OT- The Last Dance documentary

[HomoSapien]

I'm watching the 63 point game against the Celtics right now. I've actually never watched the game before, just seen highlights on YouTube. My first reaction to the game is that it really doesn't look like a less athletic game. Just like now, you have some guys that are supremely athletic and some that aren't. The Celtics aren't high-flyers, but these guys can run.

[AKfanatic]

I'm watching the 63 point game against the Celtics right now. I've actually never watched the game before, just seen highlights on YouTube. My first reaction to the game is that it really doesn't look like a less athletic game. Just like now, you have some guys that are supremely athletic and some that aren't. The Celtics aren't high-flyers, but these guys can run.

I rewatched that one last week and came away thinking the same thing I’ve said numerous times.....

Lauri needs to study McHale’s footwork in the post, even better, work with him. Kevin had some incredible up and unders and fade type moves that Lauri should be able to learn and take advantage of.

[dice]

I'm watching the 63 point game against the Celtics right now. I've actually never watched the game before, just seen highlights on YouTube. My first reaction to the game is that it really doesn't look like a less athletic game. Just like now, you have some guys that are supremely athletic and some that aren't. The Celtics aren't high-flyers, but these guys can run.

certainly more big white stiffs back then. particularly on the bench

[kulaz3000]

"Everyone knows the story of him being cut. We had to cover that, but that's kind of common knowledge. But his rise between sophomore year and senior year, his high school coach finagling him into five-star basketball camps by lying about his stats. He was embellishing his stats just to get him in there because he was not on the map at all. No one was coming down to look at high school kids in Wilmington, North Carolina. He was there for a week and that's what his parents could afford, and he did so well that first week that he got MVP of the entire camp.

You had Patrick Ewing, Len Bias and some other guys were at the camp as well, but Michael, or Mike, at that point, blew everybody away. They begged him to stay for a second week because more college coaches wanted to see him play, and the parents said 'we can't afford it.' So they said 'OK, we'll pay for him if he works in the kitchen as a waiter for all the other kids.' Michael got MVP that second week and he was a waiter serving kids fruit punch and grilled cheeses and then going out and wasting these kids later on on the court ... Little anecdotes like that, I would have loved to get it in, but we had a lot of story to tell and it's all grounded in that '97-98 season, so at a certain point you have to kill some darlings, as Hemmingway would say."

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/the-last-dance-director-reveals-his-favorite-michael-jordan-story-that-didnt-make-the-10-hour-documentary/

[Flopper]

jay williams was on first take yesterday saying that lavine is a better athlete than MJ

If Jay Will thinks he is a better athletic just because LaVine jumps higher, sure. But being an a great athlete is more than just being a high jumper.

Jordan was not only had good bounce, but he was fast, he was strong, and something that was undenial was how quick he was, his twitch muscle reactions were out of this world, something you can't teach.

I've never been fortunate enough to see MJ live, but I've seen numerous people saying that MJ and the way he moved stood out like a sore thumb, how graceful and fast he was, almost like a cat.

That's not to discount LaVine as an athlete because he is a top tier athlete himself, but Jordan was something uniquely differently.

does Lavine have a 45 in vert? Maybe he does, but we didn’t call MJ Air Jordan for nothing. Lavine can’t hang like that.

I saw them both. Perhaps different eras, there were lots of behemoths on teams in the 90s, but the thing about MJ sticking out like he was moving at a different speed than everyone else was true. Way different speed. And I haven’t seen that relativity since. Derrick Rose could look like that sometimes though.

Lavine doesn't have the same balance and strength when finisingh through contact that Jordan or even Rose had. He also plays a bit more upright compared to the other two who tended keep a low dribble when attacking.

Zach is just different kind of athlete, probably more like a young Kobe with fluid, almost elastic-like, explosiveness.

[MrSparkle]

I'm watching the 63 point game against the Celtics right now. I've actually never watched the game before, just seen highlights on YouTube. My first reaction to the game is that it really doesn't look like a less athletic game. Just like now, you have some guys that are supremely athletic and some that aren't. The Celtics aren't high-flyers, but these guys can run.

certainly more big white stiffs back then. particularly on the bench

Like Kornet?

Carter, Felicio and Gafford have more physical gifts, but I have a feeling they'd get wrecked by your average 80s center, just from a toughness and fundamentals POV.

[dice]

I'm watching the 63 point game against the Celtics right now. I've actually never watched the game before, just seen highlights on YouTube. My first reaction to the game is that it really doesn't look like a less athletic game. Just like now, you have some guys that are supremely athletic and some that aren't. The Celtics aren't high-flyers, but these guys can run.

certainly more big white stiffs back then. particularly on the bench

Like Kornet?

well, here are the career highlights of a guy that was in the league until age 34 but only played 826 minutes in his career. world's largest victory cigar:

Watch on YouTube

here's the most notable career moment of an incompetent benchwarmer on 2 celtics title teams who somehow lasted to age 33:

Watch on YouTube

another guy who didn't belong in the league but was employed at age 34:

Watch on YouTube

and now...the moment we've all been waiting for...the grand prize winner! bill simmons created "the mokeski award" for best american white player based on this guy, who certainly never deserved such an award but averaged an amazing 6.7 fouls per 36. best known for getting decked by charles barkley. also had his nose broken by oakley's fist. lasted until...age 34:

Watch on YouTube

and some bulls-related: joe wolf - active until age 34, jack haley (34, RIP), greg foster (35), wennington (36), joe kleine (38!)

also RIP dwayne schintzius:



apologies in advance for any nightmares sustained

[AKfanatic]

both could/can dunk from foul line, for what that's worth. and they're the same height. not sure anyone's ever done it as eloquently as jordan's signature dunk contest effort, though

Nah, Jordan’s just looked like art.

Stills of his dunks are phenomenal

and the signature shot:

Had the poster of this one... not the iconic MJ dunk, but was my personal favorite of his dunk contest dunks....

[dice]

Nah, Jordan’s just looked like art.

Stills of his dunks are phenomenal

and the signature shot:

Had the poster of this one... not the iconic MJ dunk, but was my personal favorite of his dunk contest dunks....

that's the one i remembered well but couldn't find

[AKfanatic]

and the signature shot:

Had the poster of this one... not the iconic MJ dunk, but was my personal favorite of his dunk contest dunks....

that's the one i remembered well but couldn't find

Yeah I haven’t been able to find the stills of that dunk. I remember being in awe of that particular dunk... the still shots and poster of it were just incredible.

[AKfanatic]

If Jay Will thinks he is a better athletic just because LaVine jumps higher, sure. But being an a great athlete is more than just being a high jumper.

Jordan was not only had good bounce, but he was fast, he was strong, and something that was undenial was how quick he was, his twitch muscle reactions were out of this world, something you can't teach.

I've never been fortunate enough to see MJ live, but I've seen numerous people saying that MJ and the way he moved stood out like a sore thumb, how graceful and fast he was, almost like a cat.

That's not to discount LaVine as an athlete because he is a top tier athlete himself, but Jordan was something uniquely differently.

does Lavine have a 45 in vert? Maybe he does, but we didn’t call MJ Air Jordan for nothing. Lavine can’t hang like that.

I saw them both. Perhaps different eras, there were lots of behemoths on teams in the 90s, but the thing about MJ sticking out like he was moving at a different speed than everyone else was true. Way different speed. And I haven’t seen that relativity since. Derrick Rose could look like that sometimes though.

Lavine doesn't have the same balance and strength when finisingh through contact that Jordan or even Rose had. He also plays a bit more upright compared to the other two who tended keep a low dribble when attacking.

Zach is just different kind of athlete, probably more like a young Kobe with fluid, almost elastic-like, explosiveness.

Balance and strength when finishing through contact...

[dougthonus]

IIRC while Rodman was on the Lakers they had a much better record, small sample size albeit. Not sure what happened over there in LA, but with Detroit and Chicago, Rodman was pulling on the leash hard enough to loosen the stakes, but he never pulled up the stakes. Rodman was always who he always was. He had MJ PJ and Scottie with him in Chicago, and for some reason he respected those guys enough to stay as near to the reservation as he needed to be in order to help the team. I think he would have been alright staying here.

Maybe, it's definitely a possibility. Though, the cracks were showing in his armor the in 97/98 with the Bulls, and he was 37 years old. It may have been better in Chicago for sure, and his behavior may not have been at a level where he was kicked off the team, but there was definitely a degradation in skills either way.

[troza]

IIRC while Rodman was on the Lakers they had a much better record, small sample size albeit. Not sure what happened over there in LA, but with Detroit and Chicago, Rodman was pulling on the leash hard enough to loosen the stakes, but he never pulled up the stakes. Rodman was always who he always was. He had MJ PJ and Scottie with him in Chicago, and for some reason he respected those guys enough to stay as near to the reservation as he needed to be in order to help the team. I think he would have been alright staying here.

Maybe, it's definitely a possibility. Though, the cracks were showing in his armor the in 97/98 with the Bulls, and he was 37 years old. It may have been better in Chicago for sure, and his behavior may not have been at a level where he was kicked off the team, but there was definitely a degradation in skills either way.

He actually had a better playoff run in 98 than in 97 (in terms of numbers).

Although I wouldn't say he did brilliantly on the 98 finals, I enjoyed his series vs the Nets (watching now the series vs the Hornets... so far so good, but only watched game 1 and half of the game 2). Nothing too crazy like those 96 NBA finals but he was still an amazing defender and... he actually was a great fit for the team at that time (defense, passing... and some cluch shots on that game 6 vs the Jazz )

I don't think he was getting worse physically but there are some stories of him taking days off and all those antics... We will never know, but with Phil, Jordan and Pippen there he would be ok... like he would have done ok if he didn't play for the Lakers in the 99 season and only went there for the 99/00 season.


Funny thing... and not related with Rodman.... when we think of the dynasty, the only one that reached a similar level of success after the 98 season was Phil Jackson... and he and Jordan sucked when they changed to a role similar to Reisendorf or Krause...

Jordan could have been close but after some reading, he pushed himself too much to be back in 2001 that he just got some injuries at the start of the season... and almost made it until that injury. Pippen went to the Rockets and it backfired... he was good in Portland for one year but they kind of chocked in that 4th quarter (and some miscalls in favour of the Lakers also helped) and it was it for Pippen...

Why bring this up now? The more I watch or read about that team, the more I find it that besides all the talent, the team was better than the sum of its parts. So that's why I also believe that Rodman would be fine if the team was there for another year.

[Flopper]

Someone posted this dunk on the gen board, surprised I hadn't seen it before now.

Read on Twitter

[bledredwine]

I'm watching the 63 point game against the Celtics right now. I've actually never watched the game before, just seen highlights on YouTube. My first reaction to the game is that it really doesn't look like a less athletic game. Just like now, you have some guys that are supremely athletic and some that aren't. The Celtics aren't high-flyers, but these guys can run.

certainly more big white stiffs back then. particularly on the bench

Hell no.

Those celtics teams were loaded, athleticism included. They were strong, quick and agile for their size. I’m surprised every time I watch. Bird was way quicker than say a Dirk Porz or whatever crappy modern comparison that pales (pun intended).

If anything, there was more height and strength. Teams also didn’t have dumb (inexperienced) 18-20 year olds. It was all men.

[AKfanatic]

Someone posted this dunk on the gen board, surprised I hadn't seen it before now.

Read on Twitter

Jordan was a huge fan of the Vince dunk...

“The most amazing dunk I have ever seen is probably Vince Carter when he hung his elbow in the rim,” Jordan said, via the Star Tribune. “To me that was, without question, just unbelievable.”

I remember the MJ dunk, dice posted a still of that one.... incredible dunk. I didn’t remember his arm being like that, would’ve been incredible had he pulled a Vince on it. Though watching it, it would’ve been pretty risky given his angle and speed .... could’ve caused some unforeseen damage, though, damn it would’ve been impressive.

[keloms]

The Glove

[Michael Jackson]

IIRC while Rodman was on the Lakers they had a much better record, small sample size albeit. Not sure what happened over there in LA, but with Detroit and Chicago, Rodman was pulling on the leash hard enough to loosen the stakes, but he never pulled up the stakes. Rodman was always who he always was. He had MJ PJ and Scottie with him in Chicago, and for some reason he respected those guys enough to stay as near to the reservation as he needed to be in order to help the team. I think he would have been alright staying here.

Maybe, it's definitely a possibility. Though, the cracks were showing in his armor the in 97/98 with the Bulls, and he was 37 years old. It may have been better in Chicago for sure, and his behavior may not have been at a level where he was kicked off the team, but there was definitely a degradation in skills either way.

He actually had a better playoff run in 98 than in 97 (in terms of numbers).

Although I wouldn't say he did brilliantly on the 98 finals, I enjoyed his series vs the Nets (watching now the series vs the Hornets... so far so good, but only watched game 1 and half of the game 2). Nothing too crazy like those 96 NBA finals but he was still an amazing defender and... he actually was a great fit for the team at that time (defense, passing... and some cluch shots on that game 6 vs the Jazz )

I don't think he was getting worse physically but there are some stories of him taking days off and all those antics... We will never know, but with Phil, Jordan and Pippen there he would be ok... like he would have done ok if he didn't play for the Lakers in the 99 season and only went there for the 99/00 season.


Funny thing... and not related with Rodman.... when we think of the dynasty, the only one that reached a similar level of success after the 98 season was Phil Jackson... and he and Jordan sucked when they changed to a role similar to Reisendorf or Krause...

Jordan could have been close but after some reading, he pushed himself too much to be back in 2001 that he just got some injuries at the start of the season... and almost made it until that injury. Pippen went to the Rockets and it backfired... he was good in Portland for one year but they kind of chocked in that 4th quarter (and some miscalls in favour of the Lakers also helped) and it was it for Pippen...

Why bring this up now? The more I watch or read about that team, the more I find it that besides all the talent, the team was better than the sum of its parts. So that's why I also believe that Rodman would be fine if the team was there for another year.

PJ got the same success and Steve Kerr actually moved on to greater success granted he wasn’t a key part of the bulls or spurs success.

[wolffy]

What i wouldnt give to see one game with Rodman vs Draymond in both their primes.

[Angry Jimmy]

Is it just me or is this documentary completely ignoring Toni Kukoc and his impact on the team???