Was Patrick Ewing overrated?

[Lalouie]

i'm talking about where in the hierarchy of centers. bellamy was behind wilt, russell, and nate at least.
as was pat ewing no matter which decade you choose, but everyone talks about ewing like was heads and shoulders above which is all because he played in new york. you deny the nyc media had anything to do with this?

I was a journalist who covered the NBA when Patrick Ewing played and saw his collegiate and NBA career play out. Ewing is considered one of the best collegiate basketball players ever, putting the Georgetown program (and the Big East Conference) on the map and leading the Hoyas to three national championship games. Ewing was considered a major draw coming out of college, and it had nothing to do with the Knicks drafting him.

Ewing wasn't a Jeremy Lin-type media creation, but a premier ballyhooed NBA prospect with expectations of being nothing short of an all-time great (the general expectation for Ewing was "become the next Bill Russell or bust"). This topic is an example of the expectations placed on him -- even though Ewing was a slam dunk first-ballot hall of famer and perennial top five MVP candidate from 1989 through 1996, there are people who thought he never quite lived up to those unrealistic expectations.

Ewing was an elite player (top 10) in his prime, but the general consensus is outside of maybe 1990 Hakeem Olajuwon was better than him during the collective run in the league. When David Robinson came into the league in 1989, it took maybe two years for insiders and the general public to move The Admiral ahead of Ewing. When Shaquille O'Neal came into the league in 1992, it didn't take long for Shaq to surpass him.

Ewing was still an elite player, but there were three centers in the NBA who were considered even better than him. Olajuwon, Robinson and O'Neal had unprecedented skills and attributes, while Ewing had more conventional center qualities. In addition to the unrealistic expectations, Ewing had the misfortune of his career overlapping with three of the top seven centers in NBA history and Michael Jordan's Bulls dynasty.

Ewing is not a Walt Bellamy. Bellamy was just a good player who played a long time, had some runs on several marginal teams and had a reputation of not taking the game seriously (i.e. his lack of dedication). Ewing made New York a title contender in the 1990s and came within one game of leading the Knicks to the 1994 title with John Starks as arguably his best scoring teammate.

Ewing was a legitimate franchise cornerstone for his 15 years in New York; take away the Ewing era and the Knicks have not been relevant since the 1970s championship teams. Bellamy was a vagabond who spent most of his career hopping around to rebuilding teams, a la Howard when he left Orlando.

I would consider Ewing ahead of centers like Bellamy (four-time all-star), Howard (who has the same question marks as Bellamy) and Bob Lanier (all-star who toiled on losing teams). Once you get past the first two tiers of centers (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell are in my Tier I; Moses Malone, O'Neal, Olajuwon and Robinson are in my Tier II) and likely George Mikan, Ewing probably rates better than any other center in NBA history.

meeting expectations, realistic or not would be a consideration, would it not. the knicks were built around riley, then weakly continued through jvg. they got a bump with pitino and then riley. they were a team of continual miscues and mental faux pas. and ewing was just part of the group. they were nothing without the coaching and it was reflected in the w/l's. it was a crew that required coaching and ewing didn't come through in a way you should expect from one such as he. you can try to rationalize it all you want but it's always about the bottom line.

and i already said the bellamy/ewing comparison was about where both placed at the time they played. bellamy was not in russell/wilt/nate's league, and ewing was not in robinson/shaq/hakeem/moses/kaj's as i said before and as you pointed out. i think we're in agreement here....ewing is a third tier center. he's right there in the mix with the beatys and bellamys and laniers and howards and all those guys. i'm not going to quibble about who of them was better but as a GROUP,,,that's ewing's peer group. he'd drop further if injuries didn't beset sampson, and yao would battled him even. i think some people wanted to put him in the 2nd tier. with like moses 'n nate and stuff - nope. GOD,,,nate would turn ewing into a wimpering baby. he'd go out and guard pat and not let him shoot his jumpers

i will not deny ewing in his place in g'town history. he did win ONE. of course he got upset the next year when he put up a 14/5 and 1 blk versus 'nova

[DrCoach]

Ahhh Good Ole General Board.

Ewing is a top 10 Center of all time

[Najee12]

and i already said the bellamy/ewing comparison was about where both placed at the time they played. bellamy was not in russell/wilt/nate's league, and ewing was not in robinson/shaq/hakeem/moses/kaj's as i said before and as you pointed out. i think we're in agreement here....ewing is a third tier center. he's right there in the mix with the beatys and bellamys and laniers and howards and all those guys.

Outside of the elite seven (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Moses Malone, Shaquille O'Neal, Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson), the only center I would consider on the same tier as Patrick Ewing as George Mikan. Most of those other centers you named (Bob Lanier, Zelmo Beatty, Walt Bellamy, etc.) are at least two tiers below Ewing and maybe three or more.

Ewing was an 11-time all-star and seven-time all-NBA player who finished in the top five in MVP in 1988-89 (fourth), 1989-1990 (fifth), 1991-92 (fifth), 1992-93 (fourth), 1993-94 (fifth) and 1994-95 (fifth), along with finishing eighth in 1996-97. Ewing was the centerpiece of Knicks teams that were perennial contenders in the 1990s and went to Game 7 of the 1994 NBA Finals.

Beatty was a sporadic all-star level player (two in the NBA, three in the ABA) who I would list as not even one of the top 25 centers in NBA history. Beatty is several tiers below Ewing. The same applies to Bellamy, who was the proverbial productive player who toiled on expansion or rebuilding teams.

Lanier was an eight-time all-star whose teams barely made the playoffs. Lanier had three seasons where he ranked in the top 10 in league MVP voting (ninth, 1972; third, 1975; fourth, 1977); in those seasons, Detroit went 26-56 (1971-72), 40-42 (1974-75) and 44-38 (1976-77). Keep in mind, Lanier had another hall of fame player (Dave Bing) on his team for his best years. Lanier is at least two tiers below Ewing.

The next tier below Ewing probably would be players such as Dave Cowens and Willis Reed. Cowens was 1973 MVP, had had three more seasons in the top three in MVP voting and was arguably the greatest defensive rebounder in NBA history. But Cowens was not the scorer or shot-blocker Ewing was and had a shorter peak before his first retirement at 31.

Reed was the first player to be named the NBA regular season MVP, Finals MVP and All-Star Game MVP in the same season (1969-70) and was the second best player on the Knicks teams that won the 1970 and 1973 titles. But Reed had only seven quality NBA seasons before leg injuries ended his career. At best, you could argue Reed and Cowens were on Ewing's level, but they didn't have the run Ewing did.

Then I would consider players such as Robert Parish (complementary player with all-star years), Bob McAdoo (elite scorer with a short prime), Bill Walton (very short prime but MVP peak) and Wes Unseld (surprise MVP but largely a role player) on that fifth tier, with Lanier sliding in behind that group.

[Najee12]

I was a Laker/NBA fan for much of Ewing's career, saw him play the Lakers twice at The Forum in his Knick years. He wasn't overrated by any stretch. He had his woes in clutch situations. That's the one thing that wasn't his forte. You put up a layup that falls out at the buzzer of a Gm 7 and that'll happen to you. However, he was one of the big 5 centers of his day. May have been the 5th of 5, but that still would make him a lock as a top NBA player.

To be fair to Patrick Ewing, having woes in clutch situations was also the fatal flaw of his contemporaries Karl Malone, David Robinson and Clyde Drexler. It pretty much was the difference between them and the trio of Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley and (starting in the 1992-93 season) Hakeem Olajuwon as being the elite seven players of the late 1980s to early to mid-1990s.

Still, it does not change the fact that Ewing had an eight-year stretch where he was in the top five in MVP voting six times and eighth in the seventh season. Ewing was such an elite player that his selection as one of the first 10 players on the original Dream Team in 1991 was considered one of the biggest no-brainer picks. I don't know anyone who even blinked when he or she heard Ewing was going to be on the team; if anything, it was an expectation he would be chosen.

I just find it funny that Walt Bellamy is in this convo. This thread has been Waltered. It's rare for Millenns and Gen Zs to Walter a thread themselves, it generally takes a Boomer to Walter a thread.

It's obviously someone who never saw Walt Bellamy play but wants to sound like the smartest person in the room by throwing out a rather obscure name from the 1960s and 1970s. Someone would have to be in at least his or her late 50s to have seen Bellamy play at the tail end of his career, and 60-plus to have seen Bellamy at his best.

[Mrakar]

just because ppl are averaging 28-30 ppg now when teams are scoring 120+ pts on the regular doesnt mean the guy is not as good cause he averaged 23 ppg during a time when teams played defense.

Its much harder to play defense when 4 out of 5 guys on the floor can light it up...
90's were great for basketball and i love to watch those games just bcs they are different, but boy there was some awful shooting teams doing great during that era.
Rockets won it 2 times bcs they realized back then they should surround Olajuwon with 4 shooters (unlike Knicks who had at least Oakley clogging the lane for Ewing, or Rodman for Robinson for Spurs and so on...)

If you watch Knicks, Rockets and Spurs playoff series during that era you will see how much better Robinson and especialy Olajuwon were. Don't get me wrong, being top 3 center after Olajuwon and Robinson is still a big thing but Ewing was not a superstar that will carry team on his own like Olajuwon did.
He was great defensive player, and solid offensive player.
And for rating? Depends on how u rate him. I think he is properly rated, borderline top 10 center all-time.

[Gooner]

He was underrated, he had everything a center could have, and he played in the greatest era, so it was hard to win a ring.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I don't understand some of these people on this board. On one hand, they are questioning how good were players such as Ewing and Karl Malone, but yet they overrate some guy averaging 8 points and 6 rebounds per game because of an outlier advanced metric. It doesn't sound like a lot of them understand how to evaluate players or have any perspective of how good a player is or isn't.

It sounds to me that you're not really understanding what other people are elaborating about, actually.
Also because "people in this board" means nothing, people have different opinions and mine doesn't need to be consistent with yours. Unless you can call out the OP himself on something he stated in the past.

[Najee12]

It sounds to me that you're not really understanding what other people are elaborating about, actually.
Also because "people in this board" means nothing, people have different opinions and mine doesn't need to be consistent with yours. Unless you can call out the OP himself on something he stated in the past.

I understand SENSIBLE opinions. I don't understand people who apparently don't know how to interpret information, such as acting like a center averaging 22 points per game over a 17-year career at 50 percent field goal shooting is "inefficient." Or someone looking up a player he or she never saw play, find some outlier advanced metric and try to reinvent the player as being much better than he was when he actually played.

I am calling out the original poster and some of these other people who make inane statements, based on poor interpretation of information and nonsensical logic.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

The usual issue with this questions is, how was he rated? And when?
Throughout his career, Ewing probably went to both sides of the "over/under" rated spectrum, and playing for the NYK magnified that.
I think historically he's rated properly, he was consistently during his prime in the top5-10 range in the league, top3-4 center in the golden era for his position. I just believe he was overrated as an offensive player, but this was happening for many centers during his era. I actually think that he could have done great today, his shooting range could have easily extended over the three point line and then you would have had a rare stretch rim protector who could also punish smallball teams.
Still in the top6-10 range, though.

[draftnightsuit]

Anybody that actually watched him play knew how overrated he was. He wasn’t a true #1 option or a leader and had decent but not great scoring skills. He was a glorified Dwight Howard of his era.

If he played anywhere outside of NY, he’d be considered about equal to Alonzo Mourning.

[draftnightsuit]

just because ppl are averaging 28-30 ppg now when teams are scoring 120+ pts on the regular doesnt mean the guy is not as good cause he averaged 23 ppg during a time when teams played defense.

Teams were scoring 120+ ppg in the late ‘80s when Ewing did all of his best scoring. The defense back then was a complete joke compared to what it is now.

Even the Bad Boys Pistons we’re giving up 110 ppg. LOL

[batmana]

Patrick Ewing was definitely not overrated. He was a legit superstar, he was legitimately in contention for best center alongside Hakeem and The Admiral until Shaq's 2nd or 3rd season. His offensive numbers don't jump out of the statsheet from today's perspective (neither do Duncan's for that matter) but he never took plays off, he was very active and involved on the defensive end, plus he played on a slow grind-it-out defensive minded team. He was actually a superb defender, the Knicks had possibly the best inside defense with Ewing and Oak + Mase off the bench.
For what it's worth, even with the numbers and efficiency he put in the 1993 Finals, the Knicks came within a minute from winning the NBA title but we really don't like to factor in luck when talking about titles. And obviously Jordan routinely took their soul in the playoffs, he was that great.
Like most of the above posters pointed out, Ewing is a top 10 center of all-time, below David Robinson but above many other all-time greats. I believe that when a player enters such elite company, you can't really claim he underachieved or was a disappointment. He was certainly a top 5 player in the league for an extended period, and possibly a top 5 or top 10 defender at the same time.

[Rich Michmond]

I don't get the Ewing-Bellamy connection. If anything, I'd say that Andre Drummond is a modern day Bellamy: talented big men with eye-popping stats that never really amounted to anything.

[bearadonisdna]

Considering how hard it is to win in NY and the Knicks were practically a 1 man team, i find him to be more of a generational talent and transcendent more than overrated.

His career defensive rating is 99.
The Nba defensive player of the year in 2019 was 103 which is 4 points worse.

[KGtabake]

No, he was unlucky. Robinson had the luck to be paired with Duncan in his twilight.
Ewing didn't have that luxury.

[Collymore]

If he was as good of a player as some make him out to have been then he would have won more during the years Starks was beastin'.

[bearadonisdna]

If he was as good of a player as some make him out to have been then he would have won more during the years Starks was beastin'.

And which years would this be? Starks didnt put up a season of 50% efg until he was 30.

[NYKnickerbocker]

If he was as good of a player as some make him out to have been then he would have won more during the years Starks was beastin'.

Lol what years was starks “ beastin “

We must have different standards for beastin

[Odinn21]

Maybe if Starks shot a somewhat more customary percentage in Game 7 of the 1994 NBA Finals instead of going 2 for 18 from the field, Ewing would have won an NBA title.

This is what people overlook.

These things are decided within smallest margins. People act like basketball is played 1v1 and there were no other contributing factors.
In 1984 Finals, Pat Riley choked a lead himself which led to Tragic Magic headlines.
In 1988 Finals, there was a phantom foul on Kareem and had Kareem not made those fts, Magic and Kareem would've never repeated. Also fans raided the court when the Pistons still had 2 seconds to shoot a three. The Pistons would be the first threepeat champions since Russell era Celtics, and before MJ's Bulls and Shaq's Lakers. Imagine having the Bad Boys next to those Bulls teams and that Lakers team. It would feel like a downgrade to those people.
In 1994 Finals, in game 7 the score was 75-78 when 2:40 left on the clock. Starks' 2/18 performance was very important, especially in such a tight game.
In 1995 Finals, we all know what Nick Anderson did. 1 for 4 would seal the deal, and we would have a much different series in our hands.
In 2002 WCF, this was the real finals and we also know what happened.
In 2005 Finals, if Horry didn't come up big in game 5, Duncan would be crucified for having that performance.
In 2013 Finals, Duncan missed a shot that would tie the game in the last minute of game 7. Had he made that, maybe the Spurs would have won 2013 title but wouldn't be as fueled as they were to come back in 2014.

The list goes on and on. Some people acts like rings on superstar fingers would appear out of nowhere, not relative to their teammates because they're the best.

[darbstar]

Who did Ewing have when he was in his prime?

Starks??

Jordan always had Pippen

Hakeem got Drexler

Shaq had penny, Kobe, d wade

David Robinson didn’t have anyone in his prime either

By the time Knicks got sprewell and Houston, Ewing was past his prime