distancing, you should probably be wearing a mask right now. Same if you are elderly or immunocompromised. I also think masks will play a bigger role when we start trying to return to normal, and I think eventually they will be much more accepted in Western society.

Well if some good can come out of this hopefully the stigma of masks go away and people who are sick are more inclined to stay home or if they do need to go out they cover up with a mask. Hopefully overall hygiene improves as well

[Kevin Willis]

That's not how social distancing works. It's not like being 6 feet apart creates some magical shield against the virus.

It's about probability.

Think if it like a starting hand of Texas Hold Em. AA is the best hand you can have, but it still only wins less than half the time. 27x is the worst hand you can have, but even that hand can win sometimes.

Social distancing is about denying the virus any powerful starting hands. Those are behaviors that most easily spread the virus. By staying home, leaving only for essential needs (including exercise), and habitually maintaining distance from others, you probably remove 90% of the viruses potential winning hands. Now...if you happen to find yourself within less than 6 feet of someone for a couple of seconds, that isn't going to alter your odds at all.

Same thing if you happen to touch a surface that happened to have been touched by someone with the virus some indeterminate period of time before. Yes, the virus can live on surfaces, but to infect you it would have to go from the lungs of the infected person onto their hands, then on to the surface, then on to your hands, then into your nose and mouth and then into your lungs. That's a highly improbable chain of events.

Masks are a bit of a unique case. Masks will protect you if you are unable to practice social distancing. But they provide minimal benefits if you are. And they are much LESS effective than social distancing at slowing the spread of the virus, and potentially even more harmful if they give people a false sense of security.

So essentially, if you are in a situation that prevents you from social distancing, you should probably be wearing a mask right now. Same if you are elderly or immunocompromised. I also think masks will play a bigger role when we start trying to return to normal, and I think eventually they will be much more accepted in Western society.

Good post. i went shopping this morning and looks like the supply chain is back to normal and they had discounts like they usually do. Price gauging is not just about jacking up prices but also about not giving discounts on things that are usually discounted like foods that are approaching their due date. Today was normal. I talked to the store manager about the situation and he said it's tough to work now but what annoyed him was people are not listening. They get mad when they have to wait in line to get in. Even though there is plenty of room they still get too close too each other. They line-up too close to each other and some come in coughing. He said the usual he has never been through something like this but it would help if people just did what they're told. As I was leaving I noticed a lady all up in my personal space. I gave her a look of 'I don't know you like that gf'. Completely oblivious, then he walked by and shook his head - I knew what he meant.

On another note, I'm keeping my eye on how Cali is doing. They have a similar population to Canada and it would be a good judge on who is managing this virus better.

[CantStopTheRock]

That's not how social distancing works. It's not like being 6 feet apart creates some magical shield against the virus.

It's about probability.

Think if it like a starting hand of Texas Hold Em. AA is the best hand you can have, but it still only wins less than half the time. 27x is the worst hand you can have, but even that hand can win sometimes.

Social distancing is about denying the virus any powerful starting hands. Those are behaviors that most easily spread the virus. By staying home, leaving only for essential needs (including exercise), and habitually maintaining distance from others, you probably remove 90% of the viruses potential winning hands. Now...if you happen to find yourself within less than 6 feet of someone for a couple of seconds, that isn't going to alter your odds at all.

Same thing if you happen to touch a surface that happened to have been touched by someone with the virus some indeterminate period of time before. Yes, the virus can live on surfaces, but to infect you it would have to go from the lungs of the infected person onto their hands, then on to the surface, then on to your hands, then into your nose and mouth and then into your lungs. That's a highly improbable chain of events.

Masks are a bit of a unique case. Masks will protect you if you are unable to practice social distancing. But they provide minimal benefits if you are. And they are much LESS effective than social distancing at slowing the spread of the virus, and potentially even more harmful if they give people a false sense of security.

So essentially, if you are in a situation that prevents you from social distancing, you should probably be wearing a mask right now. Same if you are elderly or immunocompromised. I also think masks will play a bigger role when we start trying to return to normal, and I think eventually they will be much more accepted in Western society.

Good post. i went shopping this morning and looks like the supply chain is back to normal and they had discounts like they usually do. Price gauging is not just about jacking up prices but also about not giving discounts on things that are usually discounted like foods that are approaching their due date. Today was normal. I talked to the store manager about the situation and he said it's tough to work now but what annoyed him was people are not listening. They get mad when they have to wait in line to get in. Even though there is plenty of room they still get too close too each other. They line-up too close to each other and some come in coughing. He said the usual he has never been through something like this but it would help if people just did what they're told. As I was leaving I noticed a lady all up in my personal space. I gave her a look of 'I don't know you like that gf'. Completely oblivious, then he walked by and shook his head - I knew what he meant.

On another note, I'm keeping my eye on how Cali is doing. They have a similar population to Canada and it would be a good judge on who is managing this virus better.

Well I think it will come down to how serious people take the recommendations and depending on that if the government chooses to enforce them, mainly social distancing.

The *next* biggest problem right now is testing and tracking. Edit

One of my best friend believes he has. Fever for 9 days now, every symptom. Travels a lot, interacts with a lot of people. But they told him they are not testing anyone his age (34) with no pre-existing condition. They told him to take 8 Tylenol a day and prescribed antibiotics for pneumonia as a precaution. He let everyone know that he has it. If we are not testing people like that, and tracking possible contacts it could get ugly.

[hankscorpioLA]

That's not how social distancing works. It's not like being 6 feet apart creates some magical shield against the virus.

It's about probability.

Think if it like a starting hand of Texas Hold Em. AA is the best hand you can have, but it still only wins less than half the time. 27x is the worst hand you can have, but even that hand can win sometimes.

Social distancing is about denying the virus any powerful starting hands. Those are behaviors that most easily spread the virus. By staying home, leaving only for essential needs (including exercise), and habitually maintaining distance from others, you probably remove 90% of the viruses potential winning hands. Now...if you happen to find yourself within less than 6 feet of someone for a couple of seconds, that isn't going to alter your odds at all.

Same thing if you happen to touch a surface that happened to have been touched by someone with the virus some indeterminate period of time before. Yes, the virus can live on surfaces, but to infect you it would have to go from the lungs of the infected person onto their hands, then on to the surface, then on to your hands, then into your nose and mouth and then into your lungs. That's a highly improbable chain of events.

Masks are a bit of a unique case. Masks will protect you if you are unable to practice social distancing. But they provide minimal benefits if you are. And they are much LESS effective than social distancing at slowing the spread of the virus, and potentially even more harmful if they give people a false sense of security.

So essentially, if you are in a situation that prevents you from social distancing, you should probably be wearing a mask right now. Same if you are elderly or immunocompromised. I also think masks will play a bigger role when we start trying to return to normal, and I think eventually they will be much more accepted in Western society.

Good post. i went shopping this morning and looks like the supply chain is back to normal and they had discounts like they usually do. Price gauging is not just about jacking up prices but also about not giving discounts on things that are usually discounted like foods that are approaching their due date. Today was normal. I talked to the store manager about the situation and he said it's tough to work now but what annoyed him was people are not listening. They get mad when they have to wait in line to get in. Even though there is plenty of room they still get too close too each other. They line-up too close to each other and some come in coughing. He said the usual he has never been through something like this but it would help if people just did what they're told. As I was leaving I noticed a lady all up in my personal space. I gave her a look of 'I don't know you like that gf'. Completely oblivious, then he walked by and shook his head - I knew what he meant.

On another note, I'm keeping my eye on how Cali is doing. They have a similar population to Canada and it would be a good judge on who is managing this virus better.

So far it seems like we are doing pretty well, relatively speaking, but we will have a much better sense by mid-week.

Keep in mind that the Bay Area had one of the earliest outbreaks, but they acted quickly and decisively. Remember when they were criticized for being the first to order games be played without fans?

Had they acted in the same manner as most of the rest of the country, California would probably be New York right now. But they acted and that spurred other jurisdictions and the state to act quickly and decisively.

[hankscorpioLA]

That's not how social distancing works. It's not like being 6 feet apart creates some magical shield against the virus.

It's about probability.

Think if it like a starting hand of Texas Hold Em. AA is the best hand you can have, but it still only wins less than half the time. 27x is the worst hand you can have, but even that hand can win sometimes.

Social distancing is about denying the virus any powerful starting hands. Those are behaviors that most easily spread the virus. By staying home, leaving only for essential needs (including exercise), and habitually maintaining distance from others, you probably remove 90% of the viruses potential winning hands. Now...if you happen to find yourself within less than 6 feet of someone for a couple of seconds, that isn't going to alter your odds at all.

Same thing if you happen to touch a surface that happened to have been touched by someone with the virus some indeterminate period of time before. Yes, the virus can live on surfaces, but to infect you it would have to go from the lungs of the infected person onto their hands, then on to the surface, then on to your hands, then into your nose and mouth and then into your lungs. That's a highly improbable chain of events.

Masks are a bit of a unique case. Masks will protect you if you are unable to practice social distancing. But they provide minimal benefits if you are. And they are much LESS effective than social distancing at slowing the spread of the virus, and potentially even more harmful if they give people a false sense of security.

So essentially, if you are in a situation that prevents you from social distancing, you should probably be wearing a mask right now. Same if you are elderly or immunocompromised. I also think masks will play a bigger role when we start trying to return to normal, and I think eventually they will be much more accepted in Western society.

Good post. i went shopping this morning and looks like the supply chain is back to normal and they had discounts like they usually do. Price gauging is not just about jacking up prices but also about not giving discounts on things that are usually discounted like foods that are approaching their due date. Today was normal. I talked to the store manager about the situation and he said it's tough to work now but what annoyed him was people are not listening. They get mad when they have to wait in line to get in. Even though there is plenty of room they still get too close too each other. They line-up too close to each other and some come in coughing. He said the usual he has never been through something like this but it would help if people just did what they're told. As I was leaving I noticed a lady all up in my personal space. I gave her a look of 'I don't know you like that gf'. Completely oblivious, then he walked by and shook his head - I knew what he meant.

On another note, I'm keeping my eye on how Cali is doing. They have a similar population to Canada and it would be a good judge on who is managing this virus better.

Well I think it will come down to how serious people take the recommendations and depending on that if the government chooses to enforce them, mainly social distancing.

The biggest problem right now is testing and tracking.

One of my best friend believes he has. Fever for 9 days now, every symptom. Travels a lot, interacts with a lot of people. But they told him they are not testing anyone his age (34) with no pre-existing condition. They told him to take 8 Tylenol a day and prescribed antibiotics for pneumonia as a precaution. He let everyone know that he has it. If we are not testing people like that, and tracking possible contacts it could get ugly.

We are well past the point where that would make much of a difference. Once you get to the point of mass community spread, individual contact tracing doesn't really matter. You do that to prevent community spread from happening.

[Indeed]

That's not how social distancing works. It's not like being 6 feet apart creates some magical shield against the virus.

It's about probability.

Think if it like a starting hand of Texas Hold Em. AA is the best hand you can have, but it still only wins less than half the time. 27x is the worst hand you can have, but even that hand can win sometimes.

Social distancing is about denying the virus any powerful starting hands. Those are behaviors that most easily spread the virus. By staying home, leaving only for essential needs (including exercise), and habitually maintaining distance from others, you probably remove 90% of the viruses potential winning hands. Now...if you happen to find yourself within less than 6 feet of someone for a couple of seconds, that isn't going to alter your odds at all.

Same thing if you happen to touch a surface that happened to have been touched by someone with the virus some indeterminate period of time before. Yes, the virus can live on surfaces, but to infect you it would have to go from the lungs of the infected person onto their hands, then on to the surface, then on to your hands, then into your nose and mouth and then into your lungs. That's a highly improbable chain of events.

Masks are a bit of a unique case. Masks will protect you if you are unable to practice social distancing. But they provide minimal benefits if you are. And they are much LESS effective than social distancing at slowing the spread of the virus, and potentially even more harmful if they give people a false sense of security.

So essentially, if you are in a situation that prevents you from social distancing, you should probably be wearing a mask right now. Same if you are elderly or immunocompromised. I also think masks will play a bigger role when we start trying to return to normal, and I think eventually they will be much more accepted in Western society.

I think mostly you are right, except the mask part, where it is effective in Asia without social distancing. Social distancing is good, but washing your hands with mask and glasses with everyone doing it can be as effective. Mask is not effective, except for droplet type virus, and SARS / Coronvirus are exactly the droplet type that would be effective against when doing it right.

[CantStopTheRock]

Good post. i went shopping this morning and looks like the supply chain is back to normal and they had discounts like they usually do. Price gauging is not just about jacking up prices but also about not giving discounts on things that are usually discounted like foods that are approaching their due date. Today was normal. I talked to the store manager about the situation and he said it's tough to work now but what annoyed him was people are not listening. They get mad when they have to wait in line to get in. Even though there is plenty of room they still get too close too each other. They line-up too close to each other and some come in coughing. He said the usual he has never been through something like this but it would help if people just did what they're told. As I was leaving I noticed a lady all up in my personal space. I gave her a look of 'I don't know you like that gf'. Completely oblivious, then he walked by and shook his head - I knew what he meant.

On another note, I'm keeping my eye on how Cali is doing. They have a similar population to Canada and it would be a good judge on who is managing this virus better.

Well I think it will come down to how serious people take the recommendations and depending on that if the government chooses to enforce them, mainly social distancing.

The biggest problem right now is testing and tracking.

One of my best friend believes he has. Fever for 9 days now, every symptom. Travels a lot, interacts with a lot of people. But they told him they are not testing anyone his age (34) with no pre-existing condition. They told him to take 8 Tylenol a day and prescribed antibiotics for pneumonia as a precaution. He let everyone know that he has it. If we are not testing people like that, and tracking possible contacts it could get ugly.

We are well past the point where that would make much of a difference. Once you get to the point of mass community spread, individual contact tracing doesn't really matter. You do that to prevent community spread from happening.

Sorry, I meant to write next biggest problem right now (after how people social distance)

I am not sure how we are past that point that testing and tracking would not make much of a difference. Sure it is less effective now than early on, but that doesn't mean it is still not very important

We have 5672 confirmed cases of 37 million people, or 0.00015% of Canadians. Community spread accounts for 2/3 of cases, that is not mass community spread. Early detection and isolation and following up on contacts is very important. When you have community spread you do not have a good grasp of where the virus is or how to monitor it, treat it, isolate it. Essentially every Country is racing to improve testing for this very reason

[hankscorpioLA]

Well I think it will come down to how serious people take the recommendations and depending on that if the government chooses to enforce them, mainly social distancing.

The biggest problem right now is testing and tracking.

One of my best friend believes he has. Fever for 9 days now, every symptom. Travels a lot, interacts with a lot of people. But they told him they are not testing anyone his age (34) with no pre-existing condition. They told him to take 8 Tylenol a day and prescribed antibiotics for pneumonia as a precaution. He let everyone know that he has it. If we are not testing people like that, and tracking possible contacts it could get ugly.

We are well past the point where that would make much of a difference. Once you get to the point of mass community spread, individual contact tracing doesn't really matter. You do that to prevent community spread from happening.

Sorry, I meant to write next biggest problem right now (after how people social distance)

I am not sure how we are past that point that testing and tracking would not make much of a difference. Sure it is less effective now than early on, but that doesn't mean it is still not very important

We have 5672 confirmed cases of 37 million people, or 0.00015% of Canadians. Community spread accounts for 2/3 of cases, that is not mass community spread. Early detection and isolation and following up on contacts is very important. When you have community spread you do not have a good grasp of where the virus is or how to monitor it, treat it, isolate it. Essentially every Country is racing to improve testing for this very reason

What I am saying is that when you do testing early on, the goal is to stop the virus from spreading in the community. That's why you test and trace. You are trying to stop the genie from getting out of the bottle.

Once you miss that opportunity, testing becomes kind of irrelevant until you can do it on a massive scale. That's what we are building up to.

But in the interim, the value of testing is diminished, especially when you have stay at home orders anyway.

[Tacoma]

According to the CDC and other reputable sources, COVID-19 is spread most through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. They further say a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads.

Therefore, the main spread is via droplets created by mouths or noses of infected people via coughing and sneezing (and talking too since talking can create the same droplets) into the air. This being the case then it makes sense that all infected persons should wear a mask to prevent spreading. More pointedly, the main reason to wear a mask is not to keep the healthy from catching it, but rather to keep the infected from spreading it.

But since one can have COVID-19 without symptoms then, if we're being super cautious (which we are at this point), it makes sense for EVERYONE to be wearing a mask because anyone may unknowingly already have the virus.

[Kevin Willis]

According to the CDC and other reputable sources, COVID-19 is spread most through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. They further say a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads.

Therefore, the main spread is via droplets created by mouths or noses of infected people via coughing and sneezing (and talking too since talking can create the same droplets) into the air. This being the case then it makes sense that all infected persons should wear a mask to prevent spreading. More pointedly, the main reason to wear a mask is not to keep the healthy from catching it, but rather to keep the infected from spreading it.

But since one can have COVID-19 without symptoms then, if we're being super cautious (which we are at this point), it makes sense for EVERYONE to be wearing a mask because anyone may unknowingly already have the virus.

Yep. Wear a mask to protect others. I don't have a mask but I practise social distancing as hardcore as I can. When I do see someone walking by with a mask I always think thank you. They might not know it but they're wearing a mask more for someone like me than themselves.

[wayoftheroad]

I think canada is doing a much better job than the US. Going outside you can see it's so much more dead than it normally is and hopefully we see the results soon. I hate those ppl that are all doom and gloom. Start posting some positive ish guys.

And for the love of god enough with the essay responses here, ain't nobody got time for dat

[Hero_Panda]

And for the love of god enough with the essay responses here, ain't nobody got time for dat

Speak for yourself.
The well thought out responses are great learning tools that are very helpful to know during these harsh times.

I hope people "in the know" continue to contribute so others (like myself) can learn and be more mindful about the way to deal with best practices, social distancing, etc.

[NinjaBro]

where are you guys getting your masks? can't find them anywhere (not really going out much tho)

[Westside Gunn]

where are you guys getting your masks? can't find them anywhere (not really going out much tho)

3 sources for most people:

friends who work in hospitals
online from china
people who had some lying around in the house

I had a box of masks from the 2009 swine flu scare. took me a while to find it. i personally don't see the need for it unless im standing close to people, which I don't do at all. i keep my distance

**** we will all be so paranoid going from here