AKfanatic wrote:DASMACKDOWN wrote:Susan wrote:
He earned his reputation.
The Bulls had the worst run of any pro sports team ever when MJ left. There's probably hundreds, if not thousands of people who could have built a championship level roster with MJ, there's only one MJ.
**** Jerry Krause, **** Gar Forman, **** Tim Floyd and **** Fred Hoiberg.
I may not say it as harsh but I agree with the sentiment. Krause earned his reputation because of what happened AFTER the dynasty.
His ego is what caused the breakup. And what happened after, was the universe telling him to humble himself.
Krause literally said he will get his team into the playoffs in 3 years. Well in the 5 years after the breakup, the Bulls were the worst team in league history during that stretch. And its funny that it recovered the moment Krause left.I know Krause aint around to defend himself or clarify his remarks, but his points were clear as day.
Here’s the previously mentioned podcast
http://m.espn.com/general/play?id=27061448
Good re-listen (I forgot about this interview, I did listen to it when it came out). Krause had a bunch of strikes, particularly 97-99 (one after another), but he was an exceptionally genius scout and excellent GM, a pioneer in many ways. I dunno if I buy that a bunch of GMs could've made a chip roster with Jordan. Yeah, MJ was the best player ever, but there have been super intense MVP players who never sniffed a championship with their
draft-organizations (Garnett, Lebron). A very common mistake is overloading early with contracts and vets due to the player's demand, and then by the time they hit their prime, the roster and cap/draft situation is total junk. In many ways, same thing going on with Milwaukee- they have a great little window and an excellent coach but I would say that team has very serious flaws when you consider they're capped.
Also, in many ways, the same thing happened with the Rose Bulls - you can strongly argue they would've been better off without Boozer and stuck to "Lebron/Wade or nothing." Chicago fanbase would've gotten the pitchforks out, but you have to wonder how much better the 2012 situation would've been. Personally I liked that 2010-12 ECF-run with Boozer/vets, but I'm a RealGM not a "real" GM.
Actually to correct that statement, I was big on the idea of trading for a half-complete/near-expiring contract (like Al Jefferson) instead of marrying a 4-year deal for a declining fringe star (I was an Illini Deron fan, did not like what I saw from Boozer in his last Utah
playoff appearance - he almost exclusively turned into a high-post PnR shooter after the injuries, as opposed to the scrappy bruiser he was prior). But those X-Y-Z moves are way harder than A-B-C imo. That's why I credit Toronto heavily for getting the chip done. It wasn't pretty (took a lot of terrible GSW injuries) and it was a short window, but the way they persisted with core players and kept developing and tweaking, adding talent (both players and coaches), it was masterfully done considering the city really had no business winning a championship. GarPax found something good in 2010 and basically stood pat as long as possible, addressing problems with vet min contracts and zero trades.
Krause should get the credit he deserves for Pippen, Cartwright and Phil. Those were all out-of-nowhere moves. You don't trade a superstar's best friend (Oakley). Pippen was a draft-trade steal from a tiny program. Phil is easily the most unique coach in NBA history who probably would've never gotten an NBA job if Krause didn't have that long-time fascination. All the other coaches, Winter, Bach, the trainers - there was a lot of talent on the bench. He did a lot of things well.
Some of his stubborn/ego hard-wall decisions came back to haunt him, but Krause was elite at what he did. I maintain that he continued drafting really well (besides for skipping Pau), but the coaching and behind-the-scenes structure took a total nose-dive as the NBA changed a lot.
I think the personalities of the NBA players started changing drastically from 95 on. The Iverson, Curry, Artest, Q Rich, Francis age - these were a new generation of street-raised kids far different than the small-town country boys with family and college-coach structures (MJ, Pippen). Different psychological approach to managing those relationships and developing their personalities and games. Apparently MJ himself didn't get it either, with Kwame and his younger Wizards teammates.
Frankly, I don't think Gar nor Pax got it either. Deng, Hinrich, Nocioni up to Boozer, Taj, Noah - these were 80s/early-90s players.
They were still good in the NBA, but not championship caliber in a league full of dynamic passers and dribblers. When the hand-check rules came along in 05, Kirk was quickly obsolete as a ball-handler. I think Duhon was secretly more important than anybody thought. There was no point-anybody on that team until Derrick. I still maintain that the GarPax build from 08-16 was pretty much very mediocre, despite the success we had with Thibs. There was such a large dip in offensive production compared to other contenders, you couldn't just rely on Derrick. The fact that the Bulls looked so overwhelmed against the #8 seed Sixers (after Derrick's ACL) was so telling.
