2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

[HEZI]

What happened to Quentin Grimes? Dude had a weak sophomore year at Kansas then transferred to Houston and basically fell off the face of the Earth

Those Kansas players are tough to figure out. Josh Jackson, Frank Mason, Cheick Diallo... I guess Devonte Graham has been good. Also, Terrance Newman? Where is he at? Could have sworn some people here thought he was D Wade lol.

Malik? GLeague probably

[HEZI]

Plus he goes left all the time. I hate that.

Not a good pair when we got a slashing forward with a broken jumper who also loves to go left. I like Hayes though, but don't love him for the Knicks

Not broken iIMO , he just needs reps,his form is fine,a great Free Throw shooter, and wrapped up his season shoot 39% from 3. When all is said and done I think Hayes' negatives are most fixable and his upside is near the top.

His form needs work but it's fixable. He also sucks in catch and shoot situations. I do like Hayes and he has potential to improve on his weaknesses but he's going to need time to adjust and improve. He's not that good right now but I wouldn't be mad with taking a chance on him, like him more than Lamelo

[Zenzibar]

Considering that they're very high on him and their main need is a C, yeah its a no brainer for them.

Read on Twitter

Not according to https://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2020/4/28/21240595/warriors-wiseman-as-top-prospect-in-2020-nba-draft

Connor Letorneau of the SF Chronicle said he heard the Warriors wouldn’t pick Wiseman if they had the No. 1 overall pick.

“According to multiple league sources The Chronicle contacted in the past few days, the Warriors — contrary to what mock drafts might suggest — aren’t believed to be high on two of the three players being mentioned as possibilities at the No. 1 pick: former Memphis center James Wiseman and point guard LaMelo Ball, who last played for the Illawarra Hawks of Australia’s National Basketball League. As one source put it, “I think they’d only take one of those two if they were trading down in the draft and taking them for another team.”

Smoke screen. It’s the worst kept secret that they’re going to draft Wiseman.

You must have sauces...

[mpharris36]

I wouldn't trust ric bucher with any information ever

[RHODEY]

Not a good pair when we got a slashing forward with a broken jumper who also loves to go left. I like Hayes though, but don't love him for the Knicks

Not broken iIMO , he just needs reps,his form is fine,a great Free Throw shooter, and wrapped up his season shoot 39% from 3. When all is said and done I think Hayes' negatives are most fixable and his upside is near the top.

His form needs work but it's fixable. He also sucks in catch and shoot situations. I do like Hayes and he has potential to improve on his weaknesses but he's going to need time to adjust and improve. He's not that good right now but I wouldn't be mad with taking a chance on him, like him more than Lamelo

His form is ok and his shot has been improving

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/14/killian-hayes-scouting-report-collaboration/

Shooting: As of now, he isn’t a great C&S shooter but there are plenty of reasons to buy the shot because of his improvements from deep compared to last year, free throw percentage, good touch, and ability to shoot off the dribble. Form is pretty good with a quick release once the ball is in the pocket, but the gather and release are both a little low. Currently shooting 56.3% (9-16) on shots from 17’ feet to the 3 point line, essentially meaning long twos. This ranks in the 94th percentile compared to his 46th percentile shooting from beyond the arc.

Shot Versatility: Good shooter off-the-dribble with massive improvements compared to last year. Last year, he shot 31.4 FG% / 33.3% aFG% (16-51) in shots off the dribble and he has improved to 41.1 FG% / 52.1 aFG% (30/73) this year. Increasing his volume while also improving his efficiency is a good sign. Has a nice stepback that he uses to create a good amount of space because of his lack of burst – uses this often against switches. Sometimes relies on the stepback too much though. Does a nice job getting downhill into a pull up J with good footwork – displays nice burst / downhill speed into jumpers. Nice R-L crossover (to his strong hand) that he uses to get straight into pullup jumpers – does a good job selling the change of direction to get a good look. Aside from off the dribble jumpers, he’s almost exclusively a C&S player with next to no movement. Doesn’t get used off of screens often and rarely attacks off the catch in spot-up situations either.

Shot IQ: Good shot IQ for the most part. Doesn’t force up many shots besides the occasional stepback and can settle for jumpers if there is a lane or mismatch to attack. 61% of his shots are jumpers, which is not high for guards. The settling for jumpshots could be linked to his lack of athleticism to an extent. Though 73 of his 123 jumpers are off the bounce, this is role dependent due to him playing almost exclusively on-ball. The locations for his jumper is geared towards the modern NBA, taking a total of 86 of his 123 total jumpers from 3.

[jvsimonetti0514]

That's possible... I just don't see him as front runner in terms what would be best for our squad. If we get him at say 9th or 10th, when everyone else I wanted if of the table, then I will live with it and root for him.

But if we are picking 6th or highe,r no way in hell do I think he should be considered.

Who in the 6th range has more talent And would be considered BPA?

Just check through this thread and you'll see the consensus. But tankathon has him here:



and I dont disagree....there's at least 9 guys I would take ahead of him, maybe 11....

IMO I don't think there's a lot of separation in talent between any of the guys from 5-10. Haliburton, Avdija, Okoro, and Okongwu all look like they have role player/starter ceilings to me. Both Hayes and Cole are slightly ahead of that group with ceilings of being good starters/borderline all stars.

[HEZI]

Not broken iIMO , he just needs reps,his form is fine,a great Free Throw shooter, and wrapped up his season shoot 39% from 3. When all is said and done I think Hayes' negatives are most fixable and his upside is near the top.

His form needs work but it's fixable. He also sucks in catch and shoot situations. I do like Hayes and he has potential to improve on his weaknesses but he's going to need time to adjust and improve. He's not that good right now but I wouldn't be mad with taking a chance on him, like him more than Lamelo

His form is ok and his shot has been improving

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/14/killian-hayes-scouting-report-collaboration/

Shooting: As of now, he isn’t a great C&S shooter but there are plenty of reasons to buy the shot because of his improvements from deep compared to last year, free throw percentage, good touch, and ability to shoot off the dribble. Form is pretty good with a quick release once the ball is in the pocket, but the gather and release are both a little low. Currently shooting 56.3% (9-16) on shots from 17’ feet to the 3 point line, essentially meaning long twos. This ranks in the 94th percentile compared to his 46th percentile shooting from beyond the arc.

Shot Versatility: Good shooter off-the-dribble with massive improvements compared to last year. Last year, he shot 31.4 FG% / 33.3% aFG% (16-51) in shots off the dribble and he has improved to 41.1 FG% / 52.1 aFG% (30/73) this year. Increasing his volume while also improving his efficiency is a good sign. Has a nice stepback that he uses to create a good amount of space because of his lack of burst – uses this often against switches. Sometimes relies on the stepback too much though. Does a nice job getting downhill into a pull up J with good footwork – displays nice burst / downhill speed into jumpers. Nice R-L crossover (to his strong hand) that he uses to get straight into pullup jumpers – does a good job selling the change of direction to get a good look. Aside from off the dribble jumpers, he’s almost exclusively a C&S player with next to no movement. Doesn’t get used off of screens often and rarely attacks off the catch in spot-up situations either.

Shot IQ: Good shot IQ for the most part. Doesn’t force up many shots besides the occasional stepback and can settle for jumpers if there is a lane or mismatch to attack. 61% of his shots are jumpers, which is not high for guards. The settling for jumpshots could be linked to his lack of athleticism to an extent. Though 73 of his 123 jumpers are off the bounce, this is role dependent due to him playing almost exclusively on-ball. The locations for his jumper is geared towards the modern NBA, taking a total of 86 of his 123 total jumpers from 3.

He's a mid range shooter, I'm talking about his outside the line shooting. He's not good, needs work

[HEZI]

Okongwu seems overrated and definitely wouldn't take him if I'm the Knicks. He's like a Tristan Thompson type, limited upside although he could provide some positive things to a team he's not some big difference maker unless you have guards in place already and can just plug a guy like him in.

[RHODEY]

His form needs work but it's fixable. He also sucks in catch and shoot situations. I do like Hayes and he has potential to improve on his weaknesses but he's going to need time to adjust and improve. He's not that good right now but I wouldn't be mad with taking a chance on him, like him more than Lamelo

His form is ok and his shot has been improving

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/14/killian-hayes-scouting-report-collaboration/

Shooting: As of now, he isn’t a great C&S shooter but there are plenty of reasons to buy the shot because of his improvements from deep compared to last year, free throw percentage, good touch, and ability to shoot off the dribble. Form is pretty good with a quick release once the ball is in the pocket, but the gather and release are both a little low. Currently shooting 56.3% (9-16) on shots from 17’ feet to the 3 point line, essentially meaning long twos. This ranks in the 94th percentile compared to his 46th percentile shooting from beyond the arc.

Shot Versatility: Good shooter off-the-dribble with massive improvements compared to last year. Last year, he shot 31.4 FG% / 33.3% aFG% (16-51) in shots off the dribble and he has improved to 41.1 FG% / 52.1 aFG% (30/73) this year. Increasing his volume while also improving his efficiency is a good sign. Has a nice stepback that he uses to create a good amount of space because of his lack of burst – uses this often against switches. Sometimes relies on the stepback too much though. Does a nice job getting downhill into a pull up J with good footwork – displays nice burst / downhill speed into jumpers. Nice R-L crossover (to his strong hand) that he uses to get straight into pullup jumpers – does a good job selling the change of direction to get a good look. Aside from off the dribble jumpers, he’s almost exclusively a C&S player with next to no movement. Doesn’t get used off of screens often and rarely attacks off the catch in spot-up situations either.

Shot IQ: Good shot IQ for the most part. Doesn’t force up many shots besides the occasional stepback and can settle for jumpers if there is a lane or mismatch to attack. 61% of his shots are jumpers, which is not high for guards. The settling for jumpshots could be linked to his lack of athleticism to an extent. Though 73 of his 123 jumpers are off the bounce, this is role dependent due to him playing almost exclusively on-ball. The locations for his jumper is geared towards the modern NBA, taking a total of 86 of his 123 total jumpers from 3.

He's a mid range shooter, I'm talking about his outside the line shooting. He's not good, needs work

Ok he's a mid range shooter who has shown improvement in 3pt shooting and has decent form...agreed?

[HEZI]

His form is ok and his shot has been improving

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/14/killian-hayes-scouting-report-collaboration/

He's a mid range shooter, I'm talking about his outside the line shooting. He's not good, needs work

Ok he's a mid range shooter who has shown improvement in 3pt shooting and has decent form...agreed?

Agreed

[jvsimonetti0514]

I'm way more worried about Hayes athleticism than his jumper

[RHODEY]

I'm way more worried about Hayes athleticism than his jumper

Hi's not nonathletic, he's just average in that department. But like Luka IMO his skills,strength, and size will more than compensate.

[Zenzibar]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/4/30/21241882/nba-draft-2020-stars-role-players

The 2020 NBA Draft Class Isn’t Weak—It Just Isn’t Heavy on Stars
Don’t let the lack of household names fool you. This year’s draft features plenty of impact players projected to go in the lottery.

By Kevin O'Connor Apr 30, 2020, 7:45am EDT



Any NBA team would obviously rather draft its own Steph Curry or LeBron James in the lottery, rather than its own Shaun Livingston or Tristan Thompson. But every championship team in history has featured secondary guys who complement and enhance its best players—like Livingston’s playmaking did for the Warriors and Thompson’s rebounding did for the Cavaliers. And aren’t we all watching The Last Dance, which details how the Bulls front office built a strong supporting cast around Michael Jordan? Even the all-time greats needed help to win titles. The 2020 NBA draft class lacks the type of elite one-name prospects, like Luka or Zion, that we’ve been spoiled by in recent years. But while it doesn’t have star power, it does have depth and a plethora of potential high-end role players who could develop into the missing ingredient of a championship team’s recipe.




It’s still unclear when the 2020 draft will take place, because of the ongoing coronavirus pandemic. The draft can’t happen until after the 2019-20 season is over, and the league will hold off as long as possible before making any cancellations. League sources expect the NBA to push the draft from June 25 to August or September. Front office executives and scouts will have a lot of time to prepare for what is a particularly complicated draft due to the lack of in-person workouts and interviews, and the lack of consensus about the top prospects. Some teams consider LaMelo Ball the best prospect because of his size, silky ballhandling, and playmaking wizardry; others don’t have him in their top five due to concerns over his jump shot, decision-making, and defensive focus. Georgia guard Anthony Edwards could also go no. 1; he plays like a more muscular version of Victor Oladipo, but there is some Dion Waiters to his game, too, with his frustrating shot selection, hazy passing vision, and inconsistent defense. Teams drafting high will have to ask themselves: Does it make more sense to gamble on a prospect with theoretically higher upside like Ball or Edwards, or make a safer bet?


Ball and Edwards can be juxtaposed against a prospect like Iowa State sophomore Tyrese Haliburton, who is more than a year older than them, and lacks the flashy handle and athletic burst found in many franchise-changing point guards. But he compensates with his natural feel for the game and a reliable jumper. Haliburton is a genius-level playmaker with a deep understanding of how to manipulate defenders and the ability to deliver the ball with precision.


NBA coaches will love Haliburton because he does all the little things that contribute to winning. He swings the ball, takes the right shots, and makes smart defensive rotations. Haliburton makes for an appealing prospect in the mid-to-late lottery of any draft class; he ranks no. 4 on my board this year, and to put the strength of the 2020 class in perspective, he would have ranked seventh in 2019. Haliburton is one of many lottery guards available this year who could eventually run effective offenses. My top-ranked prospect is French guard Killian Hayes, who projects as a productive playmaker and scorer. There’s a speedy shot creator in Alabama’s Kira Lewis Jr., a freshman with a knack for making clutch plays in Kentucky’s Tyrese Maxey, and a sharpshooter in Stanford guard Tyrell Terry—among others. Not all of them will necessarily find success at the next level, but they’re all appealing talents for teams to pluck from the crop.

Watch on YouTube

Shot creation is one of the most important skills in today’s league. So is versatility. The 2020 draft is littered with 3-and-D wings of many different varieties. There are players who need to improve their jumpers but already defend as if it’s their way of life, like Auburn’s Isaac Okoro. There are those who can shoot the lights out but need to improve their man-to-man defense, such as Vanderbilt’s Aaron Nesmith. There are raw talents like Washington’s Jaden McDaniels. And there are players who flash star ability like Maccabi Tel Aviv’s Deni Avdija. But Florida State wing Devin Vassell, who ranks sixth on my board, is arguably the best of the bunch. Vassell is an excellent defender who disrupts action off the ball and who has the length and agility to defend quicker guards in addition to opposing wings. On offense, he shot 42 percent from 3 and as a sophomore he displayed flashes of being more than a spot-up shooter.


Players like Haliburton and Vassell may never tempt teams into tanking, but they could help any team improve with their complementary skill sets—and they both possess upside that they could unexpectedly reach. Surprises happen! Front offices picking at the top of the lottery will need to balance risky upside versus greater certainty. Positional value will also weigh heavily on these decisions, possibly more than in most years.

Consider Memphis center James Wiseman, who is widely considered the best big in the draft. Wiseman is a physical specimen who shows flashes of Rudy Gobert on the defensive end and Rasheed Wallace on the offensive end. But there have long been concerns about his ability to make the quick reads needed to be an excellent defender and more of a creator than a finisher on offense. Unless a center projects as a bona fide star like Joel Embiid or Nikola Jokic, a team is usually best served searching for a bargain and spending elsewhere—like the Lakers did with JaVale McGee, the Clippers with Ivica Zubac, and the Celtics with Daniel Theis. Plus, selecting centers high in the lottery is risky. Recent big men like Deandre Ayton (no. 1, 2018), Marvin Bagley III (no. 2, 2018), Lauri Markkanen (no. 7, 2017), and Dragan Bender (no. 4, 2016) have underwhelmed compared to wings and guards drafted after them.

But Wiseman is no slouch. It’s tough to see him failing. He could immediately slide into a rim-running role on offense and it won’t require much work to make him an impactful defender because of his sheer size. Teams may understandably covet him because they know he could become a competent center, even if he never fully realizes his tremendous potential.

Wiseman is a potential star, but he’s not the only potential contributor. It’s easy to envision USC’s Onyeka Okongwu or Dayton’s Obi Toppin also finding NBA roles. Both of them should be mid-to-late lottery picks. Okongwu lacks Wiseman’s ceiling because of his offensive shortcomings, but he has a higher floor because of his handle, passing vision, and defensive instincts. Toppin looks like a modern Amar’e Stoudemire on offense, even if he has glaring warts on defense. Rankings are all over the place for each big because of differing philosophies around the league about the position’s value in an era that puts a premium on shooting and playmaking. But their potential to contribute is undeniable, and if one (or more) of them end up falling in the lottery, they could be cost-effective role players for a team in immediate need of a big man.

Wiseman, Ball, and Edwards are the projected top picks, but no one really knows how this draft will shake out. It will probably be a long time before we hear Adam Silver call a draft pick’s name. Teams might not find many franchise saviors this year, but they don’t have to look hard to find role-playing talent that can help build a winning organization.

[robillionaire]

Teams drafting high will have to ask themselves: Does it make more sense to gamble on a prospect with theoretically higher upside like Ball or Edwards, or make a safer bet? ... Front offices picking at the top of the lottery will need to balance risky upside versus greater certainty. Positional value will also weigh heavily on these decisions, possibly more than in most years.

I'd say the Knicks need to be going 100% towards "risky upside" over "greater certainty" which, let's be honest, none of these sure thing safe bet role players have any degree of certainty either, nothing is certain in life. If this season culminates in a pick that has a ceiling of role player that's a failure in my book, give me any of the top gamble picks that have at least some star potential

[Fury]

I can't believe we had this terrible a season and aren't even in the top 5. Special kind of bad

[3toheadmelo]

Not according to https://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2020/4/28/21240595/warriors-wiseman-as-top-prospect-in-2020-nba-draft

Connor Letorneau of the SF Chronicle said he heard the Warriors wouldn’t pick Wiseman if they had the No. 1 overall pick.

“According to multiple league sources The Chronicle contacted in the past few days, the Warriors — contrary to what mock drafts might suggest — aren’t believed to be high on two of the three players being mentioned as possibilities at the No. 1 pick: former Memphis center James Wiseman and point guard LaMelo Ball, who last played for the Illawarra Hawks of Australia’s National Basketball League. As one source put it, “I think they’d only take one of those two if they were trading down in the draft and taking them for another team.”

Smoke screen. It’s the worst kept secret that they’re going to draft Wiseman.

You must have sauces...

Since the season started everyone has been saying Golden State is taking Wiseman. Why would they take Lamelo or Edwards over him when they already have Steph and Klay? You think the Warriors are contempt with Marquese Chriss as starting 5? Lol

[3toheadmelo]

I wouldn't trust ric bucher with any information ever

I wouldn’t trust Marc Berman either

[Zenzibar]

Smoke screen. It’s the worst kept secret that they’re going to draft Wiseman.

You must have sauces...

Since the season started everyone has been saying Golden State is taking Wiseman. Why would they take Lamelo or Edwards over him when they already have Steph and Klay? You think the Warriors are contempt with Marquese Chriss as starting 5? Lol

Wouldn't it be funny if the Warriors fall out of the top pick.

[mpharris36]

I wouldn't trust ric bucher with any information ever

I wouldn’t trust Marc Berman either

yes you have stated that before. Still has nothing to do with bucher being a sh*t source. which you agreed with last year. In a span of a year he is no longer a "hack"?

Idk what 2010 said but we talking about Bucher? This guy?

Literally everyone who has reported on it said that we had the meeting scheduled for July 3rd and canceled it.

I don't know why that's hard to believe.

I don’t believe hacks

[mpharris36]

I can't believe we had this terrible a season and aren't even in the top 5. Special kind of bad

with developing taj, randle, elfrid payton, wayne ellington, and bobby portis