TPE Trade Target Watch

OptionZero · Post #61 » by **OptionZero** » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:49 pm

i wouldn't offer the #5 overall - remember, Covington is burning part of his contract now with HOU. The Rox themselves didn't ofer anything as good as the #5 to get him

I'd gladly give up next year's first (our own) and whatever seconds. Where else is Fertita getting $13M in pure cap relief? No one else has a big enough TPE

OptionZero · Post #62 » by **OptionZero** » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:40 am

More quarantine thoughts:

The draft isn't getting us a contributor this year, as our timeline is now.
The trick is to flip it for stuff that is useful now but still is young enough to improve and help the team into the future.
Dudes that fit that bill generally don't get traded unless the team is in some sort of roster and/or money crunch, so we gotta identify an asset thats rising in value that his team considers a luxury

What do we think about Lonzo Ball?
He's big enough 6'6 that he can defend a variety of perimeter players, the stats actually have shown him to be an effective defender going back to the Laker days. We know he can pass and cut and push the ball in transition, all of this stuff is Kerr porn.

This year, he raised his 3P% to 38% on 6.5! attempts, which is exceptional. He's 22, one year left at $11M but then he's RFA so he's got pretty good team control.
Downside: health and you need to believe that the 3P% sustains itself. Also, his FG% overall sucked and that FT% is embarassing. Far from a perfect player, obviously.

As a 3rd guard, he would fit very well leading bench units. He pushes the pace, but if it gets into the half court and his J holds up he'd space the floor for Paschall. He's big enough to play next to Steph at times. Think of him as Livingston with 3P

The Pelicans have several other contracts that would also fit into the $17M TPE with Ball - Melli, Hart, Nickiel-Walker, Hayes. This is important because we want to add as much salary as possible for future trades (we need liquid contracts to go out if we want more deals)

Why would NOP want to deal him?
Look at this chart
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-orleans-pelicans/yearly/cap/

They're at $83M committed going into 20-21.
- Ingram is getting the tier 1 max ($26M+ depending on the cap), which will put them at around $108
- Favors is also a FA, and he's pretty crucial to their defense. He made $17M last year; even at a substantial discount he's gonna be mid-level or more
- Jrue is making $26M as your starting PG
- Reddick is making $13M

Are they going to commit to an extension for Ball? Do they wanna play the RFA game with him?

This is a historically cheap franchise; even with the new owner, their market is going to dictate they stay under the tax. Oh hey! The NBA's BRI is **** so the tax line isn't going up anytime soon, it may even go down!

They might prefer a top 5 pick, team control, ditch $17M or whatever in salary. The pick will eat up alot of that, yes, but going forward that will be cheaper than Ball extension.

Warriors Analyst · Post #63 » by **Warriors Analyst** » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:45 am

OptionZero wrote:More quarantine thoughts:

The draft isn't getting us a contributor this year, as our timeline is now.
The trick is to flip it for stuff that is useful now but still is young enough to improve and help the team into the future.
Dudes that fit that bill generally don't get traded unless the team is in some sort of roster and/or money crunch, so we gotta identify an asset thats rising in value that his team considers a luxury

What do we think about Lonzo Ball?
He's big enough 6'6 that he can defend a variety of perimeter players, the stats actually have shown him to be an effective defender going back to the Laker days. We know he can pass and cut and push the ball in transition, all of this stuff is Kerr porn.

This year, he raised his 3P% to 38% on 6.5! attempts, which is exceptional. He's 22, one year left at $11M but then he's RFA so he's got pretty good team control.
Downside: health and you need to believe that the 3P% sustains itself. Also, his FG% overall sucked and that FT% is embarassing. Far from a perfect player, obviously.

As a 3rd guard, he would fit very well leading bench units. He pushes the pace, but if it gets into the half court and his J holds up he'd space the floor for Paschall. He's big enough to play next to Steph at times. Think of him as Livingston with 3P

The Pelicans have several other contracts that would also fit into the $17M TPE with Ball - Melli, Hart, Nickiel-Walker, Hayes. This is important because we want to add as much salary as possible for future trades (we need liquid contracts to go out if we want more deals)

Why would NOP want to deal him?
Look at this chart
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-orleans-pelicans/yearly/cap/

They're at $83M committed going into 20-21.
- Ingram is getting the tier 1 max ($26M+ depending on the cap), which will put them at around $108
- Favors is also a FA, and he's pretty crucial to their defense. He made $17M last year; even at a substantial discount he's gonna be mid-level or more
- Jrue is making $26M as your starting PG
- Reddick is making $13M

Are they going to commit to an extension for Ball? Do they wanna play the RFA game with him?

This is a historically cheap franchise; even with the new owner, their market is going to dictate they stay under the tax. Oh hey! The NBA's BRI is **** so the tax line isn't going up anytime soon, it may even go down!

They might prefer a top 5 pick, team control, ditch $17M or whatever in salary. The pick will eat up alot of that, yes, but going forward that will be cheaper than Ball extension.

I think New Orleans probably keeps Ball and re-signs Favors for the MLE / go for a floor spacing 5 like Baynes or Myers Leonard to play with Zion. Reddick seems like the more gettable target. I like Reddick but at $13 million a year I do wonder how many minutes he can play in the deeper playoff rounds; he’d probably get hunted on defense at his older age. But then I do imagine how nuts it would be to have Draymond distributing to Steph/Reddick/Klay...

OptionZero · Post #64 » by **OptionZero** » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:54 am

Reddick would be useful but there's a ceiling to him. You put him with Steph and there's too many holes defensively late in the playoffs; he's also getting up there in age

The whole point of going after Ball is to get a 22 y/o that is young enough to be part of the next GSW core and sustain success

The current suspended season is really going to throw some stuff into whack. No one really knows what the cap next year will look like, so teams will have a hard time negotiating with even their own players. How the hell do you engage in extension talks with Ball when you don't know if the cap is gonna be higher, lower, the same, etc.

ChuckDurn · Post #65 » by **ChuckDurn** » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:32 pm

OptionZero wrote:More quarantine thoughts:

The draft isn't getting us a contributor this year, as our timeline is now.
The trick is to flip it for stuff that is useful now but still is young enough to improve and help the team into the future.
Dudes that fit that bill generally don't get traded unless the team is in some sort of roster and/or money crunch, so we gotta identify an asset thats rising in value that his team considers a luxury

What do we think about Lonzo Ball?
He's big enough 6'6 that he can defend a variety of perimeter players, the stats actually have shown him to be an effective defender going back to the Laker days. We know he can pass and cut and push the ball in transition, all of this stuff is Kerr porn.

This year, he raised his 3P% to 38% on 6.5! attempts, which is exceptional. He's 22, one year left at $11M but then he's RFA so he's got pretty good team control.
Downside: health and you need to believe that the 3P% sustains itself. Also, his FG% overall sucked and that FT% is embarassing. Far from a perfect player, obviously.

As a 3rd guard, he would fit very well leading bench units. He pushes the pace, but if it gets into the half court and his J holds up he'd space the floor for Paschall. He's big enough to play next to Steph at times. Think of him as Livingston with 3P

The Pelicans have several other contracts that would also fit into the $17M TPE with Ball - Melli, Hart, Nickiel-Walker, Hayes. This is important because we want to add as much salary as possible for future trades (we need liquid contracts to go out if we want more deals)

Why would NOP want to deal him?
Look at this chart
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-orleans-pelicans/yearly/cap/

They're at $83M committed going into 20-21.
- Ingram is getting the tier 1 max ($26M+ depending on the cap), which will put them at around $108
- Favors is also a FA, and he's pretty crucial to their defense. He made $17M last year; even at a substantial discount he's gonna be mid-level or more
- Jrue is making $26M as your starting PG
- Reddick is making $13M

Are they going to commit to an extension for Ball? Do they wanna play the RFA game with him?

This is a historically cheap franchise; even with the new owner, their market is going to dictate they stay under the tax. Oh hey! The NBA's BRI is **** so the tax line isn't going up anytime soon, it may even go down!

They might prefer a top 5 pick, team control, ditch $17M or whatever in salary. The pick will eat up alot of that, yes, but going forward that will be cheaper than Ball extension.

I like the idea, and it certainly wouldn't hurt to ask. But I doubt New Orleans would be interested in it. I think they would prefer to keep Ball with Zion, and ultimately look to trade Holiday to gain the salary room they'll need.

But yeah...... doesn't hurt to try. Who knows what could happen with that phone call......

OptionZero · Post #66 » by **OptionZero** » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:05 am

If we lower our expectations considerably to "fill out the roster with NBA guys" . . . could probably get Taj Gibson and Reggie Bullock for . . . i dunno, a couple crappy 2nds?

Neither is great but Gibson is a more physical dude than Looney/Chriss that we may need against some of the bigger centers, and Bullock is another two way wing of middling quality.

Simply not having to play the likes of Zach Norvell, Chasson Randle, Alen Smailagic, WCS, Juan Tuscano Anderson, or the rookie versions of Poole/Paschall and replacing them with average-ish NBA vets is probably worth 5 wins

I would consider that sort of package the FLOOR for our TPE. Doesn't cost us anything, fills a couple spots for the regular season.

I also would be pretty happy with Patty Mills for a couple seconds, as the dude can shoot and run a backup offense, plus he's a proven playoff rotation piece.

If you wannna get wierd, how bout calling Chicago?
Tomas Satoranski + Wendell Carter, Jr fits into the TPE and is also a two-spot move. WCJ is still on his rookie deal for another couple years. Neither is a superstar, both have some upside imo. Recall, Wendall Carter Jr was the #7 pick in a better regarded draft

Thats not worth the #1 pick. Is it worth, say . .. the 5 pick?

Having watched Kelly Oubre Jr while quarantined, i'm also sold. #1 is too high considering he's only got one year left. Our own pick in 2021 is probably too low. Pick swap (could be 10 spots + 2021 MIN 2nd?)

cdubbz · Post #67 » by **cdubbz** » Wed Apr 1, 2020 11:10 pm

How about Elfrid Payton & Taj Gibson from Knicks?

Elfrid Payton $8mil
Taj Gibson $9mil

Knicks have an abundant of Point Guards on their roster and if they like Lamelo as much as I think they do — if we have a higher pick than Knicks we draft Lamelo and swap picks with them. We take a point guard off their hands and secure Lamelo for them.

Payton & Gibson give us veteran rotation players. Curry has a solid backup PG again who is thriving at the moment. Gibson is our old vet to give us depth with Green, Looney, & Paschall. Getting Wiseman, Onyeka or Toppin would really solidify our bench.

My biggest concern for next season is veteran depth. We have too many young guys on the roster who I’m not comfortable with in the playoffs just yet other than Paschall. Poole, Bowman, Smiley, + our rookie.

Edit: Forgot Payton’s not a 3point shooter. A reason to take Schroeder over him I guess.

azwfan · Post #68 » by **azwfan** » Thu Apr 2, 2020 2:52 am

cdubbz wrote:How about Elfrid Payton & Taj Gibson from Knicks?

Elfrid Payton $8mil
Taj Gibson $9mil

Knicks have an abundant of Point Guards on their roster and if they like Lamelo as much as I think they do — if we have a higher pick than Knicks we draft Lamelo and swap picks with them. We take a point guard off their hands and secure Lamelo for them.

Payton & Gibson give us veteran rotation players. Curry has a solid backup PG again who is thriving at the moment. Gibson is our old vet to give us depth with Green, Looney, & Paschall. Getting Wiseman, Onyeka or Toppin would really solidify our bench.

My biggest concern for next season is veteran depth. We have too many young guys on the roster who I’m not comfortable with in the playoffs just yet other than Paschall. Poole, Bowman, Smiley, + our rookie.

Edit: Forgot Payton’s not a 3point shooter. A reason to take Schroeder over him I guess.

Not interested in either unless NYK is giving us some 1st rd draft pick compensation to take them... like that Dallas 2023 1st (top 10 protected)

cdubbz · Post #69 » by **cdubbz** » Thu Apr 2, 2020 3:29 am

azwfan wrote:
cdubbz wrote:How about Elfrid Payton & Taj Gibson from Knicks?

Elfrid Payton $8mil
Taj Gibson $9mil

Knicks have an abundant of Point Guards on their roster and if they like Lamelo as much as I think they do — if we have a higher pick than Knicks we draft Lamelo and swap picks with them. We take a point guard off their hands and secure Lamelo for them.

Payton & Gibson give us veteran rotation players. Curry has a solid backup PG again who is thriving at the moment. Gibson is our old vet to give us depth with Green, Looney, & Paschall. Getting Wiseman, Onyeka or Toppin would really solidify our bench.

My biggest concern for next season is veteran depth. We have too many young guys on the roster who I’m not comfortable with in the playoffs just yet other than Paschall. Poole, Bowman, Smiley, + our rookie.

Edit: Forgot Payton’s not a 3point shooter. A reason to take Schroeder over him I guess.

Not interested in either unless NYK is giving us some 1st rd draft pick compensation to take them... like that Dallas 2023 1st (top 10 protected)

Our title window may be over by 2023. A draft pick would be nice for sure but the next two seasons are huge for winning a ring. Whether it’s these guys or another — we need players for now.

azwfan · Post #70 » by **azwfan** » Thu Apr 2, 2020 3:32 am

cdubbz wrote:
azwfan wrote:
cdubbz wrote:How about Elfrid Payton & Taj Gibson from Knicks?

Elfrid Payton $8mil
Taj Gibson $9mil

Knicks have an abundant of Point Guards on their roster and if they like Lamelo as much as I think they do — if we have a higher pick than Knicks we draft Lamelo and swap picks with them. We take a point guard off their hands and secure Lamelo for them.

Payton & Gibson give us veteran rotation players. Curry has a solid backup PG again who is thriving at the moment. Gibson is our old vet to give us depth with Green, Looney, & Paschall. Getting Wiseman, Onyeka or Toppin would really solidify our bench.

My biggest concern for next season is veteran depth. We have too many young guys on the roster who I’m not comfortable with in the playoffs just yet other than Paschall. Poole, Bowman, Smiley, + our rookie.

Edit: Forgot Payton’s not a 3point shooter. A reason to take Schroeder over him I guess.

Not interested in either unless NYK is giving us some 1st rd draft pick compensation to take them... like that Dallas 2023 1st (top 10 protected)

Our title window may be over by 2023. A draft pick would be nice for sure but the next two seasons are huge for winning a ring. Whether it’s these guys or another — we need players for now.

Yeah, the draft pick is for the purpose of making a more compelling offer for a "star" if/when they become available... or even a trade deadline deal to get a nice vet off of a team that isn't in the playoff hunt (kind of like a Marcus Morris trade this season). That's why I want a draft pick off in the future and one not with its original team (may be more willing to trade it).

kingcong95 · Post #71 » by **kingcong95** » Thu Apr 2, 2020 5:31 am

azwfan wrote:
cdubbz wrote:How about Elfrid Payton & Taj Gibson from Knicks?

Elfrid Payton $8mil
Taj Gibson $9mil

Knicks have an abundant of Point Guards on their roster and if they like Lamelo as much as I think they do — if we have a higher pick than Knicks we draft Lamelo and swap picks with them. We take a point guard off their hands and secure Lamelo for them.

Payton & Gibson give us veteran rotation players. Curry has a solid backup PG again who is thriving at the moment. Gibson is our old vet to give us depth with Green, Looney, & Paschall. Getting Wiseman, Onyeka or Toppin would really solidify our bench.

My biggest concern for next season is veteran depth. We have too many young guys on the roster who I’m not comfortable with in the playoffs just yet other than Paschall. Poole, Bowman, Smiley, + our rookie.

Edit: Forgot Payton’s not a 3point shooter. A reason to take Schroeder over him I guess.

Not interested in either unless NYK is giving us some 1st rd draft pick compensation to take them... like that Dallas 2023 1st (top 10 protected)

The Knicks can cut those two guys for 1M each. They would not give away a first just to dump them.

Scoots1994 · Post #72 » by **Scoots1994** » Thu Apr 2, 2020 2:52 pm

cdubbz wrote:Our title window may be over by 2023. A draft pick would be nice for sure but the next two seasons are huge for winning a ring. Whether it’s these guys or another — we need players for now.

Myers said his instructions from Lacob were not to put winning now over continuing to win long term.

I think they use their high first round picks this year and next year and try to fill the roster out with vets and ring chasers for now.

Kerr, the coaching staff, and Myers have all said it's critical they develop the young guys to the point they can contribute at a high level.

azwfan · Post #73 » by **azwfan** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 4:41 am

kingcong95 wrote:
azwfan wrote:
cdubbz wrote:How about Elfrid Payton & Taj Gibson from Knicks?

Elfrid Payton $8mil
Taj Gibson $9mil

Knicks have an abundant of Point Guards on their roster and if they like Lamelo as much as I think they do — if we have a higher pick than Knicks we draft Lamelo and swap picks with them. We take a point guard off their hands and secure Lamelo for them.

Payton & Gibson give us veteran rotation players. Curry has a solid backup PG again who is thriving at the moment. Gibson is our old vet to give us depth with Green, Looney, & Paschall. Getting Wiseman, Onyeka or Toppin would really solidify our bench.

My biggest concern for next season is veteran depth. We have too many young guys on the roster who I’m not comfortable with in the playoffs just yet other than Paschall. Poole, Bowman, Smiley, + our rookie.

Edit: Forgot Payton’s not a 3point shooter. A reason to take Schroeder over him I guess.

Not interested in either unless NYK is giving us some 1st rd draft pick compensation to take them... like that Dallas 2023 1st (top 10 protected)

The Knicks can cut those two guys for 1M each. They would not give away a first just to dump them.

Good point. No deal to be had for them then.

Mylie10 · Post #74 » by **Mylie10** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 5:02 am

Never been a fan of Payton.

Always liked Taj Gibson. For a vet min he can be our David West.

cdubbz · Post #75 » by **cdubbz** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 7:06 am

OptionZero wrote:Houston having to trade us Covington because Fertitta is too cheap to pay the tax is my FAVORITE OUTCOME

I am rooting 100% for this

i would laugh for weeks if this happened

I’d ask for Austin Rivers while we’re at it lol.

Curry/Rivers/Bowman
Klay/Poole
Wiggins/RoCo
Draymond/Paschall/Smiley
Wiseman/Looney/Chriss

OptionZero · Post #76 » by **OptionZero** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 9:20 pm

why would we take Wiseman and how the hell do you expect him to be worth minutes on a title team?

folks are insane

cdubbz · Post #77 » by **cdubbz** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 9:50 pm

OptionZero wrote:why would we take Wiseman and how the hell do you expect him to be worth minutes on a title team?

folks are insane

I’m open to trading the pick and I’m also open to drafting the prospect with potential/high trade value. If we plan on packaging the pick down the road we need the best asset.

I don’t expect any of the rookies to make a majors impact at all — but Edwards, Wiseman, Toppin, or whoever will absolutely get some PT.

GQ Hot Dog · Post #78 » by **GQ Hot Dog** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 9:53 pm

OptionZero wrote:why would we take Wiseman and how the hell do you expect him to be worth minutes on a title team?

folks are insane

Because if Damian Jones was worth starting for us and getting 17mpg two seasons ago than Wiseman is too. Jones was a horrible basketball player but just his size and length allowed him to be a useful screen-setter and rim-runner and Wiseman could without a doubt provide that as well from day one.

Flash Falcon X · Post #79 » by **Flash Falcon X** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 10:11 pm

thinkingwarriors wrote:
OptionZero wrote:why would we take Wiseman and how the hell do you expect him to be worth minutes on a title team?

folks are insane

Because if Damian Jones was worth starting for us and getting 17mpg two seasons ago than Wiseman is too. Jones was a horrible basketball player but just his size and length allowed him to be a useful screen-setter and rim-runner and Wiseman could without a doubt provide that as well from day one.

We started Jordan Bell at center for a bit, too, before he got injured and eventually couldn't replicate his production.

Warriors are pretty open minded with who they play at center since they have Steph/Klay/Draymond as the vets who help balance everything out.

OptionZero · Post #80 » by **OptionZero** » Fri Apr 3, 2020 11:39 pm

Wiseman has played 3 college games and he's 18.

Bell was 23 his rookie year and played 3 years at Oregon

It is absolutely delirious think he worth the #1 pick and play any meaningful minutes on a title contending team

Listen to Sam Vincenie on Lightyears or Back to Back pod. NOBODY trusts this kid. His development curve is steep.

A team like the Hornets who have nothing going for them is fine taking a swing at him. They don't have championship aspirations, they're not that smart, and they have nothing going for them.

GSW needs to balance upside with asset value and current ability. Thats basically impossible and this draft is garbage, so . . . we should be looking to trade it.

I don't want to turn this into the draft thread, there's already one. Sufficient to say if you have Wiseman atop the board for GSW, i think you're insane

Anyways

gimme Dinwiddie and Jarrett Allen into the TPE for the #1 pick