What was the story with Glenn Rice?

[mastermixer]

Did he want out Charlotte to come here?

I know we gave up Eddie Jones to get him, how was the trade viewed at the time?

He seemingly should have been a perfect fit in our system to be the 3rd guy. What went wrong so quickly?

Did we get good value back for him?


I read an old New York Times article after the trade that seems to explain his trouble with Phil. But hoping to get some of your guys details of how everything went down.

[kblo247]

He did not ask to be traded to the Lakers.

Eddie got traded because of a couple things. One is that they didn’t think he and Kobe could both start together along with Fox who was a better defender than Eddie. (See Rider making Eddie his bitch)

Eddie was hurt by the fact that they didn’t want to pay him and Kobe both. In fact Kobe took a pay cut with his first extension being so low for the 3 peat.

Elden was also given away in the deal to clear up money because the lakers Penny penched. And that would be a trend with retaining Horace Grant and Horry years later too

Rice came to the team and his first year he had the Rodman experiment overshadow him and his flaws. He also got pissed they picked his option up which retained him for cheaper after promising they wouldn’t by his account.

They tried to deal him in the summer for Pippen when Phil arrived but it fell apart and kinda changed history as Kobe would have been literally MJ, and not the MJ and Pippen hybrid who started the triangle as an initiator.

He got outplayed by Fox when it mattered. He literally could not over shadow what Fox brought as a two way guy and Phil went with Fox to close games when it mattered because he felt that Fox was a winning player.

Fox gets promoted to starting sf for 01 and Rice goes out for a deal for Grant and other pieces with the Knicks and Sonics. Horace comes in and the lakes now have the ability to defend Webber, Sheed, KG, Tim one on one and then slide him down to 5 for spots when Shaq sits. Fox steps you, does stuff like shut Peja down and the team goes 15-1. Then we cheap out and refuse to give Horace the BAE instead opting to pay Samaki Walker a vet min

Fox helps team 3 peat as our fourth best player. He is the second best two way guy on the team. Rice offers nothing else and is out the league

[Beethoven]

I dont think anything went wrong, and I dont recall all the details like above, but all I remember was that he came in for a season to help us win a championship being a 3rd option (which he did decently when it mattered) and left to go to Miami (his heart didnt seem to want to stay /re-sign with us so we knew it was a risk getting him).
Oh, and i remember Phil running special plays for him or a game or two designed solely around him as the primary offensive threat because he didnt really work in the triangle or something like that.

[dockingsched]

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/26/sports/pro-basketball-a-stifled-rice-fires-away-at-jackson-and-the-lakers.html

[mastermixer]

He did not ask to be traded to the Lakers.

Eddie got traded because of a couple things. One is that they didn’t think he and Kobe could both start together along with Fox who was a better defender than Eddie. (See Rider making Eddie his bitch)

Eddie was hurt by the fact that they didn’t want to pay him and Kobe both. In fact Kobe took a pay cut with his first extension being so low for the 3 peat.

Elden was also given away in the deal to clear up money because the lakers Penny penched. And that would be a trend with retaining Horace Grant and Horry years later too

Rice came to the team and his first year he had the Rodman experiment overshadow him and his flaws. He also got pissed they picked his option up which retained him for cheaper after promising they wouldn’t by his account.

They tried to deal him in the summer for Pippen when Phil arrived but it fell apart and kinda changed history as Kobe would have been literally MJ, and not the MJ and Pippen hybrid who started the triangle as an initiator.

He got outplayed by Fox when it mattered. He literally could not over shadow what Fox brought as a two way guy and Phil went with Fox to close games when it mattered because he felt that Fox was a winning player.

Fox gets promoted to starting sf for 01 and Rice goes out for a deal for Grant and other pieces with the Knicks and Sonics. Horace comes in and the lakes now have the ability to defend Webber, Sheed, KG, Tim one on one and then slide him down to 5 for spots when Shaq sits. Fox steps you, does stuff like shut Peja down and the team goes 15-1. Then we cheap out and refuse to give Horace the BAE instead opting to pay Samaki Walker a vet min

Fox helps team 3 peat as our fourth best player. He is the second best two way guy on the team. Rice offers nothing else and is out the league

Interesting. Would have been interesting to see what Pip could have brought to the team. In the article I read, Rice basically said he felt like Phil was trying to relegate him to spot-up shooter, and felt like Phil never wanted him there.

I see what you're saying now about Fox (and Grant) being a better fit (at least in that era). We already had our scoring taken care ofwith Shaq, Kobe + role players being able to hit mid range. It was more important back then to be able guard all those dominate PF's with Grant that it was to have Rice's shooting.

[jigga_man]

Eddie was hurt by the fact that they didn’t want to pay him and Kobe both. In fact Kobe took a pay cut with his first extension being so low for the 3 peat.

That was pretty much the max he could have received at the time, which was 70 million. Iverson got the same deal as well. After Garnett received his huge extension the owners got spooked which led to the lockout. After the new CBA was implemented, the max salaries were reduced.

[kblo247]

Eddie was hurt by the fact that they didn’t want to pay him and Kobe both. In fact Kobe took a pay cut with his first extension being so low for the 3 peat.

That was pretty much the max he could have received at the time, which was 70 million. Iverson got the same deal as well. After Garnett received his huge extension the owners got spooked which led to the lockout. After the new CBA was implemented, the max salaries were reduced.

Yeah they did give him pretty much the max extension, not the full one like Iverson. Their salary gaps came in years 5 and 6. Kobe took a haircut compared to him and was shorted out of a lil bit of cash. Kobe also could have just did what McGrady and Duncan did and skipped the extension and forced Buss to pony up more then during the summer to retain him, but in hindsight it probably makes Kobe and Shaq stay together as Kobe can't leave after 04 so they may have to sit down and talk everything out if Kobe is hooked on a deal for another year.

[theforumblue]

i got nothing but love for Eddie Jones but man when I heard lakers got Glenn Rice, even the post elbow surgery Glenn Rice,...all i could think was ITS OVER FOR THE LEAGUE YOU TELLING ME YOU GONNA GIVE SHAQ AND KOBE A PREMIER 3PT MAN?!?! OVER!!!

didn't work out that way but whatever. got nothing but love for Fox too. Phil didn't treat Glenn right though. i think he was lethal enough weapon to deserve more consideration by phil than he did.

[Landsberger]

My thoughts on Rice were that we wanted a shooter which he was but he was also a faux "first option" guy... meaning he was a first option on decent regular season teams. He had the pride and attitude of a first option guy while having the 3rd best game on our team and playing in a motion offense. Bad fit for us overall but we did win a title with him.

That said, Rice was an exciting offensive player but didn't give top effort on defense if memory serves.

[BigtimeNBAfan]

i got nothing but love for Eddie Jones but man when I heard lakers got Glenn Rice, even the post elbow surgery Glenn Rice,...all i could think was ITS OVER FOR THE LEAGUE YOU TELLING ME YOU GONNA GIVE SHAQ AND KOBE A PREMIER 3PT MAN?!?! OVER!!!

didn't work out that way but whatever. got nothing but love for Fox too. Phil didn't treat Glenn right though. i think he was lethal enough weapon to deserve more consideration by phil than he did.

It kind of worked. 16 pts a game as a 3rd option on a 67 win championship team. He was only with the Lakers for a year and a half so it is hard to say it didn't work, at least during the time he was there. Would it have worked longer? Probably not. He did fall off shortly thereafter.

[PKABOOICU]

Ok theres so much wrong in this thread.

Kobe was clearly the superior option to Eddie Jones at the time. Eddie felt betrayed by the Lakers for not being featured enough alongside Shaq/Kobe. The Lakers traded him away for Rice, which at the time, was a 60/40 split favoring Eddie over Rice.
Rice was an established allstar on his way down, while Eddie was a star in the making, on his way up.

Rice fit in with the Lakers right away, averaging 15.9 ppg as a 3rd option, and winning a Championship in 2000. Jones wound up leading the league in steals in his first year with Charlotte. He pretty much had a break out year.

Now, the reason Rice left wasn't because of his rift with Phil. It was because of his wife. She had a problem with the Lakers not paying him, and it carried over to the front office. This disgruntled Rice, and he was gone after 3 seasons. His wife at the time forced him out of LA.

[kblo247]

Zen Master said he had nothing personal against the Knicks forward but he wanted Scottie Pippen because he knew the triangle offense better than Rice did.

“Glen and I have nothing emotional against each other,” Jackson said before the Lakers hosted the Nets last night at Staples Center. “He’s right. I tried to get Scottie Pippen. That was for a reason I explained to Glen and it was because he had played in a system I coached for 10 years, inside and out, and he was a facilitator in the offense and thereby a playmaker for for it.

“It wasn’t anything to do with Glen,” Jackson added. “It had to do with what I needed as a coach. So we crossed that hurdle way back in October and November of last year. He contributed to us last year.”

Rice said that Jackson “didn’t want me there from Day 1. The moment he got there he was talking about how he wanted Scottie, how he wanted Kukoc. He never said he wanted Glen Rice. He has his wish.”

Rice’s agent, told The Post after the trade that he never had a client treated worse than the Lakers treated Rice. This week, Rice admitted he had to control himself from getting physical with Jackson and mockingly called him “God.”

“He’s surprised I was upset?,” Rice said. “If he thinks back, I was on his team. When you’re talking about going out and getting somebody else at the position I’m playing, and I’m on your team, how the hell can you be surprised? Anybody in their right mind would be upset.”

[Landsberger]

Zen Master said he had nothing personal against the Knicks forward but he wanted Scottie Pippen because he knew the triangle offense better than Rice did.

“Glen and I have nothing emotional against each other,” Jackson said before the Lakers hosted the Nets last night at Staples Center. “He’s right. I tried to get Scottie Pippen. That was for a reason I explained to Glen and it was because he had played in a system I coached for 10 years, inside and out, and he was a facilitator in the offense and thereby a playmaker for for it.

“It wasn’t anything to do with Glen,” Jackson added. “It had to do with what I needed as a coach. So we crossed that hurdle way back in October and November of last year. He contributed to us last year.”

Rice said that Jackson “didn’t want me there from Day 1. The moment he got there he was talking about how he wanted Scottie, how he wanted Kukoc. He never said he wanted Glen Rice. He has his wish.”

Rice’s agent, told The Post after the trade that he never had a client treated worse than the Lakers treated Rice. This week, Rice admitted he had to control himself from getting physical with Jackson and mockingly called him “God.”

“He’s surprised I was upset?,” Rice said. “If he thinks back, I was on his team. When you’re talking about going out and getting somebody else at the position I’m playing, and I’m on your team, how the hell can you be surprised? Anybody in their right mind would be upset.”

Pretty hard to "set this thread straight" when you have quotes from both guys involved....

[Dmkorc23]

I was never a huge Phil Jackson fan and I feel that Rice was a victim.

Phil Jackson, for all his virtues, was someone who doesn't evolve. Look at how many former Bulls players he acquired while at the Lakers-Ron Harper, Horace Grant, John Salley and he tried so hard to get Pippen. Am I grateful towards him winning us 3 rings? Yes. But he did destroyed Glen Rice's career.

He never wanted Rice; he admitted it so as well. He never wanted to try to fit Rice in. Rice was still a great player when he came to LA. In fact, he was still great even in 2000-as a third option, he averaged 16 ppg. It was definitely true that Rick Fox was a way better defender than Rice, but offensively, Rice was way ahead of Fox as well.

As a Laker fan, I always felt that our offense was bad whenever Kobe and/or Shaq sat. Could Rice had been that spark for us? I think there's a huge potential there.

I love what Rick Fox brought to the team; I even watched Dancing with the stars because I felt he was actually quite a cool dude. But let's face it-even his supposed superior aspect over Rice, his defense, was due to his efforts. It wasn't that he was particularly good/great at it. If only Phil Jackson spent some time helping Rice with that, the value of having Rice over Fox would definitely be much much more.

Rice fell off hard thereafter. It was difficult when you had the perceived greatest coach saying you suck. Rice's destination of New York also effectively killed his career (in addition to injuries). How was he supposed to re-vitalize his career when he was behind Allan Houston and Sprewell?

Phil Jackson simply never gave Rice a shot and detested him because he couldn't get Pippen. He wanted his old guards and took it out on Rice when the trade failed to materialize. Just look at what the Lakers got back in return for Rice.

[kblo247]

I was never a huge Phil Jackson fan and I feel that Rice was a victim.

Phil Jackson, for all his virtues, was someone who doesn't evolve. Look at how many former Bulls players he acquired while at the Lakers-Ron Harper, Horace Grant, John Salley and he tried so hard to get Pippen. Am I grateful towards him winning us 3 rings? Yes. But he did destroyed Glen Rice's career.

He never wanted Rice; he admitted it so as well. He never wanted to try to fit Rice in. Rice was still a great player when he came to LA. In fact, he was still great even in 2000-as a third option, he averaged 16 ppg. It was definitely true that Rick Fox was a way better defender than Rice, but offensively, Rice was way ahead of Fox as well.

As a Laker fan, I always felt that our offense was bad whenever Kobe and/or Shaq sat. Could Rice had been that spark for us? I think there's a huge potential there.

I love what Rick Fox brought to the team; I even watched Dancing with the stars because I felt he was actually quite a cool dude. But let's face it-even his supposed superior aspect over Rice, his defense, was due to his efforts. It wasn't that he was particularly good/great at it. If only Phil Jackson spent some time helping Rice with that, the value of having Rice over Fox would definitely be much much more.

Rice fell off hard thereafter. It was difficult when you had the perceived greatest coach saying you suck. Rice's destination of New York also effectively killed his career (in addition to injuries). How was he supposed to re-vitalize his career when he was behind Allan Houston and Sprewell?

Phil Jackson simply never gave Rice a shot and detested him because he couldn't get Pippen. He wanted his old guards and took it out on Rice when the trade failed to materialize. Just look at what the Lakers got back in return for Rice.

Lakers got Horace Grant for Rice, Horace pretty much spent his career helping teams win more. And Rice rubbed people wrong. Rodman criticizes the Rice for Eddie deal in 99 too as he felt it ranked chemistry and then he started acting out too.

Had the Lakers retained Grant in 02, they 3 peat much easier. Same with Lue. It’s not losing Rice that hurt them, it’s losing Horace and Lue for the bones of Hunter and Samaki that did them in. You can even point out that Harper gave Phil more than Rider or Richmond did.

And Fox was pretty much a 12-15 point scorer easily people forget but he sacrificed it all to win. In fact what he did to Peja in 01 is greater than anything Rice did in a Laker uniform.

I will say that Rice honestly would have been better off in LA had he accepted being Kukoc. He had the height and length for it. He could never be what Pippen was, he wasn’t good enough or versatile enough. But had he and Phil sat and talked he would have made an excellent stretch 4 with his shot, height, lack of perimeter defense, and it would have allowed them another dynamic.

[scoobs07]

I remember he was dealing with an injured elbow and there was some drama with his wife, but I think he played well for us. I think a lot of people lost sight that Rice was the third option and he wasn't going to put up the superstar numbers that he did in Miami/Charlotte. Glen Rice was arguably the best three point shooter of his generation. Offensively, he was a great complement to Kobe/Shaq.

[tamaraw08]

I was never a huge Phil Jackson fan and I feel that Rice was a victim.

Phil Jackson, for all his virtues, was someone who doesn't evolve. Look at how many former Bulls players he acquired while at the Lakers-Ron Harper, Horace Grant, John Salley and he tried so hard to get Pippen. Am I grateful towards him winning us 3 rings? Yes. But he did destroyed Glen Rice's career.

He never wanted Rice; he admitted it so as well. He never wanted to try to fit Rice in. Rice was still a great player when he came to LA. In fact, he was still great even in 2000-as a third option, he averaged 16 ppg. It was definitely true that Rick Fox was a way better defender than Rice, but offensively, Rice was way ahead of Fox as well.

As a Laker fan, I always felt that our offense was bad whenever Kobe and/or Shaq sat. Could Rice had been that spark for us? I think there's a huge potential there.

I love what Rick Fox brought to the team; I even watched Dancing with the stars because I felt he was actually quite a cool dude. But let's face it-even his supposed superior aspect over Rice, his defense, was due to his efforts. It wasn't that he was particularly good/great at it. If only Phil Jackson spent some time helping Rice with that, the value of having Rice over Fox would definitely be much much more.

Rice fell off hard thereafter. It was difficult when you had the perceived greatest coach saying you suck. Rice's destination of New York also effectively killed his career (in addition to injuries). How was he supposed to re-vitalize his career when he was behind Allan Houston and Sprewell?

Phil Jackson simply never gave Rice a shot and detested him because he couldn't get Pippen. He wanted his old guards and took it out on Rice when the trade failed to materialize. Just look at what the Lakers got back in return for Rice.

Lakers got Horace Grant for Rice, Horace pretty much spent his career helping teams win more. And Rice rubbed people wrong. Rodman criticizes the Rice for Eddie deal in 99 too as he felt it ranked chemistry and then he started acting out too.

Had the Lakers retained Grant in 02, they 3 peat much easier. Same with Lue. It’s not losing Rice that hurt them, it’s losing Horace and Lue for the bones of Hunter and Samaki that did them in. You can even point out that Harper gave Phil more than Rider or Richmond did.

And Fox was pretty much a 12-15 point scorer easily people forget but he sacrificed it all to win. In fact what he did to Peja in 01 is greater than anything Rice did in a Laker uniform.

I will say that Rice honestly would have been better off in LA had he accepted being Kukoc. He had the height and length for it. He could never be what Pippen was, he wasn’t good enough or versatile enough. But had he and Phil sat and talked he would have made an excellent stretch 4 with his shot, height, lack of perimeter defense, and it would have allowed them another dynamic.

I agree with most of points except him being an excellent stretch 4. He was listed a 6-8 and bear in mind at that time that the West had glut of prolific PFs like Malone, Duncan, C-Webb, Sheed, KG etc etc. Horry was clutch in late game playoffs but he was getting torched for most of the game and Horace was the perfect cure for the Laker's problem.
West drafted and loved Eddie but most fans bemoaned his lack of courage to step up in clutch situations. He was very reluctant to take high pressured shots, at times hiding between passing lanes so he won't have to get the ball....
West felt he needed a great shooter to unclog the lanes for Shaq but he didn't anticipate that Glen will struggle grasping the triangle. His wife finally lost her mind bec she thought that her husband would get many touches after Kobe was prevented from playing due to an ankle injury during the finals vs Indiana but he didn't.
16 pts wasn't bad for a player who had less touches but he was an allstar. In retrospect, most great systems really need 2 superstars i.e. Phils teams with MJ,Shaq/Kobe. Lebron with Kyrie and Wade with Love and Bosh struggling to get their usual output. Yes, GSW made it work, but it has to be a perfect fit.

[LAKESHOW]

I don't know about all the off court stuff. But in my opinion from what I had seen on court, it was all about his Defense. Dude totally sucked. No lateral movement. Dudes would drive by him at will and score. That's where Fox gained his fame. A strong defender guy. Take tough defensive assignments. Etc. But Rice was stiff as a rock defensively

[LakersLegacy]

Phil said in his book he thought Rice was falling off a cliff

[tamaraw08]

Phil said in his book he thought Rice was falling off a cliff

I read most of Phil's books and I don't recall him stating that, but it that is true, Rice still did pretty well, averaged 16 pts for 12 shots.
Another comment about him totally sucking on defense, and yet Phil who is about winning and being strong willed, let him play for 31.6 mins/game. I am not saying he is a great defender, of course Fox was a much better one but it didn't makes sense to me that Phil would play him more minutes if he is constantly getting torched.
But to reiterate my point, most good systems only need 2 supertars to win, from the Bulls to Phil coached Lakers.
Even with the Spurs, Manu was a great scorer and yet only hit above 17pts twice in his 15 years. Most of us are still at a loss on why Kuzma was not thriving this year and yet it usually happens to a 3rd option for a Lebron team, from Bosh to Love and now to Kuz.