GRODBoard 2020 (second to last update!)

[getrichordie]

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[MotownMadness]

Let me know where you disagree with my rankings and why...

1. Anthony Edwards
2. Cole Anthony
3. Isaac Okoro
4. Tyrese Maxey
5. James Wiseman
6. Killian Hayes
7. LaMelo Ball
8. Deni Avdija
9. Isaiah Stewart
10. Onyeka Okungwu
11. Tyrese Haliburton
12. Aleksej Pokusevski
13. R.J. Hampton
14. Jaden McDaniels

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Would swap Haliburton and Maxey around and would probably take Okungwu before Stewart.

In a more loaded draft i wouldnt take Okoro that high cause he might be more role player/glue guy then franchise player material but i do like everything he brings.

Im also leaning towards Edwards and Cole Anthony as my top 2. They look like the best prospects who could be high volume 3 level scorers. They could bust but they have the alpha mentality of being the man anyways which could transfer over to big results at the next level.

[getrichordie]

Let me know where you disagree with my rankings and why...

1. Anthony Edwards
2. Cole Anthony
3. Isaac Okoro
4. Tyrese Maxey
5. James Wiseman
6. Killian Hayes
7. LaMelo Ball
8. Deni Avdija
9. Isaiah Stewart
10. Onyeka Okungwu
11. Tyrese Haliburton
12. Aleksej Pokusevski
13. R.J. Hampton
14. Jaden McDaniels

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Would swap Haliburton and Maxey around and would probably take Okungwu before Stewart.

In a more loaded draft i wouldnt take Okoro that high cause he might be more role player/glue guy then franchise player material but i do like everything he brings.

Im also leaning towards Edwards and Cole Anthony as my top 2. They look like the best prospects who could be high volume 3 level scorers. They could bust but they have the alpha mentality of being the man anyways which could transfer over to big results at the next level.

I just like Maxey's potential better than Haliburton's. Maxey's shot versatility is a little better, though he definitely needs to improve his shooting, but his form is much better than Haliburton's. Haliburton likely gets relegated to mostly a C&S guy. He's not really going to be able to create his own offense and he's a bit small for 6'5 and needs to add weight. Haliburton's form might get him in trouble in the NBA because his shooting motion starts so low. I think Maxey projects as the better defender in the NBA, but I respect your opinion.

Same thing with Stewart vs. Okungwu. I think Okungwu looks better largely in part because he's on a better team. Stewart shows most of the same skils as Okungwu and brings more energy is a bit bigger and longer (7'4 wingspan vs. OO's 7'1 wingspan). I think they are very close as prospects, but I like Stewart's fit in the NBA a bit better. But it's close.'

As for Okoro, I'm just in love with his ceiling. If he adds a legitimate 3-pt shot (and he's already showed flashes), he's going to be a core piece for a franchise for a long-time and his ability to guard 1-5 cannot be understated.

[getrichordie]

Just edited my big board. Just a few changes noted in the original post.

[getrichordie]

Updated and expanded upon big board. Some big changes. Might comb through it again later.

[Catchall]

What's the appeal of Isaiah Stewart? He strikes me as mostly an energy big, but he wouldn't be as valuable to me as, say, Jalen Smith who can shoot as well as rebound and rim protect.

[getrichordie]

What's the appeal of Isaiah Stewart? He strikes me as mostly an energy big, but he wouldn't be as valuable to me as, say, Jalen Smith who can shoot as well as rebound and rim protect.

7’4 wing span. He’s strong and long and quite mobile for his size. He can protect the paint. Best suited as a small ball 5 but I think he can hold his own at the NBA level. Has flashed a mid range game and is a solid free throw shooter. Has good hands and good touch. And he’s super young. I think he has a lot of upside.

[Catchall]

I'm not over the moon with Obi Toppin, but to have him outside the lottery is pretty nuts to me. I can't see putting him behind Saddiq Bey. Toppin has some of the same strengths and weaknesses as Karl Towns. He's going to score in the paint, he's going to stretch the floor, and he's going to drive by average bigs. Yes, he needs everyone else on the floor to defend.

I also don't see Dosunmo as a 1st rounder. Not sure what you're seeing with him to put him ahead of Patrick Williams or Leandro Bolmaro. He's got a bit of speed, but that seems to be about it.

And while we're at it, damn, there are a lot of point guards in this draft that unless teams really want a point guard, a few good ones are going to drop.

[getrichordie]

I'm not over the moon with Obi Toppin, but to have him outside the lottery is pretty nuts to me. I can't see putting him behind Saddiq Bey. Toppin has some of the same strengths and weaknesses as Karl Towns. He's going to score in the paint, he's going to stretch the floor, and he's going to drive by average bigs. Yes, he needs everyone else on the floor to defend.

I also don't see Dosunmo as a 1st rounder. Not sure what you're seeing with him to put him ahead of Patrick Williams or Leandro Bolmaro. He's got a bit of speed, but that seems to be about it.

And while we're at it, damn, there are a lot of point guards in this draft that unless teams really want a point guard, a few good ones are going to drop.

I think Toppin is dominating a bunch of smaller guys and “out-athleting” some non-athletic players in a weaker conference. He can shoot, sure, but can he play defense at the next level? I don’t think he can.

He will struggle on perimeter and in space. He’s gonna get abused when he switches on to quicker players. He will be fine in transition, but I think his HC offense will be horrendous and he will be relegated to a Patrick Patterson role with small ball 5 sprinkled in.

[getrichordie]

Updated again. Forgot to rank Tre Jones and made a few additional changes. Getting a little bearish on Edwards the more I read about him and watch him on defense. Edwards isn't an elite shot creator or ball-handler and takes off plays on defense. I personally hate it when players take plays off like that. High bust potential.

[getrichordie]

Updated to include second round. Let me know what you guys think!

[getrichordie]

Updated.

[EvanZ]

I see now why you didn't like my tiers comment. I mean what is the point of making 20 tiers? I don't get it.

[getrichordie]

I see now why you didn't like my tiers comment. I mean what is the point of making 20 tiers? I don't get it.

I have 11 tiers. And it’s personally because I’m seeing some sort of separation in players in terms of talent and potential and projected NBA value. This is just my own personal analysis. I find this draft to be more nuanced so my tiers reflect that.

Also, while your here, please let me know if you see anything out of line on my board (besides the tiers) in terms of how I am valuing players. I’d love to discuss our difference in valuations.

[EvanZ]

Also, while your here, please let me know if you see anything out of line on my board (besides the tiers) in terms of how I am valuing players. I’d love to discuss our difference in valuations.

Your board is actually not all that different from mine. You already know I'm higher on Terry. Also much higher on Kira Lewis, for example. I think he has one of the highest upsides in the class. There are a few other differences but nothing too crazy.

[Catchall]

Just a few comments:

** Patrick Williams has real upside given his physical profile and the fact that he's one of the youngest prospects in the draft. His handle is basic, his passing is limited, and he plays too upright for my liking. However, what he does, he does well and it will translate: spot-ups, mid-range, rebounding, rim finishing, help-side defense, etc. He has a lot of potential as a 2-way player, probably more so than Tyler Bey. I think he'll get picked in the 16 - 22 range of the first round. I would argue that Williams is the prospect who is more likely to develop into a Jimmy Butler or near Kawhi Leonard rather than Bey, who looks like more of a defensive specialist and energy player (e.g., Brandon Clarke or Larry Nance Jr.).

** Leandro Bolmaro should be a first-round pick. He plays like a 6'7"/6'8" version of Ricky Rubio, complete with elite vision and timing on his passes, and near-elite on-ball defense. However, he finishes at the rim better than Rubio and is already showing potential as a spot-up shooter. Physically he's going to look like a leaner, friskier version of Cedi Osman, and his ability to do a bit of everything and his overall level of energy and competitiveness is going to impact games. He has pretty elite body control for a 6'8" wing, which makes him a solid horizontal athlete, if not an especially vertical athlete. I think he'll get drafted in the 20s of the first round.

** Again, I think Obi Toppin is like the PF version of Karl Towns, and his ability to play with force and score at three levels is going to have an impact. He also has some ability to play on the ball a la Blake Griffin. I'd absolutely have him above Haliburton and Josh Green.

** Like you, I also really like Vassell and think he's going to be able to score in the NBA as well as defend at a high level.

[getrichordie]

[

Spoiler:

quote="Catchall"]Just a few comments:

** Patrick Williams has real upside given his physical profile and the fact that he's one of the youngest prospects in the draft. His handle is basic, his passing is limited, and he plays too upright for my liking. However, what he does, he does well and it will translate: spot-ups, mid-range, rebounding, rim finishing, help-side defense, etc. He has a lot of potential as a 2-way player, probably more so than Tyler Bey. I think he'll get picked in the 16 - 22 range of the first round. I would argue that Williams is the prospect who is more likely to develop into a Jimmy Butler or near Kawhi Leonard rather than Bey, who looks like more of a defensive specialist and energy player (e.g., Brandon Clarke or Larry Nance Jr.).

** Leandro Bolmaro should be a first-round pick. He plays like a 6'7"/6'8" version of Ricky Rubio, complete with elite vision and timing on his passes, and near-elite on-ball defense. However, he finishes at the rim better than Rubio and is already showing potential as a spot-up shooter. Physically he's going to look like a leaner, friskier version of Cedi Osman, and his ability to do a bit of everything and his overall level of energy and competitiveness is going to impact games. He has pretty elite body control for a 6'8" wing, which makes him a solid horizontal athlete, if not an especially vertical athlete. I think he'll get drafted in the 20s of the first round.

** Again, I think Obi Toppin is like the PF version of Karl Towns, and his ability to play with force and score at three levels is going to have an impact. He also has some ability to play on the ball a la Blake Griffin. I'd absolutely have him above Haliburton and Josh Green.

** Like you, I also really like Vassell and think he's going to be able to score in the NBA as well as defend at a high level.[/quote]

I just don't see it with Patrick Williams. Just don't think he has shown enough on offense and is probably only average (or slightly above) defensively in the NBA, in my opinion. I personally think Tyler Bey is clearly head and shoulders above Williams as a prospect. I'm buying into his lateral quickness and ability to switch.

I have Bolmaro slotted the late 20s. I think he's still a little raw but showing great flashes. I think the fit has to be right. I can see SAS jumping on him (if Pop isn't retiring) at 12 or at least trading back to grab him.

I don't see Toppin as anywhere close to what Towns or Griffin can provide offensively. I don't think his half-court offense translates well to the league, though I think he will excel in transition and I think he will be horrid on defense. At best he's a solid 6th man, IMO.

[Catchall]

[

Spoiler:

quote="Catchall"]Just a few comments:

** Patrick Williams has real upside given his physical profile and the fact that he's one of the youngest prospects in the draft. His handle is basic, his passing is limited, and he plays too upright for my liking. However, what he does, he does well and it will translate: spot-ups, mid-range, rebounding, rim finishing, help-side defense, etc. He has a lot of potential as a 2-way player, probably more so than Tyler Bey. I think he'll get picked in the 16 - 22 range of the first round. I would argue that Williams is the prospect who is more likely to develop into a Jimmy Butler or near Kawhi Leonard rather than Bey, who looks like more of a defensive specialist and energy player (e.g., Brandon Clarke or Larry Nance Jr.).

** Leandro Bolmaro should be a first-round pick. He plays like a 6'7"/6'8" version of Ricky Rubio, complete with elite vision and timing on his passes, and near-elite on-ball defense. However, he finishes at the rim better than Rubio and is already showing potential as a spot-up shooter. Physically he's going to look like a leaner, friskier version of Cedi Osman, and his ability to do a bit of everything and his overall level of energy and competitiveness is going to impact games. He has pretty elite body control for a 6'8" wing, which makes him a solid horizontal athlete, if not an especially vertical athlete. I think he'll get drafted in the 20s of the first round.

** Again, I think Obi Toppin is like the PF version of Karl Towns, and his ability to play with force and score at three levels is going to have an impact. He also has some ability to play on the ball a la Blake Griffin. I'd absolutely have him above Haliburton and Josh Green.

** Like you, I also really like Vassell and think he's going to be able to score in the NBA as well as defend at a high level.[/quote]

I just don't see it with Patrick Williams. Just don't think he has shown enough on offense and is probably only average (or slightly above) defensively in the NBA, in my opinion. I personally think Tyler Bey is clearly head and shoulders above Williams as a prospect. I'm buying into his lateral quickness and ability to switch.

I have Bolmaro slotted the late 20s. I think he's still a little raw but showing great flashes. I think the fit has to be right. I can see SAS jumping on him (if Pop isn't retiring) at 12 or at least trading back to grab him.

I don't see Toppin as anywhere close to what Towns or Griffin can provide offensively. I don't think his half-court offense translates well to the league, though I think he will excel in transition and I think he will be horrid on defense. At best he's a solid 6th man, IMO.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

You're describing Toppin's worst-case scenario, which would basically be Jabari Parker.

Regarding Williams, everything he shows in the first 5 mins. of this video will translate to the NBA. His defense will get him on the floor early, in a role similar to James Johnson. When he bends his knees, gets low and drives, his offensive potential opens up, and this is where he shows flashes of Jimmy Butler athleticism and scoring from mid-range in. He's explosive moving from a full stop to getting above the rim in an instant, and he's already strong enough to push defenders out the way. He has pretty elite tools to work with and is only 18. I'd draft him starting at about 19 or 20 in the first round.

Watch on YouTube

[getrichordie]

...

Changed up my tiers. You would be proud. Any thing that jumps out to you?

[EvanZ]

...

Changed up my tiers. You would be proud. Any thing that jumps out to you?

Were you always that high on Jaden and Maxey? What makes you like them so much?