Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ)

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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#681 » by Metallikid » Wed Apr 1, 2020 9:55 am

foreigngrammar wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
spikeslovechild wrote:
Once again there are standards for how meat is butchered in the united states. There are standards of how it is prepared in most other developed nations as well. Hell even China I assume has some basic standards as well at least for the products they wish to export which would be enforced by the CFDA.

Here are the FDA guidelines: https://www.fda.gov/media/110822/download

There are none at the wet market it's the wild-wild west and more to the point they are selling animals that are not commonly consumed so there is no tracking of what is happening out in the wild as it relates to diseases in the animal food chain. The other poster mentioned there are many potential pandemics that we aren't even aware of that is because for the most part the system works and the diseased animals are removed from the supply chain before it gets to this point . It's a large part of the reason why we still don't know to this day WHAT animal caused the pandemic I mean we now the bat was the likely source but we still don't know the intermediary think of how frighting that is? China needs to change it's medieval practices or be isolated from the world community. It really is that simple.


The standards allow for horrible living conditions and terrible treatment. Have you ever seen video from inside industrial chicken farms? Pig farms? They're living in awful, cramped, filthy conditions where diseases spread and mutate and then by interacting with workers or transporters, that's what causes animal-to-human transmission.

They need space to live and have a life. They need to be treated better than mere commodities, because they aren't. They're living creatures that feel pain and sadness, and they are killed in the millions for our nourishment. It's time to give them the respect they deserve and give them better lives - otherwise another pandemic will happen again, and next time it could be an American one.

I hope by the time we have gotten through this crisis that you will see some merit to my position and be a part of pushing for BETTER STANDARDS for yourself and your family and everyone else's. In the end the benefits would greatly outweigh the costs. From better quality meat with more nutrition, to eating less animal fats and red meat which will help reduce a myriad a diseases that are prevalent across the western world, to significantly aiding the fight against climate change as animal agriculture is the #1 cause of greenhouse gases, we have much to gain from lowering consumption and improving quality and standards significantly.


So true! Thank you!
The state of a society is shown on how we treat animals.

It says a lot. This time it comes from a crappy animal market (lousy excuses for having such exotic animals - upper class with their weird blabla for stamina and boners) but it could very well be a european swine farm or argentinian cattle farm.

JUST EAT LESS MEAT!
But people are so stubborn and rather fat and ill than wise.
It disgusts me. And I am no vegetarian... but to eat meat once or twice a week sure is enough. Trust me. You won't starve or die immediately. Maybe in 50 or 80 years from now ;)


Unfortunately not everyone would choose or be able to stick to eating meat only once or twice a week so I think it would be a lot more effective to DEMAND CHANGE and improve standards to the point that there is less meat available, but that what is available is of an extremely high quality.

Better standards for animal feed so there's no animal products in it, applying animal cruelty laws to livestock so they can't just be beaten and killed by workers, mandating that each animal needs a certain amount of space, some time outside that resembles a natural life if possible (sans predators), and quick, painless deaths.

WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#682 » by foreigngrammar » Wed Apr 1, 2020 10:16 am

Metallikid wrote:
foreigngrammar wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
The standards allow for horrible living conditions and terrible treatment. Have you ever seen video from inside industrial chicken farms? Pig farms? They're living in awful, cramped, filthy conditions where diseases spread and mutate and then by interacting with workers or transporters, that's what causes animal-to-human transmission.

They need space to live and have a life. They need to be treated better than mere commodities, because they aren't. They're living creatures that feel pain and sadness, and they are killed in the millions for our nourishment. It's time to give them the respect they deserve and give them better lives - otherwise another pandemic will happen again, and next time it could be an American one.

I hope by the time we have gotten through this crisis that you will see some merit to my position and be a part of pushing for BETTER STANDARDS for yourself and your family and everyone else's. In the end the benefits would greatly outweigh the costs. From better quality meat with more nutrition, to eating less animal fats and red meat which will help reduce a myriad a diseases that are prevalent across the western world, to significantly aiding the fight against climate change as animal agriculture is the #1 cause of greenhouse gases, we have much to gain from lowering consumption and improving quality and standards significantly.


So true! Thank you!
The state of a society is shown on how we treat animals.

It says a lot. This time it comes from a crappy animal market (lousy excuses for having such exotic animals - upper class with their weird blabla for stamina and boners) but it could very well be a european swine farm or argentinian cattle farm.

JUST EAT LESS MEAT!
But people are so stubborn and rather fat and ill than wise.
It disgusts me. And I am no vegetarian... but to eat meat once or twice a week sure is enough. Trust me. You won't starve or die immediately. Maybe in 50 or 80 years from now ;)


Unfortunately not everyone would choose or be able to stick to eating meat only once or twice a week so I think it would be a lot more effective to DEMAND CHANGE and improve standards to the point that there is less meat available, but that what is available is of an extremely high quality.

Better standards for animal feed so there's no animal products in it, applying animal cruelty laws to livestock so they can't just be beaten and killed by workers, mandating that each animal needs a certain amount of space, some time outside that resembles a natural life if possible (sans predators), and quick, painless deaths.

WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.


That's the point :thumbs up:
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#683 » by Ayt » Wed Apr 1, 2020 10:56 am

A Major Medical Staffing Company Just Slashed Benefits for Doctors and Nurses Fighting Coronavirus

Alteon Health, a staffing company backed by private-equity firm Frazier Healthcare Partners, will cut salaries, time off and retirement benefits for providers, citing lost revenue. Several hospital operators announced similar cuts.

“Despite the risks our providers are facing, and the great work being done by our teams, the economic challenges brought forth by COVID-19 have not spared our industry,” Steve Holtzclaw, the CEO of Alteon Health, one of the largest staffing companies, wrote in a memo to employees on Monday.

The memo announced that the company would be reducing hours for clinicians, cutting pay for administrative employees by 20%, and suspending 401(k) matches, bonuses and paid time off. Holtzclaw indicated that the measures were temporary but didn’t know how long they would last.

“It’s completely demoralizing,” said an Alteon clinician who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “At this time, of all times, we’re putting ourselves at risk but also putting our families at risk.”


https://www.propublica.org/article/coronavirus-er-doctors-nurses-benefits
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#684 » by Sgt Major » Wed Apr 1, 2020 10:57 am

We all know that the virus originated in China, nothing new about that and the scientists warned the world about the horseshoe bats 13 years ago: https://cmr.asm.org/content/cmr/20/4/660.full.pdf

Page 683: "The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb. The possibility of the reemergence of SARS and other novel viruses from animals or laboratories and therefore the need for preparedness should not be ignored".

The real question is why our countries didn't prepare themselves for this **** and whey they failed to even follow the instruction given by the Chinese officials long before the virus started spreading in the States and Europe.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#685 » by oldshoolballer » Wed Apr 1, 2020 11:00 am

LKN wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20


It's only a matter of time before the implants get approved.These are crazy times.

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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#686 » by spacemonkey » Wed Apr 1, 2020 11:00 am

foreigngrammar wrote:So true! Thank you!
The state of a society is shown on how we treat animals.

It says a lot. This time it comes from a crappy animal market (lousy excuses for having such exotic animals - upper class with their weird blabla for stamina and boners) but it could very well be a european swine farm or argentinian cattle farm.

JUST EAT LESS MEAT!
But people are so stubborn and rather fat and ill than wise.
It disgusts me. And I am no vegetarian... but to eat meat once or twice a week sure is enough. Trust me. You won't starve or die immediately. Maybe in 50 or 80 years from now ;)


Just to respond to the bolded, this kind of detail is lost on a lot of people. The exotic animals eaten in China are almost exclusively for TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) which is almost completely unproven, untested homeopathy stuff and scams, or rich people trying to show off for guests / feel haughty.

Like, if you look at the way some RealGM posters talk about China and the markets ("the Chinese and their filthy wet markets" etc.), it's clear that they're under the misguided idea (I'll assume the most charitable reason) that, like, all Chinese people, all 1.3 billion of them, are just boiling horseshoe bats alive for their dinner after keeping it in a cage with a live centipede and civet cat that they just bought from the local wetmarket after work, just another tuesday. :lol:

Once you take away all the idiot rich people trying to show off by eating exotic ****, the demand is almost completely driven by TCM. That is something that needs to be addressed in China in particular, in addition to the way animals are farmed. People get this stuff because they think it will cure an ailment or illness or strengthen a part of their body, etc.

The sad thing is, many people are actively *harmed* by TCM. People buying rhino horn boner pills not knowing it's got viagra in it (coz its a scam), but they've got a weak heart... someone not knowing if some medicinal powder has an allergen in it, etc. This **** is dangerous!

This is a government regulatory and education issue (basically, all TCM should be banned or at least heavily tested and regulated), not a China-is-inherently-disgusting issue, the latter of which is how you're so often seeing it framed in western media.

You fix this problem in China by fixing the absurd and dangerous legitimacy that TCM has in combination with regulating markets and animal farming. If you don't do the former, you'll never fix this.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#687 » by Neutral 123 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 11:05 am

Sgt Major wrote:We all know that the virus originated in China, nothing new about that and the scientists warned the world about the horseshoe bats 13 years ago: https://cmr.asm.org/content/cmr/20/4/660.full.pdf

Page 683: "The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb. The possibility of the reemergence of SARS and other novel viruses from animals or laboratories and therefore the need for preparedness should not be ignored".

The real question is why our countries didn't prepare themselves for this **** and whey they failed to even follow the instruction given by the Chinese officials long before the virus started spreading in the States and Europe.


Now THAT is the question. We can blame China all we want, but it was known in advance what was going to happen and nothing was done. In fact, a campaign of misinformation from the media started.

How is it even possible that a lay person with no connection to China could get enough information to know this would spread worldwide, yet governments around the world thought that this was low risk?

How can a disease that can spread asymptomatically, with an R0 estimated to be 2-4 when something like the flu is only 1.2, and can kill anyone at any age and physical condition be low risk?

I'd really like an explanation as to how that's possible? And the worst part is that the information the public is being given from governments and media is not honest or late. Now the estimated death toll will be a quarter million, but they are floating 2 million.

Let's not forget that the one in the highest office said that this thing was like the flu and Americans need to get back to work just a couple weeks ago.

Why anyone in their right mind would only respond to what they are being fed and not be as cautious as possible is beyond me.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#688 » by Neutral 123 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 11:14 am

spacemonkey wrote:
foreigngrammar wrote:So true! Thank you!
The state of a society is shown on how we treat animals.

It says a lot. This time it comes from a crappy animal market (lousy excuses for having such exotic animals - upper class with their weird blabla for stamina and boners) but it could very well be a european swine farm or argentinian cattle farm.

JUST EAT LESS MEAT!
But people are so stubborn and rather fat and ill than wise.
It disgusts me. And I am no vegetarian... but to eat meat once or twice a week sure is enough. Trust me. You won't starve or die immediately. Maybe in 50 or 80 years from now ;)


Just to respond to the bolded, this kind of detail is lost on a lot of people. The exotic animals eaten in China are almost exclusively for TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) which is almost completely unproven, untested homeopathy stuff and scams, or rich people trying to show off for guests / feel haughty.

Like, if you look at the way some RealGM posters talk about China and the markets ("the Chinese and their filthy wet markets" etc.), it's clear that they're under the misguided idea (I'll assume the most charitable reason) that, like, all Chinese people, all 1.3 billion of them, are just boiling horseshoe bats alive for their dinner after keeping it in a cage with a live centipede and civet cat that they just bought from the local wetmarket after work, just another tuesday. :lol:

Once you take away all the idiot rich people trying to show off by eating exotic ****, the demand is almost completely driven by TCM. That is something that needs to be addressed in China in particular, in addition to the way animals are farmed. People get this stuff because they think it will cure an ailment or illness or strengthen a part of their body, etc.

The sad thing is, many people are actively *harmed* by TCM. People buying rhino horn boner pills not knowing it's got viagra in it (coz its a scam), but they've got a weak heart... someone not knowing if some medicinal powder has an allergen in it, etc. This **** is dangerous!

This is a government regulatory issue (basically, all TCM should be banned or at least heavily tested and regulated), not a China-is-inherently-disgusting issue, the latter of which is how you're so often seeing it framed in western media.

You fix this problem in China by fixing the absurd and dangerous legitimacy that TCM has in combination with regulating markets and animal farming. If you don't do the former, you'll never fix this.

Let's not pick and choose. America has a huge exotic pet market. A huge demand for exotic animal hunting and let's not forget the biggest problem. Industrial animal farming of 'regular food' like chicken pigs and cows.

A lot of things are being floated. It started with bats, went to pangolins and now we are back on bats. But it's entirely possible that a disease harbored in bats mutated to livestock and continued to mutate from there. One thing that is for certain is that it is easier to pick on wet markets which are small time stuff compared to the big animal agriculture.

No one wants to hear that the solution is to stop eating meat or at least way less of it because you'll have to pay a lot more. It's weird.. Most don't even want to address that as a possibility.

The worst part is, this has been known for decades and it is also known there will be more pandemics. This may be a mild one.

A rapid spreader, that evolves with no reason to not kill it's host is precisely the types of diseases that modern 'farming' practices create.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#689 » by Sgt Major » Wed Apr 1, 2020 11:20 am

Neutral 123 wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:
foreigngrammar wrote:So true! Thank you!
The state of a society is shown on how we treat animals.

It says a lot. This time it comes from a crappy animal market (lousy excuses for having such exotic animals - upper class with their weird blabla for stamina and boners) but it could very well be a european swine farm or argentinian cattle farm.

JUST EAT LESS MEAT!
But people are so stubborn and rather fat and ill than wise.
It disgusts me. And I am no vegetarian... but to eat meat once or twice a week sure is enough. Trust me. You won't starve or die immediately. Maybe in 50 or 80 years from now ;)


Just to respond to the bolded, this kind of detail is lost on a lot of people. The exotic animals eaten in China are almost exclusively for TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) which is almost completely unproven, untested homeopathy stuff and scams, or rich people trying to show off for guests / feel haughty.

Like, if you look at the way some RealGM posters talk about China and the markets ("the Chinese and their filthy wet markets" etc.), it's clear that they're under the misguided idea (I'll assume the most charitable reason) that, like, all Chinese people, all 1.3 billion of them, are just boiling horseshoe bats alive for their dinner after keeping it in a cage with a live centipede and civet cat that they just bought from the local wetmarket after work, just another tuesday. :lol:

Once you take away all the idiot rich people trying to show off by eating exotic ****, the demand is almost completely driven by TCM. That is something that needs to be addressed in China in particular, in addition to the way animals are farmed. People get this stuff because they think it will cure an ailment or illness or strengthen a part of their body, etc.

The sad thing is, many people are actively *harmed* by TCM. People buying rhino horn boner pills not knowing it's got viagra in it (coz its a scam), but they've got a weak heart... someone not knowing if some medicinal powder has an allergen in it, etc. This **** is dangerous!

This is a government regulatory issue (basically, all TCM should be banned or at least heavily tested and regulated), not a China-is-inherently-disgusting issue, the latter of which is how you're so often seeing it framed in western media.

You fix this problem in China by fixing the absurd and dangerous legitimacy that TCM has in combination with regulating markets and animal farming. If you don't do the former, you'll never fix this.

Let's not pick and choose. America has a huge exotic pet market. A huge demand for exotic animal hunting and let's not forget the biggest problem. Industrial animal farming of 'regular food' like chicken pigs and cows.

A lot of things are being floated. It started with bats, went to pangolins and now we are back on bats. But it's entirely possible that a disease harbored in bats mutated to livestock and continued to mutate from there. One thing that is for certain is that it is easier to pick on wet markets which are small time stuff compared to the big animal agriculture.

No one wants to hear that the solution is to stop eating meat or at least way less of it because you'll have to pay a lot more. It's weird.. Most don't even want to address that as a possibility.

The worst part is, this has been known for decades and it is also known there will be more pandemics. This may be a mild one.

A rapid spreader, that evolves with no reason to not kill it's host is precisely the types of diseases that modern 'farming' practices create.



In this video, starting from 21:10 I think, Michael Osterholm talks about the dangers of the virus in the deer population in America that is being overlooked and dismissed:

https://youtu.be/E3URhJx0NSw?t=1270
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#690 » by spacemonkey » Wed Apr 1, 2020 11:41 am

Gotta admit, this battle between doctors / nurses and hospital administrators was not one I saw coming.

Read on Twitter
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#691 » by DowJones » Wed Apr 1, 2020 11:55 am

Sgt Major wrote:We all know that the virus originated in China, nothing new about that and the scientists warned the world about the horseshoe bats 13 years ago: https://cmr.asm.org/content/cmr/20/4/660.full.pdf

Page 683: "The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb. The possibility of the reemergence of SARS and other novel viruses from animals or laboratories and therefore the need for preparedness should not be ignored".

The real question is why our countries didn't prepare themselves for this **** and whey they failed to even follow the instruction given by the Chinese officials long before the virus started spreading in the States and Europe.


There is a long list of ways the Western Governments have failed but I think the bottom line is that they didn't think the issue would reach their countries as quickly and as devastatingly as it did. This is something that really hasn't been seen in our lifetimes. I really don't blame countries like Italy, Spain, the UK, the United States, etc for not immediately jumping into the actions that we all have taken the last month or so. Heck, in the U.S. we are limited in what restrictions we can put in place. The President floated the idea of completely locking down the state of NY the way China locked down Wuhan, but the Gov of NY declared that would be an act of war against his state.

I will also push back on your statements regarding the Chinese officials. The Chinese officials covered this up at the start. They have silenced those that tried to speak the truth. Not only did this start in China, but they delayed the release of information on the virus. Facts matter here. Don't spread misinformation.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#692 » by Sgt Major » Wed Apr 1, 2020 12:13 pm

DowJones wrote:
Sgt Major wrote:We all know that the virus originated in China, nothing new about that and the scientists warned the world about the horseshoe bats 13 years ago: https://cmr.asm.org/content/cmr/20/4/660.full.pdf

Page 683: "The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb. The possibility of the reemergence of SARS and other novel viruses from animals or laboratories and therefore the need for preparedness should not be ignored".

The real question is why our countries didn't prepare themselves for this **** and whey they failed to even follow the instruction given by the Chinese officials long before the virus started spreading in the States and Europe.


There is a long list of ways the Western Governments have failed but I think the bottom line is that they didn't think the issue would reach their countries as quickly and as devastatingly as it did. This is something that really hasn't been seen in our lifetimes. I really don't blame countries like Italy, Spain, the UK, the United States, etc for not immediately jumping into the actions that we all have taken the last month or so. Heck, in the U.S. we are limited in what restrictions we can put in place. The President floated the idea of completely locking down the state of NY the way China locked down Wuhan, but the Gov of NY declared that would be an act of war against his state.

I will also push back on your statements regarding the Chinese officials. The Chinese officials covered this up at the start. They have silenced those that tried to speak the truth. Not only did this start in China, but they delayed the release of information on the virus. Facts matter here. Don't spread misinformation.


They has put a complete lockdown on a city of 11 million on January 23rd. If that wasn't enough for other governments, I don't know what would be.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#693 » by AdagioPace » Wed Apr 1, 2020 12:16 pm

spacemonkey wrote:Gotta admit, this battle between doctors / nurses and hospital administrators was not one I saw coming.

Read on Twitter



This must be an american-only thing I believe. The growing number of positive health operators became a delicate topic at least in Europe in the last few weeks. They're the most precious human resources at the moment. Unthinkable to receive such a treatment from your boss (whose job is also protecting your employees)
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#694 » by Bill Bradley » Wed Apr 1, 2020 12:23 pm

Not sure when people are going to understand that eating and other commodification of nonhuman animals is at the heart of so many of our problems, from climate change to heart disease to ocean destruction to so many zoonotic diseases and pandemics (COVID19, SARS, Swine Flu, Ebola, Avian Bird Flu, Mad Cow Disease etc) not to mention the trillions of animals who are needlessly killed each year for palate pleasure. Some people here claiming we need to increase welfare standards or eat less meat are well meaning but it is not sufficient and misses the crux of the matter that there is no right way to do the wrong thing. When are people going to learn?
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#695 » by DowJones » Wed Apr 1, 2020 12:35 pm

Sgt Major wrote:
DowJones wrote:
Sgt Major wrote:We all know that the virus originated in China, nothing new about that and the scientists warned the world about the horseshoe bats 13 years ago: https://cmr.asm.org/content/cmr/20/4/660.full.pdf

Page 683: "The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb. The possibility of the reemergence of SARS and other novel viruses from animals or laboratories and therefore the need for preparedness should not be ignored".

The real question is why our countries didn't prepare themselves for this **** and whey they failed to even follow the instruction given by the Chinese officials long before the virus started spreading in the States and Europe.


There is a long list of ways the Western Governments have failed but I think the bottom line is that they didn't think the issue would reach their countries as quickly and as devastatingly as it did. This is something that really hasn't been seen in our lifetimes. I really don't blame countries like Italy, Spain, the UK, the United States, etc for not immediately jumping into the actions that we all have taken the last month or so. Heck, in the U.S. we are limited in what restrictions we can put in place. The President floated the idea of completely locking down the state of NY the way China locked down Wuhan, but the Gov of NY declared that would be an act of war against his state.

I will also push back on your statements regarding the Chinese officials. The Chinese officials covered this up at the start. They have silenced those that tried to speak the truth. Not only did this start in China, but they delayed the release of information on the virus. Facts matter here. Don't spread misinformation.


They has put a complete lockdown on a city of 11 million on January 23rd. If that wasn't enough for other governments, I don't know what would be.


Which was almost a month after they started to see a rash of cases of Covid19 and 2 days after the first case reached the United States. I also can't imagine what the reaction in this country would have been, at that time, had the President locked down the country. Remember we were right in the middle of impeachment. NOBODY was calling for Italy, Spain, UK, Germany, United States, etc to be locked down then. It is incredibly easy to say that now.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#696 » by DowJones » Wed Apr 1, 2020 12:42 pm

AdagioPace wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:Gotta admit, this battle between doctors / nurses and hospital administrators was not one I saw coming.

Read on Twitter



This must be an american-only thing I believe. The growing number of positive health operators became a delicate topic at least in Europe in the last few weeks. They're the most precious human resources at the moment. Unthinkable to receive such a treatment from your boss (whose job is also protecting your employees)


Hold on, there are 6,200 hospitals, 2.86 million registered nurses and 1.1 million doctors of medicine in the United States, so the NY Times finding some that claim to have had a bad experience isn't a surprise. People in America are showering health workers with praise. Our media giving the few that are aggrieved a voice is a good thing, but it certainly doesn't represent the typical experience.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#697 » by Optimus_Steel » Wed Apr 1, 2020 12:59 pm

Ayt wrote:A Major Medical Staffing Company Just Slashed Benefits for Doctors and Nurses Fighting Coronavirus

Alteon Health, a staffing company backed by private-equity firm Frazier Healthcare Partners, will cut salaries, time off and retirement benefits for providers, citing lost revenue. Several hospital operators announced similar cuts.

“Despite the risks our providers are facing, and the great work being done by our teams, the economic challenges brought forth by COVID-19 have not spared our industry,” Steve Holtzclaw, the CEO of Alteon Health, one of the largest staffing companies, wrote in a memo to employees on Monday.

The memo announced that the company would be reducing hours for clinicians, cutting pay for administrative employees by 20%, and suspending 401(k) matches, bonuses and paid time off. Holtzclaw indicated that the measures were temporary but didn’t know how long they would last.

“It’s completely demoralizing,” said an Alteon clinician who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “At this time, of all times, we’re putting ourselves at risk but also putting our families at risk.”


https://www.propublica.org/article/coronavirus-er-doctors-nurses-benefits



This is infuriating. Yet one more reason along the numerous reasons the US needs single payer.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#698 » by Movics » Wed Apr 1, 2020 1:14 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

Dailymail is a tabloid like New York Post. Those sites go for clicks, not factual reporting. Even this article mentions that the study has not been peer reviewed or published in any scientific journals therefore you can question their validity. I would avoid those tabloids if I were looking for legitimate news.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#699 » by DowJones » Wed Apr 1, 2020 1:18 pm

foreigngrammar wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:[tweet]1245212876643549184

Read on Twitter


Please read the first post again and stop watching FOX NEWS for christ sake :D


I watched the clip itself and it is actually pretty decent. I agree with you on Fox News, but I will expand it to ALL cable news in the United States. There are 3 major cable news outlets in this country and they are all incredibly biased. About the only person I like on any of then is Neil Cavuto. I have been working from home over the last 3 weeks and his show is usually on when I go to fix myself some lunch and he doesn't try to blame one side or the other for all of America's problems.
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Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread VI (Don't Read Post 1 & FAQ) 

Post#700 » by Neutral 123 » Wed Apr 1, 2020 1:25 pm

Sgt Major wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
spacemonkey wrote:
Just to respond to the bolded, this kind of detail is lost on a lot of people. The exotic animals eaten in China are almost exclusively for TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) which is almost completely unproven, untested homeopathy stuff and scams, or rich people trying to show off for guests / feel haughty.

Like, if you look at the way some RealGM posters talk about China and the markets ("the Chinese and their filthy wet markets" etc.), it's clear that they're under the misguided idea (I'll assume the most charitable reason) that, like, all Chinese people, all 1.3 billion of them, are just boiling horseshoe bats alive for their dinner after keeping it in a cage with a live centipede and civet cat that they just bought from the local wetmarket after work, just another tuesday. :lol:

Once you take away all the idiot rich people trying to show off by eating exotic ****, the demand is almost completely driven by TCM. That is something that needs to be addressed in China in particular, in addition to the way animals are farmed. People get this stuff because they think it will cure an ailment or illness or strengthen a part of their body, etc.

The sad thing is, many people are actively *harmed* by TCM. People buying rhino horn boner pills not knowing it's got viagra in it (coz its a scam), but they've got a weak heart... someone not knowing if some medicinal powder has an allergen in it, etc. This **** is dangerous!

This is a government regulatory issue (basically, all TCM should be banned or at least heavily tested and regulated), not a China-is-inherently-disgusting issue, the latter of which is how you're so often seeing it framed in western media.

You fix this problem in China by fixing the absurd and dangerous legitimacy that TCM has in combination with regulating markets and animal farming. If you don't do the former, you'll never fix this.

Let's not pick and choose. America has a huge exotic pet market. A huge demand for exotic animal hunting and let's not forget the biggest problem. Industrial animal farming of 'regular food' like chicken pigs and cows.

A lot of things are being floated. It started with bats, went to pangolins and now we are back on bats. But it's entirely possible that a disease harbored in bats mutated to livestock and continued to mutate from there. One thing that is for certain is that it is easier to pick on wet markets which are small time stuff compared to the big animal agriculture.

No one wants to hear that the solution is to stop eating meat or at least way less of it because you'll have to pay a lot more. It's weird.. Most don't even want to address that as a possibility.

The worst part is, this has been known for decades and it is also known there will be more pandemics. This may be a mild one.

A rapid spreader, that evolves with no reason to not kill it's host is precisely the types of diseases that modern 'farming' practices create.



In this video, starting from 21:10 I think, Michael Osterholm talks about the dangers of the virus in the deer population in America that is being overlooked and dismissed:

https://youtu.be/E3URhJx0NSw?t=1270


I didn't even think about that. To add, there have been confirmed cases of human to pet transfer. First in dogs and now in cats. This begs the question. When will this transfer back from pets to humans? From all wildlife back to humans?

There is a lot to suggest that this is here to stay. And that my worst realization is happening. Those who can't survive this will simply die.

The only things that can mitigate this is getting eating a healthy diet, stopping bad habits like drinking and smoking, and wearing a mask to limit the viral load if exposed to the virus.
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