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2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1661 » by WargamesX » Sun May 3, 2020 5:14 pm

robillionaire wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Yes Tyrese handles are better but still basic to me. But his playmaking is 100x better.

I would not want to see a Tyrese and Frank back court. Frank still can’t play off the ball due to not being a consistent shooter. Keep him on the bench



If they drafted Haliburton, Frank would be coming off the bench.


I would have Frank be my backup PG but it might just be too redundant with if they draft Haliburton. I'd try to trade frank for a scoring PG. Since we still won't have one


Do we though with RJ at SG? The overall roster needs 3 pt shooting, not score dominance from PG. We do need another high impact scorer but it can come from anywhere on the roster.

Frank is a Marcus Smart type player. There is a lot of value having a guy like that on your team.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1662 » by malik959 » Sun May 3, 2020 5:23 pm

robillionaire wrote:PGs:

Lamelo is the only PG prospect I’d really be excited about, would take 1st overall and throw a “after all these years we finally got a pg” party.

After that Hayes and Cole would be in my tier 2 and I might be unenthusiastically leaning towards Cole just because I know at least he will get you some buckets. I’m not entirely sure about the fit with Hayes and his left handed dominance although I’d still be optimistic if we walk away with him. This is considering 7th-8th pick. Wouldn’t reach for them over Edwards or Wiseman. But you could do worse at 7 or 8. Cole admittedly didn’t live up to the hype at UNC but I’m starting to be in the camp of thinking maybe he’s a little under rated at this point when people are putting him outside the top 10 and think it would be worth the gamble. Plus I just don’t like any other prospects that would be in that range enough to take over Hayes and Cole.

Maxey, Kira, Mannion, Maledon, Tre Jones, are in my “see who falls to 27” tier. Would not trade up for them. If I had to order them: Maxey, Kira, Mannion, Tre, Maledon.

Would not draft Haliburton top 8, I do think he has some skills but I don’t think he’s the kind of guard we need, his offensive ability is about the same as Frank as in he’s not a real scoring threat other than spot up or catch and shoot 3s, can’t really go to the rim or get to the line, can’t make pull-up jumpers, good defender but not as good as Frank, not as tall or large wingspan as frank, the main thing he has over him is is shooting and honestly Frank’s shooting confidence had been slowly improving, and I’m still not sure Haliburton’s shot isn’t fools gold because the form is so ugly. I see him more as a late lottery pick 10-14, would still take him over the “see who falls to 27” guys but below Lamelo Hayes and Cole.

I didn’t list Hampton because I’m not really sure if he’s a PG but I’d put him somewhere around late lottery like Haliburton. Between the two I’d take the upside of Hampton. These two are my tier 3.

Now that I’ve worked it all out in my head

1. LaMelo

2. Cole
3. Hayes (I keep going back and forth on the order of these two, today it’s Cole)

4. Hampton
5. Haliburton

6. Maxey
7. Kira
8. Mannion
9. Tre
10. Maledon

Don’t criticize this without putting your own top 1-10 PG. No ties


Good write up and I agree most part.

Out of all players in this draft LaMelo worries me most, and I must say I don't see what others see in him. His main upsides are being 6'7 and he's a great passer, but to me his downsides out weight his upsides. He's a worse defender than Calderon, and a worse shooter than Frank (Frank has the better form). To me he's basically a shorter Ben Simmons without the Defense.

I flip flop between both Hayes and Cole but I tend to lean towards Cole more. Hayes can become better, but he is a 4 year project. Are fans patient enough to wait for him? Cole to me is the point guard we need, someone that can score, pass, has some decent athleticism, and plus he's a NYer, he's use to this spot light. Yeah I know he has his flaws, but I don't feel he truly had his opportunity with the team he was on and also due to his injuries. Haliburton is another guard I like, but what worries me about him is his weight. He's been in college for 2 years and hasn't put on anything. Outside of that he's a very good player, I may not see an all star in him, but I feel that he can be that Mike Conley. That player that provides everything for your team - Floor general, defense, good shooting percentage....

Kira Lewis is a speed demon, can get by just anybody with his first step, but he has low level athleticism and he finishes at the rim like Mudiay. He's also a poor decision maker and sometimes throws the worst passes a guard could ever make (loves to leave his feet and commits to the pass before it's thrown). Like I said above he's a speed demon, but that's not always good because he plays out of control.

Tre Jones is another Derek Fisher, solid, but nothing special.

Going by picking 6th, if we moved up Edwards or trade down would be my choice.

1) Cole Anthony. Best case Steve Franchise, worst case a more athletic Trey Burke
2) Hayes. best Case - Luka Doncic, worst - Frank Ntilikina
3) Lamelo Ball - Best case Penny, worst - Calderon
4) Haliburton - Best Conley, Worst - Donte Exum

Players I would trade up from 27th

5) Devin Vassell
6) Aaron Nesmith
7) RJ Hampton
8) Tyrese Maxey

Players I would take at 27th

9) Patrick Williams
10) Precious Achiuwa
11) Cassius Stanley
12) Jalen Smith
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1663 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun May 3, 2020 5:25 pm

robillionaire wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
I would have Frank be my backup PG but it might just be too redundant with if they draft Haliburton. I'd try to trade frank for a scoring PG. Since we still won't have one

Our point guard doesn’t have to be a scoring one tho. Haliburton’s court vision gives him the potential to run a offense. I wouldn’t mind keeping Frank as a glue guy off the bench.


The starter doesn't have to be a scoring one I agree but I don't think you need a glue guy starter and a glue guy backup I think you need different types of options for when you need a change of pace

Yeah I guess. Don’t know who we can get for Frank tho. I imagine his value is still low. Ideally the backup scoring PG we’re looking for is DSJ. Still can’t even explain what happened to him this season smh
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1664 » by robillionaire » Sun May 3, 2020 5:33 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Our point guard doesn’t have to be a scoring one tho. Haliburton’s court vision gives him the potential to run a offense. I wouldn’t mind keeping Frank as a glue guy off the bench.


The starter doesn't have to be a scoring one I agree but I don't think you need a glue guy starter and a glue guy backup I think you need different types of options for when you need a change of pace

Yeah I guess. Don’t know who we can get for Frank tho. I imagine his value is still low. Ideally the backup scoring PG we’re looking for is DSJ. Still can’t even explain what happened to him this season smh


bojangles happened he got fat I swear it's that simple :lol:

You're right though DSJ, not the DSJ from last year obviously but the DSJ we were expecting based on his first 2 years is the kind of player who would be good for that scoring PG role

personally I would want to make frank permanent backup PG who we can also put in situational off ball when you need added defense and a late stop, and would have lamelo or cole starting. Hayes would be interesting too because then you'd have two french guards, I'm not sure if that's good for their co-development and integration into the league or we'd just wind up with two bad french PGs :lol:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1665 » by RHODEY » Sun May 3, 2020 5:35 pm

robillionaire wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
Haliburton at 20 is currently a year younger than frank at 21 but frank has been in the nba 3 years already on the most dysfunctional team in the league. So yes Haliburton should be lot more NBA ready and confident than frank was in 2017

Ok we acknowledge their similar physical dimensions (although Haliburton again lacks a few inches of height and wingspan compared to frank, both are super thin) and defensive ability.

Haliburton looks like a great passer especially pick and roll but his shortcoming in the NBA will be the same as frank, and it’s that he doesn’t have the handle the craftiness or the speed and strength to get to the rim like the great playmakers can do. He reminds me more of Frank on the French National team, a bus driver 3 and D PG who can bring it up and make the right reads but isn’t really a dynamic scorer or playmaker. In fact if you compare haliburton per 36 mins stats to Frank in FIBA last summer they are pretty similar

I think that type of player is better suited for an established team who needs an NBA ready game manager type player but a team in need of star power with extreme lack of talent might need to take a swing for the fences. Plus we have that mold of player already... frank


Frank is listed @ 6'4" while Haliburton is 6'5" Franks Wing span is 7'1" while Hali's is 7.0 So they are nearly identical physically. His handle is good actually, not sure why people think its lacking :

Actually the more I look at Haliburton the more I like him. He's got an "IT" factor to him.


I don't think his handle is "bad" it's pretty solid actually, I mean he will take care of the ball and has a great assist to turnover ratio as he manages the game which is exactly what you want from this type of player, but I don't see him being able to get to the rim with it,that is to say he's not going to be crossing people over to get past a defender. I would once again put it about the same as frank

I'm not really even trying to knock him with that comparison because I like frank, he had a 20 pt 10 ast game the 2nd to last game of the season.

I just don't see why the knicks would take him. The reports are that they are prioritizing a "scoring point guard" if you look on tankathon he has a lot of statistical plus categories, but what are the two statistical negatives? Points, and FTA rate. So one might ask, how is this guy not scoring a lot of points when he plays nearly the entire game and shoots 42% from 3? FTA rate is one clue, can't really get the rim or get to the line, skinny frame is probably one reason for that limitation, and also mid range game is not there with the weird shot release.

Anyway I could be totally wrong his shot could translate flawlessly and he could be the next SGA, let's find out :lol:


15.2 points on 50% shooting....I'll take that over what any of his other rivals (including Hayes) have produced. I'll acknowledge he doesn't get to the rim to much , but when you factor in all the things he can do how can the Knicks overlook that from a team aspect?

I mean the Knicks FO would rather have another inefficient "Stephon Marbury- lite" player over a guy that is super smart, can play make like a pro, can shoot light outs, can defend speedster guards, has length /height? I mean Hayes is my guy but to be totally honest Hali fits much better AND could be as good.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1666 » by RHODEY » Sun May 3, 2020 5:40 pm

Naughtyfatboy wrote:hailburton is more lonzo ball than Ntilkina. I can see why he would get compared to Ntilkina though. He’s the type of player that is intent with running the offense through his teammates rather than scoring himself. The major difference is he is efficiently shooting 40 percent from 3 and is a mastermind in transition. Outside of that their Is nothing WOW about hailburton on offense.


Right....and when no one else in this draft can shoot...being a dead eye shooter is a "WOW" on offense imo :)
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1667 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun May 3, 2020 5:41 pm

robillionaire wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
The starter doesn't have to be a scoring one I agree but I don't think you need a glue guy starter and a glue guy backup I think you need different types of options for when you need a change of pace

Yeah I guess. Don’t know who we can get for Frank tho. I imagine his value is still low. Ideally the backup scoring PG we’re looking for is DSJ. Still can’t even explain what happened to him this season smh


bojangles happened he got fat I swear it's that simple :lol:

You're right though DSJ, not the DSJ from last year obviously but the DSJ we were expecting based on his first 2 years is the kind of player who would be good for that scoring PG role

personally I would want to make frank permanent backup PG who we can also put in situational off ball when you need added defense and a late stop, and would have lamelo or cole starting. Hayes would be interesting too because then you'd have two french guards, I'm not sure if that's good for their co-development and integration into the league or we'd just wind up with two bad french PGs :lol:

:lol:
That's the thing though. Are we really sure the Knicks will consider drafting another French player? Especially when Leon Rose cut ties with Frank as an agent too. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Hayes is not even on their radar.

For the backup scoring PG role tho... I really like Payton Pritchard with one of our later picks. He's really underrated imo. Or I guess we can see if DSJ redeems himself next season.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1668 » by RHODEY » Sun May 3, 2020 5:43 pm

WargamesX wrote:Their are similarities between Frank and Haliburton but they have different types of games and would likely thrive in different situations.

They both are larger PGs who play defense, and have 3 pt range due to Catch and Shoot. Frank is a secondary ball handler. He’s been trying to play PG but has been having issues due to lack of speed. He’s been working on his dribble drive and we’ve seen progress. Haliburton is a primary ball handler who can play off ball because he has range.

Just looking at the types of passes Haliburton makes and he is better than Frank at it. Frank is reliable to make the good past, Haliburton has more creativity with his passes and shows flashiness with it. Also for the dribble drive Frank often relied on pick to get space and then drive. A few videos mentioned how a flaw to Hal’s game was him not using picks enough, instead he would use his dribble, eye movement (like a QB) and ball protection to get to the ball.

Neither player has great foot speed, but Haliburton game fits a primary PG, Franks game fits a Combo D&3 guard who can play back up PG/SG. This difference between them is good because it allows the two of them to play together in the back court and to play with RJ at SG.


Yep they compliment each other well. Comparing this is like apples and oranges or more like Tangerines and oranges :)
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1669 » by robillionaire » Sun May 3, 2020 6:05 pm

RHODEY wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Frank is listed @ 6'4" while Haliburton is 6'5" Franks Wing span is 7'1" while Hali's is 7.0 So they are nearly identical physically. His handle is good actually, not sure why people think its lacking :

Actually the more I look at Haliburton the more I like him. He's got an "IT" factor to him.


I don't think his handle is "bad" it's pretty solid actually, I mean he will take care of the ball and has a great assist to turnover ratio as he manages the game which is exactly what you want from this type of player, but I don't see him being able to get to the rim with it,that is to say he's not going to be crossing people over to get past a defender. I would once again put it about the same as frank

I'm not really even trying to knock him with that comparison because I like frank, he had a 20 pt 10 ast game the 2nd to last game of the season.

I just don't see why the knicks would take him. The reports are that they are prioritizing a "scoring point guard" if you look on tankathon he has a lot of statistical plus categories, but what are the two statistical negatives? Points, and FTA rate. So one might ask, how is this guy not scoring a lot of points when he plays nearly the entire game and shoots 42% from 3? FTA rate is one clue, can't really get the rim or get to the line, skinny frame is probably one reason for that limitation, and also mid range game is not there with the weird shot release.

Anyway I could be totally wrong his shot could translate flawlessly and he could be the next SGA, let's find out :lol:


15.2 points on 50% shooting....I'll take that over what any of his other rivals (including Hayes) have produced. I'll acknowledge he doesn't get to the rim to much , but when you factor in all the things he can do how can the Knicks overlook that from a team aspect?

I mean the Knicks FO would rather have another inefficient "Stephon Marbury- lite" player over a guy that is super smart, can play make like a pro, can shoot light outs, can defend speedster guards, has length /height? I mean Hayes is my guy but to be totally honest Hali fits much better AND could be as good.


He was a very efficient player, there's no arguing it, it's definitely a positive for Haliburton. I think he's just lower on my board because of the existence of Frank. I'm still a Frank believer I think he's a solid game manager defensive PG and I think he improved quite a bit last season his shot was improved (career high 32.1% from 3 yes I know that's still not good lol) had been attacking with more confidence, was building a nice rapport with Mitch on lobs and even with Taj Gibson and I think he was finally primed for a breakout. Same reason wiseman is lower on my board, because I'm a Mitch believer and think he provides some of the same shot blocking and rim running you would be expecting from wiseman. Now if someone is saying they think these guys are the BPA wherever we are selecting and want to take them based on BPA I understand that but I'm set with Mitch and Frank in those roles and I think the comparison is legit despite Halliburton admittedly being better in some aspects.

I also have to consider the level of competition, frank has been going against the best PGs in the world in the NBA for the past few years and Haliburton was a year 2 ncaa player, which if you're a lotto pick you are expected to be dominating at that level. So if he can't get to the rim and the line at that level it's going to be a lot harder in the big leagues
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1670 » by HEZI » Sun May 3, 2020 6:06 pm

robillionaire wrote:
HEZI wrote:
malik959 wrote:Hi weaknesses kind of remind me of Frank. He might be the better shooter, but his speed, low athletic ability, sketchy court awareness when it comes to some of his passing, and lateral quickness screams Frank. just a better version of him.


Thought the exact same thing. Although he's craftier than Frank he's still raw and has a high bust potential. We absolutely can't afford to come out this draft with another Frank Ntilikina.


It’s interesting you would be so high on Haliburton then because from what I can tell his frame and game seems a lot closer to Frank’s than anybody else. I don’t see the Hayes comparison with Frank other than that they’re both French and raw af


Besides their frame, Haliburton and Frank are nothing alike. Haliburton is way better. Hayes is closer to Frank for sure
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1671 » by Deeeez Knicks » Sun May 3, 2020 6:08 pm

I like Frank, but probably better off with him coming off the bench. Just give him consistent minutes/role. Draft bpa available regardless. It might end up being Haliburton. Could work out well.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1672 » by robillionaire » Sun May 3, 2020 6:10 pm

HEZI wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Thought the exact same thing. Although he's craftier than Frank he's still raw and has a high bust potential. We absolutely can't afford to come out this draft with another Frank Ntilikina.


It’s interesting you would be so high on Haliburton then because from what I can tell his frame and game seems a lot closer to Frank’s than anybody else. I don’t see the Hayes comparison with Frank other than that they’re both French and raw af


Besides their frame, Haliburton and Frank are nothing alike. Haliburton is way better. Hayes is closer to Frank for sure


Who would you take between haliburton and cole tho. I'm saying cole, but I think it's strange to have them both in such high regards for who you want the knicks to select because they are such fundamentally opposite players

I swear ya'll are just making that hayes comparison because they're french :lol:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1673 » by HEZI » Sun May 3, 2020 6:11 pm

Naughtyfatboy wrote:hailburton is more lonzo ball than Ntilkina. I can see why he would get compared to Ntilkina though. He’s the type of player that is intent with running the offense through his teammates rather than scoring himself. The major difference is he is efficiently shooting 40 percent from 3 and is a mastermind in transition. Outside of that their Is nothing WOW about hailburton on offense.


More like a blend of Lonzo and SGA. There's nothing WOW about SGA either, he's just smooth and gets things done. Haliburton is similar.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1674 » by HEZI » Sun May 3, 2020 6:22 pm

robillionaire wrote:
HEZI wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
It’s interesting you would be so high on Haliburton then because from what I can tell his frame and game seems a lot closer to Frank’s than anybody else. I don’t see the Hayes comparison with Frank other than that they’re both French and raw af


Besides their frame, Haliburton and Frank are nothing alike. Haliburton is way better. Hayes is closer to Frank for sure


Who would you take between haliburton and cole tho. I'm saying cole, but I think it's strange to have them both in such high regards for who you want the knicks to select because they are such fundamentally opposite players

I swear ya'll are just making that hayes comparison because they're french :lol:


For the Knicks I like Cole. Although I like Haliburton too and would love him on the Knicks, I like Cole's potential as a scorer a little more. Wouldn't be mad at either of the two if we took them.

Hayes is more raw than either of them that's why he's closer to Frank. Hayes is more of a project pick, he's not somebody who I would rely on for the first couple years.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1675 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun May 3, 2020 6:24 pm

Another guy I would consider drafting with one of our later picks as a scoring PG off the bench besides Pritchard would be this guy. That jumper is the definition of wet
;t=480s
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1676 » by HEZI » Sun May 3, 2020 6:32 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:Another guy I would consider drafting with one of our later picks as a scoring PG off the bench besides Pritchard would be this guy. That jumper is the definition of wet
;t=480s


Cassius Winston would be my guy later in the 2nd round

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1677 » by robillionaire » Sun May 3, 2020 6:35 pm

what about markus howard. shot 10.1 3s per game at a 41.2% clip. yeah I know he's short

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1678 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun May 3, 2020 6:43 pm

HEZI wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Another guy I would consider drafting with one of our later picks as a scoring PG off the bench besides Pritchard would be this guy. That jumper is the definition of wet
;t=480s


Cassius Winston would be my guy later in the 2nd round


I wouldnt mind him
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1679 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun May 3, 2020 6:44 pm

robillionaire wrote:what about markus howard. shot 10.1 3s per game at a 41.2% clip. yeah I know he's short


Hes nasty as a scorer but not sure if he'll get drafted. DX has him as the last pick in the whole draft at #60 lol

Maybe we can get him with a 2 way contract if he goes undrafted
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1680 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun May 3, 2020 6:47 pm

My #1 target would still be Karim Mane tho if he stays in the draft. Jrue Holiday clone. Idk if he is going 1st round or 2nd round
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