The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded

Hoops Addict · Post #61 » by **Hoops Addict** » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:07 pm

FAKE NEWS

It's a lie that there is a real feud right?

I call BS......there is no feud.

Donovan was angry that he got Corona, but that is squashed.

Right?

Rauxcee · Post #62 » by **Rauxcee** » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:14 pm

Hoops Addict wrote:FAKE NEWS

It's a lie that there is a real feud right?

I call BS......there is no feud.

Donovan was angry that he got Corona, but that is squashed.

Right?

I would love to think so, but the fact that Gobert, Mitchell, and the Jazz FO haven't denied it is alarming IMO.

Ingles kind of did, but I'd prefer to here it from the horses mouth so to speak.

I will say until social distancing is over, it'll be hard to work on their relationship as they can't sit down and talk it out. It's something that should be handled in person rather than over technology IMO.

Catchall · Post #63 » by **Catchall** » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:48 pm

Rauxcee wrote:
Hoops Addict wrote:FAKE NEWS

It's a lie that there is a real feud right?

I call BS......there is no feud.

Donovan was angry that he got Corona, but that is squashed.

Right?

I would love to think so, but the fact that Gobert, Mitchell, and the Jazz FO haven't denied it is alarming IMO.

Ingles kind of did, but I'd prefer to here it from the horses mouth so to speak.

I will say until social distancing is over, it'll be hard to work on their relationship as they can't sit down and talk it out. It's something that should be handled in person rather than over technology IMO.

I think Mitchell is pissed at Gobert's casual behavior, and I think Gobert is just a bit embarrassed by the whole thing and would like it to blow over. But I think it will blow over in time. I'd be surprised if the team got broken up over this, when there are more than a dozen players in the league that got the virus.

ProcessDoctor · Post #64 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:57 am

Sixers fan in peace. If you decide to move Mitchell, would this interest you?

Harris + Richardson + OKC 2020 1st (#22) + PHI 2022 1st (unprotected) for Mitchell + Conley

Clarkson(28)/Mudiay(16)/Ingles(4)
Richardson(30)/Ingles(18)
O'Neale(28)/Bojan(14)/Ingles(6)
Harris(34)/Bojan(14)
Gobert(34)/Bradley(14)

Gives you two win-now players entering their prime and in the same age group as your other starters. The OKC 1st (and your own 1st) could be used to bolster the PG position.

AingesBurner · Post #65 » by **AingesBurner** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:07 am

ProcessDoctor wrote:Sixers fan in peace. If you decide to move Mitchell, would this interest you?

Harris + Richardson + OKC 2020 1st (#22) + PHI 2022 1st (unprotected) for Mitchell + Conley

Clarkson(28)/Mudiay(16)/Ingles(4)
Richardson(30)/Ingles(18)
O'Neale(28)/Bojan(14)/Ingles(6)
Harris(34)/Bojan(14)
Gobert(34)/Bradley(14)

Gives you two win-now players entering their prime and in the same age group as your other starters. The OKC 1st (and your own 1st) could be used to bolster the PG position.

No, Mitchell to us equal’s Simmons.

ProcessDoctor · Post #66 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:21 am

GobertReport wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:Sixers fan in peace. If you decide to move Mitchell, would this interest you?

Harris + Richardson + OKC 2020 1st (#22) + PHI 2022 1st (unprotected) for Mitchell + Conley

Clarkson(28)/Mudiay(16)/Ingles(4)
Richardson(30)/Ingles(18)
O'Neale(28)/Bojan(14)/Ingles(6)
Harris(34)/Bojan(14)
Gobert(34)/Bradley(14)

Gives you two win-now players entering their prime and in the same age group as your other starters. The OKC 1st (and your own 1st) could be used to bolster the PG position.

No, Mitchell to us equal’s Simmons.

Do you think Mitchell is as good or impactful as Simmons? Or are you saying he's as valuable to your franchise as Simmons is to Philly? Just to clarify so I understand where you're coming from.

AingesBurner · Post #67 » by **AingesBurner** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:23 am

ProcessDoctor wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:Sixers fan in peace. If you decide to move Mitchell, would this interest you?

Harris + Richardson + OKC 2020 1st (#22) + PHI 2022 1st (unprotected) for Mitchell + Conley

Clarkson(28)/Mudiay(16)/Ingles(4)
Richardson(30)/Ingles(18)
O'Neale(28)/Bojan(14)/Ingles(6)
Harris(34)/Bojan(14)
Gobert(34)/Bradley(14)

Gives you two win-now players entering their prime and in the same age group as your other starters. The OKC 1st (and your own 1st) could be used to bolster the PG position.

No, Mitchell to us equal’s Simmons.

Do you think Mitchell is as good or impactful as Simmons? Or are you saying he's as valuable to your franchise as Simmons is to Philly? Just to clarify so I understand where you're coming from.

Both.

Crunch 99 · Post #68 » by **Crunch 99** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:02 pm

Tom349 wrote:Ingles and Gobert taking the piss out of the article on twitter so either there is nothing in it or the leak is on Donovans end. Thus making Donovan the rotten egg and the guy to go but most likely there is nothing in it. The only other possible explanation is Rudy wants out for other reasons and the Jazz PR team are using this excuse rather than basketball reasons which makes more a easier trade.

Gobert downplayed the feud yesterday in this ESPN video and and article below. There also was a story at Yahoo Sports yesterday. I suspect the feud story has taken on a much bigger life than is warranted while there are no games being played.

The discussion here concerning the challenges of building around a future supermax Gobert and max Donovan is interesting and worthwhile to have in any case, but my guess is that these guys don't have an irreparable relationship.

ESPN Video clip of Gobert talking yesterday:
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=29027263

Accompanying story:
Rudy Gobert downplays rift with Donovan Mitchell, says they've talked
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29027045/rudy-gobert-downplays-rift-donovan-mitchell-says-talked

After phone call with Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert says their relationship is getting better
https://sports.yahoo.com/rudy-gobert-donovan-mitchell-jazz-coronavirus-relationship-nba-034221565.html

ProcessDoctor · Post #69 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:07 pm

GobertReport wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:
GobertReport wrote:

No, Mitchell to us equal’s Simmons.

Do you think Mitchell is as good or impactful as Simmons? Or are you saying he's as valuable to your franchise as Simmons is to Philly? Just to clarify so I understand where you're coming from.

Both.

Yikes, I thought the days of this kind of thinking were over. I don’t know of any reference that suggests Donovan has that great of an on-court impact.

stitches · Post #70 » by **stitches** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:21 pm

Read on Twitter

Maybe it's not THAT unsalvageable?

AingesBurner · Post #71 » by **AingesBurner** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:43 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:
Do you think Mitchell is as good or impactful as Simmons? Or are you saying he's as valuable to your franchise as Simmons is to Philly? Just to clarify so I understand where you're coming from.

Both.

Yikes, I thought the days of this kind of thinking were over. I don’t know of any reference that suggests Donovan has that great of an on-court impact.

But you understand that Simmons is the only player we would trade Mitchell for right?

eLo · Post #72 » by **eLo** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:21 pm

im seriously surprised that majority, slight but yet

think we should go with Mitchell instead of Gob. Ok Gob as a leader wont win in this league but he is truly great in what he is doing, and Mitchell ... he is stat filler at its best, if Jazz will go wit him and with his future max contract, this team will suck for years to come, and Mitchell wont stay for another deal as he will seek some better environment for wining

vryadli · Post #73 » by **vryadli** » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:06 am

So DM went along DWill steps.... There were signs. of course, but I never thought it will come out so ugly. For the one, DWill on the peak was much greater power on the court, he really can change outcomes by himself. If Donovan is thinking that he is on the same level as a player, he is in for bad awakening (and some his fans too).

vryadli · Post #74 » by **vryadli** » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:59 am

...yes, after I read all comments and reflect on times when DWill tried to shift AK to the back seat... that smells just the same. No passing to the object, inexplicable hero balling etc. (I wrote number of time that it smells of bad chemistry problems, but thought it was related to Quinn approach to games.Now we know better.)

And yes, fiery Rudy is not a gentle AK who just sit in tears when treated unfairly. If one want to call him a diva for that, that's OK, we are in a democratic country with a freedom of speech.

So, it doesn't matter how it will be downplayed by involved party, Jazz is in for long terrible ugly story. May be Jazz will manage to wrap this season without major disgrace, but then it is only downhill path for something like decade.

And by the way, which young player of Rudy caliber in sane mind will stick with Jazz for long time - if fabled Jazz loyalty, chemistry and fighting spirit will go out of window?

KqWIN · Post #75 » by **KqWIN** » Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:24 am

From listening to podcasts ect it really seems like there was beef before covid. It's not surprising, to my eye it was quite obvious. Rudy stopped playing defense and pouted because his teammates are egregious ball hogs. I subscribe to the theory that this covid situation accelerated the beef and heightened it in some ways, but there was beef with our without the pandemic.

Not sure sure how that effects the potential for this to be resolved.

vryadli · Post #76 » by **vryadli** » Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:27 am

ProcessDoctor wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:
Do you think Mitchell is as good or impactful as Simmons? Or are you saying he's as valuable to your franchise as Simmons is to Philly? Just to clarify so I understand where you're coming from.

Both.

Yikes, I thought the days of this kind of thinking were over. I don’t know of any reference that suggests Donovan has that great of an on-court impact.

But same thing for Simmons, right? Both are not especially efficient players and values like on/off are close and quite modest. And does Simmons has something funny going with Embiid?

ProcessDoctor · Post #77 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:58 am

vryadli wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
Both.

Yikes, I thought the days of this kind of thinking were over. I don’t know of any reference that suggests Donovan has that great of an on-court impact.

But same thing for Simmons, right? Both are not especially efficient players and values like on/off are close and quite modest. And does Simmons has something funny going with Embiid?

DM: 45.3% FG, 36.4% 3P, 85.9% FT, 56.0% TS, ORTG 110, DRTG 111, 0.115 WS/48, 1.9 BPM, 0.40 RPM, 0.2 RAPTOR

BS: 58.5% FG, 33.3% 3P, 62.7% FT, 60.8% TS, ORTG 116, DRTG 105, 0.174 WS/48, 3.9 BPM, 2.21 RPM, 2.4 RAPTOR

These two players are not in the same class.

The Joel-Ben "something funny" is BSPN fluff. They constantly praise each other and express how much they like playing together.

vryadli · Post #78 » by **vryadli** » Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:38 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:
vryadli wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:
Yikes, I thought the days of this kind of thinking were over. I don’t know of any reference that suggests Donovan has that great of an on-court impact.

But same thing for Simmons, right? Both are not especially efficient players and values like on/off are close and quite modest. And does Simmons has something funny going with Embiid?

DM: 45.3% FG, 36.4% 3P, 85.9% FT, 56.0% TS, ORTG 110, DRTG 111, 0.115 WS/48, 1.9 BPM, 0.40 RPM, 0.2 RAPTOR

BS: 58.5% FG, 33.3% 3P, 62.7% FT, 60.8% TS, ORTG 116, DRTG 105, 0.174 WS/48, 3.9 BPM, 2.21 RPM, 2.4 RAPTOR

These two players are not in the same class.

The Joel-Ben "something funny" is BSPN fluff. They constantly praise each other and express how much they like playing together.

Then your classes are of to fine grading. For me these differences don't move a needle. Players of real impact starts from raptor 4, being 57-th hardly is sign of the stardom. Yes DM is twice lower - 118, but both are in that is the middle of the crowd. And by the way, Rudy has 6.3 on 7-th place.... and Embiid 17-th... so, you see? difference in DM/BS pair is not espesially significant when compared do difference between them and R/E pair.

ProcessDoctor · Post #79 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:56 pm

vryadli wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:
vryadli wrote:
But same thing for Simmons, right? Both are not especially efficient players and values like on/off are close and quite modest. And does Simmons has something funny going with Embiid?

DM: 45.3% FG, 36.4% 3P, 85.9% FT, 56.0% TS, ORTG 110, DRTG 111, 0.115 WS/48, 1.9 BPM, 0.40 RPM, 0.2 RAPTOR

BS: 58.5% FG, 33.3% 3P, 62.7% FT, 60.8% TS, ORTG 116, DRTG 105, 0.174 WS/48, 3.9 BPM, 2.21 RPM, 2.4 RAPTOR

These two players are not in the same class.

The Joel-Ben "something funny" is BSPN fluff. They constantly praise each other and express how much they like playing together.

Then your classes are of to fine grading. For me these differences don't move a needle. Players of real impact starts from raptor 4, being 57-th hardly is sign of the stardom. Yes DM is twice lower - 118, but both are in that is the middle of the crowd. And by the way, Rudy has 6.3 on 7-th place.... and Embiid 17-th... so, you see? difference in DM/BS pair is not espesially significant when compared do difference between them and R/E pair.

If you don’t think the numbers I shared demonstrate a significant gap between them, then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Crunch 99 · Post #80 » by **Crunch 99** » Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:02 pm

I wonder if some small part of this DM - Gobert feud was about DM protecting his brand? With branding in mind, it could have been a consideration at the time to feed the narrative that Gobert, not DM, was coronavirus patient zero in the NBA.

In light of the ensuing wide spread of the virus across America, including likely asymptomatic spread, who is the alleged patient zero in the NBA rightfully lost news cycle relevance, but at the time, it was a big deal --- the person and event that shut down the NBA. And Rudy might always be thought of as NBA patient zero.

I am not claiming that if branding entered Donovan's mind, it was a terrible thing. Nobody knows whether Rudy spread the virus to Donovan, Donovan spread it to Rudy or none of the above, but Rudy nonetheless earned some criticism by not taking his potential to be a spreader seriously. On the other hand, DM visited an area of NYC when the Jazz played the Knicks, that once testing ramped up, turned out to be an epicenter of the virus, so DM may have caught the virus first. We will never know.

Who would you KEEP?