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Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released)

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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#801 » by God Squad » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:14 am

Psubs wrote:
Syd-TK3 wrote:
BoyzNTheHood wrote:
There's no such thing as a bust at pick #28 so I wouldn't mind. I have faith that even if Masai reached at 28 he'd probably be able to get a useful player at 58 or even undrafted.

More than likely we are gonna resign Fred and have him take over for Lowry. So even though there may be point guards who I like better in this draft I think if we do draft one getting a taller more versatile one with a different playstyle that would allow him to play with fred is important.
Mane would definitely allow that.

If masai were to take him I'd trust in his decision


I think we have a Sith situation at PG. Lowry - FVV - TD - 19/20 year old

Rule of two?
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#802 » by Sir-Swish-A-Lot » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:41 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:
Sir-Swish-A-Lot wrote:Isaiah is smart enough, talent enough to adapt his game to fit his strengths at the NBA level. Plus he is a gym rat that will only improve being able to focus on basketball 100% of the time with no classes to worry about. He is far from a finished product at 18 years of age. In 2-3 seasons he will be much improved as he will be in 3-5 seasons barring injuries.

You can say this about almost any player, every player who is drafted will improve some more than other sure. But given the unexpected nature of this stuff it really doesn't mean anything.

Stewart can pass the ball but at the UW that wasn't what was asked of him to do they wanted him to shoot the ball when he got it in the post. Their entire game plan revolved around getting Stewart the ball in the post. And when he got it they wanted him to shoot it. And if you watch this video you will see examples of him dunking on some people in the paint and will notice that he has an excellent soft touch on the basketball while finishing with his right or left hand in the paint


He didn't dunk on anybody in that video (even missed a dunk due to his low vert at 1:15) I do agree he's got great touch since most of his offense comes off those tough hooks. But if that's his primary value I don't think it's worth it. Stewart showed bad vision in college. Would fail to pass out of contested paint pretty often. USC game is a good indicator of this
for example Image There are zero teams ever that don't want a pass out of a double or in this situation Image

Who ever the Raptors draft at #28 is going to be a backup regardless of their position. If Stewart is there at #28 the Raptors will have lucked out to be in a position to add him to their roster depth chart. The Raptors have often had issues with rebounding the basketball on both ends of the court and Stewart would go a long ways in solving those issues. Plus, he has the body to be a top level screen setter freeing up players like FVV on the perimeter and rolling hard to the hoop in the P'R game


Considering the Raptors drafted an All Nba player at #27 just a couple years ago, I do not share your pessimism the guy we draft being necessarily only a backup. My point about positional value still stands, why would I draft Stewart at 28 for screen setting, rebounding and being a roller when I can draft someone like Azubuike or Nic Richards at 58? Or just simply sign Javale Mcgee for the minimum?

IMO the draft should be used to acquire high-value players you can't get easily elsewhere. Not replaceable guys like Backup bigs (the most replaceable position in the league)

Nope, you can't say that about almost any player. Some players never figure it out. There is a long list of those type of players that had the talent but could get in where they fit in.

He dunked on, over a Baylor player at the 22 second mark of the video and had a few more dunks in the paint against opponents...did you really watch the full video?

The USC game is a game that the UW won by 32 points. Stewart had 18 pts, 10 rebs, 2 blks in 27 minutes in that game. To top it off Stewart was fouled on that clip that you posted up against USC. Plus, if you noticed Stewart has hands of steel once he gets a hold of the ball he keeps it in his possession as well as he's good at snatching passes out of the air while heavily guarded. Throw it up to him and he's like a tight end catching a pass he goes and gets the ball.

I watched every game that Stewart played this past season in full so a clip or photo of a possession or two is meaningless to me when taken into context in relation to his entire body of work this season which ended with 29 pts, 12 rebs against Arizona in the Pac-12 tournament.

Stewart was so powerful that a Pac-12 ref told him at halftime of their Oregon game that he couldn't use his natural strength to ward off defenders as per Stewart in a post game presser. Stewart could just toss opponents off of him he's so strong so Pac-12 refs seemingly decided to let opponents hack him to death but that still couldn't stop him from doing damage in the paint.

Was Pascal a starter his first season in Toronto? His second season in Toronto? How can you say that Stewart won't develop into a starter over time? He is only 19 years old (just turned 19 on May 22) and is only going to get better as he matures. Pascal was 22 years old when he was drafted. Let's see what Stewart looks like in 3 years at the age of 22.

C'mon man, JaVale McGee isn't signing with Toronto. I can't even take your post seriously...step your game up, buddy. Try again.


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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#803 » by Mark_83 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:11 am

Someone posted a player comparison tool on the main board. It's pretty cool even if you quibble about the accuracy.

https://nbadraftcomp.herokuapp.com/stats/
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#804 » by UcanUwill » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:27 am

Psubs wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Latvian Navarro



Do you mean La Bomba? He was an combo-guard who couldn't make it here.


La Bomba could easily make it in the NBA, he only came to NBA so he could play with his childhood friend Pau, and they traded Pau to the Lakers the very same season, so La Bomba just came back to Barcelona. His rookie season was pretty good, no worse than Manus rookie season for comparison. He could have been one of the best 6st mans in the league, very similar player to Jason Terry or CJ Mccollum.

And thats what I think Zagars can be, he looks like next coming of Navarro, JET or CJ. Kid can play the offensive game. If you get next Navarro with such a late pick, trust me, thats a huge steal.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#805 » by Psubs » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:51 pm

God Squad wrote:
Psubs wrote:
Syd-TK3 wrote:More than likely we are gonna resign Fred and have him take over for Lowry. So even though there may be point guards who I like better in this draft I think if we do draft one getting a taller more versatile one with a different playstyle that would allow him to play with fred is important.
Mane would definitely allow that.

If masai were to take him I'd trust in his decision


I think we have a Sith situation at PG. Lowry - FVV - TD - 19/20 year old

Rule of two?


:nod: :starwars
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#806 » by rapsdotcom » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:30 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
Psubs wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Latvian Navarro



Do you mean La Bomba? He was an combo-guard who couldn't make it here.


La Bomba could easily make it in the NBA, he only came to NBA so he could play with his childhood friend Pau, and they traded Pau to the Lakers the very same season, so La Bomba just came back to Barcelona. His rookie season was pretty good, no worse than Manus rookie season for comparison. He could have been one of the best 6st mans in the league, very similar player to Jason Terry or CJ Mccollum.

And thats what I think Zagars can be, he looks like next coming of Navarro, JET or CJ. Kid can play the offensive game. If you get next Navarro with such a late pick, trust me, thats a huge steal.


Zagars decided not to declare for the 2020 draft.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#807 » by Kevin Willis » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:56 pm

Psubs wrote:
God Squad wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
I've always thought that Ibaka would be a tremendous mentor for Oturu. Similar skillset & attitude.

Oturu/Jalen Smith/Reed - all are on the board who do you draft? Whos potential seems higher? Who's likely to reach their ceiling? Oturu is the player I'm least educated on. But they all seem to have similar skillsets and all should be able to stretch the floor.


Oturu is a hometown kid that went to Minnesota. He should be okay with playing in Toronto and may not bolt a la Kawhi.

Oturu (7'3" wingspan) could be Elton Brand with 3-pt range. He's the beefiest of the 3 and can definitely play C.

Jalen Smith (7"1.5 wingspan) could be Kevin Willis with 3-pt range. Smith has 1 less turnover per game than Oturu.

Reed is likely only a PF with backup C minutes. With Siakam, Oturu or Smith would probably be the better choice.

Most mocks have Oturu in the lottery (since he put up 20/10) so Smith is the more realistic target.

Raptors have Dewan Hernandez and Sabaga Konate as potential C's coming up through the G-League, so have flexibility to take Reed.

:D


Kevin Willis with 3-pt range sounds like a perennial all-star. For some reason I find that comparison intriguing.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#808 » by UcanUwill » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:59 pm

rapsdotcom wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
Psubs wrote:
Do you mean La Bomba? He was an combo-guard who couldn't make it here.


La Bomba could easily make it in the NBA, he only came to NBA so he could play with his childhood friend Pau, and they traded Pau to the Lakers the very same season, so La Bomba just came back to Barcelona. His rookie season was pretty good, no worse than Manus rookie season for comparison. He could have been one of the best 6st mans in the league, very similar player to Jason Terry or CJ Mccollum.

And thats what I think Zagars can be, he looks like next coming of Navarro, JET or CJ. Kid can play the offensive game. If you get next Navarro with such a late pick, trust me, thats a huge steal.


Zagars decided not to declare for the 2020 draft.


Never mind then.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#809 » by Psubs » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:14 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:
Psubs wrote:
God Squad wrote:Oturu/Jalen Smith/Reed - all are on the board who do you draft? Whos potential seems higher? Who's likely to reach their ceiling? Oturu is the player I'm least educated on. But they all seem to have similar skillsets and all should be able to stretch the floor.


Oturu is a hometown kid that went to Minnesota. He should be okay with playing in Toronto and may not bolt a la Kawhi.

Oturu (7'3" wingspan) could be Elton Brand with 3-pt range. He's the beefiest of the 3 and can definitely play C.

Jalen Smith (7"1.5 wingspan) could be Kevin Willis with 3-pt range. Smith has 1 less turnover per game than Oturu.

Reed is likely only a PF with backup C minutes. With Siakam, Oturu or Smith would probably be the better choice.

Most mocks have Oturu in the lottery (since he put up 20/10) so Smith is the more realistic target.

Raptors have Dewan Hernandez and Sabaga Konate as potential C's coming up through the G-League, so have flexibility to take Reed.

:D


Kevin Willis with 3-pt range sounds like a perennial all-star. For some reason I find that comparison intriguing.


You're more obviously Kevin Willis than Sir-Swish is CJ Elleby! :lol:
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#810 » by Kevin Willis » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:51 pm

Psubs wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
Psubs wrote:
Oturu is a hometown kid that went to Minnesota. He should be okay with playing in Toronto and may not bolt a la Kawhi.

Oturu (7'3" wingspan) could be Elton Brand with 3-pt range. He's the beefiest of the 3 and can definitely play C.

Jalen Smith (7"1.5 wingspan) could be Kevin Willis with 3-pt range. Smith has 1 less turnover per game than Oturu.

Reed is likely only a PF with backup C minutes. With Siakam, Oturu or Smith would probably be the better choice.

Most mocks have Oturu in the lottery (since he put up 20/10) so Smith is the more realistic target.

Raptors have Dewan Hernandez and Sabaga Konate as potential C's coming up through the G-League, so have flexibility to take Reed.

:D


Kevin Willis with 3-pt range sounds like a perennial all-star. For some reason I find that comparison intriguing.


You're more obviously Kevin Willis than Sir-Swish is CJ Elleby! :lol:


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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#811 » by Indeed » Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:31 pm

Sir-Swish-A-Lot wrote:
Psubs wrote:
Sir-Swish-A-Lot wrote:CJ Elleby (Washington State)...



Do you or have you ever lived in the state of Washington?

Matter of fact I played HS basket at the same HS that Masai Ujiri went to (Nathan Hale HS) under the same coach- John Burnley Jr. I knew Masai before he was the Masai of today...


Elleby does not have elite wingspan at 6'7, and he is unlikely being a good defender like Davis who has every measurement better than Elleby except for height and share the same standing reach (eg. bigger hand size, quicker laterally, longer, etc.).

If we are drafting him to play behind Davis, then I can understand.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#812 » by Indeed » Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:59 pm

Sir-Swish-A-Lot wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
Sir-Swish-A-Lot wrote:Isaiah is smart enough, talent enough to adapt his game to fit his strengths at the NBA level. Plus he is a gym rat that will only improve being able to focus on basketball 100% of the time with no classes to worry about. He is far from a finished product at 18 years of age. In 2-3 seasons he will be much improved as he will be in 3-5 seasons barring injuries.

You can say this about almost any player, every player who is drafted will improve some more than other sure. But given the unexpected nature of this stuff it really doesn't mean anything.

Stewart can pass the ball but at the UW that wasn't what was asked of him to do they wanted him to shoot the ball when he got it in the post. Their entire game plan revolved around getting Stewart the ball in the post. And when he got it they wanted him to shoot it. And if you watch this video you will see examples of him dunking on some people in the paint and will notice that he has an excellent soft touch on the basketball while finishing with his right or left hand in the paint


He didn't dunk on anybody in that video (even missed a dunk due to his low vert at 1:15) I do agree he's got great touch since most of his offense comes off those tough hooks. But if that's his primary value I don't think it's worth it. Stewart showed bad vision in college. Would fail to pass out of contested paint pretty often. USC game is a good indicator of this
for example Image There are zero teams ever that don't want a pass out of a double or in this situation Image

Who ever the Raptors draft at #28 is going to be a backup regardless of their position. If Stewart is there at #28 the Raptors will have lucked out to be in a position to add him to their roster depth chart. The Raptors have often had issues with rebounding the basketball on both ends of the court and Stewart would go a long ways in solving those issues. Plus, he has the body to be a top level screen setter freeing up players like FVV on the perimeter and rolling hard to the hoop in the P'R game


Considering the Raptors drafted an All Nba player at #27 just a couple years ago, I do not share your pessimism the guy we draft being necessarily only a backup. My point about positional value still stands, why would I draft Stewart at 28 for screen setting, rebounding and being a roller when I can draft someone like Azubuike or Nic Richards at 58? Or just simply sign Javale Mcgee for the minimum?

IMO the draft should be used to acquire high-value players you can't get easily elsewhere. Not replaceable guys like Backup bigs (the most replaceable position in the league)

Nope, you can't say that about almost any player. Some players never figure it out. There is a long list of those type of players that had the talent but could get in where they fit in.

He dunked on, over a Baylor player at the 22 second mark of the video and had a few more dunks in the paint against opponents...did you really watch the full video?

The USC game is a game that the UW won by 32 points. Stewart had 18 pts, 10 rebs, 2 blks in 27 minutes in that game. To top it off Stewart was fouled on that clip that you posted up against USC. Plus, if you noticed Stewart has hands of steel once he gets a hold of the ball he keeps it in his possession as well as he's good at snatching passes out of the air while heavily guarded. Throw it up to him and he's like a tight end catching a pass he goes and gets the ball.

I watched every game that Stewart played this past season in full so a clip or photo of a possession or two is meaningless to me when taken into context in relation to his entire body of work this season which ended with 29 pts, 12 rebs against Arizona in the Pac-12 tournament.

Stewart was so powerful that a Pac-12 ref told him at halftime of their Oregon game that he couldn't use his natural strength to ward off defenders as per Stewart in a post game presser. Stewart could just toss opponents off of him he's so strong so Pac-12 refs seemingly decided to let opponents hack him to death but that still couldn't stop him from doing damage in the paint.

Was Pascal a starter his first season in Toronto? His second season in Toronto? How can you say that Stewart won't develop into a starter over time? He is only 19 years old (just turned 19 on May 22) and is only going to get better as he matures. Pascal was 22 years old when he was drafted. Let's see what Stewart looks like in 3 years at the age of 22.

C'mon man, JaVale McGee isn't signing with Toronto. I can't even take your post seriously...step your game up, buddy. Try again.



He is powerful in college, and the question is, would that translate into the NBA when others are as powerful as he is, particularly he plays below the rim.
Meanwhile, his concern could be on the defensive end, and the capability of switching, where some scouts suggested he may not able to guard on the perimeter.

These will be the reason for him being a low first or second round pick, and may not be comparable to Siakam if he plays below the rim.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#813 » by HeadtopChunes » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:32 pm

He dunked on, over a Baylor player at the 22 second mark of the video and had a few more dunks in the paint against opponents...did you really watch the full video?


Image
This is not dunking on someone, this is dunking past someone.

Sir-Swish-A-Lot wrote:Nope, you can't say that about almost any player. Some players never figure it out. There is a long list of those type of players that had the talent but could get in where they fit in
The USC game is a game that the UW won by 32 points. Stewart had 18 pts, 10 rebs, 2 blks in 27 minutes in that game. To top it off Stewart was fouled on that clip that you posted up against USC. Plus, if you noticed Stewart has hands of steel once he gets a hold of the ball he keeps it in his possession as well as he's good at snatching passes out of the air while heavily guarded. Throw it up to him and he's like a tight end catching a pass he goes and gets the ball.
I watched every game that Stewart played this past season in full so a clip or photo of a possession or two is meaningless to me when taken into context in relation to his entire body of work this season which ended with 29 pts, 12 rebs against Arizona in the Pac-12 tournament.
Stewart was so powerful that a Pac-12 ref told him at halftime of their Oregon game that he couldn't use his natural strength to ward off defenders as per Stewart in a post game presser. Stewart could just toss opponents off of him he's so strong so Pac-12 refs seemingly decided to let opponents hack him to death but that still couldn't stop him from doing damage in the paint.


Your entire argument boils down to Isaiah Stewart was a good college player, which is obvious. Nobody said he didn't put up stats or that he wasn't strong repeating this over and over like it means anything is not accomplishing anything.

It's great that you "watched every game he played", but this is also something that can be accomplished by a child, it doesn't make their analysis any more meaningful. The entire body of work shows that Stewart was not a post playmaker in college, evidenced by his low Creation numbers and high AST/TO numbers with a couple of possessions I picked out as examples from the games that I have seen. Thus I believe he is a poor playmaker your personal opinion on that doesn't change anything.

Was Pascal a starter his first season in Toronto? His second season in Toronto? How can you say that Stewart won't develop into a starter over time? He is only 19 years old (just turned 19 on May 22) and is only going to get better as he matures. Pascal was 22 years old when he was drafted. Let's see what Stewart looks like in 3 years at the age of 22.


Yes, I am saying that Stewart is likely not going to be a starting level center on a good team, why? Because this is a draft thread and the draft is about projections, given what we have seen from Stewart I don't see him as a future starter. That's my projection. Feel Free to disagree.

C'mon man, JaVale McGee isn't signing with Toronto. I can't even take your post seriously...step your game up, buddy. Try again.

It's not about specifically Javale, it's about how there are really good centers every free agency that can be had for the min or close to it. There's no point in investing picks into a role you can get a better player at for less cost

and please do not try to belittle me, your posts have been nothing but biased takes and platitudes. I have yet to a see a quality argument from you that doesn't come down to " he will be good I promise"
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#814 » by Dalek » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:01 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:It's not about specifically Javale, it's about how there are really good centers every free agency that can be had for the min or close to it. There's no point in investing picks into a role you can get a better player at for less cost...


Sorry to jump into the heated discussion, but HTC has a good point about bigs in general. There are guys who sit in the G-League who can be signed on 10 days, or unsigned guys that can be had at the end of free agency that can fill a traditional big man role.

Drafting a big is almost always a long-term acquisition. Unless you draft a freak athlete or has unique basketball IQ and skills, you are likely getting a 2-3 year project. This means you may get a year of good production on the back-end of your rotation and then they hit free agency. So, you do all the developing and someone else gets the benefit (see Bruno).

This draft has to be one of the least exciting for the depth of prospects. There seems like there are a lot of guys with average size for their position, weak athleticism, or are just raw. A lot of these guys didn't even have great stats coming into the draft which is bad considering this is considered a down class overall.

Unless they can prove they can guard pick and roll, or can switch on defense, not sure why Toronto would be interested in a big.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#815 » by HeadtopChunes » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:24 pm

Dalek wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:It's not about specifically Javale, it's about how there are really good centers every free agency that can be had for the min or close to it. There's no point in investing picks into a role you can get a better player at for less cost...


Sorry to jump into the heated discussion, but HTC has a good point about bigs in general. There are guys who sit in the G-League who can be signed on 10 days, or unsigned guys that can be had at the end of free agency that can fill a traditional big man role.

Drafting a big is almost always a long-term acquisition. Unless you draft a freak athlete or has unique basketball IQ and skills, you are likely getting a 2-3 year project. This means you may get a year of good production on the back-end of your rotation and then they hit free agency. So, you do all the developing and someone else gets the benefit (see Bruno).

This draft has to be one of the least exciting for the depth of prospects. There seems like there are a lot of guys with average size for their position, weak athleticism, or are just raw. A lot of these guys didn't even have great stats coming into the draft which is bad considering this is considered a down class overall.

Unless they can prove they can guard pick and roll, or can switch on defense, not sure why Toronto would be interested in a big.


Yep just look at this upcoming Free Agent class, nobody has any money but look at all the centers.

Marc/Serge, Noel, Poeltl, Dwight, Javale, Cousins, Whiteside, Tristain Thompson, Baynes, Len, Meyer Leonard, WCS ,etc

How many of these guys will be starters the following season? Maybe 3? The rest are backups and there's not much money to go around. This is the replacement level for backup big.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#816 » by Dalek » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:51 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:
Dalek wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:It's not about specifically Javale, it's about how there are really good centers every free agency that can be had for the min or close to it. There's no point in investing picks into a role you can get a better player at for less cost...


Sorry to jump into the heated discussion, but HTC has a good point about bigs in general. There are guys who sit in the G-League who can be signed on 10 days, or unsigned guys that can be had at the end of free agency that can fill a traditional big man role.

Drafting a big is almost always a long-term acquisition. Unless you draft a freak athlete or has unique basketball IQ and skills, you are likely getting a 2-3 year project. This means you may get a year of good production on the back-end of your rotation and then they hit free agency. So, you do all the developing and someone else gets the benefit (see Bruno).

This draft has to be one of the least exciting for the depth of prospects. There seems like there are a lot of guys with average size for their position, weak athleticism, or are just raw. A lot of these guys didn't even have great stats coming into the draft which is bad considering this is considered a down class overall.

Unless they can prove they can guard pick and roll, or can switch on defense, not sure why Toronto would be interested in a big.


Yep just look at this upcoming Free Agent class, nobody has any money but look at all the centers.

Marc/Serge, Noel, Poeltl, Dwight, Javale, Cousins, Whiteside, Tristain Thompson, Baynes, Len, Meyer Leonard, WCS ,etc

How many of these guys will be starters the following season? Maybe 3? The rest are backups and there's not much money to go around. This is the replacement level for backup big.


I know this is a draft thread but damn, you know my pick is Jakob Poeltl. You obviously re-sign Serge and Marc on hefty short-term deals to match up with Lowry, but Poeltl as the back-up big would be great.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#817 » by Tofubeque » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:10 pm

Dalek wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
Dalek wrote:
Sorry to jump into the heated discussion, but HTC has a good point about bigs in general. There are guys who sit in the G-League who can be signed on 10 days, or unsigned guys that can be had at the end of free agency that can fill a traditional big man role.

Drafting a big is almost always a long-term acquisition. Unless you draft a freak athlete or has unique basketball IQ and skills, you are likely getting a 2-3 year project. This means you may get a year of good production on the back-end of your rotation and then they hit free agency. So, you do all the developing and someone else gets the benefit (see Bruno).

This draft has to be one of the least exciting for the depth of prospects. There seems like there are a lot of guys with average size for their position, weak athleticism, or are just raw. A lot of these guys didn't even have great stats coming into the draft which is bad considering this is considered a down class overall.

Unless they can prove they can guard pick and roll, or can switch on defense, not sure why Toronto would be interested in a big.


Yep just look at this upcoming Free Agent class, nobody has any money but look at all the centers.

Marc/Serge, Noel, Poeltl, Dwight, Javale, Cousins, Whiteside, Tristain Thompson, Baynes, Len, Meyer Leonard, WCS ,etc

How many of these guys will be starters the following season? Maybe 3? The rest are backups and there's not much money to go around. This is the replacement level for backup big.


I know this is a draft thread but damn, you know my pick is Jakob Poeltl. You obviously re-sign Serge and Marc on hefty short-term deals to match up with Lowry, but Poeltl as the back-up big would be great.


Imagine how bad the Kawhi trade would look in retrospect if all the Spurs got out of it was a few crappy years with DeRozan and the Raptors got a championship AND got Poeltl back anyway. :lol:

As for this discussion about Cs, the only "big" in our range I've kinda liked so far has been Yves Pons. More and more teams will have success playing guys like him at C soon enough.
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props Turbozone
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#818 » by Mark_83 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:55 pm

Dalek wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
Dalek wrote:
Sorry to jump into the heated discussion, but HTC has a good point about bigs in general. There are guys who sit in the G-League who can be signed on 10 days, or unsigned guys that can be had at the end of free agency that can fill a traditional big man role.

Drafting a big is almost always a long-term acquisition. Unless you draft a freak athlete or has unique basketball IQ and skills, you are likely getting a 2-3 year project. This means you may get a year of good production on the back-end of your rotation and then they hit free agency. So, you do all the developing and someone else gets the benefit (see Bruno).

This draft has to be one of the least exciting for the depth of prospects. There seems like there are a lot of guys with average size for their position, weak athleticism, or are just raw. A lot of these guys didn't even have great stats coming into the draft which is bad considering this is considered a down class overall.

Unless they can prove they can guard pick and roll, or can switch on defense, not sure why Toronto would be interested in a big.


Yep just look at this upcoming Free Agent class, nobody has any money but look at all the centers.

Marc/Serge, Noel, Poeltl, Dwight, Javale, Cousins, Whiteside, Tristain Thompson, Baynes, Len, Meyer Leonard, WCS ,etc

How many of these guys will be starters the following season? Maybe 3? The rest are backups and there's not much money to go around. This is the replacement level for backup big.


I know this is a draft thread but damn, you know my pick is Jakob Poeltl. You obviously re-sign Serge and Marc on hefty short-term deals to match up with Lowry, but Poeltl as the back-up big would be great.

Home him bring!

Him and Pascal together again would be dynamite.
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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#819 » by Sir-Swish-A-Lot » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:36 pm

He is powerful in college, and the question is, would that translate into the NBA when others are as powerful as he is, particularly he plays below the rim.
Meanwhile, his concern could be on the defensive end, and the capability of switching, where some scouts suggested he may not able to guard on the perimeter.

These will be the reason for him being a low first or second round pick, and may not be comparable to Siakam if he plays below the rim.

In the NBA how many powerful players are there? The NBA has become more of a finesse game than a power game. Just look how Chris Boucher is able to bang in the paint. I remember a similar player Brad Sellers (Bulls) getting run out of the NBA in the 1980s because he played a soft big man game on the perimeter. Stewart will hold up just fine against today's NBA bigs. And at only 19 years of age (just turned 19 on May 22) he is only going to get bigger and more powerful from NBA weightroom dedication as he matures.

He does need to prove that he can switch out on defenders because he wasn't asked to do that at the UW. But he has the athletic ability and work ethic needed to show and prove in that area as well.

He is not a second round draft pick in any reasonable GM/scouts mind. I have only seen 1 mock draft where he's in the 2nd round and that draft site is very questionable. He is a certified first round pick in every other mock draft I have seen going anywhere from 15th to 28th.

Pascal doesn't really play above the rim either. He gets a lot of his buckets on below the rim scoop shoots and jumpers. The only aspect I that compared him with Pascal in was in coming into the NBA as a starter. And that was a response to another poster's post. Pascal didn't come into the NBA as a starter and his career has been just fine as he has worked himself into a starter.

The very same premise I was trying to convey concerning Stewart about working his way into a potential starter while learning the NBA game. Pascal was 22 years old when drafted. Stewart will be 19 years old when drafted. Stewart is a gym rat and will improve all aspects of his game and physical stature through sheer hard work and dedication to his craft. I put no limits on his potential. Same with Pascal who has proven that hard work, dedication mixed with talent one can achieve what they believe. Peace

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Re: Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released) 

Post#820 » by Sir-Swish-A-Lot » Fri May 1, 2020 12:02 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:
He dunked on, over a Baylor player at the 22 second mark of the video and had a few more dunks in the paint against opponents...did you really watch the full video?


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This is not dunking on someone, this is dunking past someone.

Sir-Swish-A-Lot wrote:Nope, you can't say that about almost any player. Some players never figure it out. There is a long list of those type of players that had the talent but could get in where they fit in
The USC game is a game that the UW won by 32 points. Stewart had 18 pts, 10 rebs, 2 blks in 27 minutes in that game. To top it off Stewart was fouled on that clip that you posted up against USC. Plus, if you noticed Stewart has hands of steel once he gets a hold of the ball he keeps it in his possession as well as he's good at snatching passes out of the air while heavily guarded. Throw it up to him and he's like a tight end catching a pass he goes and gets the ball.
I watched every game that Stewart played this past season in full so a clip or photo of a possession or two is meaningless to me when taken into context in relation to his entire body of work this season which ended with 29 pts, 12 rebs against Arizona in the Pac-12 tournament.
Stewart was so powerful that a Pac-12 ref told him at halftime of their Oregon game that he couldn't use his natural strength to ward off defenders as per Stewart in a post game presser. Stewart could just toss opponents off of him he's so strong so Pac-12 refs seemingly decided to let opponents hack him to death but that still couldn't stop him from doing damage in the paint.


Your entire argument boils down to Isaiah Stewart was a good college player, which is obvious. Nobody said he didn't put up stats or that he wasn't strong repeating this over and over like it means anything is not accomplishing anything.

It's great that you "watched every game he played", but this is also something that can be accomplished by a child, it doesn't make their analysis any more meaningful. The entire body of work shows that Stewart was not a post playmaker in college, evidenced by his low Creation numbers and high AST/TO numbers with a couple of possessions I picked out as examples from the games that I have seen. Thus I believe he is a poor playmaker your personal opinion on that doesn't change anything.

Was Pascal a starter his first season in Toronto? His second season in Toronto? How can you say that Stewart won't develop into a starter over time? He is only 19 years old (just turned 19 on May 22) and is only going to get better as he matures. Pascal was 22 years old when he was drafted. Let's see what Stewart looks like in 3 years at the age of 22.


Yes, I am saying that Stewart is likely not going to be a starting level center on a good team, why? Because this is a draft thread and the draft is about projections, given what we have seen from Stewart I don't see him as a future starter. That's my projection. Feel Free to disagree.

C'mon man, JaVale McGee isn't signing with Toronto. I can't even take your post seriously...step your game up, buddy. Try again.

It's not about specifically Javale, it's about how there are really good centers every free agency that can be had for the min or close to it. There's no point in investing picks into a role you can get a better player at for less cost

and please do not try to belittle me, your posts have been nothing but biased takes and platitudes. I have yet to a see a quality argument from you that doesn't come down to " he will be good I promise"

Let you tell it, rewrite it and sell it. Stewart dunked on that Baylor player in real time- deal with it.

Stewart was a very good college player that has transferable skills (hustle, rebounding, heart, defense, willingness to improve-work) that will translate at the NBA level. Being a big man he doesn't have to stand out as a playmaker like a guard would. I already laid out what the coaches at the UW wanted from him. Isaiah will not be initiating the offense for any NBA team. And as quiet as it is kept he is a very capable passer which should prove out over time once he is in the NBA. And a child wouldn't be able to discern all the related factors that manifest into a NBA prospect so your sideways comment is that of a child like mindset.

You can say whatever you want to about any prospect doesn't make it true or untrue it just an opinion- that and a quarter will get you a phone call. The difference comes in the form of an informed opinion and an uninformed opinion. And in this discussion my opinion is one that is informed gained over the course of a season of watching Stewart play in college not put together with video GIFS and still photos. Is yours?

I have laid out my thoughts in a very cognitive manner with certified particulars supporting why I believe a player will most likely be able to play at the NBA level. I have never said that he will be good I promise. That is a flat out lie. Blind faith is for religion not basketball, buddy.

You said that JaVale would sign with the Raptors for the minimum not I? Walk it back if you want to. Facts are facts. Post some respectable facts and I'll respect them. Post some informed opinions and I'll marinate on them. Peace

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