2020 NBA Draft II

mg · Post #541 » by mg » Wed Apr 8, 2020 6:46 pm

Fischella wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
The-Power wrote:You can scratch the ‘might’ and add a ‘by far’ at the end. LaMelo Ball might be the worst possible fit with Trae that I could imagine.

What makes you say that? You know Ball can actually play D like his brother, right? The only thing Ball is really lacking is a consistent shot and good shooting form.

His defense is going to be really really good. How does that not pair well with Trae?

His defense is probably going to be about avg, is bad now but he has good instincts, he is nowhere near Lonzo, nor projects to be, on that end

I've watched Lamelo in person since the beginning of his freshman year at Chino Hills HS. He has never given effort on the defensive end. Actually he and Liangelo were always more focused on cherry picking and would dart down to the offensive end of the court as soon as the other team would shoot. Lonzo or Okongwu would always get the defensive rebounds. Lonzo otoh did play defense in HS and also at UCLA. I don't think Lonzo and Lamelo are comparable at all on the defensive end of the floor.
Lamelo has one elite skill and that is passing the ball. He does not score efficiently. He has never given any effort on defense to this point.

Post #542 » by **Ruzious** » Wed Apr 8, 2020 6:56 pm

Fischella wrote:If you think Schlenk is drafting BPA you haven't followed him, he goes after his guys, period, end of story, I just don't see him targeting Hayes knowing what we know, about the franchise, himself, Trae Young and his people, and Hayes game

And I agree, Killian is a better prospect (tier ahead) than Hali

That's fine, except when you say "he goes after his guys, period, end of story" - That means the opposite of what you were trying to say. It means he goes after the players he thinks are the best - rather than trying to fill a need.

Stillwater · Post #543 » by **Stillwater** » Wed Apr 8, 2020 8:24 pm

shakes0 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Ok bored as f so here goes if lottery was this order...
1. Minnesota: Edwards
2. Golden State: Okongwu
3. Washington: Wiseman
4. New Orleans: Ramsey
5. Cleveland: Stewart
6. Atlanta: Vassell
7. Detroit: Hayes
8. New York: Okoro
9. Chicago: Toppin
10. Charlotte: Anthony
11. Phoenix: Haliburton
12. San Antonio: Maxey
13. Sacramento: Nesmith
14. Porland: Avdija

I am obviously ignoring some are not officially in but will be if there ever is a draft

you don't have Ball in the lottery? Is he not officially in?

Good q...I have no idea.
talking through a cigar" must have slipped my mind..."

clyde21 · Post #544 » by **clyde21** » Wed Apr 8, 2020 10:04 pm

the more I watch Bolmaro the more I like him, really not sure why Avdija is considered a top 5 guy but not Bolmaro, Bolmaro is better honestly to me

HeadtopChunes · Post #545 » by **HeadtopChunes** » Wed Apr 8, 2020 11:26 pm

Watch on YouTube

Post #546 » by **GimmeDat** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 1:04 am

You can't have LaMelo with another PG (like Trae). You have to let him run the offense, particularly while his shot is still a message, especially spotting up. Trae has the biggest usage rate in the league. It won't work.

And I'm not sure why we're giving LaMelo any credit as a defender. I watched him all NBL season. Apart from the instincts making occasional plays on that end, he was pretty horrific staying with his guy, fighting through screens, staying in front of his man, etc.

He's going to be a liability and the only way he's not going to be long term is if you buy him as a project whose still learning concepts and how to effectively play basketball at a high, organized level.

RiotPunch · Post #547 » by **RiotPunch** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 1:28 am

getrichordie wrote:Bolmaro showing off his defensive chops on the perimeter.

Read on Twitter

Man, he'd be so fun next to DiVincenzo, just wrecking games on the perimeter.

getrichordie · Post #548 » by **getrichordie** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 1:31 am

GimmeDat wrote:You can't have LaMelo with another PG (like Trae). You have to let him run the offense, particularly while his shot is still a message, especially spotting up. Trae has the biggest usage rate in the league. It won't work.

And I'm not sure why we're giving LaMelo any credit as a defender. I watched him all NBL season. Apart from the instincts making occasional plays on that end, he was pretty horrific staying with his guy, fighting through screens, staying in front of his man, etc.

He's going to be a liability and the only way he's not going to be long term is if you buy him as a project whose still learning concepts and how to effectively play basketball at a high, organized level.

Multiple NBA-level scouts have publically shared the sentiment that defense in the NBA mostly can be projected by athleticism, though that’s not always the case, of course. Ball will have that in spades for the point guard position. ~6’6.5 with a ~6’11 wingspan (according to The Stepien).

And an easy case could be made that he’s still learning how to play high-level organized basketball. He only played 12 games with the Illawarra Hawks.

No reason to think he won’t get better under NBA coaching.

Post #549 » by **GimmeDat** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 1:44 am

getrichordie wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:You can't have LaMelo with another PG (like Trae). You have to let him run the offense, particularly while his shot is still a message, especially spotting up. Trae has the biggest usage rate in the league. It won't work.

And I'm not sure why we're giving LaMelo any credit as a defender. I watched him all NBL season. Apart from the instincts making occasional plays on that end, he was pretty horrific staying with his guy, fighting through screens, staying in front of his man, etc.

He's going to be a liability and the only way he's not going to be long term is if you buy him as a project whose still learning concepts and how to effectively play basketball at a high, organized level.

Multiple NBA-level scouts have publically shared the sentiment that defense in the NBA mostly can be projected by athleticism, though that’s not always the case, of course. Ball will have that in spades for the point guard position. ~6’6.5 with a ~6’11 wingspan (according to The Stepien).

And an easy case could be made that he’s still learning how to play high-level organized basketball. He only played 12 games with the Illawarra Hawks.

No reason to think he won’t get better under NBA coaching.

I would dispute that. I think there's a higher threshold of athleticism/physical traits required to translate, but the biggest mistake in assessing guys defensively seems to be buying into guys with physical tools but not the actual ability to use it.

Also, Ball has the size, but I'm not sure he has the lateral ability to really have exceptional tools on D. His effort, awareness, technique are all extremely poor.

As I said, he could get better with NBA coaching. But so could any other guys that suck on defense right now. For it to be a more reasonable possibility, I think you have to buy the notion that he's behind the development curve because of his unique pathway.

getrichordie · Post #550 » by **getrichordie** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 2:11 am

GimmeDat wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:You can't have LaMelo with another PG (like Trae). You have to let him run the offense, particularly while his shot is still a message, especially spotting up. Trae has the biggest usage rate in the league. It won't work.

And I'm not sure why we're giving LaMelo any credit as a defender. I watched him all NBL season. Apart from the instincts making occasional plays on that end, he was pretty horrific staying with his guy, fighting through screens, staying in front of his man, etc.

He's going to be a liability and the only way he's not going to be long term is if you buy him as a project whose still learning concepts and how to effectively play basketball at a high, organized level.

Multiple NBA-level scouts have publically shared the sentiment that defense in the NBA mostly can be projected by athleticism, though that’s not always the case, of course. Ball will have that in spades for the point guard position. ~6’6.5 with a ~6’11 wingspan (according to The Stepien).

And an easy case could be made that he’s still learning how to play high-level organized basketball. He only played 12 games with the Illawarra Hawks.

No reason to think he won’t get better under NBA coaching.

I would dispute that. I think there's a higher threshold of athleticism/physical traits required to translate, but the biggest mistake in assessing guys defensively seems to be buying into guys with physical tools but not the actual ability to use it.

Also, Ball has the size, but I'm not sure he has the lateral ability to really have exceptional tools on D. His effort, awareness, technique are all extremely poor.

As I said, he could get better with NBA coaching. But so could any other guys that suck on defense right now. For it to be a more reasonable possibility, I think you have to buy the notion that he's behind the development curve because of his unique pathway.

I certainly buy it. 12 games in the NBL can only help you learn so much about your game. I think once LaMelo goes through the measurements and agility drills, teams are going to buy into him as a lead guard who can usher in a fast-paced modern offense similar to how Lonzo was viewed coming into his draft class.

And they will buy into his defensive potential. He has the potential to guard 1-3 and some 4s depending on how strong he gets. A lot of switchability potential which is huge.

HeadtopChunes · Post #551 » by **HeadtopChunes** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 5:06 am

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Anything particularly interesting here? Don’t get insider in Canada

Sactowndog · Post #552 » by **Sactowndog** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 5:25 am

RiotPunch wrote:
Sactowndog wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:1. Minnesota: Okongwu

-Preferably they trade down, but **** it. Weighing the likelihood of Ant reaching his ceiling in that locker room against the sureness and fit of Onyeka makes it a pretty easy decision. Not a team drafting for a franchise guy, they already have 1a and 1b in KAT/DLo. Okongwu can anchor the D and provide selfless offensive contributions, even if the J doesn't develop.

2. Golden State: Ball

-Savvy organizations take BPA, and the Warriors take LaMelo here, even if it doesn't make much sense. He has the highest ceiling, and under Kerr/Steph's tutelage provide a really good chance at him reaching that ceiling. This situation doesn't thrust him into production pressure, but allows him to develop and pick his spots playing meaningful minutes for a contender.

3. Washington: Edwards

-Wiz are not moving Wall, he is an anchor contract and they are married to it. I could see them giving in and trading Beal (BKN will be calling, offering LeVert/Dinwiddie/Allen) but either way, Ant is the pick here. Highest ceiling, another dude that can just get buckets. Dinwiddie/Ant/LeVert/Rui/Allen would be pretty sick, predicting that trade.

4. New Orleans: Okoro

-This is a super weird spot for NOLA. They have so many pieces and probably need to consolidate one way or another, but adding a premiere versatile defender with offensive upside seems like a good play. Lonzo/Ingram/Okoro/Zion/Jax for the future.

5. Cleveland: Avdija

-Provides a bit more playmaking and 2-way ability with core potential for CLE. Mess of a roster, but Deni can fit in pretty much anywhere.

6. Atlanta: Hampton

-Moonshot here, taking the best guard athlete in the class with immense speed/athleticism that you hope translates into great defense, despite poor defensive instincts. Trae/Hampton/Huerter or Hunter/Collins/Capela.

7. Detroit: Hayes

-Feels VERY wrong having Killian drop this far, and I would hope my Bucks would make an offer the Pistons could not refuse to take him here. If not, the *rebuilding* Pistons establish the Hayes/Doumbouya French connection.

8. New York: Anthony

-Knicks are looking for a scoring guard to take pressure off of RJ, and Cole does that. Cole/RJ/Knox/Randle/Robinson is, well, a team.

9. Chicago: Haliburton

-Adding some high IQ and playmaking to the Bulls is a welcome addition. Easy pick.

10. Charlotte: Wiseman

-Good spot to take a shot on James. Zeller/Biz getting phased out, rolling with Rozier/Graham/Bridges/Washington/Wiseman.

11. Phoenix: Maxey

-Strong POA and team defender, secondary playmaker, good fit next to Booker.

12. San Antonio: Bolmaro

-Pop can't pass up another Argentinian do-it-all wing, who partially replaces DeRozan.

13. Sacramento: Toppin

-BPA, weird fit next to Bagley, but weird is cool.

14. Portland: Williams

-Combo F from Florida State, great fit at the 3/4 for POR.

Leaves guys like Kira, Vassell, Poku, Nesmith, etc. Very much a FIT draft, IMO.

I think to your point about fit and upside, if Williams is around for Sac they take him. Good D, can swing 3 or 4 and with an excellent FT% hints he could be a good 3 point shooter.

I would certainly take Williams ahead of Toppin as well, but would Vlade?

Sure. Vlade has always valued athleticism over current skill set and perhaps too much. Nor does Vlade really care about consensus picks. If he did Luka would be a King.

RiotPunch · Post #553 » by **RiotPunch** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 5:27 am

New DX mock:

1. GSW - Ant Edwards (Best fit: Ball)
2. CLE - James Wiseman (Best fit: Okongwu)
3. ATL - Isaac Okoro (Best fit: Okoro)
4. MIN - LaMelo Ball (Best fit: Ball)
5. DET - Onyeka Okongwu (Best fit: Avdija)
6. NYK - Deni Avdija (Best fit: Ball)
7. CHI - Obi Toppin (Best fit: Haliburton)
8. CHA - Precious Achiuwa (Best fit: Okongwu)
9. WAS - Tyrese Haliburton (Best fit: Okongwu)
10. PHX - Killian Hayes (Best fit: Haliburton)
11. SAC - RJ Hampton (Best fit: McDaniels)
12. SAS - Tyrese Maxey (Best fit: Okoro)
13. POR - Cole Anthony (Best fit: Nesmith)
14. NO - Aaron Nesmith (Best fit: Nesmith)
15. BOS - Devin Vassell (Best fit: Bolmaro)
16. MIN - Jaden McDaniels (Best fit: S. Bey)
17. ORL - Theo Maledon (Best fit: Maledon)
18. MKE - Nico Mannion (Best fit: Nesmith)
19. DAL - Saddiq Bey (Best fit: S. Bey)
20. OKC - Patrick Williams (Best fit: Mannion)
21. BKN - Josh Green (Best fit: T. Bey)
22. DEN - Leandro Bolmaro (Best fit: S. Bey)
23. MIA - Robert Woodard II (Best fit: Woodard II)
24. UTA - Kira Lewis Jr. (Best fit: Lewis Jr.)
25. OKC - Jahmi'us Ramsey (Best fit: J. Smith)
26. BOS - Isaiah Stewart (Best fit: Stewart)
27. NYK - Vernon Carey Jr. (Best fit: Pritchard)
28. TOR - Aleksej Pokusevski (Best fit: Stewart)
29. LAL - Cassius Winston (Best fit: Mays)
30. BOS - Jalen Smith (Best fit: Winston)

31. DAL - Udoka Azubuike
32. CHA - Devon Dotson
33. PHI - Daniel Oturu
34. MIN - Zeke Nnaji
35. SAC - Tyler Bey
36. PHI - Payton Pritchard
37. WAS - Keyontae Johnson
38. NYK - Tre Jones
39. NO - Jordan Nwora
40. MEM - Amar Sylla
41. SAC - Corey Kispert
42. SAS- Abdoulaye N'Doye
43. POR - Jared Butler
44. NO - Malachi Flynn
45. CHI - Grant Riller
46. BOS - Skylar Mays
47. ORL - Elijah Hughes
48. IND - Cassius Stanley
49. GSW - Reggie Perry
50. OKC - Xavier Tillman
51. PHI - Paul Reed
52. ATL - Kenyon Martin Jr.
53. SAC - Ashton Hagans
54. GSW - Killian Tillie
55. BKN - Paul Eboua
56. CHA - John Petty Jr.
57. LAC - Nick Richards
58. TOR - Immanuel Quickley
59. PHI - Desmond Bane
60. NO - Markus Howard

RiotPunch · Post #554 » by **RiotPunch** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 5:35 am

Not to be confused with a BB, but man my evals differ quite a bit from Schmitz/Givony.

No Tyrell Terry. Way higher on Precious & McDaniels than I am. Way lower on Kira, Tillman, Riller & Bane than I am.

clyde21 · Post #555 » by **clyde21** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 5:53 am

^ LaMelo Ball is a terrible fit for us, we just had a Lamelo ball in D-Lo, terrible fit

RiotPunch · Post #556 » by **RiotPunch** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 6:03 am

I agree it would be a sub par fit, unless Steph plays purely off the ball. DLo could only dream of being the passing savant LaMelo is though, on the flip side LaMelo can't separate like DLo, they really are pretty different offensively... defensively, yeah, both are terrible which is not tolerated in Kerr culture.

EDIT: Could you sell me on Mannion a bit, clyde? I worry a lot about his frame at the next level. The Ginger-Italian duo of Mannion/DiVincenzo would be entertaining at least.

RiotPunch · Post #557 » by **RiotPunch** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 6:05 am

Gotta say, I nearly ruined my computer screen by spitting out my beer when I read the Knicks Vernon Carey pick.

getrichordie · Post #558 » by **getrichordie** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 6:43 am

RiotPunch wrote:Not to be confused with a BB, but man my evals differ quite a bit from Schmitz/Givony.

No Tyrell Terry. Way higher on Precious & McDaniels than I am. Way lower on Kira, Tillman, Riller & Bane than I am.

Is that Schmitz/Givony’s picks? Or yours? I’m confused. You just posted that list with no title.

RiotPunch · Post #559 » by **RiotPunch** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 7:27 am

getrichordie wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:Not to be confused with a BB, but man my evals differ quite a bit from Schmitz/Givony.

No Tyrell Terry. Way higher on Precious & McDaniels than I am. Way lower on Kira, Tillman, Riller & Bane than I am.

Is that Schmitz/Givony’s picks? Or yours? I’m confused. You just posted that list with no title.

It's the new DX mock, with 1st round "best fits" as well.

Typed it out for all you bozos.

No-Man · Post #560 » by **No-Man** » Thu Apr 9, 2020 10:43 am

RiotPunch wrote:New DX mock:

1. GSW - Ant Edwards (Best fit: Ball)
2. CLE - James Wiseman (Best fit: Okongwu)
3. ATL - Isaac Okoro (Best fit: Okoro)
4. MIN - LaMelo Ball (Best fit: Ball)
5. DET - Onyeka Okongwu (Best fit: Avdija)
6. NYK - Deni Avdija (Best fit: Ball)
7. CHI - Obi Toppin (Best fit: Haliburton)
8. CHA - Precious Achiuwa (Best fit: Okongwu)
9. WAS - Tyrese Haliburton (Best fit: Okongwu)
10. PHX - Killian Hayes (Best fit: Haliburton)
11. SAC - RJ Hampton (Best fit: McDaniels)
12. SAS - Tyrese Maxey (Best fit: Okoro)
13. POR - Cole Anthony (Best fit: Nesmith)
14. NO - Aaron Nesmith (Best fit: Nesmith)
15. BOS - Devin Vassell (Best fit: Bolmaro)
16. MIN - Jaden McDaniels (Best fit: S. Bey)
17. ORL - Theo Maledon (Best fit: Maledon)
18. MKE - Nico Mannion (Best fit: Nesmith)
19. DAL - Saddiq Bey (Best fit: S. Bey)
20. OKC - Patrick Williams (Best fit: Mannion)
21. BKN - Josh Green (Best fit: T. Bey)
22. DEN - Leandro Bolmaro (Best fit: S. Bey)
23. MIA - Robert Woodard II (Best fit: Woodard II)
24. UTA - Kira Lewis Jr. (Best fit: Lewis Jr.)
25. OKC - Jahmi'us Ramsey (Best fit: J. Smith)
26. BOS - Isaiah Stewart (Best fit: Stewart)
27. NYK - Vernon Carey Jr. (Best fit: Pritchard)
28. TOR - Aleksej Pokusevski (Best fit: Stewart)
29. LAL - Cassius Winston (Best fit: Mays)
30. BOS - Jalen Smith (Best fit: Winston)

31. DAL - Udoka Azubuike
32. CHA - Devon Dotson
33. PHI - Daniel Oturu
34. MIN - Zeke Nnaji
35. SAC - Tyler Bey
36. PHI - Payton Pritchard
37. WAS - Keyontae Johnson
38. NYK - Tre Jones
39. NO - Jordan Nwora
40. MEM - Amar Sylla
41. SAC - Corey Kispert
42. SAS- Abdoulaye N'Doye
43. POR - Jared Butler
44. NO - Malachi Flynn
45. CHI - Grant Riller
46. BOS - Skylar Mays
47. ORL - Elijah Hughes
48. IND - Cassius Stanley
49. GSW - Reggie Perry
50. OKC - Xavier Tillman
51. PHI - Paul Reed
52. ATL - Kenyon Martin Jr.
53. SAC - Ashton Hagans
54. GSW - Killian Tillie
55. BKN - Paul Eboua
56. CHA - John Petty Jr.
57. LAC - Nick Richards
58. TOR - Immanuel Quickley
59. PHI - Desmond Bane
60. NO - Markus Howard

Yikes that's bad

Did they get the order wrong? Bos and Orl are switched in the 1st round