Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

[Topofthekey]

Most Asian countries know, from lessons learned in the 2003 SARS epidemic, that when China says "there's nothing see here" or "there's no need to panic" then there is definitely something to see and start preparing for.

Lol

So what you're saying is, the US and the west are suffering because they were too nice and trusting

Please, do you not realize how absurd that sounds?

How about a more straight forward explanation: most Asian countries were competent in dealing with the pandemic, the US and most western countries were not

Case in point: Singapore recorded its first case of Covid-19 on Jan 23rd. Singapore immediately commenced contact tracing and testing

Meanwhile, more than ONE MONTH later, Italy still uploaded the now infamous "Milan does not stop" video onto YouTube, on February 27th
(source: https://youtu.be/kqQ0M42I_A0)

What made Singapore start contact tracing and testing immediately after the first case on 1/23? WHO was still saying no person to person infection at the time. It was the memory of SARS outbreak and the leaks from Wuhan.

I currently live in Asia, I know exactly the sentiment everyone here have regarding any official report from the CCP.

The US is suffering because of a denialist president unwilling to act in the interest of his people versus interest of corporate America. Europe is suffering because they are heavily dependent on tourism money from China, and were unwilling to close their borders until it's too late, also freedom of travel between EU members.

How about, common sense?

If you had a virus of unknown origin, spreading to multiple countries, the same virus that cause a Chinese city to go into lockdown (Wuhan went into lockdown on Jan 23rd), being detected in your country, what would you say the appropriate response should be?

A) convince yourself there is nothing to worry about, or

B) treat it like how anyone would treat a potential pandemic and start testing and contact tracing


Fact of the matter is, the entire world could see that China put Wuhan on lockdown on January 23rd, there is no ambiguity about this

Yet on January 28th, you have Trump being quoted as saying "It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear”

And again on March 10th “And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away”

And of course, the "Milan does not stop" campaign, which came more than a full month after China placing one of its cities on lockdown

Most Asian governments took it seriously and dealt with it competently. The US and the west didn't. Simple as that

Like you yourself said, Trump would rather be in denial, and Europe chose money over public health. They made their own bed

How they're trying to spin this into being somebody/something else's fault is just comical

[DowJones]

This isn't a Trump issue when it comes to America's response. Everyone was caught with their pants down. Heck, Fauci himself said he wasn't overly concerned towards the end of February. Part of that can be blamed on the lack of transparency coming out of Wuhan.

[Catchall]

What I am suggesting is that we simultaneously lock down the country for a period of time equal to the virus's incubation period. It is essentially what happened in the winter of 1919 as to the Spanish flu. Locking down part of the nation without all of the nation is doomed to fail. Opening the country up is also doomed to fail.

You have to be clear what your goal is. If the goal is simply to make sure local hospital resources are not overwhelmed with patients (i.e., flatten the curve), you can achieve that by slowing the rate of spread within the population and by increasing the relevant hospital resources. In many parts of the U.S., the combination of social distancing and ramping up hospital equipment has already achieved this.

If your goal is to eliminate the spread of the virus (i.e., eliminate the curve), then you'd have to impose draconian measures for the duration of the incubation and infection period, as you've described. Logistically, this is nearly impossible to do. In addition, the draconian measures are likely to have social, economic and public health consequences that are worse than the virus itself.

We have to do what has to be done. At Christmas in 1918, people really became shocked at the number of deaths. They weren't ordered to do anything but they knew what they had to do and that was to stay away from everyone (except for supplies and then with great care). The 1918 pandemic shook up the world and this coronanvirus is doing the same. Learn the lessons of history but don't follow in the footsteps of those who underestimate the power of this pandemic.

Well, if flattening the curve is "what has to be done," I'm happy to tell you that here in Utah we've already done it. In fact, the infections never became much of a curve to begin with.

[Catchall]

This isn't a Trump issue when it comes to America's response. Everyone was caught with their pants down. Heck, Fauci himself said he wasn't overly concerned towards the end of February. Part of that can be blamed on the lack of transparency coming out of Wuhan.

I don't think people were caught with their pants down. I think the administration, the NIH and the CDC simply conceded that millions of people were going to be exposed to this virus, particularly in a few densely populated areas, and the goal was to slow the rate of spread rather than eliminate it.

Again, the situation in New York metro is entirely different from many other areas of the country.

[Kabookalu]

This isn't a Trump issue when it comes to America's response. Everyone was caught with their pants down. Heck, Fauci himself said he wasn't overly concerned towards the end of February. Part of that can be blamed on the lack of transparency coming out of Wuhan.

WHO declared a global emergency at the end of January. No matter how tight lipped China was (and yes they are awful), that should have rung some bells. Instead we got a weak travel ban. The Europeans got screwed over by China's lack of transparency, and the US watched Europe getting screwed over.

[13th Man]

WHO, Gates Foundation and Wuhan Lab hacked. It's all over Twitter. Should be interesting!

[TunaFish]

You have to be clear what your goal is. If the goal is simply to make sure local hospital resources are not overwhelmed with patients (i.e., flatten the curve), you can achieve that by slowing the rate of spread within the population and by increasing the relevant hospital resources. In many parts of the U.S., the combination of social distancing and ramping up hospital equipment has already achieved this.

If your goal is to eliminate the spread of the virus (i.e., eliminate the curve), then you'd have to impose draconian measures for the duration of the incubation and infection period, as you've described. Logistically, this is nearly impossible to do. In addition, the draconian measures are likely to have social, economic and public health consequences that are worse than the virus itself.

We have to do what has to be done. At Christmas in 1918, people really became shocked at the number of deaths. They weren't ordered to do anything but they knew what they had to do and that was to stay away from everyone (except for supplies and then with great care). The 1918 pandemic shook up the world and this coronanvirus is doing the same. Learn the lessons of history but don't follow in the footsteps of those who underestimate the power of this pandemic.

Well, if flattening the curve is "what has to be done," I'm happy to tell you that here in Utah we've already done it. In fact, the infections never became much of a curve to begin with.

We had the first death in the U.S. just over two months ago. We are over 40,000 now. Hard to say where we will be in another two months but ending this virus, not happening by a long shot. Rural areas will probably be the last to be hit. Estimates for deaths by August 1, 2020 are for above 60,000 and that is if there are stay at home orders. There likely will not and this virus will leap out like lion.

I don't know how happy you will be in a few months but if they lift these stay at home orders too soon, you won't be too happy.

[Tiny ball]

https://cloverchronicle.com/2020/04/21/so-it-was-a-hoax-fox-news-john-roberts-caught-on-hot-mic-discussing-covid-19-mortality-rate-with-technician/

Also from that esteemed website: Is Anthony Fauci a freemason? Everyone in government is corrupted. You think Epstein was blackmailing small children after they were raped? How stupid are you? They are near all screwing little boys and girls they are all or near all under the thumb of their controllers. Side with the child rapers. Enjoy your communist new world order.

[Tiny ball]

We have to do what has to be done. At Christmas in 1918, people really became shocked at the number of deaths. They weren't ordered to do anything but they knew what they had to do and that was to stay away from everyone (except for supplies and then with great care). The 1918 pandemic shook up the world and this coronanvirus is doing the same. Learn the lessons of history but don't follow in the footsteps of those who underestimate the power of this pandemic.

Well, if flattening the curve is "what has to be done," I'm happy to tell you that here in Utah we've already done it. In fact, the infections never became much of a curve to begin with.

We had the first death in the U.S. just over two months ago. We are over 40,000 now. Hard to say where we will be in another two months but ending this virus, not happening by a long shot. Rural areas will probably be the last to be hit. Estimates for deaths by August 1, 2020 are for above 60,000 and that is if there are stay at home orders. There likely will not and this virus will leap out like lion.

I don't know how happy you will be in a few months but if they lift these stay at home orders too soon, you won't be too happy.

Oh no someone might get the sniffles. Live in fear of the sniffles. Just don't get in the way of people that do not fear the sniffles. If your brain cannot handle the propaganda that oozes from your tv set turn it off. Don't be a brainwashed brain dead mind controlled programmed idiot.

[BadMofoPimp]

This isn't a Trump issue when it comes to America's response. Everyone was caught with their pants down. Heck, Fauci himself said he wasn't overly concerned towards the end of February. Part of that can be blamed on the lack of transparency coming out of Wuhan.

Even our Mass Media, Left and right wing politicians were more concerned with Impeachment until February. Heck, people from both sides were criticizing the ban on China travel on January 26th as racist.

[BadMofoPimp]

Well, if flattening the curve is "what has to be done," I'm happy to tell you that here in Utah we've already done it. In fact, the infections never became much of a curve to begin with.

We had the first death in the U.S. just over two months ago. We are over 40,000 now. Hard to say where we will be in another two months but ending this virus, not happening by a long shot. Rural areas will probably be the last to be hit. Estimates for deaths by August 1, 2020 are for above 60,000 and that is if there are stay at home orders. There likely will not and this virus will leap out like lion.

I don't know how happy you will be in a few months but if they lift these stay at home orders too soon, you won't be too happy.

Oh no someone might get the sniffles. Live in fear of the sniffles. Just don't get in the way of people that do not fear the sniffles. If your brain cannot handle the propaganda that oozes from your tv set turn it off. Don't be a brainwashed brain dead mind controlled programmed idiot.

I was eating lunch and drinking soda when something went down the wrong tube. Oh no, everyone looking at me like I got Coronavirus!!!

[Catchall]

We have to do what has to be done. At Christmas in 1918, people really became shocked at the number of deaths. They weren't ordered to do anything but they knew what they had to do and that was to stay away from everyone (except for supplies and then with great care). The 1918 pandemic shook up the world and this coronanvirus is doing the same. Learn the lessons of history but don't follow in the footsteps of those who underestimate the power of this pandemic.

Well, if flattening the curve is "what has to be done," I'm happy to tell you that here in Utah we've already done it. In fact, the infections never became much of a curve to begin with.

We had the first death in the U.S. just over two months ago. We are over 40,000 now. Hard to say where we will be in another two months but ending this virus, not happening by a long shot. Rural areas will probably be the last to be hit. Estimates for deaths by August 1, 2020 are for above 60,000 and that is if there are stay at home orders. There likely will not and this virus will leap out like lion.

I don't know how happy you will be in a few months but if they lift these stay at home orders too soon, you won't be too happy.

I'll repeat myself: No one is trying to end the virus. It was never a possibility. They're just trying to flatten the curve so hospitals don't get overwhelmed with patients all at once.

This LA Times article below refers to a Northern California anti-body study which concludes that the real number of Covid19 infections is at least 50 times greater than the number of confirmed cases. If this is true, it means that the real fatality rate from the U.S. strain of Covid19 is in the 0.1% range.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-17/coronavirus-antibodies-study-santa-clara-county

[dhsilv2]

This isn't a Trump issue when it comes to America's response. Everyone was caught with their pants down. Heck, Fauci himself said he wasn't overly concerned towards the end of February. Part of that can be blamed on the lack of transparency coming out of Wuhan.

It was WELL known that this was a major deal and coming honestly by min jan, but certainly by the end of it. Worse is that it had been brought up that this kind of thing was more likely that not and that the US wasn't ready. It's not political to be critical of government's when they aren't ready for disasters, especially ones they absolutely should have been aware of, not months but years prior. There's no excuse for the US to have not restrocked masks from the last event that happened under the prior administration. This isn't some budget destroying expense. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone should get criticized at some point, that's just part of life and being in leadership. This was a big screw up and it seems the US is still playing catch up.

[Catchall]

WHO, Gates Foundation and Wuhan Lab hacked. It's all over Twitter. Should be interesting!

Is anyone talking about George Soros allegedly giving $100M to the bio-research facility in Wuhan where they were doing studies on bat coronaviruses?

[Neutral 123]

This isn't a Trump issue when it comes to America's response. Everyone was caught with their pants down. Heck, Fauci himself said he wasn't overly concerned towards the end of February. Part of that can be blamed on the lack of transparency coming out of Wuhan.

It was WELL known that this was a major deal and coming honestly by min jan, but certainly by the end of it. Worse is that it had been brought up that this kind of thing was more likely that not and that the US wasn't ready. It's not political to be critical of government's when they aren't ready for disasters, especially ones they absolutely should have been aware of, not months but years prior. There's no excuse for the US to have not restrocked masks from the last event that happened under the prior administration. This isn't some budget destroying expense. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone should get criticized at some point, that's just part of life and being in leadership. This was a big screw up and it seems the US is still playing catch up.

Yep. The general public knew by mid January. Those paying attention anyways. No way leaders had no idea what was going on. A failure of all world leadership. Trump should absolutely be held accountable.

[Neutral 123]

WHO, Gates Foundation and Wuhan Lab hacked. It's all over Twitter. Should be interesting!

Is anyone talking about George Soros allegedly giving $100M to the bio-research facility in Wuhan where they were doing studies on bat coronaviruses?

Lol this guy is alleged to give hundreds of millions or even billions to anything a certain group don't like. None of that would change that absolute failure of world leaders to act. Maybe he gave them all a hundred million each too?

[Catchall]

WHO, Gates Foundation and Wuhan Lab hacked. It's all over Twitter. Should be interesting!

Is anyone talking about George Soros allegedly giving $100M to the bio-research facility in Wuhan where they were doing studies on bat coronaviruses?

Lol this guy is alleged to give hundreds of millions or even billions to anything a certain group don't like. None of that would change that absolute failure of world leaders to act. Maybe he gave them all a hundred million each too?

Nah, I heard it was just $100M total...

[BadMofoPimp]

This isn't a Trump issue when it comes to America's response. Everyone was caught with their pants down. Heck, Fauci himself said he wasn't overly concerned towards the end of February. Part of that can be blamed on the lack of transparency coming out of Wuhan.

It was WELL known that this was a major deal and coming honestly by min jan, but certainly by the end of it. Worse is that it had been brought up that this kind of thing was more likely that not and that the US wasn't ready. It's not political to be critical of government's when they aren't ready for disasters, especially ones they absolutely should have been aware of, not months but years prior. There's no excuse for the US to have not restrocked masks from the last event that happened under the prior administration. This isn't some budget destroying expense. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone should get criticized at some point, that's just part of life and being in leadership. This was a big screw up and it seems the US is still playing catch up.

I remember mid to late January up into February very well. Nobody was thinking the Virus was a big deal including the Who. Mainly because, the Chinese Government was declaring it was no big deal and they had it under control. But now, mass media will make it like we knew all along that a disaster was coming, but I remember well, the news wasn't saying jack back the nor a single world leader of any impending worldwide disaster.

[Neutral 123]

This isn't a Trump issue when it comes to America's response. Everyone was caught with their pants down. Heck, Fauci himself said he wasn't overly concerned towards the end of February. Part of that can be blamed on the lack of transparency coming out of Wuhan.

It was WELL known that this was a major deal and coming honestly by min jan, but certainly by the end of it. Worse is that it had been brought up that this kind of thing was more likely that not and that the US wasn't ready. It's not political to be critical of government's when they aren't ready for disasters, especially ones they absolutely should have been aware of, not months but years prior. There's no excuse for the US to have not restrocked masks from the last event that happened under the prior administration. This isn't some budget destroying expense. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone should get criticized at some point, that's just part of life and being in leadership. This was a big screw up and it seems the US is still playing catch up.

I remember mid to late January up into February very well. Nobody was thinking the Virus was a big deal including the Who. Mainly because, the Chinese Government was declaring it was no big deal and they had it under control. But now, mass media will make it like we knew all along that a disaster was coming, but I remember well, the news wasn't saying jack back the nor a single world leader of any impending worldwide disaster.

That's correct. None of the so called experts, leaders or media were making a big deal. But there were plenty of credible reports coming out of China that this was serious. The average person had to go and find these things, but it was fairly easy stuff to find.

And as cases began, leaders refused to act calling it low risk while China was welding people's doors to keep them in their homes.

[Neutral 123]

Is anyone talking about George Soros allegedly giving $100M to the bio-research facility in Wuhan where they were doing studies on bat coronaviruses?

Lol this guy is alleged to give hundreds of millions or even billions to anything a certain group don't like. None of that would change that absolute failure of world leaders to act. Maybe he gave them all a hundred million each too?

Nah, I heard it was just $100M total...

You should Google him. He's linked to funding dozens of things. His name just seems to pop up all the time. He's like the boogedy man.