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2020 Draft

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#781 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:54 pm

Dat2U wrote:I honestly haven't scouted Vassell thoroughly yet but it's a major red flag if a perimeter player cannot create a shot for himself or others.

I can't think of one recently successful perimeter player who had such limited skill.



Klay Thompson?
Khris Middleton?

Admittedly, those are high end comparisons for a limited player like him. Robert Covington seems a more likely outcome.

Vassell seems most useful on a team with a primary creator already aboard.

Sam Vecenie wrote:Devin Vassell | 6-5 wing | 20 years old, sophomore | Florida State

Few players helped themselves more this season than Vassell. The only thing that could slow his rise up draft boards, unfortunately, is the season ending so abruptly. He brings an awful lot to the table and his game looks like a pretty simplistic fit in the modern NBA. It would no longer be a shock to see him end up in the late lottery. I’d put his range somewhere from 12 to 25.

He’s a big wing with a ton of length who can hit well over 40 percent from 3 and has great length while defending at a solid clip. His numbers look a bit pedestrian, averaging 12.7 points and 5.1 rebounds per game, but Florida State’s offense really tended to spread things around. And the whole idea of Vassell is that he’s a tailor-made role player due to his elite-level shooting ability, as Vassell hit 41.5 percent of his 3s this season. And beyond that, he’s an absolutely terrific wing defender with strong lateral quickness. He’s also a playmaker on that end of the floor, averaging 1.4 steals and 1.0 blocks. The list of players to do what Vassell did over the last 30 years in a high-major league is seven names long and includes Shane Battier, Danny Green, Wes Johnson, Mikal Bridges, Demetris Nichols and Markelle Fultz. And if you include mid-majors, you see Paul George, Danny Granger and Robert Covington pop up. Basically, this is your patented 3-and-D player, and NBA teams continue to have a very real need for these guys.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#782 » by jangles86 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:48 am

Heavy loaded PG lottery.

I wouldn’t be upset selecting RJ Hampton at our pick. He’s a level headed kid whose got solid professional experience so far. Reminds me of a SGA type of guard. Very smooth and makes good decisions going down hill. Would be a solid fit.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#783 » by babyjax13 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:59 am

Shoe wrote:
Hibachi_0 wrote:Hi everyone! I've been reading you all for a while but never commented.

There's an international prospect from which I haven't read much in any mock draft or scouting report : Leandro Bolmaro

Bolmaro is a 6' 7" guard currently playing for Barcelona(not having many minutes in a team full of euroleague stars, but playing well when given the oportunity) who could have declared for last year's draft but decided to remain in Europe and has just declared for this one.

He's listed as SG, however has played a lot of minutes as PG because of his great passing instincts and correct ball-handling skills. His socring ability really needs to be polished, but has the physical tools, the "touch" to improve. Leandro isn't a great shooter right now, but has good mechanics and has been really improving recently, specially in spot ups. Defensively, I have not seen enough of him to form an opinion about positioning, but is a good 1-on-1 defender with really active hands and quicker feet than what might seem for a 6' 7" player from Argentina.

I think it would be interseting to use our 2nd in him, he can turn into a really interesting player.

Here there's some footage of him with Barcelona's first and second teams:





Excellent early find. I've seen him mocked in the first round now. The lefty hesitation is next level.

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We love Bolmaro on the Jazz board, he looks fantastic. I think he will rise into the first round, and I'm curious if he can rise into the lottery.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#784 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:29 am

babyjax13 wrote:We love Bolmaro on the Jazz board, he looks fantastic. I think he will rise into the first round, and I'm curious if he can rise into the lottery.


Interesting. What player comps do you see in him realistically?

The Athletic scouting report on him...

Sam Vecenie wrote:Leandro Bolmaro | 6-8 forward | 19 years old, international | Barcelona B

There is some real momentum behind Bolmaro as a guy who could get into the mix late in the first round, but I’m not really sure I get it this season. He hasn’t quite earned a real rotation spot for Barcelona’s Euroleague team. Scouts who have gone overseas have been unhappy with the fact that there is no consistency in his role, and thus it’s hard for them to get a chance to see him. When he’s gotten long run, it’s largely been with Barcelona’s B team, which plays in the third division of Spanish hoops. And even in that limited time, he’s shooting under 30 percent from 3 and has a negative assist-to-turnover ratio.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#785 » by Shoe » Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:38 am

babyjax13 wrote:
Shoe wrote:
Hibachi_0 wrote:Hi everyone! I've been reading you all for a while but never commented.

There's an international prospect from which I haven't read much in any mock draft or scouting report : Leandro Bolmaro

Bolmaro is a 6' 7" guard currently playing for Barcelona(not having many minutes in a team full of euroleague stars, but playing well when given the oportunity) who could have declared for last year's draft but decided to remain in Europe and has just declared for this one.

He's listed as SG, however has played a lot of minutes as PG because of his great passing instincts and correct ball-handling skills. His socring ability really needs to be polished, but has the physical tools, the "touch" to improve. Leandro isn't a great shooter right now, but has good mechanics and has been really improving recently, specially in spot ups. Defensively, I have not seen enough of him to form an opinion about positioning, but is a good 1-on-1 defender with really active hands and quicker feet than what might seem for a 6' 7" player from Argentina.

I think it would be interseting to use our 2nd in him, he can turn into a really interesting player.

Here there's some footage of him with Barcelona's first and second teams:





Excellent early find. I've seen him mocked in the first round now. The lefty hesitation is next level.

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We love Bolmaro on the Jazz board, he looks fantastic. I think he will rise into the first round, and I'm curious if he can rise into the lottery.


He's got a sick handle, and this guy thinks he can be a great defender.

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#786 » by babyjax13 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:46 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:We love Bolmaro on the Jazz board, he looks fantastic. I think he will rise into the first round, and I'm curious if he can rise into the lottery.


Interesting. What player comps do you see in him realistically?

The Athletic scouting report on him...

Sam Vecenie wrote:Leandro Bolmaro | 6-8 forward | 19 years old, international | Barcelona B

There is some real momentum behind Bolmaro as a guy who could get into the mix late in the first round, but I’m not really sure I get it this season. He hasn’t quite earned a real rotation spot for Barcelona’s Euroleague team. Scouts who have gone overseas have been unhappy with the fact that there is no consistency in his role, and thus it’s hard for them to get a chance to see him. When he’s gotten long run, it’s largely been with Barcelona’s B team, which plays in the third division of Spanish hoops. And even in that limited time, he’s shooting under 30 percent from 3 and has a negative assist-to-turnover ratio.
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I like the comps on the Ringer: shades of Evan Turner and Joe Ingles. If he can develop a shot (it doesn't look broken) he looks like a very nice player on offense. Defense is where I'm worried. But, I'm highlight scouting, so realistically I don't have a good window into what kind of player he will ultimately be. But I've seen some passes that are eerily reminiscent of Manu and De'Angelo Russell.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#787 » by Ruzious » Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:18 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Dat2U wrote:I honestly haven't scouted Vassell thoroughly yet but it's a major red flag if a perimeter player cannot create a shot for himself or others.

I can't think of one recently successful perimeter player who had such limited skill.



Klay Thompson?
Khris Middleton?

Admittedly, those are high end comparisons for a limited player like him. Robert Covington seems a more likely outcome.

Vassell seems most useful on a team with a primary creator already aboard.

Sam Vecenie wrote:Devin Vassell | 6-5 wing | 20 years old, sophomore | Florida State

Few players helped themselves more this season than Vassell. The only thing that could slow his rise up draft boards, unfortunately, is the season ending so abruptly. He brings an awful lot to the table and his game looks like a pretty simplistic fit in the modern NBA. It would no longer be a shock to see him end up in the late lottery. I’d put his range somewhere from 12 to 25.

He’s a big wing with a ton of length who can hit well over 40 percent from 3 and has great length while defending at a solid clip. His numbers look a bit pedestrian, averaging 12.7 points and 5.1 rebounds per game, but Florida State’s offense really tended to spread things around. And the whole idea of Vassell is that he’s a tailor-made role player due to his elite-level shooting ability, as Vassell hit 41.5 percent of his 3s this season. And beyond that, he’s an absolutely terrific wing defender with strong lateral quickness. He’s also a playmaker on that end of the floor, averaging 1.4 steals and 1.0 blocks. The list of players to do what Vassell did over the last 30 years in a high-major league is seven names long and includes Shane Battier, Danny Green, Wes Johnson, Mikal Bridges, Demetris Nichols and Markelle Fultz. And if you include mid-majors, you see Paul George, Danny Granger and Robert Covington pop up. Basically, this is your patented 3-and-D player, and NBA teams continue to have a very real need for these guys.
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From day 1, I compared Vassell to Danny Green. I stand by that. Middleton is not a good comp. :D
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#788 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:40 pm

Ruzious wrote:From day 1, I compared Vassell to Danny Green. I stand by that. Middleton is not a good comp. :D


Noted.

FTR, that Middleton comp is from The Ringer's draft guide. Not me.
Spoiler:
One of the best defenders in this year’s class, with a developing offensive game that could make him more than just a shooter.

Shades Of: Khris Middleton, Robert Covington, Matisse Thybulle

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#789 » by payitforward » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:02 pm

Vassell to Danny Green in interesting. Obviously, you'd have to look at Green's numbers as a Freshman & Sophomore to see whether their performances were really similar.

One problem is that Danny Green didn't establish himself in the league for a number of years. His 3d year in the league, alreadyd 24 years of age, he got minutes & played extremely well.

Something to think about?

In any case, we wouldn't be picking Vassell @#9, so it's a matter of whether/how we trade down.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#790 » by payitforward » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:04 pm

jangles86 wrote:Heavy loaded PG lottery.

I wouldn’t be upset selecting RJ Hampton at our pick. He’s a level headed kid whose got solid professional experience so far. Reminds me of a SGA type of guard. Very smooth and makes good decisions going down hill. Would be a solid fit.

At this point, however, I wouldn't take him over Haliburton -- but TH may not be there.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#791 » by Dat2U » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:09 pm

Khris Middleton could always create a shot. Klay can create shot. They may be limited in creating fire others but both were big time college scorers.

Ruz's Danny Green comparison is a good one. Even Danny took a while and had to improve his handle to stick.

The Bolmaro kid I like alot. Top 10 may be a little too high for him but his height/skill profile stands out among a crowded group of guards.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#792 » by Ruzious » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:14 pm

payitforward wrote:Vassell to Danny Green in interesting. Obviously, you'd have to look at Green's numbers as a Freshman & Sophomore to see whether their performances were really similar.

One problem is that Danny Green didn't establish himself in the league for a number of years. His 3d year in the league, alreadyd 24 years of age, he got minutes & played extremely well.

Something to think about?

In any case, we wouldn't be picking Vassell @#9, so it's a matter of whether/how we trade down.

Not really, nobody follows the exact path that somebody else follows. Can't just look at stats; gotta also look at skills and athuhleticism when projecting a player.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#793 » by Shoe » Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:29 pm

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#794 » by youngWizzy » Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:34 pm

Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:Vassell to Danny Green in interesting. Obviously, you'd have to look at Green's numbers as a Freshman & Sophomore to see whether their performances were really similar.

One problem is that Danny Green didn't establish himself in the league for a number of years. His 3d year in the league, alreadyd 24 years of age, he got minutes & played extremely well.

Something to think about?

In any case, we wouldn't be picking Vassell @#9, so it's a matter of whether/how we trade down.

Not really, nobody follows the exact path that somebody else follows. Can't just look at stats; gotta also look at skills and athuhleticism when projecting a player.


He seems more of a combination of multiple players rather than one. I see some similarities with Zhaire Smith and Chuma Okeke statistically. Physically he seems like a smaller Mikal Bridges.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#795 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:31 am

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#796 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:33 am

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Welcome to the elite, Onyeka Okongwu and Tyrese Haliburton.

Okongwu has been the top-rated big man on our board for awhile, and he moves up one spot to No. 4 in my top five here. I'm just a huge believer in the tools and what it will look like in a few years. He'll be able to step out onto the perimeter and switch on defense early, and he's already one of the most natural shot-blockers in this draft class. There is always a spot for a big with those specific skills in the NBA.

Offensively, while he rarely took 3-pointers at USC (a whopping four), his long-term outlook makes me believe there's no reason to think he can't extend his range. And that may be where value differs from team to team. Do you take a big man in the top five who is a great defender but can't space the floor consistently yet? Probably not unless you know he's got real potential. Shooting 72% from the free throw line and 61.6% from the floor last season is enough to buy enough believers to convince someone he's worthy of top five inclusion.

Haliburton makes the most substantial leap to get to No. 5 on the board, up from his previous ranking of No. 11. He's a high-efficiency guard who in college knocked down 3-pointers at a 42.6% clip, averaged 2.5 steals per game last season, and has the smarts to rival just about every guard in this class. The level of comfort and confidence with which he plays with really elevates him from mid-lottery to early-lottery for me. The skinny frame and wonky release are certainly concerns, but there's no denying his production, which pops even among the best guards in this class. If I'm a franchise in need of a lead guard in the top 10 he's getting serious consideration as early as No. 3.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#797 » by payitforward » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:19 pm

Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:Vassell to Danny Green in interesting. Obviously, you'd have to look at Green's numbers as a Freshman & Sophomore to see whether their performances were really similar.

One problem is that Danny Green didn't establish himself in the league for a number of years. His 3d year in the league, alreadyd 24 years of age, he got minutes & played extremely well.

Something to think about?

In any case, we wouldn't be picking Vassell @#9, so it's a matter of whether/how we trade down.

Not really, nobody follows the exact path that somebody else follows. Can't just look at stats; gotta also look at skills and athleticism when projecting a player.

Yes, of course -- I didn't mean to be making any kind of blanket assessment of Vassell, only to be thinking about the Green comparo itself. Vassell has shown really well, & off of what we know/see so far there's no reason he wouldn't be a good NBA player.

Again, though, given we wouldn't be likely to look his way at #9, being interested him is a way of thinking about what might be possible via a trade down for extra picks.

As to Danny Green, surely a part of the reason it took 2 wasted years for Danny Green to get a chance to play was that he was taken in R2. The less a team has invested in a player the less they are going to feature him early. I don't just mean dollars & guarantee investments: the GM has also invested his belief in a guy he picks high, not so much in a guy he picks down in the 40s of R2.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#798 » by payitforward » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:49 pm

It's always interesting to see how different the big boards can be: e.g. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/prospect-rankings/ has Xavier Tillman at #17, while nbadraftroom has him going in the mid-40's. Almost a 30-spot difference! Maxey & Green at 12 & 14, vs. 24 & 28.

Lots of other variation as well. I'm not suggesting this means anything; it's just interesting, odd.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#799 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:52 pm

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#800 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:55 pm

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