Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

[michaelm]

either Trump has a great sense of humor (inappropiate now) or he is completely out of his mind and should be send to area 51. Can't you activate some impeachment process for "health terrorism"? Simply horrified for you and the world
Imagine Eisenhower uttering such bull lol

he gave power to the states, had no choice bc media would've had a field day if he assumed a more authoritarian role.
six of the seven states with the highest cases had democrat governor.

Correlation is not causation.

[Fairview4Life]

either Trump has a great sense of humor (inappropiate now) or he is completely out of his mind and should be send to area 51. Can't you activate some impeachment process for "health terrorism"? Simply horrified for you and the world
Imagine Eisenhower uttering such bull lol

he gave power to the states, had no choice bc media would've had a field day if he assumed a more authoritarian role.
six of the seven states with the highest cases had democrat governor.

So the new argument is that Trump has to do what he thinks the media wants him to do? It’s not his bad decisions, really, it’s the biased left wing media that has forced him to make bad decisions? I mean...that wasn’t exactly the story being sold for the last 4 years, but ok.

[Fairview4Life]

either Trump has a great sense of humor (inappropiate now) or he is completely out of his mind and should be send to area 51. Can't you activate some impeachment process for "health terrorism"? Simply horrified for you and the world
Imagine Eisenhower uttering such bull lol

he gave power to the states, had no choice bc media would've had a field day if he assumed a more authoritarian role.
six of the seven states with the highest cases had democrat governor.

Correlation is not causation.

All it shows is that states that people live in and are testing a lot currently have more democratic governors.

[HotRocks34]

In the task force briefing yesterday, a scientist from the Department of Homeland Security presented initial findings of how higher temperature, higher humidity and sunlight affect the virus. As expected, all of those things seem to be very bad for the virus. His presentation (with charts) starts at 19:45 into the video. Sunlight seems to just wipe it out rapidly:

Watch on YouTube

[Pointgod]

Mods please leave this in here, this is not political. Not only were posters in this thread pushing hydroxychloroquine, but Dr. Bright is the top guy in charge of developing a vaccine. I don’t know why you’d remove your top expert when you’re trying to develop a vaccine. This makes no sense.

Read on Twitter

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Read on Twitter

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[Pointgod]

In the task force briefing yesterday, a scientist from the Department of Homeland Security presented initial findings of how higher temperature, higher humidity and sunlight affect the virus. As expected, all of those things seem to be very bad for the virus. His presentation (with charts) starts at 19:45 into the video. Sunlight seems to just wipe it out rapidly:

Watch on YouTube

You should be clear. This was a limited study on how sunlight and disinfectant affects the virus on surfaces and in the air. It has nothing to do with people. Key point is bolded.

Bryan presented data that found how long the virus can live on solid surfaces or in the air was cut significantly under high temperatures, higher humidity and when exposed to sunlight. He said his office was also studying how certain disinfectants might kill the virus more effectively than others, referencing isopropyl alcohol and bleach.

Bryan presented the results of a study that showed the virus deteriorates more quickly when subjected to higher temperatures and humidity — a finding that quickly drew skepticism from other experts on social media and cable television given outbreaks in a number of places with warm climates, such as Singapore and Brazil.

Bryan later cautioned that the agency's findings did not mean that sunlight will kill the virus, nor should going outdoors supersede social distancing guidelines put in place by state and federal leaders.

"It would be irresponsible for us to say that we feel the summer is just going to totally kill the virus … that is not the case," he said.

https://thehill.com/homenews/coronavirus-report/494428-trump-suggests-using-light-heat-as-coronavirus-treatment

[HotRocks34]

Mods please leave this in here, this is not political. Not only were posters in this thread pushing hydroxychloroquine, but Dr. Bright is the top guy in charge of developing a vaccine. I don’t know why you’d remove your top expert when you’re trying to develop a vaccine. This makes no sense.

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Read on Twitter

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At first glance, it doesn't look like that will hold up.

Read on Twitter

And the guy was supposedly already on the way out with issues from over a year ago.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/22/hhs-ousts-vaccine-expert-as-covid-19-threat-grows-201642

Rick Bright, the director of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, was transferred to a new, more narrow role at the National Institutes of Health this week, an HHS spokesperson confirmed. The move was more than a year in the making — Bright had clashed with department leaders about his decisions and the scope of his authority — but came abruptly, said five current and former HHS officials.

Of course, a year ago was long before any discussions of hydroxychlorquine. And it seems Bright himself was pushing for the usage of hydroxychloroquine in the treatment of Covid.

And finally this:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/it-sure-looks-like-the-new-york-times-got-played-by-the-former-hhs-expert-who-says-his-firing-was-retaliation

Elsewhere, Politico reporter Dan Diamond shared a screengrab of a text conversation between himself and an unidentified source who said on Jan. 2, “[Bright] is going to be removed from his job for incompetence and insubordination.” Note that Jan. 2 is before the coronavirus pandemic.

...

My best guess is that this story is exactly what it sounds like. Bright’s firing is probably the result of an internal power struggle dating back long before the coronavirus pandemic. He lost his job, and so, he and his attorneys went to a newspaper that will believe any anti-Trump story whatsoever, no matter how thinly sourced, and portrayed himself as a martyr of Trump's obsession with hydroxychloroquine.

Based on the above, this looks like a part of the Covid story going nowhere.

[HotRocks34]

...

I was clear, particularly since the video is provided so that people can hear from the expert himself.

Anyone can simply watch the video and see what the guy says. Which is why I included the video, so that no one has to rely on my explanation of the results of the study.

[Pointgod]

Mods please leave this in here, this is not political. Not only were posters in this thread pushing hydroxychloroquine, but Dr. Bright is the top guy in charge of developing a vaccine. I don’t know why you’d remove your top expert when you’re trying to develop a vaccine. This makes no sense.

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Doesn't look like that will hold up.

Read on Twitter

And the guy was supposedly already on the way out with issues from over a year ago.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/22/hhs-ousts-vaccine-expert-as-covid-19-threat-grows-201642

Rick Bright, the director of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, was transferred to a new, more narrow role at the National Institutes of Health this week, an HHS spokesperson confirmed. The move was more than a year in the making — Bright had clashed with department leaders about his decisions and the scope of his authority — but came abruptly, said five current and former HHS officials.

Of course, a year ago was long before any discussions of hydroxychlorquine. And it seems Bright himself was pushing for the usage of hydroxychloroquine in the treatment of Covid.

And finally this:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/it-sure-looks-like-the-new-york-times-got-played-by-the-former-hhs-expert-who-says-his-firing-was-retaliation

Elsewhere, Politico reporter Dan Diamond shared a screengrab of a text conversation between himself and an unidentified source who said on Jan. 2, “[Bright] is going to be removed from his job for incompetence and insubordination.” Note that Jan. 2 is before the coronavirus pandemic.

...

My best guess is that this story is exactly what it sounds like. Bright’s firing is probably the result of an internal power struggle dating back long before the coronavirus pandemic. He lost his job, and so, he and his attorneys went to a newspaper that will believe any anti-Trump story whatsoever, no matter how thinly sourced, and portrayed himself as a martyr of Trump's obsession with hydroxychloroquine.

Based on the above, this looks like a part of the Covid story going nowhere.

So if you read carefully, he claimed that he was pushed back against using hydroxychloroquine with limited physician oversight, not the using it in general. Every medical expert agrees that it should only by administered by a physician. What it seems the Trump administration was pushing for was a much wider spread use so your first tweet doesn’t actually disprove that claim.

Whether he was already on his way out, it doesn’t make sense to get rid of your top vaccine person when you’re trying to find a vaccine. Keeping him on would show that this wasn’t a political decision. There’s no reason to push him out with the current situation if he’s the most competent person to find the vaccine. It’s benching your best player when a championship is on the line.

[HotRocks34]

So if you read carefully, he claimed that he was pushed back against using hydroxychloroquine with limited physician oversight, not the using it in general. Every medical expert agrees that it should only by administered by a physician. What it seems the Trump administration was pushing for was a much wider spread use so your first tweet doesn’t actually disprove that claim.

Whether he was already on his way out, it doesn’t make sense to get rid of your top vaccine person when you’re trying to find a vaccine. Keeping him on would show that this wasn’t a political decision. There’s no reason to push him out with the current situation if he’s the most competent person to find the vaccine. It’s benching your best player when a championship is on the line.

Looks like a dead issue, IMO. As long as there is a paper/reporting trail showing people wanted him out before the Covid stuff, can't see anything here but PR smokescreen.

And wanting some version of hydroxy, whatever way he wanted it, will likely knock down any "he was against hydroxy" martyrdom or whatever, I would think.

Case looks beyond weak for him, in my view. But I guess it depends on who hears his case. I agree with the assessment in the article I linked that this seems like someone trying to gravy train off an issue (hydroxy) to help him dispute his reassignment.

As Fauci said in the briefing yesterday (or maybe 2 days ago), the seeming new role for Bright at NIH is an important one. So it's not like he was made a janitor.

Story doesn't matter a lot to me. It's a blip on the radar, IMO.

[Fairview4Life]

Going outside should still be relatively safe if you're able to maintain distance from people, try not to touch things and wear a mask probably. That's just hard to do at times especially if everyone else is doing it too.

[HotRocks34]

Here's Fauci talking about Bright (guy reassigned from his old job into a new job at NIH). Video starts at 1:29:45 or so:

Watch on YouTube

Summary: New job Bright has apparently been assigned to is a very important job, in Fauci's mind.

[13th Man]

Here’s the thing we’re both outside observers but this isn’t a both sides issue. Trump has been uniquely unqualified to lead in a moment of crisis and he’s screwed this situation up in almost every way imaginable. I don’t watch CNN, but they do provide credible experts on the channel if you don’t want to tune into their opinion segments. I watch MSNBC and they’re really good providing expert analysis but also talking the issue from many different points of view which includes people on the frontlines, policy makers, people from past administrations who were in charge of pandemic responses and unique views on how it disproportionately affects people of colour. Meanwhile Fox News is pushing unfounded claims that it was created in a lab and has idiots like Dr. Phil on there incorrectly claiming more people die in swimming pools than from coronavirus. You can’t talk about the response without criticizing the lack of leadership, it’s plain facts not agenda driven media hype. I think you mentioned you’re from Australia. Well I think your PM is absolute dog ****, but at least you can probably point out specific steps he took to limit the spread and how he actually showed leadership through tone and actions. You don’t have to spin anything because the facts and results can support the argument. Not so much with Trump. The bar is so low with him that if he had shut his mouth and let the experts make decisions he’d be getting all the credit from supposedly bias outlets like CNN. This isn’t inherently political but neither Trump or his supporters can admit that he’s making an extremely tough situation even worse. If you want to get a better idea of what’s happening on the ground in America you should watch the Governor’s addresses.

I am stunned by your stance on MSNBC. Everyone in America knows that MSNBC is to the left what FoxNews is to the right. One of their popular hosts literally said it was his goal to turn Donald Trump’s political bones into dust. How is that fair reporting?

That’s not remotely true at all. You may believe it but reality does not support this stance. I get people might not like the political opinion but MSNBC actually has people who know what the **** they are talking about on. They have actual experts on and people who have worked in previous administrations. They’re also balanced and give credit to both Republican and Democratic Governors that are showing true leadership.

On the other hand Fox News is pure state propaganda. There’s no left equivalent. According to Fox News coronavirus was a Democratic hoax to hurt Trump. it go so bad that they fired an News anchor who said as much. Their whole programming is built around defending Trump and Republicans no matter how stupid. They have complete morons like Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz on spreading misinformation. They know that Trump’s re-election is tied to the economy so they started the “sacrifice lives for the economy” talking point. The problem with being in the tank for Trump is that the Coronavirus is simultaneously a Democratic hoax, yet at the same time his response has been perfect 10/10.

I guarantee if one person spent a week watching only MSNBC as their news source and another person watched Fox News, the person watching MSNBC would come away much more informed and prepared to handle the epidemic.

LMAO, your bias is glaring. Nobody is more biased than Rachel Maddow or Chuck Todd, maybe Don Lemon perhaps. Hannity is Fox's most outspoken opinionist (notice that I didn't say journalist as the others present themselves to be), but he speaks more truth than the others mentioned.

Fox is one network that's going against the likes of MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, the entire Canadian media conglomerate and more; basically the mainstream media.

[HotRocks34]

Going outside should still be relatively safe if you're able to maintain distance from people, try not to touch things and wear a mask probably. That's just hard to do at times especially if everyone else is doing it too.

The DHS scientist said that if he's going to do anything with his family (maybe like a family gathering) he's going to do it outside. I guess the thinking there is because of the effect UV rays (and maybe humidity) seem to have on the virus.

He says it at around 33:28 into this video:

Watch on YouTube

[13th Man]

Going outside should still be relatively safe if you're able to maintain distance from people, try not to touch things and wear a mask probably. That's just hard to do at times especially if everyone else is doing it too.

I agree. It's ironic that number one place of infections come from inside of your home, yet they want everybody cooped up inside their homes where the air circulation is poor and contained.

They should be endorsing for people to go outside more, while social distancing. Being outdoors in the sunlight is also very important for your skin, your physical health and mental health. Look up sunlight's effects on seratonin; it increases your mood to fight depression amongst other tremendous benefits. Being outside is not the problem imo, it's being indoors too much, leading to inactivity, isolation and depression.

[DowJones]

Here’s the thing we’re both outside observers but this isn’t a both sides issue. Trump has been uniquely unqualified to lead in a moment of crisis and he’s screwed this situation up in almost every way imaginable. I don’t watch CNN, but they do provide credible experts on the channel if you don’t want to tune into their opinion segments. I watch MSNBC and they’re really good providing expert analysis but also talking the issue from many different points of view which includes people on the frontlines, policy makers, people from past administrations who were in charge of pandemic responses and unique views on how it disproportionately affects people of colour. Meanwhile Fox News is pushing unfounded claims that it was created in a lab and has idiots like Dr. Phil on there incorrectly claiming more people die in swimming pools than from coronavirus. You can’t talk about the response without criticizing the lack of leadership, it’s plain facts not agenda driven media hype. I think you mentioned you’re from Australia. Well I think your PM is absolute dog ****, but at least you can probably point out specific steps he took to limit the spread and how he actually showed leadership through tone and actions. You don’t have to spin anything because the facts and results can support the argument. Not so much with Trump. The bar is so low with him that if he had shut his mouth and let the experts make decisions he’d be getting all the credit from supposedly bias outlets like CNN. This isn’t inherently political but neither Trump or his supporters can admit that he’s making an extremely tough situation even worse. If you want to get a better idea of what’s happening on the ground in America you should watch the Governor’s addresses.

I am stunned by your stance on MSNBC. Everyone in America knows that MSNBC is to the left what FoxNews is to the right. One of their popular hosts literally said it was his goal to turn Donald Trump’s political bones into dust. How is that fair reporting?

That’s not remotely true at all. You may believe it but reality does not support this stance. I get people might not like the political opinion but MSNBC actually has people who know what the **** they are talking about on. They have actual experts on and people who have worked in previous administrations. They’re also balanced and give credit to both Republican and Democratic Governors that are showing true leadership.

On the other hand Fox News is pure state propaganda. There’s no left equivalent. According to Fox News coronavirus was a Democratic hoax to hurt Trump. it go so bad that they fired an News anchor who said as much. Their whole programming is built around defending Trump and Republicans no matter how stupid. They have complete morons like Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz on spreading misinformation. They know that Trump’s re-election is tied to the economy so they started the “sacrifice lives for the economy” talking point. The problem with being in the tank for Trump is that the Coronavirus is simultaneously a Democratic hoax, yet at the same time his response has been perfect 10/10.

I guarantee if one person spent a week watching only MSNBC as their news source and another person watched Fox News, the person watching MSNBC would come away much more informed and prepared to handle the epidemic.

I have watched MSNBC. I have watched a bunch of cable news over the last 6 weeks since I have been work from home--far too much. MSNBC is a hyper-partisan network. You may like their experts because they align with your view of the world but they are an extremely biased network. One of their popular morning hosts literally said that his goal was to turn Donald Trump's "political bones to dust".

I will also say that MSNBC gaslit you on the coronavirus is a hoax thing. Go listen to what Trump said about it--he was clearly saying that the democrats blaming Trump for the coronavirus was the hoax, not the virus itself. Trump can get plenty of blame for things he has said regarding the virus, but the man never called it a hoax. Don't let that network gaslight you.

[Fairview4Life]

Going outside should still be relatively safe if you're able to maintain distance from people, try not to touch things and wear a mask probably. That's just hard to do at times especially if everyone else is doing it too.

I agree. It's ironic that number one place of infections come from inside of your home, yet they want everybody cooped up inside their homes where the air circulation is poor and contained.

They should be endorsing for people to go outside more, while social distancing. Being outdoors in the sunlight is also very important for your skin, your physical health and mental health. Look up sunlight's effects on seratonin; it increases your mood to fight depression amongst other tremendous benefits. Being outside is not the problem imo, it's being indoors too much, leading to inactivity, isolation and depression.

Being indoors isn't a problem. The problem is being near infected people. Telling people to stay inside is the best way to keep them away from people who might be infected.

[HotRocks34]

Here in PA, it looks like things will start to re-open on May 8:

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/04/see-the-color-coded-chart-outlining-steps-to-reopen-pa.html

Where I am at, near the center of the state, there have been few cases. The governor is looking for places to have fewer than 50 new cases per 100,000 residents over 14 days for that region to move into the next phase. We should make that easily.

Things won't happen all at once, but I'm looking forward to getting back to a world with plenty of toilet paper, hand sanitizer and cleaning products on the shelves. Judging by how people are reacting around here lately, the panic seems almost fully gone and people want out of their homes.

[TunaFish]

"It was 1918 and Denver Mayor William Fitz Randolph Mills bowed to business leaders and decided to back off social distancing. Armistice Day seemed like a perfect day to do it. The city had been all but locked down for five weeks and now there was something worth celebrating -- the end of the First World War. Grateful citizens streamed into the streets of the city on November 11, 1918, soon after Denver's Manager of Health William H. Sharpley declared the "plague under control.

Even in those early days of public health, with limited scientific remedies, social distancing and masks were understood to help stem the tide of pandemic.

While some experts tried to calm fears by saying the Spanish influenza epidemic was ordinary influenza by another name.

But folks were bristling at being asked to stay indoors in the picturesque autumn and businesses -- especially movie theaters -- were irritated at losing so much money because of what seemed like a relatively isolated pandemic. They argued it was better to simply quarantine those who showed symptoms and let everyone else go about their business.

Instead of being at the end of the influenza's toll on Denver, the city was only halfway through its ordeal. By backing off social distancing too early, they utterly failed to flatten the curve, and suffered a second bump, ... .

By November 22, deaths were spiking and Denver officials scrambled to reinstate bans on public and private gatherings and requiring masks for all commerce.

But the damage had been done. Five days later, Denver Post headlines blared the bad news: "All Flu Records Smashed in Denver in Last 24 Hours," claiming that more Denver residents had died of influenza than Coloradans killed in the First World War."

"The Great Influenza," by John Barry. https://www.amazon.com/Great-Influenza-Deadliest-Pandemic-History-ebook/dp/B000OCXFWE

[Pointgod]

I am stunned by your stance on MSNBC. Everyone in America knows that MSNBC is to the left what FoxNews is to the right. One of their popular hosts literally said it was his goal to turn Donald Trump’s political bones into dust. How is that fair reporting?

That’s not remotely true at all. You may believe it but reality does not support this stance. I get people might not like the political opinion but MSNBC actually has people who know what the **** they are talking about on. They have actual experts on and people who have worked in previous administrations. They’re also balanced and give credit to both Republican and Democratic Governors that are showing true leadership.

On the other hand Fox News is pure state propaganda. There’s no left equivalent. According to Fox News coronavirus was a Democratic hoax to hurt Trump. it go so bad that they fired an News anchor who said as much. Their whole programming is built around defending Trump and Republicans no matter how stupid. They have complete morons like Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz on spreading misinformation. They know that Trump’s re-election is tied to the economy so they started the “sacrifice lives for the economy” talking point. The problem with being in the tank for Trump is that the Coronavirus is simultaneously a Democratic hoax, yet at the same time his response has been perfect 10/10.

I guarantee if one person spent a week watching only MSNBC as their news source and another person watched Fox News, the person watching MSNBC would come away much more informed and prepared to handle the epidemic.

LMAO, your bias is glaring. Nobody is more biased than Rachel Maddow or Chuck Todd, maybe Don Lemon perhaps. Hannity is Fox's most outspoken opinionist (notice that I didn't say journalist as the others present themselves to be), but he speaks more truth than the others mentioned.

Fox is one network that's going against the likes of MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, the entire Canadian media conglomerate and more; basically the mainstream media.

Yea Fox News that claimed the virus was a Democratic hoax is not biased at all.

They misjudged their coverage so badly that they are currently being sued for the amount of information they put out and fired an anchor for their **** crazy talking points. Hannity speaks truth?! Please lay off the drugs.

Correlation does not equal causation, but the facts are not on yours or Fox’s side.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/27/21195940/coronavirus-fox-news-poll-republicans-trump

How much does Fox’s drumbeat of coronavirus misinformation matter for its largely Republican, largely older audience? A new national poll from Survey 160 and Gradient Metrics sheds some disturbing light on this question — showing that Fox viewers are much less likely to take the pandemic seriously even as compared to other Republicans.

If you want to be informed about the coronavirus you’re better off getting your news from the onion than Fox News.