Mikal Bridges says LeBron would get 90 a game against 86' Celtics (Burning Bridges ?)

[HotRocks34]

Just thought of the proper way to think about those Celtics against any LeBron-led team we've seen.

It would be like the 2014 Spurs against the 2014 Heat.

Except the celtics passing and movement wasn't on par with the spurs. Nor did they have the spurs spacing/shooting.

I'm going to assume you didn't watch the 1986 Celtics in real time, as I did.

Their passing was about on the level of the dynasty Warriors. Here's a look at team assists per game for teams that averaged at least 28 per game as a team:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tsl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=team_totals&lg_id=NBA&c1stat=ast_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=28&order_by=wins

Click on the assist category in "team per game" to sort by APG for the teams.

But, unlike the Warriors, the Celtics were a dominant passing team while still playing "big ball." They were huge up front, but still moved the ball about as well as any team ever has. It was incredible to watch.

The 2014 Spurs were a better three-point shooting team than the 1986 Celtics, I'll give you that. But whatever they may have lacked (in the comparison; Celtics were the #1 three-point shooting team in the league that year) in that regard to the Spurs, they would make up from their front-line scoring. Bird/McHale/Parish averaged 63 PPG combined, and this was prime McHale who could not be stopped in the paint.

In no circumstance would I pick the 2014 Spurs to beat the 1986 Celtics in a series. That's not happening. The relative team SRS's were Boston 9.06 and the Spurs 8.00

The two teams are comparable, though. Look at the other team ratings:

BOS ORTG = 111.8
BOS DRTG = 102.6
BOS NRTG = +9.2

SAS ORTG = 110.5
SAS DRTG = 102.4
SAS NRTG = +8.1


Boston the better inside team and better passing team, Spurs the better shooting team. Both had best-in-the-league or near it defenses. Also Celtics the better rebounding team.

No team that LeBron has played on would have a prayer against the 1986 Celtics. It would be a rout. But that's not a knock on him. Almost no team in history could hang with the 1986 Celtics. Only the absolute most elite teams in NBA history could hang with the 1986 Celtics. None of LeBron's teams nor the 2014 Spurs are in that category.

The Celtics that year led the league in Defensive Rating, 3P% and APG. They were #2 in FT%. They had no weaknesses. They could punish you on both offense and defense. And they had the 3-years-running league MVP.

Some people consider the 1986 Celtics the greatest team of all time. If they're not, they're extremely close to it. Here's one writer on that topic:

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/06/07/bob-ryan-why-1986-celtics-are-the-greatest-team-of-all-time/

[LakerLegend]

With or without Steroids?

[LakerLegend]

Someone remind Bridges what a bunch of old men did against LeBron in the 2011 and 2014 Finals.

[so_bored]

Bridges is exaggerating, but I think the larger point he’s making, which is accurate, is that there wasn’t a team in the 80’s that would’ve been able to stop LeBron James, who has all the guard skills and athleticism you could ever want in a massive 6’9 260 pound body that could dominate from every spot on the floor.

That type of mutant, sci-fi, superhero player only existed in imaginations in the 1980s.

Relative to LeBron, Jordan was small and frail. In 1986 MJ was 6'5 195 pounds. MJ even looks tiny in his highlights from 1986.

Teams could beat MJ by being physical with him and it worked famously.

It forced MJ to hit the weight room to get strong and little bit more like Bron (tho no amount of weightlifting could turn MJ into LBJ).

Next (at the behest of Phil Jackson) MJ would go on to further change his game to become more of a team player... ala LeBron James.

Only after MJ did those things (become more like Bron) did he start to become a winning player.

You're so blinded it's ridiculous. Lebron, as big as he is, plays a very finesses game. He rarely challenges the opposing centers near the rim, he always wants them cleared out. Whereas MJ will try to dunk on you no matter the size. Lebron doesn't like to bang bodies in the post. He doesn't even really try to fight for rebounds. He would not flourish in the 80's let alone more physical 90's. He has already shown he has trouble against shot blockers ala Hibbert, Tyson Chandler etc. 80's and 90's teams had multiple 7 footers at all times. No way he would shoot 65%+ around the rim like he is today. MJ bulked up because of all the illegal physical beating the Pistons gave him, not because he struggle to get to the rim. What a joke.

Your totally right. A four time league MVP would not flourish in the 80s.

Lebron has always struggled against teams that packed the paint. Always. His first Finals against the Spurs, 2011 Finals against Dallas, and even against the KG's Celtics and KG wasn't even a legitimate 7 footer. Teams in 80s and 90s always had multiple 7 footers on the floor at all times. Go look up the number of MJ's shot attempts in the paint against the Pistons or the Knicks in 90's playoffs. It was around 5 a game. MJ had to settle for mid range game. It was incredibly difficult to get to the paint as a perimeter player against teams like them because they were simply no spacing at all. It's why teams had to dump the ball down low to post players as that was the most efficient shot at the time, and teams with great centers always were able to contend for titles. Lebron simply doesn't possess the offensive arsenal as MJ to score in volume without any spacing. Lebron today is shooting God like 70% at the rim. There is no way he can come close to that number in the 80's and 90's especially if you can't even get to the rim freely like he can today. Tell me how he is going to average 26/11 when he can only get five or so attempt at the rim?

[Quattro]

Can’t wait for ESPNs 8 part feature on Lebron a decade from now. Most of the footage will be of Lebron working the phones in the off season to try and convince players to come help him win titles. Should be fascinating.

[fanofthegreats]

You're so blinded it's ridiculous. Lebron, as big as he is, plays a very finesses game. He rarely challenges the opposing centers near the rim, he always wants them cleared out. Whereas MJ will try to dunk on you no matter the size. Lebron doesn't like to bang bodies in the post. He doesn't even really try to fight for rebounds. He would not flourish in the 80's let alone more physical 90's. He has already shown he has trouble against shot blockers ala Hibbert, Tyson Chandler etc. 80's and 90's teams had multiple 7 footers at all times. No way he would shoot 65%+ around the rim like he is today. MJ bulked up because of all the illegal physical beating the Pistons gave him, not because he struggle to get to the rim. What a joke.

Your totally right. A four time league MVP would not flourish in the 80s.

Lebron has always struggled against teams that packed the paint. Always. His first Finals against the Spurs, 2011 Finals against Dallas, and even against the KG's Celtics and KG wasn't even a legitimate 7 footer. Teams in 80s and 90s always had multiple 7 footers on the floor at all times. Go look up the number of MJ's shot attempts in the paint against the Pistons or the Knicks in 90's playoffs. It was around 5 a game. MJ had to settle for mid range game. It was incredibly difficult to get to the paint as a perimeter player against teams like them because they were simply no spacing at all. It's why teams had to dump the ball down low to post players as that was the most efficient shot at the time, and teams with great centers always were able to contend for titles. Lebron simply doesn't possess the offensive arsenal as MJ to score in volume without any spacing. Lebron today is shooting God like 70% at the rim. There is no way he can come close to that number in the 80's and 90's especially if you can't even get to the rim freely like he can today. Tell me how he is going to average 26/11 when he can only get five or so attempt at the rim?

You win. You’ve figured out what no other NBA teams haven’t for the past 15 years. Clog the paint on LeBron and he will struggle to avg 10 ppg

[so_bored]

Your totally right. A four time league MVP would not flourish in the 80s.

Lebron has always struggled against teams that packed the paint. Always. His first Finals against the Spurs, 2011 Finals against Dallas, and even against the KG's Celtics and KG wasn't even a legitimate 7 footer. Teams in 80s and 90s always had multiple 7 footers on the floor at all times. Go look up the number of MJ's shot attempts in the paint against the Pistons or the Knicks in 90's playoffs. It was around 5 a game. MJ had to settle for mid range game. It was incredibly difficult to get to the paint as a perimeter player against teams like them because they were simply no spacing at all. It's why teams had to dump the ball down low to post players as that was the most efficient shot at the time, and teams with great centers always were able to contend for titles. Lebron simply doesn't possess the offensive arsenal as MJ to score in volume without any spacing. Lebron today is shooting God like 70% at the rim. There is no way he can come close to that number in the 80's and 90's especially if you can't even get to the rim freely like he can today. Tell me how he is going to average 26/11 when he can only get five or so attempt at the rim?

You win. You’ve figured out what no other NBA teams haven’t for the past 15 years. Clog the paint on LeBron and he will struggle to avg 10 ppg

Funny how, your only rebuttal is to be sarcastic with emojis at the end. Lebron did only score 8 points in Finals one time, so you may be right on point.

[fanofthegreats]

Lebron has always struggled against teams that packed the paint. Always. His first Finals against the Spurs, 2011 Finals against Dallas, and even against the KG's Celtics and KG wasn't even a legitimate 7 footer. Teams in 80s and 90s always had multiple 7 footers on the floor at all times. Go look up the number of MJ's shot attempts in the paint against the Pistons or the Knicks in 90's playoffs. It was around 5 a game. MJ had to settle for mid range game. It was incredibly difficult to get to the paint as a perimeter player against teams like them because they were simply no spacing at all. It's why teams had to dump the ball down low to post players as that was the most efficient shot at the time, and teams with great centers always were able to contend for titles. Lebron simply doesn't possess the offensive arsenal as MJ to score in volume without any spacing. Lebron today is shooting God like 70% at the rim. There is no way he can come close to that number in the 80's and 90's especially if you can't even get to the rim freely like he can today. Tell me how he is going to average 26/11 when he can only get five or so attempt at the rim?

You win. You’ve figured out what no other NBA teams haven’t for the past 15 years. Clog the paint on LeBron and he will struggle to avg 10 ppg

Funny how, your only rebuttal is to be sarcastic with emojis at the end. Lebron did only score 8 points in Finals one time, so you may be right on point.

I find no reason to introduce honest debate into hot takes and unreasonable assertions. Good day sir

[dacrusha]

Why the defense of the 80's and early 90's gets conflated with the defense of the late 90's and early 00's, i will never understand. The 80's played at a faster pace than the break neck one that we have today, with worse athletes and much, much poorer defensive strategy.

Ya, Lebron would dominate

100%

Today’s defenses are many times more sophisticated than that era plus the players are way more athletic.

Lebron would destroy teams of the 80s who each had half a roster of plodding, oaf-sized players that wouldn’t even get a tryout in the Chinese league today.

[so_bored]

You win. You’ve figured out what no other NBA teams haven’t for the past 15 years. Clog the paint on LeBron and he will struggle to avg 10 ppg

Funny how, your only rebuttal is to be sarcastic with emojis at the end. Lebron did only score 8 points in Finals one time, so you may be right on point.

I find no reason to introduce honest debate into hot takes and unreasonable assertions. Good day sir

Yet you still find reasons to post on this thread. BTW, you forgot to include your emoji.

[fanofthegreats]

Why the defense of the 80's and early 90's gets conflated with the defense of the late 90's and early 00's, i will never understand. The 80's played at a faster pace than the break neck one that we have today, with worse athletes and much, much poorer defensive strategy.

Ya, Lebron would dominate

100%

Today’s defenses are many times more sophisticated than that era plus the players are way more athletic.

Lebron would destroy teams of the 80s who each had half a roster of plodding, oaf-sized players that wouldn’t even get a tryout in the Chinese league today.

Lol. Yep. Say that to the poster above who believes LeBron wouldn’t generate more than 5 shots per game in the paint in the 80s. An era where far inferior players lived in the paint. But no not LeBron, what a total scrub.

[Flopper]

Lebron would dominate in any era, but we've seen how dependent his game can be on spacing for clean looks on drives. He would've had to play much differently in a league where most teams had giant frontcourts, bigs could camp the lane all day, and 3 point shooting was scarce. Even at his absolute peak, I don't think he would've been fast enough or a comfortable enough at midrange to create easy looks against those Celtics with a garbage supporting cast like young MJ did.

[HMFFL]

Can’t wait for ESPNs 8 part feature on Lebron a decade from now. Most of the footage will be of Lebron working the phones in the off season to try and convince players to come help him win titles. Should be fascinating.

Many of the key pieces to his feature would be his amazing marketing team. It's one of the main reasons he's has his name linked to everything. He probably has the best marketing team out of any American athletes.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[so_bored]

Why the defense of the 80's and early 90's gets conflated with the defense of the late 90's and early 00's, i will never understand. The 80's played at a faster pace than the break neck one that we have today, with worse athletes and much, much poorer defensive strategy.

Ya, Lebron would dominate

100%

Today’s defenses are many times more sophisticated than that era plus the players are way more athletic.

Lebron would destroy teams of the 80s who each had half a roster of plodding, oaf-sized players that wouldn’t even get a tryout in the Chinese league today.

Sophisticated defenses and more athletic players are simply negated by the spacing offenses create. Go watch the latest 4th quarter of Lakers vs Pelicans game. Yes, Lebron dominated 4th quarter. But if you take a closer look, Lakers ran bunch of switches to create mismatches for Lebron and cleared the entire floor for him with bunch of shooters. Lebron pretty much had entire court to drive the lane with absolutely nobody near the paint to protect the rim. He was simply allowed to feast at the open rim all quarter. You simply can not create this kind of offense in the 80s and 90s. It's not possible. Try running this kind of offense against Ewing, Oakley, and X-men on the court at the same time like the 90s Knicks with no spacing from your offense.

You want to talk about more athletic defenders? Yeah, let's put Kawhi to slow down Lebron. Won't do any good when Lebron can simply call screens endlessly until he gets a favorable matchup. Yeah, Lebron has it sooooo hard today.

[TimRobbins]

Nobody in the 08s/90s would be able to deal with Lebron's superior physical gifts. Lebron would do well in every era.

[Jables]

Of all the teams to pick, whenever you think you've got **** takes on basketball remember this one!

[Winsome Gerbil]

I'm sure when you average 8 points a game in one of the fastest paces in decades that anybody scoring 20 or more must seem like 90 its so far from your reality.

[MrSparkle]

I think the 86 Celtics would shred apart any team Lebron has ever had the pleasure of super-packing, kinda like the Mavs, Spurs and Warriors did. One danger is they don't have a defender for Lebron, but that said, I think they give him the 86 MJ treatment. Let him score like crazy, and make it a 5-on-1 game. Wade's incredible but he wouldn't space. As good a passer as Lebron is, I don't think the Celtics would let his team get into any offensive flow.

For a guy with fantastic technical ability in seemingly every category, I can't think of a less fundamentally sound basketball superstar in the pantheon of the top-10 greats. Lebron has elite assist-vision and scoring ability, but he doesn't have the clean foot-work and on/off-ball play-making of the all-time greats.

MJ, Bird, Magic, Duncan, Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem

I'll put Lebron in the top-10 when his career is done, but honestly, I put him second to last in fundamentals from that group (just in front of Shaq). His dominant physical gifts are about 99% what separates him from every all-star wing. Kawhi, Luka and Durant are far more fundamentally sound players.

[Repeat 3-peat]

23 year old LeBron averaged 22 points on 35% shooting vs the Spurs in the finals.

So he'll score 90 points(so stupid ) vs the all time Celtics? uh no.

[so_bored]

Why the defense of the 80's and early 90's gets conflated with the defense of the late 90's and early 00's, i will never understand. The 80's played at a faster pace than the break neck one that we have today, with worse athletes and much, much poorer defensive strategy.

Ya, Lebron would dominate

100%

Today’s defenses are many times more sophisticated than that era plus the players are way more athletic.

Lebron would destroy teams of the 80s who each had half a roster of plodding, oaf-sized players that wouldn’t even get a tryout in the Chinese league today.

Lol. Yep. Say that to the poster above who believes LeBron wouldn’t generate more than 5 shots per game in the paint in the 80s. An era where far inferior players lived in the paint. But no not LeBron, what a total scrub.

Lol you're one of those guys that just look at the raw number and think apples and oranges are the same. If you didn't know, Lebron likes to initiate from the top of the key. Whether he is passing or scoring, he always tries to drive lane. However, you seem to not get that lanes were absolutely clogged up in the 80s and 90s making it much more difficult for someone like Lebron to operate. Also, unlike many perimeter players back then, Lebron is not a slasher off ball to receive more looks near the rim. He would have to settle for post ups, but he is not a comfortable back to the rim player. He is and has always been a front of the rim player. Many of the inferior players you mentioned lived and roamed near the paint by moving without the ball constantly and received the ball close to the hoop to begin with, unlike Lebron who always has the ball and starts from the top. But keep counting your apples and oranges together buddy.