OT: COVID-19 thread #2

[dice]

China is currently pinpointing the US military as the origin of the virus, in their propaganda. So what, even China doesn't believe its original virus origin story? People who believe anything the CCP says, they're the ones with the plausibility problem.

you avoided the question: why would china TELL THE TRUTH about the origin being in wuhan if they were creating the virus in a wuhan lab? it simply makes no sense to invite the scrutiny

Never said they created it, maybe it leaked accidentally. Unlike you, I'm open to all possibilities. Don't put words in my mouth.

excuse me? you just put words in MY mouth. i never claimed that you said they created it. but in order for it to be leaked (purposefully or otherwise), it must first be created. obviously

meanwhile, you're putting out strawman arguments like "people who believe anything the CCP says...", as if there is anybody outside of china who isn't at minimum suspicious about anything they say

The answer to your question is simple, and it's the same answer to the other question you can't wrap your head around. Why would China report 80,000 cases, when the actual figure is estimated (by US and UK military officials) to be 15x to 50x that number?

Because the CCP really is that bad at lying.

that is a completely horrendous cop-out answer

so a chinese lab that has been criticized for their practices accidentally (?) leaks COVID-19 into the general population, the CCP knows about it and decides to tell the world that it occurred naturally. and the location they choose is right next to that very lab...because they're bad liars? fantastic theory

p.s.: those secretive chinese commies sure are providing a lot of infection data to us!

Said dice sincerely, without irony. Sometimes they fool people, don't sweat it, dice.

i've also said that they're almost certainly under-reporting. so i haven't been fooled about jack-****. funny how you didn't quote that part. because you're intellectually dishonest. so your little "gotcha" quote just blew up in your face

[Nikola]

there is NO LINK TO COVID-19 in that! it is not even hinted that COVID-19 was the result of lab work. how are you not understanding this?

additionally, national review is a conservative publication. their instinct to shift blame to china despite trump's woeful mismanagement of this crisis is natural

finally, the US MILITARY is saying that the origins were natural despite suggestions coming out of china that the US military was responsible! direct refutation of your article:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/covid-19-origin-lab-general-mark-milley

you still didn't answer the basic question! the "big coincidence" only exists because the chinese government didn't try to cover up the location of origin! WHY didn't they say that the virus originated further away from the lab? it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE that they wouldn't do that if there was a conspiracy involved

scientific consensus

How would they know what covid-19 was in 2018? How are you not able to see a coincidence here?

How would China change the place where the spread started? Ship the sick people to a different city?

Your source isn't 100% certain. And a wide variety of professionals have been wrong during this ordeal. How long were ventilators talked about and there ended up never being a shortage and now there is serious questions about if they are even very effective. Travel bans were called racist at first. Original death estimates of 2.2 million were way over.

“There’s a lot of rumour and speculation in a wide variety of media, blog sites, etc,” Milley told reporters at the Pentagon on Tuesday. “It should be no surprise to you that we’ve taken a keen interest in that, and we’ve had a lot of intelligence look at that. And I would just say at this point, it’s inconclusive, although the weight of evidence seems to indicate natural. But we don’t know for certain.”

[lemonmellow]

you avoided the question: why would china TELL THE TRUTH about the origin being in wuhan if they were creating the virus in a wuhan lab? it simply makes no sense to invite the scrutiny

Never said they created it, maybe it leaked accidentally. Unlike you, I'm open to all possibilities. Don't put words in my mouth.

excuse me? you just put words in MY mouth. i never claimed that you said they created it

meanwhile, you're putting out strawman arguments like "people who believe anything the CCP says...", as if there is anybody outside of china who isn't at minimum suspicious about anything they say

The answer to your question is simple, and it's the same answer to the other question you can't wrap your head around. Why would China report 80,000 cases, when the actual figure is estimated (by US and UK military officials) to be 15x to 50x that number?

Because the CCP really is that bad at lying.

that is a completely horrendous cop-out answer

so a chinese lab that has been criticized for their practices accidentally (?) leaks COVID-19 into the general population, the CCP knows about it and decides to tell the world that it occurred naturally. and the location they choose is right next to that very lab...because they're bad liars? fantastic theory

p.s.: those secretive chinese commies sure are providing a lot of infection data to us!

Said dice sincerely, without irony. Sometimes they fool people, don't sweat it, dice.

i've also said that they're almost certainly under-reporting. so i haven't been fooled about jack-****. funny how you didn't quote that part. because you're intellectually dishonest. so your little "gotcha" quote just blew up in your face

Whatever, dice. You have 35,000 posts and half of them are you obnoxiously trying to antagonize, demean and humiliate anyone who disagrees with you. You're a bully and a jerk. You mocked me and compared me to the mentally ill for sharing my opinion the first time around. Not interested in wasting any more time and life arguing with you, your mind is closed for business. You're toxic. Best wishes.

[bulls_troy]

South Australia has now had 7 straight days without any new cases, and our active cases is approaching single digits.

[dice]

there is NO LINK TO COVID-19 in that! it is not even hinted that COVID-19 was the result of lab work. how are you not understanding this?

additionally, national review is a conservative publication. their instinct to shift blame to china despite trump's woeful mismanagement of this crisis is natural

finally, the US MILITARY is saying that the origins were natural despite suggestions coming out of china that the US military was responsible! direct refutation of your article:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/covid-19-origin-lab-general-mark-milley

you still didn't answer the basic question! the "big coincidence" only exists because the chinese government didn't try to cover up the location of origin! WHY didn't they say that the virus originated further away from the lab? it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE that they wouldn't do that if there was a conspiracy involved

scientific consensus

How would they know what covid-19 was in 2018? How are you not able to see a coincidence here?

How would China change the place where the spread started? Ship the sick people to a different city?

Your source isn't 100% certain. And a wide variety of professionals have been wrong during this ordeal. How long were ventilators talked about and there ended up never being a shortage and now there is serious questions about if they are even very effective. Travel bans were called racist at first. Original death estimates of 2.2 million were way over.

there is NO LINK TO COVID-19 in that! it is not even hinted that COVID-19 was the result of lab work. how are you not understanding this?

additionally, national review is a conservative publication. their instinct to shift blame to china despite trump's woeful mismanagement of this crisis is natural

finally, the US MILITARY is saying that the origins were natural despite suggestions coming out of china that the US military was responsible! direct refutation of your article:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/covid-19-origin-lab-general-mark-milley

you still didn't answer the basic question! the "big coincidence" only exists because the chinese government didn't try to cover up the location of origin! WHY didn't they say that the virus originated further away from the lab? it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE that they wouldn't do that if there was a conspiracy involved

scientific consensus

How would they know what covid-19 was in 2018? How are you not able to see a coincidence here?

we've been over this already. EVERYBODY SEES THE COINCIDENCE. coincidence does not imply causation

How would China change the place where the spread started? Ship the sick people to a different city?

are you serious? they can quite easily say that a resident of wuhon transmitted it in nature somewhere else and brought it home. and they sure as hell could've picked a location further away from the lab. new york city is america's COVID-19 hot spot. that doesn't mean that the american origin of the virus is new york city, does it?

Your source isn't 100% certain.

of course not. nobody who isn't a scientist can be 100% certain. but...

the SCIENTISTS say there is 100% certainty that this did not originate in a lab. so until the consensus changes for some reason...

Travel bans were called racist at first.

what does that have to do with this conversation?

Original death estimates of 2.2 million were way over.

um, we shut down the damn economy to prevent those estimates from having any chance of becoming a reality

[dice]

Never said they created it, maybe it leaked accidentally. Unlike you, I'm open to all possibilities. Don't put words in my mouth.

excuse me? you just put words in MY mouth. i never claimed that you said they created it

meanwhile, you're putting out strawman arguments like "people who believe anything the CCP says...", as if there is anybody outside of china who isn't at minimum suspicious about anything they say

The answer to your question is simple, and it's the same answer to the other question you can't wrap your head around. Why would China report 80,000 cases, when the actual figure is estimated (by US and UK military officials) to be 15x to 50x that number?

Because the CCP really is that bad at lying.

that is a completely horrendous cop-out answer

so a chinese lab that has been criticized for their practices accidentally (?) leaks COVID-19 into the general population, the CCP knows about it and decides to tell the world that it occurred naturally. and the location they choose is right next to that very lab...because they're bad liars? fantastic theory

Said dice sincerely, without irony. Sometimes they fool people, don't sweat it, dice.

i've also said that they're almost certainly under-reporting. so i haven't been fooled about jack-****. funny how you didn't quote that part. because you're intellectually dishonest. so your little "gotcha" quote just blew up in your face

Whatever, dice. You have 35,000 posts and half of them are you obnoxiously trying to antagonize, demean and humiliate anyone who disagrees with you. You're a bully and a jerk. You mocked me and compared me to the mentally ill for sharing my opinion the first time around. Not interested in wasting any more time and life arguing with you, your mind is closed for business. You're toxic. Best wishes.

now you're down to just trolling. you made this conversation personal with your snide remarks. and falsely accused me of putting words in your mouth. and quoted me out of context in an effort to say that the chinese government had fooled me. while propagating conspiracy theories during a pandemic. good riddance

and it's the people who mindlessly parrot non-sensical conspiracy theories whose "minds are closed for business"

you've posted a couple hundred times and you claim to have read through all of my 35,000 posts over the course of nearly 2 decades? GTFO

i apologize for my low tolerance for blatant (and in this case, potentially dangerous) illogic

[musiqsoulchild]

China is currently pinpointing the US military as the origin of the virus, in their propaganda. So what, even China doesn't believe its original virus origin story? People who believe anything the CCP says, they're the ones with the plausibility problem.

you avoided the question: why would china TELL THE TRUTH about the origin being in wuhan if they were creating the virus in a wuhan lab? it simply makes no sense to invite the scrutiny

Never said they created it, maybe it leaked accidentally. Unlike you, I'm open to all possibilities. Don't put words in my mouth.

The answer to your question is simple, and it's the same answer to the other question you can't wrap your head around. Why would China report 80,000 cases, when the actual figure is estimated (by US and UK military officials) to be 15x to 50x that number?

Because the CCP really is that bad at lying.

And they think the rest of the world is so dumb that we'll all believe them without question, or that we'll play by the rules inside China, where the CCP decides the truth and anyone who challenges it goes missing. The CCP isn't used to dealing with scrutiny, they execute scrutiny.

p.s.: those secretive chinese commies sure are providing a lot of infection data to us!

Said dice sincerely, without irony. Sometimes they fool people, don't sweat it, dice.

You shouldnt be open to all possibilities especially when dealing with Science.

Triage begins with quickly ruling out unnecessary crap like disinfectants and UV lights.

[dice]

you avoided the question: why would china TELL THE TRUTH about the origin being in wuhan if they were creating the virus in a wuhan lab? it simply makes no sense to invite the scrutiny

Never said they created it, maybe it leaked accidentally. Unlike you, I'm open to all possibilities. Don't put words in my mouth.

The answer to your question is simple, and it's the same answer to the other question you can't wrap your head around. Why would China report 80,000 cases, when the actual figure is estimated (by US and UK military officials) to be 15x to 50x that number?

Because the CCP really is that bad at lying.

And they think the rest of the world is so dumb that we'll all believe them without question, or that we'll play by the rules inside China, where the CCP decides the truth and anyone who challenges it goes missing. The CCP isn't used to dealing with scrutiny, they execute scrutiny.

p.s.: those secretive chinese commies sure are providing a lot of infection data to us!

Said dice sincerely, without irony. Sometimes they fool people, don't sweat it, dice.

You shouldnt be open to all possibilities especially when dealing with Science.

Triage begins with quickly ruling out unnecessary crap like disinfectants and UV lights.

in essence he's saying that we, as ordinary conscientious citizens, should be wary of the explanations of those in power and in the media, and be open to alternative explanations. which is healthy and responsible. but defending a conspiracy theory by papering over the gaping holes in that theory is not being open-minded

[Dresden]

South Australia has now had 7 straight days without any new cases, and our active cases is approaching single digits.

That's awesome. Better not say that too loudly though, or you'll have a bunch of rich Americans headed there to escape the virus.

[Habs72]

I hope you're both ok. If you dad starts having trouble breathing, he ought to go to the hospital, or at least call his doctor.

Yeah I’ve told my mom to keep an eye on him and if it gets worse, contact the hospital. It’s a tough situation because id prefer she wasn’t around it, but odds are if he is positive, then i am, and she already is too.

Update: just got a call from my parents. They’ve been told my fathers test came back positive. So, at this point it’s pretty obvious what I’ll be told on my call. My mom needs tested tomorrow, though that also seems more of doing tests just to verify the obvious.

Good times.

All the best for quick and healthy recovery for you!

[Habs72]

Well, US deaths passed 60K today.

Naah, that can be true. Trump just said about 2 weeks ago that US would get total of 55k-60k casualties from the virus .

[Habs72]

Do you not find the article and my comments original post to be very coincidental? If so all of this has been known for months and msm is only starting to talk about it this week. It was highly censored on social media.

why was it "censored" then but not now? and by whom? the illuminati? there is no fundamental substance to your allegations

the mainstream media would have loved, loved, LOVED a story about trump's NIH funding the creation of coronavirus in a chinese lab and mistakenly letting it infect people in the general population. because the mainstream media is concerned with one thing above all else: eyeballs ($$$). they have no incentive to clam up and suppress bombshell reporting on the orders of some unnamed shadow overlord

I don't know why. But if you don't think government and corporations have sway in the mainstream media we should do business.

1. There are 20,000 wet markets in China.
2. There is one level 4 Biolab in all of China.
3. The wet market n question is less than 300 yards away from the Wuhan lab.
4. Transmission of the corona virus was being studied at the Wuhan lab.
5. U.S. officials warned in January 2018 that the Wuhan Institute of Virology’s work on “SARS-like coronaviruses in bats,”

Nice list. You forgot to mention that your government funded corona study in that Wuhan lab. So i blame you as well if were going into conspiracy theories.

[dice]

why was it "censored" then but not now? and by whom? the illuminati? there is no fundamental substance to your allegations

the mainstream media would have loved, loved, LOVED a story about trump's NIH funding the creation of coronavirus in a chinese lab and mistakenly letting it infect people in the general population. because the mainstream media is concerned with one thing above all else: eyeballs ($$$). they have no incentive to clam up and suppress bombshell reporting on the orders of some unnamed shadow overlord

I don't know why. But if you don't think government and corporations have sway in the mainstream media we should do business.

1. There are 20,000 wet markets in China.
2. There is one level 4 Biolab in all of China.
3. The wet market n question is less than 300 yards away from the Wuhan lab.
4. Transmission of the corona virus was being studied at the Wuhan lab.
5. U.S. officials warned in January 2018 that the Wuhan Institute of Virology’s work on “SARS-like coronaviruses in bats,”

Nice list. You forgot to mention that your government funded corona study in that Wuhan lab. So i blame you as well if were going into conspiracy theories.

i don't think he's coming from the perspective of american nationalism so much as distrust of the media and the CCP. i know that russia is big into stoking these conspiracy theories, and the poster's name is nikola, but that's probably just coincidence

[Dresden]

The NYT has an article today about how higher up members of the Trump admin, including Mike Pompeo,have been pushing members of the intel agencies to try to find evidence pinning the origins of the virus to the Wuhan Lab, presumably to make China look bad, and also with an eye towards possibly demanding reparations from China in the future.

One of the links in the article does cast doubt on the theory that the origin of the virus was in the wet market, but also states that it is very unlikely to have originated in a lab either (or escaped from a lab), and that right now the most likely origin explanation is that the virus made the jump from animal to humans prior to the Wuhan market being infected, and that the market just amplified the infection:

"The origin of the SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 pandemic is still not publicly known. It was initially proposed that the virus spilled over to humans from an animal in December 2019 in the Huanan seafood market in Wuhan, then explosively spread outwards. Subsequent data, however, supports an alternative hypothesis that the original human infections began before December, and not in this seafood market.

We interpret these data to be most consistent with a naturally-occurring spillover infection from an animal species to humans at a different location in September-November. Once human-to-human transmission occurred, then infected persons brought the virus into the seafood market where other persons were then infected and brought it out of the market.

Due to the initial definition of a “probable case” of this new viral pneumonia in late December that focused explicitly on an epidemiological link to the seafood market, the presumably zoonotic novel coronavirus was thought to have originated there.

We have not found evidence to support any theory that the origins of SARS-CoV-2 among humans occurred in a laboratory either intentionally or by accident. The closest, but still distant, match to the SARS-CoV-2 is a bat coronavirus. The crucial part of this bat virus that binds to the human receptor used by SARS-CoV-2, however, is notably different than that same part of the human SARS-CoV-2.

Although virus-positive environmental specimens were found in the market after sampling on Jan. 1 when the market was closed, no infected animal has ever been reported. These infected samples, including those from sewage, may have come from infected persons in the market. According to the China CDC on Jan. 21: “Despite extensive searching, no animal from the market has thus far been identified as a possible source of the infection” (Ref 1)."

https://sciencespeaksblog.org/2020/04/27/with-evidence-against-the-origin-of-covid-19-being-the-seafood-market-in-december-a-call-to-share-and-discuss-all-data-at-the-73rd-world-health-assembly-in-may/

[Dresden]

The administration's directives to our intel agencies to pursue the escaped from a lab in Wuhan hypothesis echoes back strongly to 2001, when George Bush's administration sought evidence linking Saddam to 911, and later, to link Saddam's regime to the pursuit of WMD's. Thus, we were given the bogus "intel" reports that Saddam was trying to buy yellow cake from Nigeria, that he was importing centrifuges for refining nuclear material, that he was operating a bio weapons lab, that he was testing missiles capable of delivering a nuclear warhead long range, and on and on. Very dangerous things happen when a president directs the intelligence community to try to find evidence to support a conclusion.

[wolffy]

Everyone is talking about this like its past tense and i don't really see why. Is it that we are all more comfortable with the idea of everyone getting it and it being more akin to the flu? Or is it more that we feel safer cuz the new cases are dropping?

Once we open everything lots of people, probably most, will be infected. I just dont see how they aren't. Maybe everyone has just come to terms with that.

[dice]

The administration's directives to our intel agencies to pursue the escaped from a lab in Wuhan hypothesis echoes back strongly to 2001, when George Bush's administration sought evidence linking Saddam to 911, and later, to link Saddam's regime to the pursuit of WMD's. Thus, we were given the bogus "intel" reports that Saddam was trying to buy yellow cake from Nigeria, that he was importing centrifuges for refining nuclear material, that he was operating a bio weapons lab, that he was testing missiles capable of delivering a nuclear warhead long range, and on and on. Very dangerous things happen when a president directs the intelligence community to try to find evidence to support a conclusion.

not coincidentally, both involved presidents who lack intellectual curiosity and are/were reduced to serving as figureheads for a movement

[dice]

cleveland nursing home resident exhibits symptoms and tests positive, so entire home gets tests, turns out that majority of residents are infected:

https://www.cleveland.com/coronavirus/2020/04/what-happens-when-an-entire-nursing-home-is-tested-for-cornavirus-more-than-half-the-patients-positive-at-one-facility-in-tallmadge.html

no excuse for not pro-actively testing nursing homes across the board

[coldfish]

cleveland nursing home resident exhibits symptoms and tests positive, so entire home gets tests, turns out that majority of residents are infected:

https://www.cleveland.com/coronavirus/2020/04/what-happens-when-an-entire-nursing-home-is-tested-for-cornavirus-more-than-half-the-patients-positive-at-one-facility-in-tallmadge.html

no excuse for not pro-actively testing nursing homes across the board

https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboards/long-term-care-facilities/cases

Ohio kind of sucks by the way. The state is 4th from last in tests per pop. Not sure what the bottleneck is but they really haven't tested much at all. Read that 1/3 of all ohio deaths were in nursing homes. I wouldn't be surprised if testing every person in every nursing home would be more tests than they have done in total.

[MrSparkle]

Everyone is talking about this like its past tense and i don't really see why. Is it that we are all more comfortable with the idea of everyone getting it and it being more akin to the flu? Or is it more that we feel safer cuz the new cases are dropping?

Once we open everything lots of people, probably most, will be infected. I just dont see how they aren't. Maybe everyone has just come to terms with that.

Yeah.

I personally think this will go down in the ranks as the most mis-managed crisis on home soil ever.

Americans are unfortunately pretty kind and forgiving to past admin's tragic mistakes, dare I say crimes against humanity (Iraq, 06-08 recession, CIA Death Squads, Vietnam, Black Listing, etc.).

This is different. In some ways. It's less barbaric. But in the grand scheme, it's not. Not having efficient, scientific and intelligent centralized federal health care, wages and direction during this double-whammy economic plus contagion emergency, it's inexcusable. Almost at 60,000 deaths after 40 days of lockdown, with almost 900,000 active cases, and we have a very loud movement to open up and exponentially increase that death toll (which already has exceed the Vietnam War).

60K with a lockdown. Just do the math. This has every potential to drive up and exceed America's 600K Spanish Flu death toll, especially if airports, hotels, buses and gyms completely open up.