2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

[RHODEY]

That's still better than taking a bust. A star player with bad defensive instincts is still a star player. A bust is just a wasted pick.

But I don't see it as either Obi or bust. And if he becomes "Glen Robinson" (remember him?) of the Knicks I would rather not have that kind of "Star" player. I would take a high end rolepalyer( Haliburton?) over that.

If we cant get a two way player , lets at least get someone who is a net positive. Towns is barely that even with his amazing offensive prowess. Do you think Obi Will be as good as Towns on offense? Even if he is,what good will that do us if his defense is so horrible bad that teams target him to go at? We'd have to build around his deficiencies.

Its just not how I would want to build this team.

I'm talking about a sure things vs. missing on a pick completely. Idk if he ever becomes the shooter that Towns is but he's definitely got the tools be a good NBA big with All Star potential. He's going to be in that John Collins/Domantas Sabonis category of bigs

On offense I could see that, but dude routinely ot pushed around by bigs on the college level...and he's already 22... that really concerns me.

[HEZI]

But I don't see it as either Obi or bust. And if he becomes "Glen Robinson" (remember him?) of the Knicks I would rather not have that kind of "Star" player. I would take a high end rolepalyer( Haliburton?) over that.

If we cant get a two way player , lets at least get someone who is a net positive. Towns is barely that even with his amazing offensive prowess. Do you think Obi Will be as good as Towns on offense? Even if he is,what good will that do us if his defense is so horrible bad that teams target him to go at? We'd have to build around his deficiencies.

Its just not how I would want to build this team.

I'm talking about a sure things vs. missing on a pick completely. Idk if he ever becomes the shooter that Towns is but he's definitely got the tools be a good NBA big with All Star potential. He's going to be in that John Collins/Domantas Sabonis category of bigs

On offense I could see that, but dude routinely ot pushed around by bigs on the college level...and he's already 22... that really concerns me.

Who cares? He pushes dudes around back and would be a match up nightmare for opponents. He's a stud. He's 22 and again I ask, who cares? He's one month older than Mitchell Robinson, less than a year older than Frank Ntilikina and just 2 years older than RJ Barrett. He's 22 not 32 lets get real.

[robillionaire]

Toppin at PF doesn’t seem like he’d move the needle much from Julius Randle especially since they seem to have a lot of the same downsides not being outside shooters and defense. I’m pretty confident he’ll make it in the nba in some role or another but I don’t know if he’s a sure fire star I look at him about the same as Brandon Clarke from last year who also was a solid NBA ready player but maybe not a ton of upside

[RHODEY]

I'm talking about a sure things vs. missing on a pick completely. Idk if he ever becomes the shooter that Towns is but he's definitely got the tools be a good NBA big with All Star potential. He's going to be in that John Collins/Domantas Sabonis category of bigs

On offense I could see that, but dude routinely ot pushed around by bigs on the college level...and he's already 22... that really concerns me.

Who cares? He pushes dudes around back and would be a match up nightmare for opponents. He's a stud. He's 22 and again I ask, who cares? He's one month older than Mitchell Robinson, less than a year older than Frank Ntilikina and just 2 years older than RJ Barrett. He's 22 not 32 lets get real.

Point about his age is the fact that he's dominating younger less physically mature players now... he'll be facing grown men when he gets to the league. Regarding who cares? I do if he ends up being the next Ends Kanter 2.0 from the PF position.

[Zenzibar]

On offense I could see that, but dude routinely ot pushed around by bigs on the college level...and he's already 22... that really concerns me.

Who cares? He pushes dudes around back and would be a match up nightmare for opponents. He's a stud. He's 22 and again I ask, who cares? He's one month older than Mitchell Robinson, less than a year older than Frank Ntilikina and just 2 years older than RJ Barrett. He's 22 not 32 lets get real.

Point about his age is the fact that he's dominating younger less physically mature players now... he'll be facing grown men when he gets to the league. Regarding who cares? I do if he ends up being the next Ends Kanter 2.0 from the PF position.

Sounds like Amare 2.0.
So, would you draft Amare 2.0?

[RHODEY]

Who cares? He pushes dudes around back and would be a match up nightmare for opponents. He's a stud. He's 22 and again I ask, who cares? He's one month older than Mitchell Robinson, less than a year older than Frank Ntilikina and just 2 years older than RJ Barrett. He's 22 not 32 lets get real.

Point about his age is the fact that he's dominating younger less physically mature players now... he'll be facing grown men when he gets to the league. Regarding who cares? I do if he ends up being the next Ends Kanter 2.0 from the PF position.

Sounds like Amare 2.0.
So, would you draft Amare 2.0?

Hell yeah....


...but he's been described as Kanter on defense.

I would not Draft John Collns with Kanter level Defense...

But I could be wrong. This article sums up how polarizing OBI is, but they do suggest he could work with someone like Mitch playing next to him...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacharycohen/2020/03/26/daytons-obi-toppin-is-one-of-the-most-polarizing-prospects-in-the-2020-nba-draft/#7491a7366dff

[Knicksfan1992]

i don't believe this was the question asked, maybe I decifered it wrong. I was under the impression if we ended up with the 8th pick lets say and Hayes gets picked 7th and we don't love Cole or Haliburton enough to pick them 8th...why trade future assets to get back into the 15-20 range if we didn't like them enough to pick them 8th?

If we get 1, 2 or 3. I might understand the logic a bit more if we say pick Anthony Edwards and want to move up a bit to secure Kira Lewis or Tre Jones...that would make sense.

But if you going to pass on Cole Anthony at say 8...it makes no sense to trade up for him at 15 because you basically admitted you don't like him enough to draft him why draft him?

Just because you might like someone better at 8th doesn't mean you can't still like him better than someone at 27th and another future pick in the 20s

if you passed on him around 8 and then think he's a good pick at 15? Yeah I don't believe that for one second...especially a position so vital the knicks need. If they don't have conviction Cole is the guy to run the show with there own pick trading up in this lottery makes no sense considering its not that strong of a draft compared to 2021 and potential loaded 2022.

I'm more talking in the event where the Knicks have Deni in a higher tier than Cole and Rose is staunch BPA but sees an opportunity later in the draft. So maybe they dont value Cole in the top 10 but think he's late lotto and he sort of falls like Cam did last year for example.

Or even if say we move up to 3 on lottery night and Lamelo is gone and they take Edwards.

That's more along the lines of what i was thinking.

[HerSports85]

Read on Twitter

[Tornelyus]

Vassell looks like perfect fit. Day 1 he would defend hard. Off the shelf he can knock down 3. He don’t need the ball in his hands, and can still be effective. Potentially, If we can develop him in time we have our own smaller PG or better shooting Butler; if we can’t we still have a starter glueguy, a perimeter 3-D not just by name but with real D and real 3ball.
If we can trade down for an additional 21 pick, super. If not, I’ll still pick Vassell and live with it.

Instead of points that cannot shoot, cannot defend or both, I’d gamble on FVV, a rental dragic and wait for ‘21 (cade?).

Not too many teams in need of a Point, maybe one of them will fall within our reach with 38 and 25.

[Juco24]

Read on Twitter

While most here don't seem to want CA, he does have the best shooting mechanics of the PGs. And while shooting alone doesn't make him the best choice.... I will say this: I'm SO TIRED of watching my Knicks NOT having a good shooting PG. Serious question: when is the last time the Knicks had a PG that was feared by opposing teams to hit from deep and create space for others? Felton? Lin? Billups? Burke? Mudiay? Robinson? Prigs? Kidd? Murry? Calderon? Eisley? Jack? Sessions? Payton? Smith? Frank?

Personally, while Cole is not my top pick (if we pick 6th) as I like Deni.. but I wouldn't be upset if we took Anthony

[Zenzibar]

Point about his age is the fact that he's dominating younger less physically mature players now... he'll be facing grown men when he gets to the league. Regarding who cares? I do if he ends up being the next Ends Kanter 2.0 from the PF position.

Sounds like Amare 2.0.
So, would you draft Amare 2.0?

Hell yeah....


...but he's been described as Kanter on defense.

I would not Draft John Collns with Kanter level Defense...

But I could be wrong. This article sums up how polarizing OBI is, but they do suggest he could work with someone like Mitch playing next to him...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacharycohen/2020/03/26/daytons-obi-toppin-is-one-of-the-most-polarizing-prospects-in-the-2020-nba-draft/#7491a7366dff

Amare sucked on defense too and even though he came into the league at what 19, he still sucked at 33.

But dam was he a monster. Haven't seen too many 6'9' cats perform a between the legs dunk DURING a game. This kid Toppin looks like he has that makeup that had a chance to carry a previously unheralded Dayton school to a shot at an NCAA championship.

[malik959]

Read on Twitter

While most here don't seem to want CA, he does have the best shooting mechanics of the PGs. And while shooting alone doesn't make him the best choice.... I will say this: I'm SO TIRED of watching my Knicks NOT having a good shooting PG. Serious question: when is the last time the Knicks had a PG that was feared by opposing teams to hit from deep and create space for others? Felton? Lin? Billups? Burke? Mudiay? Robinson? Prigs? Kidd? Murry? Calderon? Eisley? Jack? Sessions? Payton? Smith? Frank?

Personally, while Cole is not my top pick (if we pick 6th) as I like Deni.. but I wouldn't be upset if we took Anthony

This! We need a point that we could be confident in to say "Shoot The Ball!" Tired of these guards where we cringe every time they set up to shoot.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Who cares? He pushes dudes around back and would be a match up nightmare for opponents. He's a stud. He's 22 and again I ask, who cares? He's one month older than Mitchell Robinson, less than a year older than Frank Ntilikina and just 2 years older than RJ Barrett. He's 22 not 32 lets get real.

Point about his age is the fact that he's dominating younger less physically mature players now... he'll be facing grown men when he gets to the league. Regarding who cares? I do if he ends up being the next Ends Kanter 2.0 from the PF position.

Sounds like Amare 2.0.
So, would you draft Amare 2.0?

I would def draft young Amare. 19 year old Amare would be the #1 pick in this draft. Obi is not close to Amare. Not that he's bad, but hes not on that level. I would probably be disappointed if we took him though since i dont think he's the best player for us.

[god shammgod]

he's so much stiffer than an amare or blake. no thanks.

[YungKnicks]

MRob better step up big .... or he's about to be a career part time player. The NBA is moving to bigs who can shoot from outside, put the ball on the floor, pass and play defense. 5 tool guys...

Players like Onyeka Okongwu and Jalen Smith, two of my favorite players, are about to be the new normal at the C/5 spot

[YungKnicks]

Obi Toppin at 22yrs still has potential to grow, but he really needs to work on his defense... and needs a point guard to even get to an Amare level of play. Right now he clearly is a 5, which on the right team may not be a bad thing but not on this current Knicks team as our Top 5 lottery pick. Unless we have plans on moving on from Randle, limiting MRob minutes, playing a more uptempo offense and getting a very good passing PG.

[sol537]

If we grab Toppin and add a nice PG later in the draft or via a FVV signing, that might be OK.

[newyorker4ever]

Haliburton vs Cole is a tough call for me. I go back and forth.

Haliburton looks like the better player now, and I like his game. But if Cole develops into the type of player he is capable of being he could be most of what we have been looking for in a modern lead guard.

It's just a guessing game for how much any of these guys will improve.

But yeah, Hayes looks like he is in a tier above for me, at least out of those PGs.

I like Hayes as well but there is some worry that the Knicks will have doubts going with a PG from France because of Frank. Now i'm a Frank fan and was ecstatic with how he finally seemed to find some confidence in himself in the last 3 or so weeks of this year. He was putting up shots even if he missed a few which he would never do before and it was fun to watch.

My point here that i was getting away from was if you think the Knicks will be a little weary of drafting K.Hayes just because of the PG from France thing that they've gone through with Frank? I know we have new guys in place now that weren't here when we drafted Frank but Perry has been around for a couple years so he's heard it all from the media and fans about Frank in those couple of years.

[newyorker4ever]

If we get 7-8, and assume hayes was gone (or let's just say if the knicks were too cowardly to take the gamble on hayes or didn't want to draft another french guard) I think I'd take Hampton over Cole and Haliburton as I think he's got more upside. I really wouldn't want to take either of Cole or Haliburton and would consider one of the other prospects if they are still on the board like avdija, okongwu, toppin as well.

I'm so down with going with any one of Avdija, Toppin, Okongwu even though i want a PG as much as anyone else does. I just don't think we should go into this draft thinking we absolutely have to get a PG with our lottery pick when there's some really good talent at other positions that will be sitting there.

Now if we did go with another position other then PG with our top pick then i'd either be looking to use the Clippers and Charlotte pick to trade up into the middle of the 1st to get T.Maxey, T.Jones, N.Mannion, RJ Hampton, T.Maledon or trade maybe one of those pics with a future pick to get back into the late lottery and still come away with one of the top PG's.

How nice would it be to come out of this draft with two lottery picks so we get our PG and another legit player at another position?

[newyorker4ever]

None of those teams were good or going to the ncaa tournament. a .500 record in the NCAA isn't the same as a .500 record in the nba each school plays a handful of cupcake teams in non-conference games to pad their records. they do count but they aren't anything I'd consider impressive or "winning teams" Va Tech was 7-13 in conference play. They aren't a good team. With that said they were still better than Cole's 14-19 team that was 6-14 in the conference so I guess you could call it an upset victory by one bad team over another

the impressive victory would have been if they could have closed out that game against duke, even though they choked I was still impressed by that effort, and they beat Oregon who finished ranked 13th. That's all I'll give him

Last year, 7 ACC teams made the tourney. I have no reason to think that they couldn't do that again and Cuse and ND would be the 6th+7th team in from the ACC. Of course all teams play some bad non conference games but they also play elite teams from other conferences too. Notre dame and Cuse are big name universities, I wouldn't assume their non conference schedule is a complete joke. There's no good reason to only look at conference play when judging college teams records. I never said the UNC was a good team or Cole is a great player. They were just better when he played than when he was injured.

They did play better when he played, I agree. Also as far as Syracuse goes the last game of the season in the ACC tournament they lost by 28 to syracuse. cole played 37 minutes and 5 points on 2/10 shooting with 3 assists and 6 turnovers. Gotta take the bad with the good too I guess

One thing you'll always get from a Syracuse team is it will always be tough to play against that 2-3 zone defense. They always have great length on every team and can shut many teams down with it.