ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion

[Mamba Mentality]

My favorite quotes from this so far:

"Everybody says, well, you won all these championships, but I didn't win without Scottie Pippen."

- Michael Jordan

"Whenever they speak Michael Jordan they should speak Scottie Pippen."

- Michael Jordan

Gifts that will keep on giving.

So many gems through two episodes...

Michael Jordan was the only player ever who could turn it on and off. And he never frickin turned it off. -Roy Williams

That wasn’t Michael on the court that was God pretending to be Michael Jordan. -Larry Bird

But my absolute favorite...

When team owner Jerry Reisndorf explained the gravity of the situation (chance of Jordan re-injuring his ankle and ending his career) he asked, “If you had a headache and a doctor gave you 10 pills and one of them could kill you, would you swallow the pills?” To which Jordan snaps, “Depends on how bad the **** headache is.”

[macNcheese3]

First episode was awesome. Looking forward to watching 2, and the rest next week.

[bluemj32]

MJ was low key hilarious

Lol yea honestly his sense of humor is ****ing incredible. Dudes witty as ****. You can tell he's just a cool and charismatic MFer vs LeBron who's kinda dorky.

More articulate too. I like Lebron and I like him even more when he's shutting up. Too prone to faux pas although he's come a long way on that front

Really no comparison on their personalities. MJ and Kobe are more Type A, and Magic and Bron are more Type B.

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[Jaqua92]

Damn shame that LeBron fans are trying to ruin the thread.

They know MJ is the GOAT. They know it


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[RB34]

Very much enjoyed the series so far.

LBJ fans in damage control, which is interesting because like has been said there is nothing really new in the doco.

[Ambrose]

Anyone who mentions LeBron in this thread, positively or negatively, should be booted from the thread going forward. It's incredibly annoying. You're all insecure as ****.

[510TWSS]

that letter he read out loud when he was back in college to his ma filled my heart so much lol

[JShuttlesworth]

I loved those first two episodes. I was born in 1990, so kind of a weird time in terms of MJ. Old enough to remember the Bulls second run, but too young to appreciate what I was watching. I've watched so many clips, highlights, games, but this doc does a good job of bringing some of that nostalgia of the 90s back.

Shout out to Scottie Pippen by the way. He doesn't get enough love on here. I can't believe he signed that contract...I don't think I ever understood how underpaid he was.

[durden_tyler]

No one is talking about the *entire* (maybe half) Bullls team doing cocaine in a hotel in his rookie year?

Too lazy to look up the roster

[Profound23]

Someone posted that Stackhammer from Space Jam was based on Jerry Krause.

Can't believe I never figured that out before.

[Profound23]

No one is talking about the *entire* (maybe half) Bullls team doing cocaine in a hotel in his rookie year?

Too lazy to look up the roster

That was my first thought. People were going crazy because of MJs comments about Pippen. I'm like, "well yeah, he played with an entire team of crackheads, weedheads, and dudes who partied with prostitutes nights before games...of course once he saw Pippen it was a breath of fresh air."

[Kabookalu]

Someone posted that Stackhammer from Space Jam was based on Jerry Krause.

Can't believe I never figured that out before.

That's amazing

[TheFinishSniper]

I loved those first two episodes. I was born in 1990, so kind of a weird time in terms of MJ. Old enough to remember the Bulls second run, but too young to appreciate what I was watching. I've watched so many clips, highlights, games, but this doc does a good job of bringing some of that nostalgia of the 90s back.

Shout out to Scottie Pippen by the way. He doesn't get enough love on here. I can't believe he signed that contract...I don't think I ever understood how underpaid he was.

maybe in that time Scottie was underpaid, but he got paid when S&T deal happened and then Pax later when he become Bulls GM signed him for 2 years, 5 per year deal to mentor young Bulls squad. And then till recently he was Bulls ambassador, basically getting paycheck for sitting on Bulls games till he didnt get ESPN gig.

Scottie eventually earned his money even with Bulls. I know everyone talks how Bulls did Scottie dirty and didnt let him renegotiate. No Scottie did Scottie dirty. Everyone told him it was bad deal in first place yet he went for it.

[trickshot]

The Pippen contract situation just underlines the need for a powerful players union. The billionaires upstairs are hardcore capitalists who would split revenue 97/3 if they could and expect to be thanked for it

[kulaz3000]

The Pippen contract situation just underlines the need for a powerful players union. The billionaires upstairs are hardcore capitalists who would split revenue 97/3 if they could and expect to be thanked for it

If a player signs a big contract but doesn't fulfill it, should the player negotiate a new contract and give up money?

As a Bulls fan, there are a lot of criticisms of the Bulls front office and ownership, but to me personally, this isn't one of them. They cautioned Scottie about not taking the contract, but but as stated in the series, Scottie had back injury concerns and wanted the security. There are plenty of players even now, who give up more money for immediate security - the only difference is the sum of money involved, no one knew that during the course of the contract that the league would balloon the way it did, so to compare contracts than and now isn't fair.

Put it this way, there are a lot more contracts which are given to players who don't deserve them, then players who should be earning more during the course of their contracts. But I don't see anyone making the arguement that players should give up money because they don't deserve the contract, the blame always shifts to ownerships and management for giving the contract to begin with.

[trickshot]

The Pippen contract situation just underlines the need for a powerful players union. The billionaires upstairs are hardcore capitalists who would split revenue 97/3 if they could and expect to be thanked for it

If a player signs a big contract but doesn't fulfill it, should the player negotiate a new contract and give up money?

As a Bulls fan, there are a lot of criticisms of the Bulls front office and ownership, but to me personally, this isn't one of them. They cautioned Scottie about not taking the contract, but but as stated in the series, Scottie had back injury concerns and wanted the security. There are plenty of players even now, who give up more money for immediate security - the only difference is the sum of money involved, no one knew that during the course of the contract that the league would balloon the way it did, so to compare contracts than and now isn't fair.

Put it this way, there are a lot more contracts which are given to players who don't deserve them, then players who should be earning more during the course of their contracts. But I don't see anyone making the arguement that players should give up money because they don't deserve the contract, the blame always shifts to ownerships and management for giving the contract to begin with.

Actually agree that Scott had himself to blame and wasn't legally entitled to renegotiate a bigger deal. If he got one, it would have been as a matter of goodwill. The players union refers to saving players from themselves. Today's union is an evolution on the back of past mistakes and ignorance like the one Scottie made

Do you think the documentary makes your team look bad so far?

[TheBallsDeeper]

As an Australian I'm disappointed that it looks like they didn't interview Luc Longley - He was the starting center throughout the 3 years (when he wasn't injured), instead they have the back up center all through it.

I wonder if Longley didn't want to participate (I don't see a reason why he wouldn't - he wrote a book on it), or if the producers were to cheap to fly to Australia/fly him to the US.

[tondi123]

The Pippen contract situation just underlines the need for a powerful players union. The billionaires upstairs are hardcore capitalists who would split revenue 97/3 if they could and expect to be thanked for it

If Scottie chooses, with full knowledge of what he's signing, to sign any contract then that's on him and his agent. Blaming the NBA, or anybody else, for him doing it is ridiculous.

[kulaz3000]

The Pippen contract situation just underlines the need for a powerful players union. The billionaires upstairs are hardcore capitalists who would split revenue 97/3 if they could and expect to be thanked for it

If a player signs a big contract but doesn't fulfill it, should the player negotiate a new contract and give up money?

As a Bulls fan, there are a lot of criticisms of the Bulls front office and ownership, but to me personally, this isn't one of them. They cautioned Scottie about not taking the contract, but but as stated in the series, Scottie had back injury concerns and wanted the security. There are plenty of players even now, who give up more money for immediate security - the only difference is the sum of money involved, no one knew that during the course of the contract that the league would balloon the way it did, so to compare contracts than and now isn't fair.

Put it this way, there are a lot more contracts which are given to players who don't deserve them, then players who should be earning more during the course of their contracts. But I don't see anyone making the arguement that players should give up money because they don't deserve the contract, the blame always shifts to ownerships and management for giving the contract to begin with.

Actually agree that Scott had himself to blame and wasn't legally entitled to renegotiate a bigger deal. If he got one, it would have been as a matter of goodwill. The players union refers to saving players from themselves. Today's union is an evolution on the back of past mistakes and ignorance like the one Scottie made

Do you think the documentary makes your team look bad so far?

I don't think it makes the organization as a whole look bad, but it definitely has made Krause look bad which though in many ways deserved, I feel could have been pulled back slightly considering the man is dead and can't even tell his side of the story. Kerr said it best though,

“Jerry did a phenomenal job with the team. He made great trades, made great free agent signings,” Kerr said. “He deserves a lot of credit — but he couldn’t get out of his own way.”

which perfectly sums him up in my opinion, but again, making him seemingly the villian of the break up considering he isn't alive, albiet the truth, felt a little much.

[tondi123]

The Pippen contract situation just underlines the need for a powerful players union. The billionaires upstairs are hardcore capitalists who would split revenue 97/3 if they could and expect to be thanked for it

If a player signs a big contract but doesn't fulfill it, should the player negotiate a new contract and give up money?

As a Bulls fan, there are a lot of criticisms of the Bulls front office and ownership, but to me personally, this isn't one of them. They cautioned Scottie about not taking the contract, but but as stated in the series, Scottie had back injury concerns and wanted the security. There are plenty of players even now, who give up more money for immediate security - the only difference is the sum of money involved, no one knew that during the course of the contract that the league would balloon the way it did, so to compare contracts than and now isn't fair.

Put it this way, there are a lot more contracts which are given to players who don't deserve them, then players who should be earning more during the course of their contracts. But I don't see anyone making the arguement that players should give up money because they don't deserve the contract, the blame always shifts to ownerships and management for giving the contract to begin with.

Yeah the term "contract year" is very common for a reason. For every Pippen there a dozen guy's who get paid then take a few years off once they get paid. Never hear anyone blaming the weak players union for that do you? Wonder why that is?