OT- The Last Dance documentary

[bullsnewdynasty]

Are we really having a tanking debate? I mean come on, there's a huge difference between making the playoffs as a young team on the rise versus making the playoffs as a treadmill veteran team.

And on a side note, Jordan sure understood what tanking was when they were trying to land Anthony Davis back in the day.

[johnnyvann840]

Are we really having a tanking debate? I mean come on, there's a huge difference between making the playoffs as a young team on the rise versus making the playoffs as a treadmill veteran team.

And on a side note, Jordan sure understood what tanking was when they were trying to land Anthony Davis back in the day.

The debate was whether or not the Bulls tanked to get Jordan.

Spoiler:

I think we've seen enough in recent years that the tanking is a failed strategy. In fact, just look at the last 20 years of Champions... Hell, the Raps didn't even have a damn lottery pick on their team. The Warriors won without a draft pick higher than 7 and even with Durant he was a FA not their pick. The top 4 teams right now in each conference are MIL, TOR, BOS, MIA. LAL, LAC, DEN, UTA. Boston is really the only team that has high picks of their own.

[HomoSapien]

It’s late and I’ll write a longer post tomorrow, but this is just a fantastic documentary. So far my favorite moment is MJ denying Scott Burrell a hug.

[troza]

I still need to see and I think I will wait to have all parts available... until then, 98 playoffs (already on the 2nd quarter of game 3 of Nets vs Bulls).

The tanking talk... I think that it is crazy to look back and find lots of what ifs during that period that would potentially makes us even better... And for me that shows us that we had a great team build around our main players but it might not have been one of the best in the papper. We were better than the sum of the parts...

[robert76]

It’s late and I’ll write a longer post tomorrow, but this is just a fantastic documentary. So far my favorite moment is MJ denying Scott Burrell a hug.

At least, I can hear other's people opinion about it. I've seen most of the series so far, but of course I'm not allowed to talk about it. I find it excellent!

[Bullflip]

It’s late and I’ll write a longer post tomorrow, but this is just a fantastic documentary. So far my favorite moment is MJ denying Scott Burrell a hug.

At least, I can hear other's people opinion about it. I've seen most of the series so far, but of course I'm not allowed to talk about it. I find it excellent!

How are you guys able to see the rest of series already? Is it “out” there?

[rtblues]

I have no words. As someone who lived through the 6-peat, and having started off as a fan of the Dick Motta teams, I am not ashamed to say that I teared up a few times watching this. I must admit how spoiled I was and never imagined that the drought that would follow would last until today.

Just glad some younger fans get a chance to see what true greatness is. Maybe the most glaring difference from back then to today that the film reveals is just how much and how hard players practiced compared to today. Amazing stuff and can't wait for the rest.

RE: Jerry Krause: The best line I heard regarding Krause in this whole thing was, "He couldn't get out of his own way." How true!

Bravo and kudos to the filmmakers, really well done as a film and a historical documentary.

[robert76]

It’s late and I’ll write a longer post tomorrow, but this is just a fantastic documentary. So far my favorite moment is MJ denying Scott Burrell a hug.

At least, I can hear other's people opinion about it. I've seen most of the series so far, but of course I'm not allowed to talk about it. I find it excellent!

How are you guys able to see the rest of series already? Is it “out” there?

No, I had to translate it. That's why I'm not allowed to talk about it.

[kulaz3000]

Perhaps I'm getting soft in my old age, but I didn't really appreciate how everyone seemingly made Krause out to be the villain. Most Bulls fans know what happened, and yes, Krause wanted to start his own rebuild and in many ways, it was his vision which broke up the dynasty, but it kind of sucks that he isn't alive to tell his side of the story and his justification.

Gosh, I can't remember when it was exactly, but it wasn't so long before his death, he had about an hour long interview on a podcast form which was very interesting and gave some further insight to his personality and vision, and despite his awkwardness and at times unattractive personality, the had a real special knack for spotting talent, and many times well before the rest of the league did, he just didn't have the personality, or by that time, his reputation as well as the Bulls reputation was tarnished to the point where the Bulls was not a desirable destination.

[kulaz3000]

The music editing during the 63 point game was on point.

[Susan]

Perhaps I'm getting soft in my old age, but I didn't really appreciate how everyone seemingly made Krause out to be the villain. Most Bulls fans know what happened, and yes, Krause wanted to start his own rebuild and in many ways, it was his vision which broke up the dynasty, but it kind of sucks that he isn't alive to tell his side of the story and his justification.

Gosh, I can't remember when it was exactly, but it wasn't so long before his death, he had about an hour long interview on a podcast form which was very interesting and gave some further insight to his personality and vision, and despite his awkwardness and at times unattractive personality, the had a real special knack for spotting talent, and many times well before the rest of the league did, he just didn't have the personality, or by that time, his reputation as well as the Bulls reputation was tarnished to the point where the Bulls was not a desirable destination.

He earned his reputation.

The Bulls had the worst run of any pro sports team ever when MJ left. There's probably hundreds, if not thousands of people who could have built a championship level roster with MJ, there's only one MJ.

**** Jerry Krause, **** Gar Forman, **** Tim Floyd and **** Fred Hoiberg.

[troza]

Perhaps I'm getting soft in my old age, but I didn't really appreciate how everyone seemingly made Krause out to be the villain. Most Bulls fans know what happened, and yes, Krause wanted to start his own rebuild and in many ways, it was his vision which broke up the dynasty, but it kind of sucks that he isn't alive to tell his side of the story and his justification.

Gosh, I can't remember when it was exactly, but it wasn't so long before his death, he had about an hour long interview on a podcast form which was very interesting and gave some further insight to his personality and vision, and despite his awkwardness and at times unattractive personality, the had a real special knack for spotting talent, and many times well before the rest of the league did, he just didn't have the personality, or by that time, his reputation as well as the Bulls reputation was tarnished to the point where the Bulls was not a desirable destination.

Someone shared it here on the forum but I can't find the link. He basically said that Phil wouldn't want to be here in a team without a 5 (Luc Longley's knees) and a 4 (Rodman was 37 at the time and was starting to decline big time).

I would say that part of this might be true as we actually went to playoffs with only 2 centers (when before we had more) and it kind of made some sense and it didn't (Mourning and Ewing were still on the conference). Without Longley we wouldn't go anywhere with only Bill Wennington. Rodman was a must... without him at a good level it would be very hard for us to go anywhere. But... couldn't Krause pull some moves to try to get us in position to contend? With Jordan, Pippen, Harper, Kukoc... and maybe even Rodman one more year and some moves, couldn't we contend? I think we could.

And what he said to Phil... we need to know why the relantionship was so damaged that it reached that point of no return. And here I agree that Krause isn't the only one to blame.

He earned his reputation.

The Bulls had the worst run of any pro sports team ever when MJ left. There's probably hundreds, if not thousands of people who could have built a championship level roster with MJ, there's only on MJ.

**** Jerry Krause, **** Gar Forman, **** Tim Floyd and **** Fred Hoiberg.

Those 2 coaches were horrible follow ups from the ones that gave us our best periods of basketball...

[dumbell78]

Man just watched the episodes, I have to watch them late...after the kids go down. I love it so far, episode 2 was just off the charts fantastic. Loved the little bits, MJ laughing and ignoring the French auto dude asking for an autograph, MJ playing golf with Ainge before game two, MJ talking to Stern asking how his wife was. Just awesome clips.

[Michael Jackson]

"The Bulls were being out drawn by an indoor soccer league team before MJ arrived."



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The Sting won the championship in 1984 iirc.

[MrSparkle]

Pax hitting that game winner in 1986 to go 30-52 and hilariously make the playoffs feels like a pivotal and totally "pax" moment if anyone ever bothered to make a pax centric docu-series.

It's like his training ground for 30 years later stubbornly resigning and playing an expiring niko into a pointlessly big winning streak to ultimately miss out on luka because of it.

Yeah but there was a butterfly effect. If they don't squeak in the playoffs that year that Boston series never happens the 49 point game the 63-point game so that's "God disguised as Michael Jordan" quote by Bird.. none of that happens. That was the beginning of the ascent. What if that team tanked out got a higher pick... it changes everything . they don't get Scottie and Horace.

I still stand firmly that tanking is a disgrace to the game. It's not a proven strategy by any means ...never was never will be. You go out there and you play your best and play to win. Period. That's the difference between then and now. Thank God Michael came back and things happened the way they did. Something so simple not happening could have changed the course of history in a big way and not a good way.

Well I do think tanking is a disgrace. On the other hand if you deliberately assemble a bad team , and then happen to start winning aggressively AND then dump the primary reason (Niko), resume the tank and then you start overachieving the last 2 weeks as well in a generational draft... then that is simply stupid. Hated the Butler trade, hated watching Niko heat up and still get traded for peanuts (in favor of Bobby, who left anyway?). What bothered me was they kept changing gears in a great draft before settling for losing in the next (mediocre) draft.

But I agree. In general, I’ve never seen the value of blatant tanking. It’s backfired for a lot of teams. Heat didn’t win chips because of Michael Beasley. They ended up trading him for $5m of cap space. In Boston’s big tank years, they came up with Jeff Green and Marcus Smart — obviously both came up as useful (trade for Ray, role-player), but clearly both could’ve been acquired by alternate means.

[Michael Jackson]

The entire bit about Stan Albeck only being able to play Michael 7 minutes per half or he would be fired on the spot in the 85-86 season when he broke his foot and came back, was a bunch of BS. Michael played more than 14 minutes per game in almost all of those games except maybe two or three of them. In the Indy game when Pax hit the game-winning shot Michael played almost 30 minutes. So that part was embellished a little.

Oh, and I'm trying to picture Krause coming down and grabbing Stan Albeck by his tie and choking him.

that part killed me. If you are willing to lie about something so easily proven to be false in order to paint your hero/villain narrative, what else will you lie about.

It was such an unnecessary (false) narrative to push. There’s plenty of things to use, factually, to show the rift that existed between the players and Krause... to make up sh*t is as loathsome as some of the details that actually surrounded Krause toward the end of the dynasty’s run.

Jordan has the charm and he is Michael Jordan. Of course he was going to throw Krause under the bus but he was quick to throw Pippen under the bus too. I mean it’s classic Jordan. As Mel Brooks once said “It’s good to be the king”

[DASMACKDOWN]

Krause was great GM, but like Kerr said, he couldn't get out of his own way.

Krause wanted to be bigger than the Bulls and his arrogance clouded his judgment.

There was a guy that said Krause had "little man syndrome" and I agree with that sentiment. Krause clearly felt jealous over MJ and crew getting the majority of the credit and because of that jealousy he ended the dynasty. What pisses me off is that Reinsdorf chose Krause over MJ and crew.

Krause made some shrewd moves and we know what they are, but he also made some misguided decisions, ie Baby Bulls.

It was JR biggest ownership mistake in my opinion. There is no way a knowledgeable owner would allow that to happen. Where you lose your once in a lifetime asset due to your GM. If Krause hating Phil but Phil is attached to MJ, you fire the GM and don't think twice about it. That was always the move.

Even if people thought the team may not have had enough left for another true title run, they earned the right to sail into the sunset together. MJ and Scottie should have both retired together in a Bulls uniform.

[ATRAIN53]

I love waking up in a world where everyone is talking about Jordan and the Bulls again.

That brings back memories too, us being the top sports story every night.

It's kinda a bummer to realize it'll never be that awesome again,makes me realize why I struggle to see greatness when I watch sports highlights because it really just isn't possible to do it better than MJ did.


My kid got tired about 10 minutes into episode 2.
Made me turn it off so we could watch it together tonight.
No problem because this is really for him to see IMO. I saw it already.

[AKfanatic]

Krause probably thought he’d get some credit from the media at large in the way guys like West got credit.... unfortunately for Krause, he was always going to be the villain of the media driven stories.

Eventually he became much of the villain he’d been painted as for years.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Perhaps I'm getting soft in my old age, but I didn't really appreciate how everyone seemingly made Krause out to be the villain. Most Bulls fans know what happened, and yes, Krause wanted to start his own rebuild and in many ways, it was his vision which broke up the dynasty, but it kind of sucks that he isn't alive to tell his side of the story and his justification.

Gosh, I can't remember when it was exactly, but it wasn't so long before his death, he had about an hour long interview on a podcast form which was very interesting and gave some further insight to his personality and vision, and despite his awkwardness and at times unattractive personality, the had a real special knack for spotting talent, and many times well before the rest of the league did, he just didn't have the personality, or by that time, his reputation as well as the Bulls reputation was tarnished to the point where the Bulls was not a desirable destination.

He earned his reputation.

The Bulls had the worst run of any pro sports team ever when MJ left. There's probably hundreds, if not thousands of people who could have built a championship level roster with MJ, there's only one MJ.

**** Jerry Krause, **** Gar Forman, **** Tim Floyd and **** Fred Hoiberg.

I may not say it as harsh but I agree with the sentiment. Krause earned his reputation because of what happened AFTER the dynasty.

His ego is what caused the breakup. And what happened after, was the universe telling him to humble himself.

Krause literally said he will get his team into the playoffs in 3 years. Well in the 5 years after the breakup, the Bulls were the worst team in league history during that stretch. And its funny that it recovered the moment Krause left.

I know Krause aint around to defend himself or clarify his remarks, but his points were clear as day.