Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released)

[casual_raps_fan]

What does he do better than Paul Reed; who plays a position of need? This articles has some nice breakdown of his game.

http://www.raptorscage.ca/the-late-20s-paul-reed/

Paul Reed has character, and has great stats and overall progression. Yet, I cannot reconcile that with the eye test. His video makes him look like Marvin Williams - can stretch the floor a bit but not a great handle to do anything more than straight-line drives. Just a heady player but not a special athlete.

I think it is fair to ask how much of ceiling he has as a prospect. Can this guy defend multiple positions? Can he play C or SF, or is he more of an undersized PF. To me, he seems like a guy that is too good for college but in the G-League he would be one of those guys that are borderline NBA guys.

To me he's like a lanky version of OG. He has such good instincts on defense and doesn't look off-balance. Siakam didn't any better running the floor as a playmaker. His ceiling is 1st team all NBA defense and 3rd team on offense. Paul Reed sounds like someone that can raise their perceived ceiling.

Even if he ends up as a Marvin Williams, that’s pretty good for a 28th pick too. In fact we could use a player like Marvin Williams on the team right now to replace rhj and/or Boucher.

There is risk in drafting him (just like anybody) but like you said, he has a very high ceiling and I think his floor will be a serviceable player in the nba.

The raptors have done an amazing job in the past with these types of players.

edit: All that being said, he probably won't be available at our pick.

[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

What does he do better than Paul Reed; who plays a position of need? I suppose passing and 3pt shooting (which can be worked on).

This articles has some nice breakdown of his game.

http://www.raptorscage.ca/the-late-20s-paul-reed/

The point is that Paul Reed has character. His career trajectory once he makes it to the NBA will incline. His work ethic, and love for the game can be seen through his eye-catching rise in the rankings over the past couple of years alone.

In high school, Reed was never ranked by ESPN top 100. In his senior year, he was ranked the 271st best high school player in the nation by 247 Sports, with nearly a 0% chance of making it to the NBA. As a freshman at DePaul, Reed played less than 10 minutes per game, and put up less than four points per game. Even by that point, nobody had him on their radar to go to the big leagues, except for himself.

It was in the 2018-2019 season after one of Paul’s teammates had graduated that he began to see more floor time, and his production spiked along with that. He took advantage of the 26.9 minutes that he earned, and produced 12.3 points per game on an efficient 56.2% from the floor and 40.5% from deep, while also improving his free throw percentage by 19.1%.

Paul was available for an interview, and when asked what got him into basketball, he responded “What made me fall in love with basketball is just the amount of fun that I had playing it.”

CJ is a better shooter from 3 pt land and from the ft line. CJ is a better passer, dribbler, can create for others and is very comparable on the boards despite being 4 inches shorter in stature. Both seem like very solid defenders while Elleby has shown the ability to switch off and guard that Reed hasn't.

As well as CJ has a major chip on his shoulder because has been overlooked from college recruiters (wanted to go to the University of Washington) while playing for both his father (Bill Elleby) and uncle (Carl Ervin) who was one of the greatest HS players in Seattle and collegiately at Seattle U who recently passed away. CJ is best friends with Kevin Porter Jr (Cavs) as they grew up together. Kevin Porter Jr was called the steal of the past draft due to where he was drafted (#27) and the impact that he had for the Cavs. Elleby is just as good as Kevin Porter Jr.

That site that profiles Paul Reed takes some of their info from ESPN and NBADraft.net for those who questioned NBADraft.net's credibility. Reed is currently #43 in NBADraft.net's mock draft while Elleby is at #37. Both could sneak in at the end of the first round as all it takes is one team to like them enough to draft them in the first round.

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[casual_raps_fan]

Doubt it maybe a deep second at best

Related to a thought I've had for awhile now but I'm wondering if the Raptors are preparing to cash in on Norm. He's ready to get a starting gig somewhere and will be expiring 2021. Anybody have any idea on who might be interested and what his value might be?

After his season he should be able to net us a pretty high pick (maybe top 15ish), would consider trading him if someone like Tyrese Maxey falls into that range. New Orleans stands out to me as a potential trade partner.

I don't think that we do move him though although it would make sense if they don't plant to resign him in 21. Might hinge on what happens with Vanvleet.

The New Orleans pick would be around 13th. Sounds ok I guess. We would need sweeteners.

We probably won't be getting many opportunities to grab lottery picks for awhile and the Raptors themselves won't be missing the playoffs anytime soon. If there's a guy the Raptors really like in the draft, this could be a good opportunity to grab him.

I haven't looked at the late lottery prospects. I'll check out Tyrese Maxey footage when I have time.

edit: I think we can assume Fred will be back. Obviously it's not a done deal but he's our #1 priority this offseason and the Raptors have made it clear to him that he is our guy (starter). Fred will get payed and he knows he will be a starter in a winning situation. He's smart and will stay.

[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

Related to a thought I've had for awhile now but I'm wondering if the Raptors are preparing to cash in on Norm. He's ready to get a starting gig somewhere and will be expiring 2021. Anybody have any idea on who might be interested and what his value might be?

After his season he should be able to net us a pretty high pick (maybe top 15ish), would consider trading him if someone like Tyrese Maxey falls into that range. New Orleans stands out to me as a potential trade partner.

I don't think that we do move him though although it would make sense if they don't plant to resign him in 21. Might hinge on what happens with Vanvleet.

The New Orleans pick would be around 13th. Sounds ok I guess. We would need sweeteners.

We probably won't be getting many opportunities to grab lottery picks for awhile and the Raptors themselves won't be missing the playoffs anytime soon. If there's a guy the Raptors really like in the draft, this could be a good opportunity to grab him.

I haven't looked at the late lottery prospects. I'll check out Tyrese Maxey footage when I have time.

edit: I think we can assume Fred will be back. Obviously it's not a done deal but he's our #1 priority this offseason and the Raptors have made it clear to him that he is our guy (starter). Fred will get payed and he knows he will be a starter in a winning situation. He's smart and will stay.

If the Raptors trade up for anyone they should trade up for SF 6'10 Jaden McDaniels (Washington)...he would blow up in the Raptors player development system. He is another 2020 draft prospect that is a gym rat not a club hopper ala DeMar DeRozan. No prospect in the 2020 draft has as much upside as he does in my mind. Jaden has all the tools that it takes to be a star in the NBA but he just needs to get a little stronger while continuing to improve on his overall skill set but the talent is there. Think KD type of potential.

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[BoyzNTheHood]

After his season he should be able to net us a pretty high pick (maybe top 15ish), would consider trading him if someone like Tyrese Maxey falls into that range. New Orleans stands out to me as a potential trade partner.

I don't think that we do move him though although it would make sense if they don't plant to resign him in 21. Might hinge on what happens with Vanvleet.

The New Orleans pick would be around 13th. Sounds ok I guess. We would need sweeteners.

We probably won't be getting many opportunities to grab lottery picks for awhile and the Raptors themselves won't be missing the playoffs anytime soon. If there's a guy the Raptors really like in the draft, this could be a good opportunity to grab him.

I haven't looked at the late lottery prospects. I'll check out Tyrese Maxey footage when I have time.

edit: I think we can assume Fred will be back. Obviously it's not a done deal but he's our #1 priority this offseason and the Raptors have made it clear to him that he is our guy (starter). Fred will get payed and he knows he will be a starter in a winning situation. He's smart and will stay.

If the Raptors trade up for anyone they should trade up for SF 6'10 Jaden McDaniels (Washington)...he would blow up in the Raptors player development system. He is another 2020 draft prospect that is a gym rat not a club hopper ala DeMar DeRozan. No prospect in the 2020 draft has as much upside as he does in my mind. Jaden has all the tools that it takes to be a star in the NBA but he just needs to get a little stronger while continuing to improve on his overall skill set but the talent is there. Think KD type of potential.

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He definitely doesn't have KD potential. He projects more as a Jonathan Isaac type at full potential.

[HeadtopChunes]

His game is far better rounded than Terry though. Terry doesn't have the ball handling that you would expect from a player his size AND you're probably going to have to hide him on defence. Elleby's ball handling is fine for a player his size/position and he has good steal block statistics along with decent size which gives him potential to be an above average defender.

I have interest in Terry but I'm having a hard time seeing him contributing enough on offence to makeup for what he doesn't bring.

Well, I think a handle is one of the easier things to improve and Terry already has some solid vision/passing skills. I doubt he's ever a true point but I think he can bring value as a combo. I like Terry as a college defender, but he will definitely be a NBA negative until he can put on some strength. Given the potentially elite shooting, okay ball-handling, and potential to be a net 0 defender in a couple of years I like what Terry can become as a high-end rotation player.

Like I mentioned earlier with Elleby, jack of all trades college types don't tend to translate well on to NBA teams. His best skill is shooting but he didn't do that well and nothing else about his game stands out to me, so what's the point in playing him if he doesn't make a meaningful impact on either side of the court? Even if Terry is a negative defender in the NBA, he can at least provide significant offensive impact. For example, Seth Curry was 54th in the league in OPIPM this year, ahead of guys like Lou Will, Joel Embiid, Derozan etc.) It's not sexy but there's definitely value to that type of player.

You bring up a lot of good points. I'd like to reposition my stance that I would prefer not grabbing either of them.

Regards to Elleby, after thinking it through, you're right. He has a low floor since he doesn't have a skill that's ready for the NBA. He has potential to be a rotational level player but is more likely to bust. At the NBA level, he will be more style than substance.

Terry is still interesting but his floor is pretty low and his ceiling is barely a starter. He'd have to become an absolute beast at shooting and off ball movement for him to reach that point and it's probably unlikely. He seems like the opposite of a Raptors draft selection.

I agree that Terry isn’t really consistent with the Raptors draft philosophy, but I disagree w/ your evaluation of his celing. Terry has potential to be a great off the dribble 3pt shooter which has a ton of value (especially with the deep range he’s shown) because of how much it compromises PnR defenses. Look at Devonte Graham this season for example who provided all star level impact at times despite his awful finishing.

I understand if anyone wants to avoid the risk of having to bulk him up 15-20lbs at the very least and for him improve his handle. But i do think he has a pretty high ceiling.

[HeadtopChunes]

Related to a thought I've had for awhile now but I'm wondering if the Raptors are preparing to cash in on Norm. He's ready to get a starting gig somewhere and will be expiring 2021. Anybody have any idea on who might be interested and what his value might be?

After his season he should be able to net us a pretty high pick (maybe top 15ish), would consider trading him if someone like Tyrese Maxey falls into that range. New Orleans stands out to me as a potential trade partner.

I don't think that we do move him though although it would make sense if they don't plant to resign him in 21. Might hinge on what happens with Vanvleet.

The New Orleans pick would be around 13th. Sounds ok I guess. We would need sweeteners.

We probably won't be getting many opportunities to grab lottery picks for awhile and the Raptors themselves won't be missing the playoffs anytime soon. If there's a guy the Raptors really like in the draft, this could be a good opportunity to grab him.

I haven't looked at the late lottery prospects. I'll check out Tyrese Maxey footage when I have time.

edit: I think we can assume Fred will be back. Obviously it's not a done deal but he's our #1 priority this offseason and the Raptors have made it clear to him that he is our guy (starter). Fred will get payed and he knows he will be a starter in a winning situation. He's smart and will stay.

With the flat talent curve of the draft and the fact that first round picks means garunteed money, this might be the easiest draft to trade up in a while. Will be interesting to see what happens there.

[HeadtopChunes]

I like Tyler Bey better than Paul Reed in the same archetype. Comparable defender, better athlete and appears like a better bet to shoot.

Theo Maledon is also interesting as a potential trade up guy, 6’5 long armed combo with interesting potential as a pull up shooter and one of the youngest guys in the draft. Similar archetype to Terry minus the potential as a special shooter but compensates w/ size and pedigree.

[God Squad]

The New Orleans pick would be around 13th. Sounds ok I guess. We would need sweeteners.

We probably won't be getting many opportunities to grab lottery picks for awhile and the Raptors themselves won't be missing the playoffs anytime soon. If there's a guy the Raptors really like in the draft, this could be a good opportunity to grab him.

I haven't looked at the late lottery prospects. I'll check out Tyrese Maxey footage when I have time.

edit: I think we can assume Fred will be back. Obviously it's not a done deal but he's our #1 priority this offseason and the Raptors have made it clear to him that he is our guy (starter). Fred will get payed and he knows he will be a starter in a winning situation. He's smart and will stay.

If the Raptors trade up for anyone they should trade up for SF 6'10 Jaden McDaniels (Washington)...he would blow up in the Raptors player development system. He is another 2020 draft prospect that is a gym rat not a club hopper ala DeMar DeRozan. No prospect in the 2020 draft has as much upside as he does in my mind. Jaden has all the tools that it takes to be a star in the NBA but he just needs to get a little stronger while continuing to improve on his overall skill set but the talent is there. Think KD type of potential.

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He definitely doesn't have KD potential. He projects more as a Jonathan Isaac type at full potential.

Absolutely don't see KD's potential. Jaden underwhelmed and looked lazy or uninterested a lot of the time. He'd be lucky to hit Brandon Ingram's potential.

[God Squad]

With that said would absolutely take a chance on him hoping he can develop into something useful.

[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

If the Raptors trade up for anyone they should trade up for SF 6'10 Jaden McDaniels (Washington)...he would blow up in the Raptors player development system. He is another 2020 draft prospect that is a gym rat not a club hopper ala DeMar DeRozan. No prospect in the 2020 draft has as much upside as he does in my mind. Jaden has all the tools that it takes to be a star in the NBA but he just needs to get a little stronger while continuing to improve on his overall skill set but the talent is there. Think KD type of potential.

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He definitely doesn't have KD potential. He projects more as a Jonathan Isaac type at full potential.

Absolutely don't see KD's potential. Jaden underwhelmed and looked lazy or uninterested a lot of the time. He'd be lucky to hit Brandon Ingram's potential.

Lazy is not a term I would use with him or any prospect. Most of these prospects work hard to get where they are. If you watched Jaden play this past season he was never lazy. He had his ups and downs as most Freshman do but he always played hard on both ends of the court. I think that he can easily be a Brandon Ingram type of player but he's a better shot blocker than Ingram. His best case scenario is a KD type of player once his body fills out. He is an excellent weak side shot blocker like KD. He has that much talent and is only going to get better as he matures. In the right system and with the right organization his talent will blossom to its full potential.

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[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

The New Orleans pick would be around 13th. Sounds ok I guess. We would need sweeteners.

We probably won't be getting many opportunities to grab lottery picks for awhile and the Raptors themselves won't be missing the playoffs anytime soon. If there's a guy the Raptors really like in the draft, this could be a good opportunity to grab him.

I haven't looked at the late lottery prospects. I'll check out Tyrese Maxey footage when I have time.

edit: I think we can assume Fred will be back. Obviously it's not a done deal but he's our #1 priority this offseason and the Raptors have made it clear to him that he is our guy (starter). Fred will get payed and he knows he will be a starter in a winning situation. He's smart and will stay.

If the Raptors trade up for anyone they should trade up for SF 6'10 Jaden McDaniels (Washington)...he would blow up in the Raptors player development system. He is another 2020 draft prospect that is a gym rat not a club hopper ala DeMar DeRozan. No prospect in the 2020 draft has as much upside as he does in my mind. Jaden has all the tools that it takes to be a star in the NBA but he just needs to get a little stronger while continuing to improve on his overall skill set but the talent is there. Think KD type of potential.

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He definitely doesn't have KD potential. He projects more as a Jonathan Isaac type at full potential.

I disagree. He has that KD type of game on both ends of the court. Brandon Ingram is a better comparison than Jonathan Isaac.

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[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

I like Tyler Bey better than Paul Reed in the same archetype. Comparable defender, better athlete and appears like a better bet to shoot.

Theo Maledon is also interesting as a potential trade up guy, 6’5 long armed combo with interesting potential as a pull up shooter and one of the youngest guys in the draft. Similar archetype to Terry minus the potential as a special shooter but compensates w/ size and pedigree.

CJ is a better player than Theo Maledon. Tyler Bey isn't better than CJ Elleby. This is coming from someone who watched a lot of Pac-12 basketball. In the Pac-12 tournament CJ Elleby was by far the best player on the court when an undermanned Washington State team defeated a more talented Colorado squad. Bey couldn't stop Elleby.

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[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

Well, I think a handle is one of the easier things to improve and Terry already has some solid vision/passing skills. I doubt he's ever a true point but I think he can bring value as a combo. I like Terry as a college defender, but he will definitely be a NBA negative until he can put on some strength. Given the potentially elite shooting, okay ball-handling, and potential to be a net 0 defender in a couple of years I like what Terry can become as a high-end rotation player.

Like I mentioned earlier with Elleby, jack of all trades college types don't tend to translate well on to NBA teams. His best skill is shooting but he didn't do that well and nothing else about his game stands out to me, so what's the point in playing him if he doesn't make a meaningful impact on either side of the court? Even if Terry is a negative defender in the NBA, he can at least provide significant offensive impact. For example, Seth Curry was 54th in the league in OPIPM this year, ahead of guys like Lou Will, Joel Embiid, Derozan etc.) It's not sexy but there's definitely value to that type of player.

You bring up a lot of good points. I'd like to reposition my stance that I would prefer not grabbing either of them.

Regards to Elleby, after thinking it through, you're right. He has a low floor since he doesn't have a skill that's ready for the NBA. He has potential to be a rotational level player but is more likely to bust. At the NBA level, he will be more style than substance.

Terry is still interesting but his floor is pretty low and his ceiling is barely a starter. He'd have to become an absolute beast at shooting and off ball movement for him to reach that point and it's probably unlikely. He seems like the opposite of a Raptors draft selection.

I agree that Terry isn’t really consistent with the Raptors draft philosophy, but I disagree w/ your evaluation of his celing. Terry has potential to be a great off the dribble 3pt shooter which has a ton of value (especially with the deep range he’s shown) because of how much it compromises PnR defenses. Look at Devonte Graham this season for example who provided all star level impact at times despite his awful finishing.

I understand if anyone wants to avoid the risk of having to bulk him up 15-20lbs at the very least and for him improve his handle. But i do think he has a pretty high ceiling.

I'm surprised that Tyrell Terry is even declaring for the draft as he never looked that impressive at Stanford in my eyes. He had a few good games but didn't really stand out in any aspect. If his shot wasn't falling he didn't really make an impact on the game. His defense left a lot to be desired. He was constantly getting blown past by Pac-12 pgs. He will get killed on defense by NBA pgs. In the Pac-12 tournament he only had 6 pts as Stanford lost to California (the 3rd worst team in the Pac-12) 63-51. Tyrell Terry is another Pac-12 guard that CJ Elleby is better than.

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[Syd-TK3]

I like Vassell better than McDaniels honestly

[God Squad]

I like Vassell better than McDaniels honestly

Obviously. Vassell actually played well and won games. Vassel will be gone by lottery. Mcdaniels could be there because he had a bad season. With that said Mcdaniels will never be KD. KD has an elite handle which makes KD who he is. Mcdaniels is closer to Quincy Miller than Ingram or KD.

[God Squad]

You bring up a lot of good points. I'd like to reposition my stance that I would prefer not grabbing either of them.

Regards to Elleby, after thinking it through, you're right. He has a low floor since he doesn't have a skill that's ready for the NBA. He has potential to be a rotational level player but is more likely to bust. At the NBA level, he will be more style than substance.

Terry is still interesting but his floor is pretty low and his ceiling is barely a starter. He'd have to become an absolute beast at shooting and off ball movement for him to reach that point and it's probably unlikely. He seems like the opposite of a Raptors draft selection.

I agree that Terry isn’t really consistent with the Raptors draft philosophy, but I disagree w/ your evaluation of his celing. Terry has potential to be a great off the dribble 3pt shooter which has a ton of value (especially with the deep range he’s shown) because of how much it compromises PnR defenses. Look at Devonte Graham this season for example who provided all star level impact at times despite his awful finishing.

I understand if anyone wants to avoid the risk of having to bulk him up 15-20lbs at the very least and for him improve his handle. But i do think he has a pretty high ceiling.

I'm surprised that Tyrell Terry is even declaring for the draft as he never looked that impressive at Stanford in my eyes. He had a few good games but didn't really stand out in any aspect. If his shot wasn't falling he didn't really make an impact on the game. His defense left a lot to be desired. He was constantly getting blown past by Pac-12 pgs. He will get killed on defense by NBA pgs. In the Pac-12 tournament he only had 6 pts as Stanford lost to California (the 3rd worst team in the Pac-12) 63-51. Tyrell Terry is another Pac-12 guard that CJ Elleby is better than.

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Why do you continuously post the same 4-5 videos trying to sway people? Every day the same 4-5 trying to hype Elleby

[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

I agree that Terry isn’t really consistent with the Raptors draft philosophy, but I disagree w/ your evaluation of his celing. Terry has potential to be a great off the dribble 3pt shooter which has a ton of value (especially with the deep range he’s shown) because of how much it compromises PnR defenses. Look at Devonte Graham this season for example who provided all star level impact at times despite his awful finishing.

I understand if anyone wants to avoid the risk of having to bulk him up 15-20lbs at the very least and for him improve his handle. But i do think he has a pretty high ceiling.

I'm surprised that Tyrell Terry is even declaring for the draft as he never looked that impressive at Stanford in my eyes. He had a few good games but didn't really stand out in any aspect. If his shot wasn't falling he didn't really make an impact on the game. His defense left a lot to be desired. He was constantly getting blown past by Pac-12 pgs. He will get killed on defense by NBA pgs. In the Pac-12 tournament he only had 6 pts as Stanford lost to California (the 3rd worst team in the Pac-12) 63-51. Tyrell Terry is another Pac-12 guard that CJ Elleby is better than.

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Why do you continuously post the same 4-5 videos trying to sway people? Every day the same 4-5 trying to hype Elleby

It's my prerogative to post as I wish as it is yours. You support the players that you want to and I'll do the same. It's not like Masai Ujiri is going to read RealGM and then decide who to draft based on any posts...Peace

[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

I like Vassell better than McDaniels honestly

Obviously. Vassell actually played well and won games. Vassel will be gone by lottery. Mcdaniels could be there because he had a bad season. With that said Mcdaniels will never be KD. KD has an elite handle which makes KD who he is. Mcdaniels is closer to Quincy Miller than Ingram or KD.

Obviously? Really? Vassell played on the better team in college but Jaden is the better prospect/player. I highly doubt that Vassell will be picked higher than Jaden in the 2020 NBA draft. Jaden has top 3 talent in this draft. Time will tell.

The NBA game is much different than the college game. Jaden McDaniels is on another level than Vassell physically and skill wise. Jaden's skill set is perfect for the wide open NBA style of play. Being 6'10 and still growing with unlimited upside on his potential. Jaden is just scratching the surface of his potential. In 2-3 seasons as his body fills out he will begin to flourish in the NBA.

Jaden has elite handles that will only get tighter over time as he was consistently bringing the ball up against full court pressure for the Huskies this season. Quincy Miller? Really now? Not saying he will be exactly like KD in the NBA but he has a lot of KD like characteristics in his game. It wouldn't surprise me if he reaches that level over time being only 19 years old with a ton of room to grow his game and skill level.

Just like Jaden rose from ranked 90th top top 5 his senior year of HS his game will continue to rise on the NBA level where he can focus on basketball 100% of his time with no classes to worry about. Also, Jaden's brother Jalen played well for Charlotte this season and Jaden is much better than his brother.

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[Kevin Willis]

I agree that Terry isn’t really consistent with the Raptors draft philosophy, but I disagree w/ your evaluation of his celing. Terry has potential to be a great off the dribble 3pt shooter which has a ton of value (especially with the deep range he’s shown) because of how much it compromises PnR defenses. Look at Devonte Graham this season for example who provided all star level impact at times despite his awful finishing.

I understand if anyone wants to avoid the risk of having to bulk him up 15-20lbs at the very least and for him improve his handle. But i do think he has a pretty high ceiling.

I'm surprised that Tyrell Terry is even declaring for the draft as he never looked that impressive at Stanford in my eyes. He had a few good games but didn't really stand out in any aspect. If his shot wasn't falling he didn't really make an impact on the game. His defense left a lot to be desired. He was constantly getting blown past by Pac-12 pgs. He will get killed on defense by NBA pgs. In the Pac-12 tournament he only had 6 pts as Stanford lost to California (the 3rd worst team in the Pac-12) 63-51. Tyrell Terry is another Pac-12 guard that CJ Elleby is better than.

Why do you continuously post the same 4-5 videos trying to sway people? Every day the same 4-5 trying to hype Elleby

Sir-swish-a-lot is the best hype man on this board. He has to be in sales with all his pitches and his persistence.