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Not a surprise. I think he'll rise back up to the top of the draft if and when workouts begin. He's a beast and you get him in a controlled environment he'll look absolutely otherworldly.3toheadmelo wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:moocow007 wrote:Zenzibar wrote:Pick 27
Can Tyler Bey be the next Kawhi Leonard? - 2020 NBA Draft Prospect - Defensive Breakdown
Is there an offensive breakdown? Kawhi Leonard is Kawhi Leonard because of what he can do on both sides of the ball (as well as the big wingspan and monster sized hands). If he's just Kawhi Leonard on the defensive end, and I'll be quite honest, what makes Leonard who he is on the defensive end is more than just effort and intensity, then this vid should be titled probably more so "Can Tyler Bey be the next Justise Winslow, Andre Roberson, Luc Mbah A Moute (etc)" instead.
In fact Andre Roberson, who like Bey also attended the University of Colorado and who, like Bey, also was a long armed athletic defensive force, may be a better comp for Tyler Bey. Bey is a tick better as a shooter than Roberson was (Bey has better form than Roberson had at the same age) but Roberson I'd argue was a better defender. And there's actually nothing wrong if Bey turned out to be Roberson cause Roberson's started 269 of the 296 games in the NBA he's played in across 4.5 seasons. If a team can get another Andre Roberson (one of the best wing defenders in the league according to advanced stats) at 27 then that would probably be considered a job well done for any NBA GM.
Guys like Leonard has a smoothness to their game so that they don't need to look like a chicken with their head cut off and still be everywhere on defense and shutting opposing players down. They don't need to be dunking and exploding to the basket and expending all that energy, and still before you know it they've scored 25 points in all sorts of ways. Guys like Leonard (and Steph Curry, and James Harden, Rusell Westbrook, Dwayne Wade and every other superstar player) has a 'naturalness' (be it explosive based or finesse based or some combination) to their game that makes them seem both effortless and dominant all at the same time. That's what you look for if you want to project someone as a possible superstar player in the NBA.
I'm not sure I see that in Bey. He does have long arms and moves his feet well and built like an ideal NBA wing (why Kawhi Leonard was brought into the discussion). But I think that comparison is just a bit nuts and really more click bait and wishful thinking than anything else since obviously a lot less likely anyone bother watching the clip if it was titled "Can Tyler Bey be the next Andre Roberson?".
Now as far as the Knicks drafting Bey with the Clippers pick? I think Bey would be a great pick for a team looking to compete for a title (bottom of the 1st round). For the Knicks? The Knicks could use defense but they need so much right now that I don't know that an Andre Roberson type would ever really get much of a look. I would stick with trying to find someone that can be a super diamond in the rough than playing it safe with someone like Bey. The same group of guys consisting of Vernon Carey, Kira Lewis, Jalen Smith, etc.
WOW, that was a long ass reply. You must have a lot of time of your hands, oh wait...
Question though. How many full games of Colorado have you seen?
moocow007 wrote:Zenzibar wrote:moocow007 wrote:
Is there an offensive breakdown? Kawhi Leonard is Kawhi Leonard because of what he can do on both sides of the ball (as well as the big wingspan and monster sized hands). If he's just Kawhi Leonard on the defensive end, and I'll be quite honest, what makes Leonard who he is on the defensive end is more than just effort and intensity, then this vid should be titled probably more so "Can Tyler Bey be the next Justise Winslow, Andre Roberson, Luc Mbah A Moute (etc)" instead.
In fact Andre Roberson, who like Bey also attended the University of Colorado and who, like Bey, also was a long armed athletic defensive force, may be a better comp for Tyler Bey. Bey is a tick better as a shooter than Roberson was (Bey has better form than Roberson had at the same age) but Roberson I'd argue was a better defender. And there's actually nothing wrong if Bey turned out to be Roberson cause Roberson's started 269 of the 296 games in the NBA he's played in across 4.5 seasons. If a team can get another Andre Roberson (one of the best wing defenders in the league according to advanced stats) at 27 then that would probably be considered a job well done for any NBA GM.
Guys like Leonard has a smoothness to their game so that they don't need to look like a chicken with their head cut off and still be everywhere on defense and shutting opposing players down. They don't need to be dunking and exploding to the basket and expending all that energy, and still before you know it they've scored 25 points in all sorts of ways. Guys like Leonard (and Steph Curry, and James Harden, Rusell Westbrook, Dwayne Wade and every other superstar player) has a 'naturalness' (be it explosive based or finesse based or some combination) to their game that makes them seem both effortless and dominant all at the same time. That's what you look for if you want to project someone as a possible superstar player in the NBA.
I'm not sure I see that in Bey. He does have long arms and moves his feet well and built like an ideal NBA wing (why Kawhi Leonard was brought into the discussion). But I think that comparison is just a bit nuts and really more click bait and wishful thinking than anything else since obviously a lot less likely anyone bother watching the clip if it was titled "Can Tyler Bey be the next Andre Roberson?".
Now as far as the Knicks drafting Bey with the Clippers pick? I think Bey would be a great pick for a team looking to compete for a title (bottom of the 1st round). For the Knicks? The Knicks could use defense but they need so much right now that I don't know that an Andre Roberson type would ever really get much of a look. I would stick with trying to find someone that can be a super diamond in the rough than playing it safe with someone like Bey. The same group of guys consisting of Vernon Carey, Kira Lewis, Jalen Smith, etc.
WOW
Question though. How many full games of Colorado have you seen?
More than you...especially if you believe after watching him play he's the next Kawhi Leonard.
Seriously though he's closer to Andre Roberson than Kawhi Leonard like I said.
And draft.net has some of the worst comparisons ever. The number of Larry Birds and Michael Jordans that were supposed to be in the NBA...
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3toheadmelo wrote:robillionaire wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:He might be one of those Kentucky guards that are slept on and end up being really good (Booker/SGA/Herro).
he actually is good. was probably the best player on UK. He shot 42.8% from 3 and 92.3% from the FT line. with that said he's a little undersized for a SG. But makes up for it with wingspan. He can shoot the rock though. Also nick richards had a solid year at center and I look for him to be a sleeper in the 2nd round
Yeah I think I like him the most out of the UK players. Whats your thoughts on Maxey? He reminds me of Sexton but a worse version of him. I think I would pass on him but I have not seen much UK games to have a strong opinion
HarthorneWingo wrote:DrCoach wrote:Hayes intrigues me
I'd much rather draft Hayes than Cole Anthony. What about those bigs with the African names I can't spell?
Zenzibar wrote:moocow007 wrote:Zenzibar wrote:
WOW
Question though. How many full games of Colorado have you seen?
More than you...especially if you believe after watching him play he's the next Kawhi Leonard.
Seriously though he's closer to Andre Roberson than Kawhi Leonard like I said.
And draft.net has some of the worst comparisons ever. The number of Larry Birds and Michael Jordans that were supposed to be in the NBA...
Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app
https://grantland.com/features/the-nba-draft-lottery-player-guide/
Kawhi Leonard
Age: 20
Height: 6-7
Weight: 225
San Diego State
Kawhi Leonard is one of the most physically gifted players in this year’s draft pool. With his height, bulk and leaping ability, Leonard looks like he could become the prototypical NBA small forward. Questions remain about his outside shot — he made just 29 percent of his 3s last season — and whether he can create his own shot. His skills might be better suited to play the power forward position, where he’d be seriously undersized at 6-foot-7. Leonard also played passive at times at San Diego State, sometimes disappearing for long stretches of games. The player from this draft he most resembles is Tristan Thompson, another undersized post player who relies on hustle and strength. Of the two, Leonard is shorter but has a better chance at playing the post. He has a 7-3 wingspan and should be good for at least one YouTube-worthy dunk or block per week. If he develops a jumper and improves his ability to finish at the rim, Leonard could become more than just a defensive role player.
CEILING: Gerald Wallace
FLOOR: Ronaldo Balkman
MOST TELLING STAT: Hand measurements (9.8 inches long, 11.3 inches wide)
Anyway, give me 2 picks at 27 and I'll give you 2. We'll circle back.
3toheadmelo wrote:HEZI wrote:moocow007 wrote:
Is there an offensive breakdown? Kawhi Leonard is Kawhi Leonard because of what he can do on both sides of the ball (as well as the big wingspan and monster sized hands). If he's just Kawhi Leonard on the defensive end, and I'll be quite honest, what makes Leonard who he is on the defensive end is more than just effort and intensity, then this vid should be titled probably more so "Can Tyler Bey be the next Justise Winslow, Andre Roberson, Luc Mbah A Moute (etc)" instead. In fact Andre Roberson, who like Bey also attended the University of Colorado and who, like Bey, also was a long armed athletic defensive force, may be a better comp for Tyler Bey. Bey is a tick better as a shooter than Roberson was but Roberson I'd argue was a better defender.
Guys like Leonard has a smoothness to their game so that they don't need to look like a chicken with their head cut off and still be everywhere on defense and shutting opposing players down. They don't need to be dunking and exploding to the basket and expending all that energy, and still before you know it they've scored 25 points in all sorts of ways. Guys like Leonard (and Steph Curry, and James Harden, Rusell Westbrook, Dwayne Wade and every other superstar player) has a 'naturalness' (be it explosive based or finesse based or some combination) to their game that makes them seem both effortless and dominant all at the same time. That's what you look for if you want to project someone as a possible superstar player in the NBA.
I'm not sure I see that in Bey. He does have long arms and moves his feet well and built like an ideal NBA wing (why Kawhi Leonard was brought into the discussion). But I think that comparison is just a bit nuts and really more click bait and wishful thinking than anything else.
Guys like him need to be compared to Stanley Johnson and OG Anunoby before we even think of Kawhi territory. Year after year guys get compared to Kawhi and never come even close.
Thoughts on Isaac Okoro? Someone here compared him to Kawhi and now DX has him going #3. I dont see it though and I dont think he should go that high at all.
robillionaire wrote:finestrg wrote:Happy Easter to all!
Just praying the Knicks give this guy a good look when the time comes. I have too many questions with all the guards in this draft. This guy, meanwhile, continues to feel like a can't miss to me. 6'10" 240 with long arms. Legit C that plays both ends. Already very skilled and esp. offensively, that skill set will only continue to grow (if I drafted this kid, my first order of business would be to get him with the best offensive big man coach I could find -- Hakeem the Dream, if he still does his big man mini-camp instruction, or someone like Carmelo maybe, if he decides to hang it up for good). The rest is instinctual and he does it all well (rebounding, shot-blocking, and he's a real worker, not afraid to get dirty down low). Love everything about him. Cannot believe so many mock drafts out there are undervaluing him the way they are. Complete mystery to me. Just the numbers alone scream lottery pick.
I've been saying a better version of Al Horford all along. Even a Myles Turner/Andre Drummond hybrid with his outside shooting touch paired with the muscle/dirty work/lunch pail inside game -- he's actually already a pretty damn good post player to boot, much better than Andre Drummond). Just read someone on YouTube comparing him to a Hassan Whiteside with a better jumper -- I like that comparison too, think it's accurate. I understand most think he's a reach but to me, if Wiseman and Toppin are off the board, this would be my guy. Just screams quality/production right away COUPLED WITH upside/even higher ceiling to me.
the consensus seems to be he's not a first round pick so if you really like him I feel like we could very comfortably select him with our 27th pick which would not be much of a reach at all (espn and tankathon have him going 33rd in their latest mock) and take another good player along with him using our top 10 pick then you could have two good players instead of him and the 27th pick
DaGawd wrote:I'm in on the Hayes bandwagon. That kid has it
moocow007 wrote:Zenzibar wrote:moocow007 wrote:
More than you...especially if you believe after watching him play he's the next Kawhi Leonard.
Seriously though he's closer to Andre Roberson than Kawhi Leonard like I said.
And draft.net has some of the worst comparisons ever. The number of Larry Birds and Michael Jordans that were supposed to be in the NBA...
Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app
https://grantland.com/features/the-nba-draft-lottery-player-guide/
Kawhi Leonard
Age: 20
Height: 6-7
Weight: 225
San Diego State
Kawhi Leonard is one of the most physically gifted players in this year’s draft pool. With his height, bulk and leaping ability, Leonard looks like he could become the prototypical NBA small forward. Questions remain about his outside shot — he made just 29 percent of his 3s last season — and whether he can create his own shot. His skills might be better suited to play the power forward position, where he’d be seriously undersized at 6-foot-7. Leonard also played passive at times at San Diego State, sometimes disappearing for long stretches of games. The player from this draft he most resembles is Tristan Thompson, another undersized post player who relies on hustle and strength. Of the two, Leonard is shorter but has a better chance at playing the post. He has a 7-3 wingspan and should be good for at least one YouTube-worthy dunk or block per week. If he develops a jumper and improves his ability to finish at the rim, Leonard could become more than just a defensive role player.
CEILING: Gerald Wallace
FLOOR: Ronaldo Balkman
MOST TELLING STAT: Hand measurements (9.8 inches long, 11.3 inches wide)
Anyway, give me 2 picks at 27 and I'll give you 2. We'll circle back.
Dude stop buying into whatever it is you're trying to find. Like I said the vid you originally posted is a fluff peice (hopefully you didn't create it). Nothing about what was mentioned in that vid indicates Bey is the next Kawhi...other than the title of the vid.
What that vid showed is that Beys strength is defense. Folks for some odd reason keep thinking that any wing with a big wingspan that plays defense is the next Kawhi Leonard and continue to fail to understand that Kawhi Leonard is not just a defensive wing with a big wingspan. Just like people that think all it takes to be successful in the NBA today is adding shooters. Its not that simple and formulaic.
As far as challenging me to a bottom first "who's going to be best?" thing? You sure you want to do that lol? I've called some of the best late 1st early 2nd guys in the last 20 drafts. And even then you do realize that that we wouldn't do anything to prove Bey is the next Kawhi right? Bey could turn out to be just like the guy I said he's like (Andre Roberson)and it still be a great pick at the bottom of the 1st. So theoretically we could pick the same guy.
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Orange Mamba wrote:Everyone getting compared to Kawhi now lol
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:Orange Mamba wrote:Everyone getting compared to Kawhi now lol
The NBA is a copycat league and once they find one successful archetype, they'll continue draft guys that are similar in hopes in finding a second. There must have been 5 or more next Dirk's. I have no doubt in my mind that Deni is getting top 5 consideration because of the success of Luka. I wouldn't be shocked if Okoro was getting that same type of hype because of some similarities to Kawhi.
finestrg wrote:robillionaire wrote:finestrg wrote:Happy Easter to all!
Just praying the Knicks give this guy a good look when the time comes. I have too many questions with all the guards in this draft. This guy, meanwhile, continues to feel like a can't miss to me. 6'10" 240 with long arms. Legit C that plays both ends. Already very skilled and esp. offensively, that skill set will only continue to grow (if I drafted this kid, my first order of business would be to get him with the best offensive big man coach I could find -- Hakeem the Dream, if he still does his big man mini-camp instruction, or someone like Carmelo maybe, if he decides to hang it up for good). The rest is instinctual and he does it all well (rebounding, shot-blocking, and he's a real worker, not afraid to get dirty down low). Love everything about him. Cannot believe so many mock drafts out there are undervaluing him the way they are. Complete mystery to me. Just the numbers alone scream lottery pick.
I've been saying a better version of Al Horford all along. Even a Myles Turner/Andre Drummond hybrid with his outside shooting touch paired with the muscle/dirty work/lunch pail inside game -- he's actually already a pretty damn good post player to boot, much better than Andre Drummond). Just read someone on YouTube comparing him to a Hassan Whiteside with a better jumper -- I like that comparison too, think it's accurate. I understand most think he's a reach but to me, if Wiseman and Toppin are off the board, this would be my guy. Just screams quality/production right away COUPLED WITH upside/even higher ceiling to me.
the consensus seems to be he's not a first round pick so if you really like him I feel like we could very comfortably select him with our 27th pick which would not be much of a reach at all (espn and tankathon have him going 33rd in their latest mock) and take another good player along with him using our top 10 pick then you could have two good players instead of him and the 27th pick
I'd be shocked if Oturu was still on the board at 27. Just too impactful a big man prospect to slip that far. In the 2003 draft, Al Horford went 3, and to me, Oturu's an even better prospect coming out of college comparing the two at the same time (Horford didn't show any 3-pt shooting yet at that time and he wasn't much of a shot-blocker --- Oturu has shown both already, same point in their careers). I understand that the '03 draft was pretty weak looking back (Oden never panned out because of his knee troubles, then KD, Horford, and then either a few role players that did pan out but many more that didn't), but still, even if Al Horford was selcted in this draft, I think he'd be a top-10 pick. And I think Oturu, by comparison, is even better at the same point in their careers. This guy is most certainly a 10-top pick.
And I hear ya Rob, I definitely feel like we need to grab 3 good players in this draft. My contention -- take Oturu at 6, I think he's worth the pick there. I think we'd be getting a 20/10+/2 center for the next 10 years. That type of production is worth the 6th pick, bottom line to me. Also bottom line to me, he's much much more of a sure thing than guys like Ball and Anthony... And we could use him too! Who couldn't use a 20/10/2 legit center? Not like we already have that -- we don't. Mitch is a good role player but he'll never be that, let's face it. All of a sudden though -- Oturu, with Mitch and Randle (for however long Randle will be here), plus Gibson and Portis to fortify (that's when I'd bring back Portis for the option year, now he'd make sense to bring back to fortify) -- that's a damn good frontcourt that feels much more complete. A frontcourt that suddenly looks very complete, even with whatever growing pains Oturu might have... Hey, if someone guaranteed me that we could somehow move down several spots from 6 to get Oturu at 15 or so and pick up another pick/another asset or 2 we could use to combine with 27 and/or 36 to move up with those picks, yeah I'd sign up for that. And the players I want there are Saddiq Bey and Devon Dotson. Just no guarantee Oturu would be there anywhere from say 15 down into the 20s. Sorry, I just don't see that. I'd take him at 6, be very comfortable with that pick, and use whatever assets we currently have combined with 27 and 36 to move up with both of those picks to get the other two guys I want. Probably not Rose's plan, but that would be mine.
Zenzibar wrote:jvsimonetti0514 wrote:Orange Mamba wrote:Everyone getting compared to Kawhi now lol
The NBA is a copycat league and once they find one successful archetype, they'll continue draft guys that are similar in hopes in finding a second. There must have been 5 or more next Dirk's. I have no doubt in my mind that Deni is getting top 5 consideration because of the success of Luka. I wouldn't be shocked if Okoro was getting that same type of hype because of some similarities to Kawhi.
Similarly, Trae Young was considered Steph Curry lite.
HEZI wrote:
Not impressed to consider him in the lotto