2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

[HerSports85]

Read on Twitter

[jvsimonetti0514]

Like I said before, Hayes is super left handed dominant and it is worrisome for me. He needs to use his right hand to make up for his mediocre athleticism.

Read on Twitter

He might be even more left hand dominate than RJ. That fit might be clunky if he's shooting from that one league isn't real. I worry about all the PG's when it comes to finishing in the NBA.

LaMelo- avoids contact prefers floaters 4.5 FTA per 36
Hayes/ Haliburton: Mediocre athletes 3.9 FTA per 36 Hally 2 FTA per 36
Cole: was one of the worst finishers in the NCAA 6 FTA per 36

I think I said before consider RJ’s main strength is driving in the paint and Mitch being a rim runner. I still think Haliburton is the best fit. He can play as a secondary ball handler and has NBA 3 pt range which is what is needed to open the paint for RJ. I also think if Saddiq falls out the lottery the Knicks should use cash and future picks to go after him as well for the same reason. Adding two guys with NBA range who don’t need the ball to be effective on the court is important. The fact they can both play competent defense also would help if the move is for Thibs to be the coach.

I still think we're at the point in our rebuild that we can swing for the fences and go with the best talent. I know we desperately need shooting but we still need that number one guy. I'm just not sure RJ is that guy. He's really good and is going to be a 20 ppg scorer but more like a 2 or 3. Haliburton just screams role player to me and don't know if that jumper of his will translate cuz it's low and slow.

[3toheadmelo]

He might be even more left hand dominate than RJ. That fit might be clunky if he's shooting from that one league isn't real. I worry about all the PG's when it comes to finishing in the NBA.

LaMelo- avoids contact prefers floaters 4.5 FTA per 36
Hayes/ Haliburton: Mediocre athletes 3.9 FTA per 36 Hally 2 FTA per 36
Cole: was one of the worst finishers in the NCAA 6 FTA per 36

I think I said before consider RJ’s main strength is driving in the paint and Mitch being a rim runner. I still think Haliburton is the best fit. He can play as a secondary ball handler and has NBA 3 pt range which is what is needed to open the paint for RJ. I also think if Saddiq falls out the lottery the Knicks should use cash and future picks to go after him as well for the same reason. Adding two guys with NBA range who don’t need the ball to be effective on the court is important. The fact they can both play competent defense also would help if the move is for Thibs to be the coach.

I still think we're at the point in our rebuild that we can swing for the fences and go with the best talent. I know we desperately need shooting but we still need that number one guy. I'm just not sure RJ is that guy. He's really good and is going to be a 20 ppg scorer but more like a 2 or 3. Haliburton just screams role player to me and don't know if that jumper of his will translate cuz it's low and slow.

I think his jumper will translate. His jumper is like Jaren Jackson Jr. I thought Jaren's shot was not going to translate despite the good percentages and it did. Im not making that same mistake again so I am buying into Haliburton's shot lol

[finestrg]

Check this out: https://wfan.radio.com/articles/news/nba-rumors-knicks-feel-they-can-trade-for-disgruntled-star

I dunno fellas.. I can't believe even one person in our front office thinks this. Can't believe there's even one guy still with the "quick fix" mentality.. How has this thinking served us in the past? Not good, right? It's just not how you build a team the right way imo. Not even sure who exactly they might be thinking about -- someone like Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, or DeMar DeRozan? Those are the names I'm hearing linked to the Knicks.. Forget those guys, man. DeRozan isn't Michael Jordan, not even close, and even Jordan needed a good supporting cast. Mitchell and Gobert are on the same team (supposedly don't like each other anymore), and they're not even there yet..

Up me, I'm concentrating on this draft to keep building the foundation. That's got to be step 1. I have my eye on a few of players in this draft that I've talked about that I think would go a long way toward building a great foundation:

(1) Daniel Oturu -- obviously, if we jump uo into the top 3, you have to consider Wiseman or Toppin. But even Wiseman -- who hear is convinced he's the next David Robinson? I mean based on what exactly?? Yeah, he had a good first couple of games, then got suspended, then elected to not return to school. There's just no body of work there to go on, but ok i get it, he'd have to get a long look with a top-3 pick. I get it. Toppin too. But who are we kidding -- we're the NY Knicks, there's no way we're jumping up 3 spots from 6 to 2 or 3. lol.. So I'm going with we're gonna pick at 6. To me, this dude Oturu is worth pick 6, in this draft or any draft. 6'10" 240, legit center, long, and plays both sides of the ball and impacts all areas you'd expect him to. I know we already have Mitch and I like him but fear he'll never evolve into a complete big man. He'll do what he does and do it well (protect the rim, rebound some, and convert many lobs for dunks). Oturu's a different animal entirely. This kid has those elements plus he's got a budding inside game, can pop in the mid-range and has a very nice looking 3-pt shot for someone that big. With enough touches, I think this guy has 20/10/2 potential. No question in my mind. Who wouldn't want that/what team couldn't us that? As much as I like Mitch, i don't ever see him as a consistent 20/10/2 guy, putting a team on his back a-la Pat Ewing, making all-star teams, etc. I think this kid's worth pick 6, esp. with Wiseman and Toppin off the board. It's about turning every position possible into a net plus -- now Oturu TOGETHER with Robinson -- that's a very good tandem that I'd put up against any team's 5 man duo in the league, so I'd then see the 5 spot as a net plus. I'd be shocked if Oturu didn't pan out into a better version of Al Horford.

(2) At 25, I really like Saddiq Bey. I'm warming up to Aaron Nesmith here but Bey is still my guy. I see Nesmith as more of a 2G; but Bey at 6'8" 220-ish is a legit SF with all the tools. You'd probably expect a little more rebounding from him just looking at the numbers, but that aside, I love his game. Deadly shooter, probably one of 2 of the best shooters in this draft (the other being Nesmith), but I think we should be coveting a SF more. My plan would be to resign both Damyean Dotson and Zo Trier and let them handle the SG spot. I think that would be a good duo there and adequately cover that spot--Rose just needs to get both back on board. I'd then move Barrett over to starting SF and grab Bey in this draft to back him up. So now in my mind -- Oturu/Robinson is a plus at the 5 for years to come, Dot and Trier is a plus at SG, and Barrett/Bey would be a plus at the 3 -- that'd be 3 key positions with good youth/depth/production, that's how I continue to look at it. Only thing I question is if Bey will even be there at 25 -- I don't think he will be. So I think I'd look to use 25 and another asset or 2, whether that be a future draft asset, Frank, DSjr., Knox, Brazdekis, the rights to Sanon/Labeyrie and or Jaramaz, cash, to move up to at least 20 to have a legit shot at this guy. Again, DYNAMITE shooter with more to create for himself in other ways as well.

(3) I understand we need help at the point, I just don't see a star with any of these PGs projected to go top 10. I just don't see the game-changer. In fact, with guys like Ball and Anthony specifically, I see the chance for disappointment because everyone will see them as a game-changer... Personally, I see a lot of value much lower in this draft, specifically with a guy like Devon Dotson. He's the guy I'd target at 38, again using an asset or two to move up a little to secure him. The drawback: he's got small arms, only shot 31% from 3 (down from 36% the year before), and historically Kansas players haven't panned out well in the draft. That aside, i like his game. He got great speed, is strong/a good finisher (good 2-pt %), I like the 3-pt stroke even though the results were a bit low this year, he runs the offense well and he's got quick hands/good instincts defensively. I think he's great value at 38 or a bit higher and a guy worth targeting. Another guy I want a real good look at is this Issuf Sanon. I've seen a lot of tape and I like what I see. This kid reminds me of John Starks a lot. Not sure if he's a pure point (he feels more like a combo guard), but his game's got John Starks written all over it. Just need to see if he can run an offense, even if it's just part time. We need to see that, along with maintaining himself as a scoring threat -- really looking forward to Summer League to take a good look at this guy (if we even have a Summer league, who knows).

(4) The 4th player I'd like to see the Knicks think about targeting in this draft (would have to acquire another pick somehow) is Jalen Smith from Maryland, another guy I've talked about. This dude is 6'10", only about 220, but strong, extremely quick and agile, A FANTASTIC rim protector, excellent rebounder and he's a very good shooter from distance as well. He looks suprisingly strong too -- check out the tape of all his thunder dunks and how he's able to body up down low with players bigger than him. I'm not sure where this guy get picked (I've seen anywhere from the low teens to the 2nd round) but with any available asset(s) left over, I'd look to deal ourselves in for a crack at this guy. Guys like Portis and Gibson probably are only here next year, and that's even debatable (Portis has a team option for over $15mm and Gibson can be waived by a specific date in June and only cost the Knicks $1mm -- I believe Payton, Ellington and Bullock are all in the same boat (can be waived by this date in June and only cost $1mm). Even Randle doesn't feel long-term and could be gone if we found a taker. I'd love to get someone young, talented and cheap to beef up the 4 spot as well.

my plan for what it's worth:
1. Resign Dotson and Trier to man the SG spot. We could do a hell of a lot worse. So one spot instantly fortified here by two semi-already proven players..
2. Move Barrett to starting 3, draft Saddiq Bey to back him up. Aaron Nesmith at 6'6" with that pure stroke is a possibility here too. 3-spot fortified..
3. Grab Daniel Oturu for his legit 20/10/2 production potential in the middle.Together with Mitch, the middle is now fortified for years to come..
4. Put ourselves in position to draft Devon Dotson as a PG in waiting after another year of Payton/DSJr./Frank to see if any of those 3 finally rise to the occasion and seize an opportunity. If not, this guy Dotson would be a great understudy PG prospect in waiting to target late in this draft -- get me this kid, stash him in Westchester and allow him to marinate for the year unless called upon (he'd probably be more of a 2021-22 option -- that's ok, groom him as such). I think the potential's there to be as good as Cole Anthony, who I think is getting hyped to a ridiculous level. My thinking -- we get Cole Anthony at 6, we're set up for some disappointment because everyone would be expecting a game-changer. We get Devon Dotson around 30 or so however, i feel we'll be pleasantly surprised at the value we'd be getting there.
5. Instead of trading all assets for "a disgruntled star," use those assets to go after a 4th draft pick and target Jalen Smith as a quality understudy PF for 2021-22, when guy like Portis and Gibson will be gone (Randle too maybe).
6. If not traded to move up/acquire an additional pick in this draft, give Issuf Sanon a long look in Summer League and see if he's the next John Starks.

Forget this disgruntled star nonsense. That serves us no purpose right now. Start with this draft and build the foundation the right way. Let potential FAs look at a re-tooled roster and see the depth, the youth and the potential.

Field of Dreams -- "If you build it, he will come." Build it first!!!

Daniel Oturu reminds me of Wendell Carter Jr. A solid player with minimal star potential. Wiseman, Toppin, Onyeka have a lot more potential than him

Wiseman and Toppin I can't argue, although I think the jury's still out on Wiseman to keep it real. Look, do I see DeAndre Jordan? No, I think the ceiling is obviously higher than that, but there's no way anyone can convince me he's the next David Robinson. There's just not enough to go on. But that said, absolutely Wiseman, on the size and potential alone, is a consideration in the top 3...Toppin meanwhile, I agree has a chance to be special. I even mentioned both guys as 2 players we couldn't really pass up if we finally got lucky with the ping-pong balls and cracked the top 3. But come on, this is the NY Knicks here -- we're not getting a top 3 pick. So say we stay at 6. I think people are sleeping on Oturu in that range. I think he's worthy of being picked 6th. But hey, let's see where the mock boards are when we get closer to the draft. With Wiseman and Toppin off the board when we pick, and if the consensus is that Oturu goes in the teens or the 20s, I wouldn't be adverse to striking a deal with someone to move down a little to get the guys I want in the name of maximizing our rebuild: something like 6 to Charlotte for 8 & 32; 6 to Boston for 17, 26 and 30 (I like this one -- it would give us 17, 25, 26, 30 and 38, but I'd need a guarantee that Oturu will be there at 17, which I can't really picture); or maybe something like 6 to Dallas for 21, 31, next year's 1st top-10 protected (17?)/Jalen Brunson? (again though, I don't think Oturu will be there at 21)... But if if I'm misjudging Oturu's draft stock and it becomes clear he will be there 16 - 21 and i could grab him AND a couple of other assets to either pick the other players I also want or package with our own picks to move up to get these other guys (Saddiq Bey, Devon Dotson, Jalen Smith), I'd be down for something like that. My main premise is that Oturu is worth pick 6 by himself but if the draft consensus thinks differently, I'd look to take advantage of that. Bottom line -- very high on this player.

I can see the Wendell Carter Jr. comparison too, nice call. About the same size and they showed similar ability and production in college, even their 3-pt numbers were very similar. Still feel like Oturu's the superior overall talent but yeah, it's close (Carter was picked 7th in the 2018 draft too btw). Albeit similar, I personally feel Oturu has an even higher ceiling. That's not trying to sell Carter short -- I think he's a real good young big man who's been productive -- he was practically averaging a double-double this year in about 29 mins per, but on only 8 shot attempts a game so far and I'm sure a few of those are on put backs and garbage buckets around the rim (averaged 11.3 ppg this year). Tells me Chicago's offense doesn't feature him much (he might be the 3rd or 4th option there, not sure). If Carter's usage and touches continue to climb however (maybe he's at 15 ppg with 13 shots; close to 20 ppg with over 15 shots per?), he could be close to that 20/10/2 level I'm forecasting for Oturu in the NBA (and that type of production is all-star caliber or damn close). It's all relative i suppose -- all about the touches and usage and how to deploy your big man...Similar ability and potential though - I like the comparison. Agreed.

There's a lot to like with Okongwu -- he's a brute physical presence, athletic, a superb rim protector, quality rebounder, even shows a little left hand finishing around the rim -- I just don't see the more fully developed offensive game Oturu showed this year. He can't shoot the ball like Otruru, for one thing. I think at 6, I like Oturu's full game a little better. Close though. Plus, Oturu feels a little more like a legit 5 man; Okongwu's a 4 all the way in the NBA. Not to say we couldn't use another 4 in waiting -- Jalen Smith would be my guy here to get with an extra pick.

[HarthorneWingo]

Read on Twitter

I'd punch him in the balls if tried that on me.

Melo And1s it, of course. Dunking on some 5'4" guy.

[WargamesX]

I think I said before consider RJ’s main strength is driving in the paint and Mitch being a rim runner. I still think Haliburton is the best fit. He can play as a secondary ball handler and has NBA 3 pt range which is what is needed to open the paint for RJ. I also think if Saddiq falls out the lottery the Knicks should use cash and future picks to go after him as well for the same reason. Adding two guys with NBA range who don’t need the ball to be effective on the court is important. The fact they can both play competent defense also would help if the move is for Thibs to be the coach.

I still think we're at the point in our rebuild that we can swing for the fences and go with the best talent. I know we desperately need shooting but we still need that number one guy. I'm just not sure RJ is that guy. He's really good and is going to be a 20 ppg scorer but more like a 2 or 3. Haliburton just screams role player to me and don't know if that jumper of his will translate cuz it's low and slow.

I think his jumper will translate. His jumper is like Jaren Jackson Jr. I thought Jaren's shot was not going to translate despite the good percentages and it did. Im not making that same mistake again so I am buying into Haliburton's shot lol

Watch on YouTube

There are certain aspects of his game that are intriguing. He’s not flashy but I think his style of play is what you need to win games.The efficiency and BBIQ plus his size and ability to be effective off ball. Also just watching this video I really like his fit next to RJ and Frank as the complimentary guard.

Frank/RJ
Frank/Hal
RJ/Hal

Could handle all the ball handling duties plus it would be decent defensively.

Let’s say the goal is Thibs as coach

Add a 3&D SF and say a Stretch 4 (Wood/Knox) and a rim runner big like Mitch (who needs a a pick and pop shot....) and that’s a a good Thibs team. Great size, good defensive pieces (except for the 4, though I think they would be used to crash the glass). RJ can handle the point of attack (like Rose). It’s a better team for a guy like Thib than what he was working with the wolves.


Yeah we need a definite star for playoffs (I cant wait for that to be a “problem”) but that is the core you try to sell to a star.

[jvsimonetti0514]

I think I said before consider RJ’s main strength is driving in the paint and Mitch being a rim runner. I still think Haliburton is the best fit. He can play as a secondary ball handler and has NBA 3 pt range which is what is needed to open the paint for RJ. I also think if Saddiq falls out the lottery the Knicks should use cash and future picks to go after him as well for the same reason. Adding two guys with NBA range who don’t need the ball to be effective on the court is important. The fact they can both play competent defense also would help if the move is for Thibs to be the coach.

I still think we're at the point in our rebuild that we can swing for the fences and go with the best talent. I know we desperately need shooting but we still need that number one guy. I'm just not sure RJ is that guy. He's really good and is going to be a 20 ppg scorer but more like a 2 or 3. Haliburton just screams role player to me and don't know if that jumper of his will translate cuz it's low and slow.

I think his jumper will translate. His jumper is like Jaren Jackson Jr. I thought Jaren's shot was not going to translate despite the good percentages and it did. Im not making that same mistake again so I am buying into Haliburton's shot lol

oh man I was a huge swing and miss on JJJ. He was so foul prone MSU I thought he'd never stay on the court. I think him being 7 foot helps with him getting that shot off but if we draft Haliburton I hope I'm wrong and if we don't I hope I'm right.

[Fat]

I think I said before consider RJ’s main strength is driving in the paint and Mitch being a rim runner. I still think Haliburton is the best fit. He can play as a secondary ball handler and has NBA 3 pt range which is what is needed to open the paint for RJ. I also think if Saddiq falls out the lottery the Knicks should use cash and future picks to go after him as well for the same reason. Adding two guys with NBA range who don’t need the ball to be effective on the court is important. The fact they can both play competent defense also would help if the move is for Thibs to be the coach.

I still think we're at the point in our rebuild that we can swing for the fences and go with the best talent. I know we desperately need shooting but we still need that number one guy. I'm just not sure RJ is that guy. He's really good and is going to be a 20 ppg scorer but more like a 2 or 3. Haliburton just screams role player to me and don't know if that jumper of his will translate cuz it's low and slow.

I think his jumper will translate. His jumper is like Jaren Jackson Jr. I thought Jaren's shot was not going to translate despite the good percentages and it did. Im not making that same mistake again so I am buying into Haliburton's shot lol

There two different positions though.

Depends what the team that drafts hailburton is looking for out of him. If He’s being drafted to play more of a side role and hit open shots, defend, make the right passes he should translate just fine along with his jumper.

If a team is drafting him and expecting him to play like some kind of go to point guard for their franchise then that probably won’t work out to well I don’t feel thAts his DNA. However if it is he’ll definitely be a steal pick.

But to me he is pretty much a high quality role player like a Malcolm brodgon

[WargamesX]

I still think we're at the point in our rebuild that we can swing for the fences and go with the best talent. I know we desperately need shooting but we still need that number one guy. I'm just not sure RJ is that guy. He's really good and is going to be a 20 ppg scorer but more like a 2 or 3. Haliburton just screams role player to me and don't know if that jumper of his will translate cuz it's low and slow.

I think his jumper will translate. His jumper is like Jaren Jackson Jr. I thought Jaren's shot was not going to translate despite the good percentages and it did. Im not making that same mistake again so I am buying into Haliburton's shot lol

There two different positions though.

Depends what the team that drafts hailburton is looking for out of him. If He’s being drafted to play more of a side role and hit open shots, defend, make the right passes he should translate just fine along with his jumper.

If a team is drafting him and expecting him to play like some kind of go to point guard for their franchise then that probably won’t work out to well I don’t feel thAts his DNA. However if it is he’ll definitely be a steal pick.

But to me he is pretty much a high quality role player like a Malcolm brodgon

I do think Haliburton is Lonzo Ball/Malcolm Brogdon player is a good comparison to Hal. However, I wish the knicks had either Lonzo/Malcolm on the team right now. Either player would be one of the best players on the team and considered part of the core next to RJ and Mitch. It would also let Frank take on a Marcus Smart role for the Knicks where he could thrive off the bench as a defensive disrupter PG.

[spree8]

I wouldn’t mind Jahmi’us Ramsey with the LAC pick n Jay Scrubb with our 2nd rounder.

[knickstape21]

I wouldn’t mind Jahmi’us Ramsey with the LAC pick n Jay Scrubb with our 2nd rounder.

Getting Ramsey at 27 would be incredible.

[spree8]

I wouldn’t mind Jahmi’us Ramsey with the LAC pick n Jay Scrubb with our 2nd rounder.

Getting Ramsey at 27 would be incredible.

Yea I dunno why he’s projected that far down on the mocks I've seen..

[RHODEY]

Hayes vs Haliburton

https://thebasketballnetwork.com/tyrese-haliburton-killian-hayes-whos-better/

[Zenzibar]

I wouldn’t mind Jahmi’us Ramsey with the LAC pick n Jay Scrubb with our 2nd rounder.

Getting Ramsey at 27 would be incredible.

Yea I dunno why he’s projected that far down on the mocks I've seen..

Cause he's a nut and reminds me of Alonzo Trier.

[Fat]

I wouldn’t mind Jahmi’us Ramsey with the LAC pick n Jay Scrubb with our 2nd rounder.

Yeah definitely take Ramsey if he’s there at 27. Good 3&D player and only 18.

His free throw shooting is kind of suspect though 64% but his 3 point shooting is 40%

[WargamesX]

I really think we should combine 27, 38, and that Mavs 2023 pick and try to move up to the late teens in the draft and get Saddiq Bay or Devon Vassell if they are available.

[spree8]

Bane is good too... wouldn’t mind him at the 2 next to RJ at the 3.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Hayes vs Haliburton

https://thebasketballnetwork.com/tyrese-haliburton-killian-hayes-whos-better/

I like them both, but give me Hayes. I think he has a lot of room for improvement and his game/style will translate well.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Ian Begley has another mailbag article today and when the draft was brought up he mentioned Kira Lewis again someone the Knicks liked. That’s the second article from the Knicks beat that has mentioned him. That’s a lot smoke around him to think that the Knicks aren’t interested in him. Don’t be shocked if he works his way into the top 10. The only knock on him is his slight frame.

[HarthorneWingo]

Ian Begley has another mailbag article today and when the draft was brought up he mentioned Kira Lewis again someone the Knicks liked. That’s the second article from the Knicks beat that has mentioned him. That’s a lot smoke around him to think that the Knicks aren’t interested in him. Don’t be shocked if he works his way into the top 10. The only knock on him is his slight frame.

Smoke screen. Ain't no 165 lbs. gnat playing for the Knicks next season.