2003 Tim Duncan vs 1994 Hakeem Olajuwon

[Jamesfor3]

Which of these players were better and why?

[limbo]

I'd go with Duncan, mainly due to offensive advantage as a playmaker he had over Hakeem. Also was a bit more efficienct as a scorer and slightly better at drawing fouls.

Not that big of a gap between them, though.

[70sFan]

Basically even, when you pick one over the other it's a matter of preference - not actual difference in their abilities.

Duncan is my favorite player ever, so I'd pick him here but I don't think there is anything that makes one clearly better than the other.

[Lost92Bricks]

Hakeem is more dominant on both ends.

[Odinn21]

1964 Russell
1967 Chamberlain
1977 Abdul-Jabbar
1994 Olajuwon
2000 O'Neal
2003 Duncan

These are the top peak seasons by bigs IMO. 2004 Garnett being tier 1.5, and these names are followed by 1983 Moses, 1977 Walton, 1995 Robinson and 1993 Ewing tier 2. Well maybe I can put Moses and Walton next to Garnett and make it tier 2 while making Robinson and Ewing tier 3. Not so sure though.

I'd go;
1. 1967 Wilt
2. 1977 Kareem
3a. 2000 Shaq (Shaq and Timmy are pretty interchangeable depending on my mood, Shaq had the better regular season performance and Timmy had the better title run.)
3b. 2003 Timmy
5. 1994 Hakeem
6. 1964 Russell (TBH, I didn't watch 1964 Russell enough to particularly have him over the others.)


I'll make a case for Timmy;
He didn't particularly care in the 1st round. He just kept his defensive level and got everybody involved. This is his performance after the 1st round;

28.0 ppg 11.8 rpg 4.8 apg 1.3 bpg on .575 ts, +3.8 rts (31.8 eff, 22.8 gmsc, 21.8 pie) against the Lakers (2.71 SRS, 9th / 48 xW, 10th)
28.0 ppg 16.7 rpg 5.8 apg 3.0 bpg on .603 ts, +6.5 rts (39.3 eff, 27.2 gmsc, 21.8 pie) against the Mavs (7.90 SRS, 1st / 62 xW, 1st)
24.2 ppg 17.0 rpg 5.3 apg 5.3 bpg on .546 ts, +7.0 rts (37.0 eff, 24.1 gmsc, 26.7 pie) against the Nets (4.42 SRS, 4th / 56 xW, 4th)
26.7 ppg 15.2 rpg 5.3 apg 3.2 bpg on .575 ts, +5.8 rts (36.1 eff, 24.7 gmsc, 23.2 pie) on overall

His per 100 numbers in those series;
36.9 pts 15.9 reb 6.4 ast 1.7 blk against the Lakers
33.7 pts 20.3 reb 7.1 ast 3.7 blk against the Mavs
30.0 pts 21.1 reb 6.4 ast 6.6 blk against the Nets
33.5 pts 19.1 reb 6.6 ast 4.0 blk in those 18 games

And looking further than box numbers;
(Generally I'm not one to look for +/- data in playoffs series because most title winning teams aren't one-man army, lineups are too situational. But Duncan was one-army as it can get, the Spurs won when he was on the court and lost when he was off, because they had not much to offer other than Timmy, and 18 games is somewhat more reliable than looking a single series data.)
* When Duncan was on the court; the Spurs outscored their opponents by 1554-1414. (+7.8 per game)
When Duncan was off the court; the Spurs got outscored by their opponents with 178-218. (-2.2 per game)
* The Spurs had +5.8 net rating, it was +9.5 with Duncan and -22.7 without him.
* There are 2 significant games in this regard;
- Game 4 against the Lakers. The Spurs lost the game by 4 points despite Duncan was +15 when he was on the court.
Last 3:27 of the 2nd quarter, the Spurs leading by 16. Duncan sits down and the gap gets cut down to 7.
Last 2:54 of the 3rd quarter, the Spurs leading by 7. Duncan gets benched and the Lakers goes on a 14-3 series and the Lakers is up by 4 going into the 4th.
- Game 3 against the Mavericks. Even though it was a blowout game (Duncan had +31), the Spurs actually failed to score in 7 and a half minutes when he was off the court with 0-18 scoreboard. It shows how good was his cast on offense.
- The only time Duncan got bailed out was when Kerr came up big in game 6 of the WCF. It was like a reminder that no one can win all by himself.
* Some monster performances like 37/16/4/2 series clinching game against the Lakers. 40/15/7/1 - 32/15/5/3 - 34/24/6/6/2, these 3 are the first 3 games against the Mavs (when Dirk was healthy). 32/20/6/7/3 against the Nets in opening game of the Finals. And his famous near quadruple-double, title-winning game 21/20/10/8. Set the record for block in the Finals (after it started to get counted) with 32 blocks.
* Also Duncan scored 481 points and assisted 215 while he was on the court. 696 of 1554 points. Which makes it 44.8% for Duncan, getting directly involved.
* Duncan is one of the only 2 players along with Kareem to have 30+ points / 15+ rebounds performances in 4 consecutive games in the playoffs since the merger. Greater scorers like Shaq, Hakeem, Dirk couldn't do it. But he did. (I'm pointing out this as not something decisive, just something niche yet still impressive.)
* One last thing about his defense;
https://on.nba.com/2BQ2YjM
This is 'opponent shooting' percentages. According to the link, 40.2% of shots went in against Duncan in 2003 playoffs. Put it to some perspective; it was 38.5% for defense specialist Ben Wallace who didn't worry about carrying his team on offense in 2004 playoffs.

As for comparison with 1994 Hakeem, I think their playoff runs are pretty neck on neck. Hakeem had a decent offensive cast around him and elevated his team's defense. The vice versa for Timmy with a decent defensive cast. But Duncan's regular season performance puts him over Olajuwon for me.
In terms of aspects, scoring feels like a wash while knowing how Duncan scored in those 18 games. Duncan rebounded better and his passing was better. Defensively Hakeem was better with a very very small edge. Though I think Duncan's performance in 2003 NBA Finals was better than Hakeem's top defensive performance in one of 1994 series. But I'd still give the edge to Hakeem I guess.
Overall, it's really too hard to tell.

I just got a chance to rant about my favourite player of all time at his best. I didn't want to waste it. Hope you bared with me to see this post through. Cheers.

[Jiminy Glick]

Basically even, when you pick one over the other it's a matter of preference - not actual difference in their abilities.

Duncan is my favorite player ever, so I'd pick him here but I don't think there is anything that makes one clearly better than the other.

Duncan is the better passer though so I would go with him.

[Galloisdaman]

What surprised me about Hakeem is even the older past his prime Hakeem that played in Toronto had a 20 rebound game.