2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

[RHODEY]

If we get 7-8, and assume hayes was gone (or let's just say if the knicks were too cowardly to take the gamble on hayes or didn't want to draft another french guard) I think I'd take Hampton over Cole and Haliburton as I think he's got more upside. I really wouldn't want to take either of Cole or Haliburton and would consider one of the other prospects if they are still on the board like avdija, okongwu, toppin as well.

If they pass on Hayes @ 7-8 just might be ready to to give up on this squad. 1-4 for Lamelo is understandable but after that is inexcusable in my book.

[malik959]

So you are conceding that Cole Anthony can't defend college PG's and that because of Mitch Robinson, who averages only 23 mpg in part because he's still foul prone, will make up for it? Is his offense really that dominant to make up for what you are basically implying is terrible defense?

OK first off Cole is no way a bad defender and actually he's a pretty good defender. All I was saying is all Cole needs to do is stay in front of his opponent, he does not need to gamble.

Gotta disagree here, he's quite terrible on defense

He can have some really nice defensive plays but for the most part he sucks at it. It is what it is, I still like his productivity and talent on offense but going into the league he's not somebody I would bank on being a good or even solid defender. He's going to have to get much better there.

He's not a player who has great size, strength, and length and he tends to gamble quite a bit, but his lateral movement is impressive. he has the ability to stay in front of his man but can be over powered by guards larger than him. He is a good defender but being on a team like NC where your team needs you on the court most coaches would tell you to back off, save energy, don't reach........ The main thing Cole needs to improve is his consistency on both ends of the floor. He doesn't need to overhaul his shot like Ball or Haliburton and he's not going to hurt you on defense like Ball. He's also very explosive similar to a young Derek Rose. Unlike DSJ, who everyone tends to compair him with, he can create for himself, hits a high clip on catch and shoot, and isn't so weak minded that you become afraid to play under the big lights of New York City. We need strong minded players on this team!

[jvsimonetti0514]

Cole was only able to beat the worst teams in the country. They started the season playing horrible teams which is why there is more wins with Cole. When Cole went up against legit competition he was terrible and he did not help his team mates get better.

I decided to take a look at the wins of when he played. UNC had wins at Notre Dame, Alabama, Oregon, NCST, Syracuse, and Virginia Tech are wins against teams with .500 and above records. Not to mention a handful of one possession losses against Duke, Virginia, and Notre Dame. So more than half of the wins with him on the court were against winning teams. It's fine to not like Cole, he's super flawed, just don't make things up.

Incorrect. Elon Phoenix was 7-11. Alabama is 8-10. Wake Forest is 6-14. UNC Wilmington is 5-13. Notre Dame was 10-10. Syracuse 10-10, Virginia Tech 10-10. So more than half of his wins came from teams that were 0.500 and below. Those are NON winning teams. Nobody considers a .500 team a winning team. Its fine to like Cole, but lets not rewrite history here.

It's also worth noting that he's played some of those teams twice and lost to them as well (Syracuse, Wake, ND). There's really no evidence that shows that Cole is a winning player or makes his team mates better.

Alabama (16-15) Notre Dame(20-12) Cuse(18-14) Va Tech (16-16). Since when do non conference games not count toward college teams records?

[jvsimonetti0514]

Read on Twitter

can't wait to spend months more fighting about him

[robillionaire]

I decided to take a look at the wins of when he played. UNC had wins at Notre Dame, Alabama, Oregon, NCST, Syracuse, and Virginia Tech are wins against teams with .500 and above records. Not to mention a handful of one possession losses against Duke, Virginia, and Notre Dame. So more than half of the wins with him on the court were against winning teams. It's fine to not like Cole, he's super flawed, just don't make things up.

Incorrect. Elon Phoenix was 7-11. Alabama is 8-10. Wake Forest is 6-14. UNC Wilmington is 5-13. Notre Dame was 10-10. Syracuse 10-10, Virginia Tech 10-10. So more than half of his wins came from teams that were 0.500 and below. Those are NON winning teams. Nobody considers a .500 team a winning team. Its fine to like Cole, but lets not rewrite history here.

It's also worth noting that he's played some of those teams twice and lost to them as well (Syracuse, Wake, ND). There's really no evidence that shows that Cole is a winning player or makes his team mates better.

Alabama (16-15) Notre Dame(20-12) Cuse(18-14) Va Tech (16-16). Since when do non conference games not count toward college teams records?

None of those teams were good or going to the ncaa tournament. a .500 record in the NCAA isn't the same as a .500 record in the nba each school plays a handful of cupcake teams in non-conference games to pad their records. they do count but they aren't anything I'd consider impressive or "winning teams" Va Tech was 7-13 in conference play. They aren't a good team. With that said they were still better than Cole's 14-19 team that was 6-14 in the conference so I guess you could call it an upset victory by one bad team over another

the impressive victory would have been if they could have closed out that game against duke, even though they choked I was still impressed by that effort, and they beat Oregon who finished ranked 13th. That's all I'll give him

[HEZI]

OK first off Cole is no way a bad defender and actually he's a pretty good defender. All I was saying is all Cole needs to do is stay in front of his opponent, he does not need to gamble.

Gotta disagree here, he's quite terrible on defense

He can have some really nice defensive plays but for the most part he sucks at it. It is what it is, I still like his productivity and talent on offense but going into the league he's not somebody I would bank on being a good or even solid defender. He's going to have to get much better there.

He's not a player who has great size, strength, and length and he tends to gamble quite a bit, but his lateral movement is impressive. he has the ability to stay in front of his man but can be over powered by guards larger than him. He is a good defender but being on a team like NC where your team needs you on the court most coaches would tell you to back off, save energy, don't reach........ The main thing Cole needs to improve is his consistency on both ends of the floor. He doesn't need to overhaul his shot like Ball or Haliburton and he's not going to hurt you on defense like Ball. He's also very explosive similar to a young Derek Rose. Unlike DSJ, who everyone tends to compair him with, he can create for himself, hits a high clip on catch and shoot, and isn't so weak minded that you become afraid to play under the big lights of New York City. We need strong minded players on this team!

He tends to get blown by pretty easily at times and his pick and roll defense is just not good. He's pretty solid when it comes to rotation and knowing when to help over and recover but overall I don't see him being a big impact defender. He's going to need help from his teammates in that area. That's just the defensive side though, offensively I like what he would add to the team. Much better than DSJ that's for sure

[3toheadmelo]

Incorrect. Elon Phoenix was 7-11. Alabama is 8-10. Wake Forest is 6-14. UNC Wilmington is 5-13. Notre Dame was 10-10. Syracuse 10-10, Virginia Tech 10-10. So more than half of his wins came from teams that were 0.500 and below. Those are NON winning teams. Nobody considers a .500 team a winning team. Its fine to like Cole, but lets not rewrite history here.

It's also worth noting that he's played some of those teams twice and lost to them as well (Syracuse, Wake, ND). There's really no evidence that shows that Cole is a winning player or makes his team mates better.

Alabama (16-15) Notre Dame(20-12) Cuse(18-14) Va Tech (16-16). Since when do non conference games not count toward college teams records?

None of those teams were good or going to the ncaa tournament. a .500 record in the NCAA isn't the same as a .500 record in the nba each school plays a handful of cupcake teams in non-conference games to pad their records. they do count but they aren't anything I'd consider impressive or "winning teams" Va Tech was 7-13 in conference play. They aren't a good team. With that said they were still better than Cole's 14-19 team that was 6-14 in the conference so I guess you could call it an upset victory by one bad team over another

the impressive victory would have been if they could have closed out that game against duke, even though they choked I was still impressed by that effort, and they beat Oregon who finished ranked 13th. That's all I'll give him

Facts

[robillionaire]

I'm watching youtube and it randomly has pulled basketball games, watched the Duke UCF game from last tournament, UCF had a 3 point lead with 15 seconds left and managed to lose. Crazy that a team with Zion, RJ, Reddish and another upcoming 1st round pick in Tre Jones could not get it done, having dodged a bullet with Tacko and then losing the following game

[jvsimonetti0514]

Incorrect. Elon Phoenix was 7-11. Alabama is 8-10. Wake Forest is 6-14. UNC Wilmington is 5-13. Notre Dame was 10-10. Syracuse 10-10, Virginia Tech 10-10. So more than half of his wins came from teams that were 0.500 and below. Those are NON winning teams. Nobody considers a .500 team a winning team. Its fine to like Cole, but lets not rewrite history here.

It's also worth noting that he's played some of those teams twice and lost to them as well (Syracuse, Wake, ND). There's really no evidence that shows that Cole is a winning player or makes his team mates better.

Alabama (16-15) Notre Dame(20-12) Cuse(18-14) Va Tech (16-16). Since when do non conference games not count toward college teams records?

None of those teams were good or going to the ncaa tournament. a .500 record in the NCAA isn't the same as a .500 record in the nba each school plays a handful of cupcake teams in non-conference games to pad their records. they do count but they aren't anything I'd consider impressive or "winning teams" Va Tech was 7-13 in conference play. They aren't a good team. With that said they were still better than Cole's 14-19 team that was 6-14 in the conference so I guess you could call it an upset victory by one bad team over another

the impressive victory would have been if they could have closed out that game against duke, even though they choked I was still impressed by that effort, and they beat Oregon who finished ranked 13th. That's all I'll give him

Last year, 7 ACC teams made the tourney. I have no reason to think that they couldn't do that again and Cuse and ND would be the 6th+7th team in from the ACC. Of course all teams play some bad non conference games but they also play elite teams from other conferences too. Notre dame and Cuse are big name universities, I wouldn't assume their non conference schedule is a complete joke. There's no good reason to only look at conference play when judging college teams records. I never said the UNC was a good team or Cole is a great player. They were just better when he played than when he was injured.

[robillionaire]

Alabama (16-15) Notre Dame(20-12) Cuse(18-14) Va Tech (16-16). Since when do non conference games not count toward college teams records?

None of those teams were good or going to the ncaa tournament. a .500 record in the NCAA isn't the same as a .500 record in the nba each school plays a handful of cupcake teams in non-conference games to pad their records. they do count but they aren't anything I'd consider impressive or "winning teams" Va Tech was 7-13 in conference play. They aren't a good team. With that said they were still better than Cole's 14-19 team that was 6-14 in the conference so I guess you could call it an upset victory by one bad team over another

the impressive victory would have been if they could have closed out that game against duke, even though they choked I was still impressed by that effort, and they beat Oregon who finished ranked 13th. That's all I'll give him

Last year, 7 ACC teams made the tourney. I have no reason to think that they couldn't do that again and Cuse and ND would be the 6th+7th team in from the ACC. Of course all teams play some bad non conference games but they also play elite teams from other conferences too. Notre dame and Cuse are big name universities, I wouldn't assume their non conference schedule is a complete joke. There's no good reason to only look at conference play when judging college teams records. I never said the UNC was a good team or Cole is a great player. They were just better when he played than when he was injured.

They did play better when he played, I agree. Also as far as Syracuse goes the last game of the season in the ACC tournament they lost by 28 to syracuse. cole played 37 minutes and 5 points on 2/10 shooting with 3 assists and 6 turnovers. Gotta take the bad with the good too I guess

[DaGawd]

I'm watching youtube and it randomly has pulled basketball games, watched the Duke UCF game from last tournament, UCF had a 3 point lead with 15 seconds left and managed to lose. Crazy that a team with Zion, RJ, Reddish and another upcoming 1st round pick in Tre Jones could not get it done, having dodged a bullet with Tacko and then losing the following game

I still don't know how Towns' Kentucky team didn't win it all

[robillionaire]

I'm watching youtube and it randomly has pulled basketball games, watched the Duke UCF game from last tournament, UCF had a 3 point lead with 15 seconds left and managed to lose. Crazy that a team with Zion, RJ, Reddish and another upcoming 1st round pick in Tre Jones could not get it done, having dodged a bullet with Tacko and then losing the following game

I still don't know how Towns' Kentucky team didn't win it all

I give credit to the Wisconsin team that knocked them out in the final four. They were more experienced and battle tested from making it to the final four the prior year and it worked out to their advantage. Frank Kaminsky was a great NCAA player. That's the thing about ncaa, all it takes is one bad game in march and you're done. Personally the Wall Cousins Bledsoe Patrick Patterson 2010 year where they had a fluke loss to west virginia was an even bigger disappointment to me, that team should have been unstoppable

[HEZI]

This draft is looking very similar to the 2017 draft and not just because there is a Ball brother in it lol

But it does have a lot of guard depth and some overhyped and some underrated.

2017 draft gave us lotto busts such as Fultz, Josh Jackson, Frank Ntilikina, DSJ, Malik Monk. Luke Kennard is solid. It also gave us some nice talent such as Tatum, Fox, Isaac, Markkanen, Donovan Mitchell and Bam Adebayo. Outside the lotto we also got players like John Collins, Jarrett Allen, OG Anunoby, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, Derrick White, Damyean Dotson, Thomas Bryant, Monte Morris, Dillon Brooks.

This draft looks very similar to that, the way it's set up and the talent pool

[robillionaire]

This draft is looking very similar to the 2017 draft and not just because there is a Ball brother in it lol

But it does have a lot of guard depth and some overhyped and some underrated.

2017 draft gave us lotto busts such as Fultz, Josh Jackson, Frank Ntilikina, DSJ, Malik Monk. Luke Kennard is solid. It also gave us some nice talent such as Tatum, Fox, Isaac, Markkanen, Donovan Mitchell and Bam Adebayo. Outside the lotto we also got players like John Collins, Jarrett Allen, OG Anunoby, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, Derrick White, Damyean Dotson, Thomas Bryant, Monte Morris, Dillon Brooks.

This draft looks very similar to that, the way it's set up and the talent pool

Yeah I can see that. I was going to say more like 2013 or 2014, you may have a Wiggins disappointment or complete bust like Anthony Bennett at the top and a ton of busts. I don't even think we'll get the talent level that came out of the 2017 draft. Maybe you get one mega steal that everyone is overlooking like giannis in 2013 or maybe wiseman is the embiid of the draft like 2014 and some unknown euro breaks out like Jokic did when nobody saw it coming and everyone else busts out

I hope I'm wrong. Nobody in this draft looks completely bust proof

[HEZI]

This draft is looking very similar to the 2017 draft and not just because there is a Ball brother in it lol

But it does have a lot of guard depth and some overhyped and some underrated.

2017 draft gave us lotto busts such as Fultz, Josh Jackson, Frank Ntilikina, DSJ, Malik Monk. Luke Kennard is solid. It also gave us some nice talent such as Tatum, Fox, Isaac, Markkanen, Donovan Mitchell and Bam Adebayo. Outside the lotto we also got players like John Collins, Jarrett Allen, OG Anunoby, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, Derrick White, Damyean Dotson, Thomas Bryant, Monte Morris, Dillon Brooks.

This draft looks very similar to that, the way it's set up and the talent pool

Yeah I can see that. I was going to say more like 2013 or 2014, you may have a Wiggins disappointment or complete bust like Anthony Bennett at the top and a ton of busts. I don't even think we'll get the talent level that came out of the 2017 draft. Maybe you get one mega steal that everyone is overlooking like giannis in 2013 or maybe wiseman is the embiid of the draft like 2014 and some unknown euro breaks out like Jokic did when nobody saw it coming and everyone else busts out

I hope I'm wrong. Nobody in this draft looks completely bust proof

I think it's going to be a good draft class. I look at a guy like Obi and I see no reason why he doesn't give a team John Collins type of production. Very little doubt about Obi becoming a really good NBA player especially if he lands on the right team but I just don't see the Knicks taking him. They are very likely taking a guard as they should but Obi is a safe bet imo. Edwards is like Fultz and really what messed Fultz up was that motorcycle accident that damaged his nerve. If not for that I think Fultz would have been an NBA star right now. Hopefully nothing like that happens to anybody else, so I can see Edwards becoming that which Fultz was supposed to be, which essentially is what Tatum has become. Lamelo is another version of his brother but maybe he becomes more than that and there is a chance that he just might. Haliburton might end up being this years Isaac (obviously different positions) but in terms of defensive impact and ability to play a starting role on a playoff team I can see Haliburton being that guy where he's not a star player but still a guy you would love to have on your team. Cole Anthony could end up being anything from DSJ to Donovan Mitchell but chances are he becomes something in between so maybe somewhere in the DeAaron Fox category (different style of play but you get what I'm saying). Wiseman probably reaches Bam Adobayo level. Is Avdija this years Lauri? Personaly I'm not high on Avdija and he looks like a bust to me but who knows? Maybe he does pan out for somebody and becomes a nice player. He could be this years Luke Kennard maybe? Killian Hayes is probably the guy I look at as this years Lauri, somebody that got slept on but turns out to be one of the better players from the draft class. Then there are a bunch of other guys like Okoro, Hampton, Josh Green, Tre Jones, etc. who all have the potential to become major contributors that could be slept on right now just like how Donovan Mitchell was so we could see a stud emerge from that group.

[malik959]

This draft is looking very similar to the 2017 draft and not just because there is a Ball brother in it lol

But it does have a lot of guard depth and some overhyped and some underrated.

2017 draft gave us lotto busts such as Fultz, Josh Jackson, Frank Ntilikina, DSJ, Malik Monk. Luke Kennard is solid. It also gave us some nice talent such as Tatum, Fox, Isaac, Markkanen, Donovan Mitchell and Bam Adebayo. Outside the lotto we also got players like John Collins, Jarrett Allen, OG Anunoby, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, Derrick White, Damyean Dotson, Thomas Bryant, Monte Morris, Dillon Brooks.

This draft looks very similar to that, the way it's set up and the talent pool

Yeah I can see that. I was going to say more like 2013 or 2014, you may have a Wiggins disappointment or complete bust like Anthony Bennett at the top and a ton of busts. I don't even think we'll get the talent level that came out of the 2017 draft. Maybe you get one mega steal that everyone is overlooking like giannis in 2013 or maybe wiseman is the embiid of the draft like 2014 and some unknown euro breaks out like Jokic did when nobody saw it coming and everyone else busts out

I hope I'm wrong. Nobody in this draft looks completely bust proof

Yeah I must say I'm glad we're at 6th because 5th-7th is actually a safe zone in this draft. I mean we can go with a guard (Hayes/Cole/Haliburton) or Forward (Onyeka/Okoro/Avdija/Toppin) and still be in good shape. We might argue about position of need over best available, but any one of these players can bring a positive outlook to our team.

I can actually say though that I'm more excited about our 27th pick ( Don't know why NBADraft still has us at 25th) With players like Pat Williams, Precious, Tyler Bay, Nesmith, Saddiq Bay, and Jalen Smith I feel that they are very skilled players that can possibly become special players.

"I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career, skills that make me a nightmare for people like you."

Not to forget Cassius Stanley, who could fall to our second rd pick, although I wouldn't mind having him at 27th.

[malik959]

This draft is looking very similar to the 2017 draft and not just because there is a Ball brother in it lol

But it does have a lot of guard depth and some overhyped and some underrated.

2017 draft gave us lotto busts such as Fultz, Josh Jackson, Frank Ntilikina, DSJ, Malik Monk. Luke Kennard is solid. It also gave us some nice talent such as Tatum, Fox, Isaac, Markkanen, Donovan Mitchell and Bam Adebayo. Outside the lotto we also got players like John Collins, Jarrett Allen, OG Anunoby, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, Derrick White, Damyean Dotson, Thomas Bryant, Monte Morris, Dillon Brooks.

This draft looks very similar to that, the way it's set up and the talent pool

Yeah I can see that. I was going to say more like 2013 or 2014, you may have a Wiggins disappointment or complete bust like Anthony Bennett at the top and a ton of busts. I don't even think we'll get the talent level that came out of the 2017 draft. Maybe you get one mega steal that everyone is overlooking like giannis in 2013 or maybe wiseman is the embiid of the draft like 2014 and some unknown euro breaks out like Jokic did when nobody saw it coming and everyone else busts out

I hope I'm wrong. Nobody in this draft looks completely bust proof

I think it's going to be a good draft class. I look at a guy like Obi and I see no reason why he doesn't give a team John Collins type of production. Very little doubt about Obi becoming a really good NBA player especially if he lands on the right team but I just don't see the Knicks taking him. They are very likely taking a guard as they should but Obi is a safe bet imo. Edwards is like Fultz and really what messed Fultz up was that motorcycle accident that damaged his nerve. If not for that I think Fultz would have been an NBA star right now. Hopefully nothing like that happens to anybody else, so I can see Edwards becoming that which Fultz was supposed to be, which essentially is what Tatum has become. Lamelo is another version of his brother but maybe he becomes more than that and there is a chance that he just might. Haliburton might end up being this years Isaac (obviously different positions) but in terms of defensive impact and ability to play a starting role on a playoff team I can see Haliburton being that guy where he's not a star player but still a guy you would love to have on your team. Cole Anthony could end up being anything from DSJ to Donovan Mitchell but chances are he becomes something in between so maybe somewhere in the DeAaron Fox category (different style of play but you get what I'm saying). Wiseman probably reaches Bam Adobayo level. Is Avdija this years Lauri? Personaly I'm not high on Avdija and he looks like a bust to me but who knows? Maybe he does pan out for somebody and becomes a nice player. He could be this years Luke Kennard maybe? Killian Hayes is probably the guy I look at as this years Lauri, somebody that got slept on but turns out to be one of the better players from the draft class. Then there are a bunch of other guys like Okoro, Hampton, Josh Green, Tre Jones, etc. who all have the potential to become major contributors that could be slept on right now just like how Donovan Mitchell was so we could see a stud emerge from that group.

Damn you got your post out before me and basically said the same sh!+!

[3toheadmelo]

If we dont get Payton Pritchard I want this guy

Watch on YouTube

[Knicksfan1992]

Lets say the Knicks don't come away with a PG with their top 10 pick and Cole is still on the board at like 15-20 range... Would you guys be opposed to attaching a Dallas pick with the 27 to nab him?

I think it's something we should think about....

[mpharris36]

Lets say the Knicks don't come away with a PG with their top 10 pick and Cole is still on the board at like 15-20 range... Would you guys be opposed to attaching a Dallas pick with the 27 to nab him?

I think it's something we should think about....

if they don't have conviction to pick Cole Anthony 6th, 7th, or 8th...they shouldn't be using extra assets to pick him later.

They probably should just use one of those Dallas picks to move up from 7 or 8 and draft the Hayes if that the PG they want and they believe he is going to be picked before they pick.