Around the League - 2019-2020

[Kobblehead]

Actually, I shouldn't say "no way" pertaining to anything involving Michael Jordan.

I just think those Bulls teams were very Jordan/Pippen dependent and there was an opportunity for a team with a hall of fame big plus a closer combination to possibly sneak out a win. For instance, Penny/Shaq beating them in 95.

[Sixerscan]

Malone was not good in those either of those finals series. Guy put up good numbers but tended to not show up in big moments his whole career.

Richmond was basically the 90s version of a rich mans Zach Lavine so I guess I'm not surprised you like him. Won one playoff game after age 25, wasn't doing much closing.

[Kobblehead]

The only reason Richmond didn't win in his career is because Don Nelson was a dope and broke up a potential dynasty in Golden State prematurely that ultimately ended in their collapse.

And then Richmond was stuck in Sacramento in the pre-Webber stage of the franchise.

He was a victim of dopey team running (Golden State) and bad timing (Sacramento).

Imagine if the Warriors kept a young blossoming trio of Richmond/Mullin/Hardaway together. Or if the Kings traded for Webber 3 years earlier.

[Kobblehead]

Malone was not good in those either of those finals series. Guy put up good numbers but tended to not show up in big moments his whole career.

Couldn't some of that be because there was nobody else on Utah that could go on the ball and get a bucket in those big moments on the big stage? Stockton sure as hell couldn't. Which is the whole basic of my point. You're really leaving these bigmen out to dry by not pairing them with a closer.

[Kobblehead]

And it doesn't even have to be a hall of fame scorer to pair them with. Just a Kevin Johnson / Tim Hardaway type would have sufficed for Malone.

Hell, Duncan was winning titles with mere Parker/Ginoboli types.

[Sixerscan]

Actually, I shouldn't say "no way" pertaining to anything involving Michael Jordan.

I just think those Bulls teams were very Jordan/Pippen dependent and there was an opportunity for a team with a hall of fame big plus a closer combination to possibly sneak out a win. For instance, Penny/Shaq beating them in 95.

Well, remember the Bulls swept the Magic the following year by an average of 17 PPG. Just seemed like an anomaly with MJ just coming back from baseball. Also they didn't have Rodman yet in 95.

They were top heavy in terms of scoring by modern standards, but the game was completely different. Without zone or even being able to double effectively you pretty much just ran the same plays over and over again and dared teams to stop them. Games also had much fewer possessions and the scoring was in the 80s.

The team I most wish they would have faced was that '97 Rockets team with Dream Drexler and Barkley. Would have been a crazy clash of styles and some old foes trying to get revenge. Unfortunately they had Matt Mahoney (of Penn) playing point for them and Stockton destroyed him in the WCF so we didn't get to see it.

[Sixerscan]

Malone was not good in those either of those finals series. Guy put up good numbers but tended to not show up in big moments his whole career.

Couldn't some of that be because there was nobody else on Utah that could go on the ball and get a bucket in those big moments on the big stage? Stockton sure as hell couldn't. Which is the whole basic of my point. You're really leaving these bigmen out to dry by not pairing them with a closer.

I mean they won plenty of playoff series against good teams just not Jordan's Bulls. Stockton came up big a lot for them.

[Sixerscan]

And it doesn't even have to be a hall of fame scorer to pair them with. Just a Kevin Johnson / Tim Hardaway type would have sufficed for Malone.

Hell, Duncan was winning titles with mere Parker/Ginoboli types.

Well Kevin Johnson was on a team with a hall of famer power forward that played the Bulls in the finals, didn't work out for them.

I know you have your central unifying theory of what wins in the playoffs, but I really don't think a guard isolating on MJ, or Pippen, or Harper would have really been a very effective strategy. I think one of those Hakeem teams would have had the best shot (I guess Drexler kind of fits your theory, though he wasn't at his best anymore), never synced up unfortunately.

Duncan wasn't winning those titles against MJ and Pippen. A lot of guys in the 90s might have rings if they played 10 years later.

[Kobblehead]

I would have traded Stockton by the early 90s.

Malone was too dominant to risk riding out the status quo with. Had to have at least tried to pair him with a scorer.

[Negrodamus]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/g3px10/weitzman_a_behind_the_scenes_look_into_what/

I almost went looking for the Fultz thread, but got lazy. I feel pretty bad for Fultz and his situation with his mom. Clearly he was putting him through psychological anguish. I do also think Williams did something to his shot.

The tragedy is that there are times where he could have chosen the side of his manager or the Sixers to fix issues, but still sided with his mom. I'm not going to blame a 19 year old for siding with the person who raised him, but at a certain point you gotta become an adult and do what's right for you. Reminds me of Kobe and his fall out with his parents at 23 when he married Vanessa, then again later on when they sold off his stuff at their home. It's no doubt a hard decision to make, but this is his future on the line. I wonder if organizations, the Sixers specifically, will intervene sooner and more aggressively in the future. Can't let an investment like this completely go off the rails.

Love the bit about Embiid though. Guy is a keeper.

[Sixerscan]

Can anyone recall why the Jazz didn’t make roster adjustments after they were beaten by the Bulls when they first met?

Jazz’s best defender against MJ is Byron. They could have look for better 3&D wings. Then if Byron is on MJ, who will defend Pippen? Hornacek?

If you look at the recent trend of the league. Teams usually adjusts to the best team/player of the league. Like teams stacking up their bigs (that sonics big that was overpaid) against shaq. Teams stacking up their wings (ruben patterson?) against Kobe. And so forth..

But against MJ and Pippen. Why did they just settle on Byron Russell and having Hornacek to defend Pippen?

They took Jordan's Bulls 6 games in '97, 3 of those losses being 4 points or less. They knew it was the end of Stockton and Malone's careers and didn't want to completely change things up when they were so close and the Bulls were showing signs of running out of gas.

Teams also in general didn't make the same level of year to year roster changes back then like they do now.

[Sixerscan]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/g3px10/weitzman_a_behind_the_scenes_look_into_what/

I almost went looking for the Fultz thread, but got lazy. I feel pretty bad for Fultz and his situation with his mom. Clearly he was putting him through psychological anguish. I do also think Williams did something to his shot.

The tragedy is that there are times where he could have chosen the side of his manager or the Sixers to fix issues, but still sided with his mom. I'm not going to blame a 19 year old for siding with the person who raised him, but at a certain point you gotta become an adult and do what's right for you. Reminds me of Kobe and his fall out with his parents at 23 when he married Vanessa, then again later on when they sold off his stuff at their home. It's no doubt a hard decision to make, but this is his future on the line. I wonder if organizations, the Sixers specifically, will intervene sooner and more aggressively in the future. Can't let an investment like this completely go off the rails.

Love the bit about Embiid though. Guy is a keeper.

I don't think they really spoke to Fultz before the trade happened, and so they were sort of blindsided by how immature he ended up being. I've said this before but I think they've really placed a premium on doing their homework and getting to know the person they are drafting since then. Also may have played a role in why they prioritized steady personalities like Harris and Horford.

The Fultz stuff as always is confusing and sad. In retrospect all the hoopla about the trade was the worst thing that could have happened to him. The talent is still there though, wouldn't shock me if he made an all star team at some point.

[Kobblehead]

It's baffling to me that the NBA doesn't have mandatory interview blocks and medical information sharing for draft entrees.

[Kobblehead]

Spoiler:

If only they knew how much they could relate to each other.

[Kobblehead]

What would Fultz panning out with us have meant for Simmons?

[Kobblehead]

Now that you mentioned it, I remember Anderson and Morris. And that may have been their adjustment (which made sense for me on paper) that just didn’t pay off.

First Finals:
Anderson - 20.1 mpg
Morris - 11.6 mpg

Second Finals:
Anderson - 21 mpg
Morris - 17.5 mpg

Sloan smartened up a little more the second time around, but he still played tiny ass Howard Eisley too much.

Stockton, Hornacek and Eisley played a combined 84 mpg so think about all the minutes Ron Harper (6'6"), Scottie Pippen (6'8") and Toni Kukoc (6'10") were guarded by a 6'2" player in that series. Baffling.

[Negrodamus]

Watching Last Dance is really emphasizing how crazy the human aspect of the relationships within the team matter.

[76ciology]

What would Fultz panning out with us have meant for Simmons?

Just as what OKC would have done to Westbrook, if they saw Harden being this good.

Trading Ben for a player who can shoot of the same value with Fultz without the yips, would have made us an instant contender imo.

Fultz for me is like a mix of what Jimmy and Jj were with Biid. Thats how good of a fit i think both Biid and Fultz could become.

I dont want to think about it anymore because it breaks my heart as a fan of this team

[76ciology]

Now that you mentioned it, I remember Anderson and Morris. And that may have been their adjustment (which made sense for me on paper) that just didn’t pay off.

First Finals:
Anderson - 20.1 mpg
Morris - 11.6 mpg

Second Finals:
Anderson - 21 mpg
Morris - 17.5 mpg

Sloan smartened up a little more the second time around, but he still played tiny ass Howard Eisley too much.

Stockton, Hornacek and Eisley played a combined 84 mpg so think about all the minutes Ron Harper (6'6"), Scottie Pippen (6'8") and Toni Kukoc (6'10") were guarded by a 6'2" player in that series. Baffling.

I believe teams back then don’t play different styles (for instance how we’d run a Biid centric offense and a Ben centric offense or warriors alternating small ball and a unit with a center) between starters and off the bench units. Like they’d still run the same stuff with the back-ups being poor version of their starters. That I don’t think Sloan would want a Ron Harper or Shaun Livingston to back-up Stockton.

[76ciology]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/g3px10/weitzman_a_behind_the_scenes_look_into_what/

I almost went looking for the Fultz thread, but got lazy. I feel pretty bad for Fultz and his situation with his mom. Clearly he was putting him through psychological anguish. I do also think Williams did something to his shot.

The tragedy is that there are times where he could have chosen the side of his manager or the Sixers to fix issues, but still sided with his mom. I'm not going to blame a 19 year old for siding with the person who raised him, but at a certain point you gotta become an adult and do what's right for you. Reminds me of Kobe and his fall out with his parents at 23 when he married Vanessa, then again later on when they sold off his stuff at their home. It's no doubt a hard decision to make, but this is his future on the line. I wonder if organizations, the Sixers specifically, will intervene sooner and more aggressively in the future. Can't let an investment like this completely go off the rails.

Love the bit about Embiid though. Guy is a keeper.

Do you think Fultz got the yips because of anxiety?

I think Fultz got into some physical incident. Maybe he punched the wall in a fight that got his shoulder injured.