Trade Talk (Part Four)

[Mattya]

Johnson, Layman, Spellman, Evans, Nowell and Wolves pick for Aaron Gordon, Terrance Ross and Orlando pick.

Then package Orlando pick, Wolves second rounder, and Vanderbilt to move up for Tyrese Maxey and draft Tyler Bey with the Brooklyn pick.

DLo/Maxey/Jmac
Beasley/Culver
Ross/Okogie/Martin
Gordon/Hernangomez/Bey
Towns/Reid

[andyhop]

One thing that I will be interested in seeing is if COVID-19 leads to a weak trading market over the off-season. For teams that would possibly consider tearing it down/restructuring after a disappointing Playoffs may be substantially more likely to just run it back.
.

Or it might go the other way with teams not wanting to pay for mediocre after losing money through the lockdown trying to jettison their big contracts

[minimus]

Johnson, Layman, Spellman, Evans, Nowell and Wolves pick for Aaron Gordon, Terrance Ross and Orlando pick.

Then package Orlando pick, Wolves second rounder, and Vanderbilt to move up for Tyrese Maxey and draft Tyler Bey with the Brooklyn pick.

DLo/Maxey/Jmac
Beasley/Culver
Ross/Okogie/Martin
Gordon/Hernangomez/Bey
Towns/Reid

I don't like Ross fit/contract here. IMO we have no cap space for low impact player such as Ross. So I'd do Johnson, Culver, Evans, Nowell and Brooklyn pick for Aaron Gordon, Khem Birch. Then trade our 2020 FRP, Spellman for BOS #17, #26, #30. Draft Tyler Bey, Kira Lewis Jr, Desmond Bane and long-term prospect with SRP.

DLo/Lewis Jr/Jmac
Beasley/Okogie/Bane
Layman/Martin/Okogie + SRP
Gordon/Hernangomez/Bey + Vanderbilt
Towns/Reid/Birch

[Jedzz]

Johnson, Layman, Spellman, Evans, Nowell and Wolves pick for Aaron Gordon, Terrance Ross and Orlando pick.

Then package Orlando pick, Wolves second rounder, and Vanderbilt to move up for Tyrese Maxey and draft Tyler Bey with the Brooklyn pick.

DLo/Maxey/Jmac
Beasley/Culver
Ross/Okogie/Martin
Gordon/Hernangomez/Bey
Towns/Reid

I don't like Ross fit/contract here. IMO we have no cap space for low impact player such as Ross. So I'd do Johnson, Culver, Evans, Nowell and Brooklyn pick for Aaron Gordon, Khem Birch. Then trade our 2020 FRP, Spellman for BOS #17, #26, #30. Draft Tyler Bey, Kira Lewis Jr, Desmond Bane and long-term prospect with SRP.

DLo/Lewis Jr/Jmac
Beasley/Okogie/Bane
Layman/Martin/Okogie + SRP
Gordon/Hernangomez/Bey + Vanderbilt
Towns/Reid/Birch

Why are you both placing rookies infront of Jmac? He proved a perfectly usable backup point. In fact he may have proved twice as good as they once had in Tyus Jones. If the other four starters were better you could use Jmac as a starting point and get by just fine. So he's fine as a backup and maybe a really good backup. Rookies can get in line and learn from behind him now and attempt to prove they deserve to move up over a good player like this. Please stop suggesting the wasting of positives they have already found. It's such an annual machine now to just insert new names infront of anyone.

[minimus]

Johnson, Layman, Spellman, Evans, Nowell and Wolves pick for Aaron Gordon, Terrance Ross and Orlando pick.

Then package Orlando pick, Wolves second rounder, and Vanderbilt to move up for Tyrese Maxey and draft Tyler Bey with the Brooklyn pick.

DLo/Maxey/Jmac
Beasley/Culver
Ross/Okogie/Martin
Gordon/Hernangomez/Bey
Towns/Reid

I don't like Ross fit/contract here. IMO we have no cap space for low impact player such as Ross. So I'd do Johnson, Culver, Evans, Nowell and Brooklyn pick for Aaron Gordon, Khem Birch. Then trade our 2020 FRP, Spellman for BOS #17, #26, #30. Draft Tyler Bey, Kira Lewis Jr, Desmond Bane and long-term prospect with SRP.

DLo/Lewis Jr/Jmac
Beasley/Okogie/Bane
Layman/Martin/Okogie + SRP
Gordon/Hernangomez/Bey + Vanderbilt
Towns/Reid/Birch

Why are you both placing rookies infront of Jmac? He proved a perfectly usable backup point. In fact he may have proved twice as good as they once had in Tyus Jones. If the other four starters were better you could use Jmac as a starting point and get by just fine. So he's fine as a backup and maybe a really good backup. Rookies can get in line and learn from behind him now and attempt to prove they deserve to move up over a good player like this. Please stop suggesting the wasting of positives they have already found. It's such an annual machine now to just insert new names infront of anyone.

1) JMac will be free agent. He is a great find at minimum, but how much he wants to be paid next year, and how much can we afford to offer?
2) I put Lewis in front of JMac because of upside and fit. He is labeled as the quickest player of the draft. Imagine De'Aaron Fox type of player playing with our bench. Imagine playing De'Aaron Fox type of player playing with DLo. Fit+upside
3) These rotations are not set. Important is to have the right personnel to run our system. But you are right - we need to stabilize our PG position and lock JMac to long-term team-friendly contract.

[Klomp]

One thing I think about with Johnson is it's one of our last opportunities to use that salary slot to add a bigger ticket item. If he leaves in FA, we can only add someone for the MLE at most. If he re-signs for a discount, that extension amount becomes the new salary slot. Right now, he's a $16 million player. That could be very useful if trying to add significant talent.

Sure. I wonder though when building a winning team will usurp the idea of keeping the financial loopholes open. Heart with skills is hard to find. Who's the next Gorgui Dieng we are going to take back in for that 16 sized slot? It's not like we are talking about a 30 sized slot to sign someone of that stature. Had to pay Teague 20 to come here.

Trade rules allow singly-traded Johnson to bring back contracts up to $21 million. If Johnson stays, and re-signs in 2021 for only $6 million, he could only bring back around $10 million in contracts after that. If he leaves in free agency, he would bring back $0 in contracts. That's a big difference for a salary-capped team if the goal is to build a winning team, as you said.

[Jedzz]

One thing I think about with Johnson is it's one of our last opportunities to use that salary slot to add a bigger ticket item. If he leaves in FA, we can only add someone for the MLE at most. If he re-signs for a discount, that extension amount becomes the new salary slot. Right now, he's a $16 million player. That could be very useful if trying to add significant talent.

Sure. I wonder though when building a winning team will usurp the idea of keeping the financial loopholes open. Heart with skills is hard to find. Who's the next Gorgui Dieng we are going to take back in for that 16 sized slot? It's not like we are talking about a 30 sized slot to sign someone of that stature. Had to pay Teague 20 to come here.

Trade rules allow singly-traded Johnson to bring back contracts up to $21 million. If Johnson stays, and re-signs in 2021 for only $6 million, he could only bring back around $10 million in contracts after that. If he leaves in free agency, he would bring back $0 in contracts. That's a big difference for a salary-capped team if the goal is to build a winning team, as you said.

I didn't know they could trade him for a player that costs 5 million more. That's like 31% of what is contract is, or do I have Johnson's number wrong? I'm a little surprised. However that's Teague +1MM.

Regardless, what I was saying was to keep him. All of your future goals are to see him gone and be concerned with what you get from him being gone. If he stays I don't care about those numbers. We haven't seen him play a season with Kat. He could be the very guy that makes this all work.

[Klomp]

I didn't know they could trade him for a player that costs 5 million more. That's like 31% of what is contract is, or do I have Johnson's number wrong? I'm a little surprised. However that's Teague +1MM.

It all depends on the total outgoing salaries amount.

[Jedzz]

I didn't know they could trade him for a player that costs 5 million more. That's like 31% of what is contract is, or do I have Johnson's number wrong? I'm a little surprised. However that's Teague +1MM.

It all depends on the total outgoing salaries amount.

I'm learning some nitty gritty today. Appreciate your efforts.


So if Johnson resigned for less such as the 6MM you proposed earlier, than the incoming of trading him in the future is still over 10MM.

Now the part you skipped quoting. All your proposed options for him involve shipping him out. Do you not think he works well if KAT is playing?

[shrink]

I didn't know they could trade him for a player that costs 5 million more. That's like 31% of what is contract is, or do I have Johnson's number wrong? I'm a little surprised. However that's Teague +1MM.

It all depends on the total outgoing salaries amount.

I'm learning some nitty gritty today. Appreciate your efforts.

So if Johnson resigned for less such as the 6MM you proposed earlier, than the incoming of trading him in the future is still over 10MM.

Now the part you skipped quoting. All your proposed options for him involve shipping him out. Do you not think he works well if KAT is playing?

You can learn a lot at the amazing http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

Johnson is 33 and has a player option for $16 mil. He is not going to get $16 mil in the open market — he’d be unlikely to get a $9 mil MLE deal, so it’s almost guaranteed he’s opting in. Occasionally an older player may opt out if he had another, multi-year deal in place, but nobody is going to give him a contract that runs three years, and at $6 mil, he’s better off being paid $16 mil for one year of work anyway.

Johnson works okay next to KAT (better than I expected), but he doesn’t tick all the boxes. MIN’s optimum PF...

- Hits 3P at a decent 3PA
- Great mobile defender who can switch
- Can run
- Fits Towns age range
- Cheaper would be nice (Towns, Russell on max deals)

I agree with Klomp that Johnson’s best use is as trade ballast to get a star - ballast we don’t have elsewhere, at least until we sign Beasley. He was a good pick up for us, because he played okay and raised his trade value out of the toilet in MIA.

[Klomp]

Now the part you skipped quoting. All your proposed options for him involve shipping him out. Do you not think he works well if KAT is playing?

Like I said in my previous post, if the goal is to improve the team, the best use of a $16 million contract is as a trade asset rather than using it for one year on a 33-year old player who would be re-signed next summer for a significantly lower amount.

There are always exceptions, but typically acquiring the better players in the league will acquire more money than acquiring players not as good. This name is likely on the back burner for now, but acquiring Bradley Beal would require coming up with over $23 million in contracts. Towns and Russell wouldn't be dealt in a deal. After Johnson, the next biggest contract available right now is only $6 million and that's the only one over $4 million. So to trade for one player if they're intent on keeping Johnson, it would require dealing 5-6 other players. That's just not very realistic.

I like Johnson a lot. He's a good player. He seems to be a great locker room personality. But I don't let my personal emotions get in the way of my rationalizing why the team would want to make a move for another impact player.

[Domejandro]

MIN: Cristiano Felício, Lauri Markkanan, #7
OUT: James Johnson and #1

Bulls probably say no, but just throwing out a starting point. Lauri Makkanan has been wanting out and only has one year left on his deal, so he is a potential target.

[Neeva]

MIN: Cristiano Felício, Lauri Markkanan, #7
OUT: James Johnson and #1

Bulls probably say no, but just throwing out a starting point. Lauri Makkanan has been wanting out and only has one year left on his deal, so he is a potential target.

Why would the bulls say no that is a homerun for them lol
Johnson would probably have a better season than Markannen.

[Mattya]

MIN: Cristiano Felício, Lauri Markkanan, #7
OUT: James Johnson and #1

Bulls probably say no, but just throwing out a starting point. Lauri Makkanan has been wanting out and only has one year left on his deal, so he is a potential target.

Yea I don't think Markkanen has this value anymore. Especially on the last year of his rookie contract in 20/21.

[SmokeyPaw]

MIN: Cristiano Felício, Lauri Markkanan, #7
OUT: James Johnson and #1

Bulls probably say no, but just throwing out a starting point. Lauri Makkanan has been wanting out and only has one year left on his deal, so he is a potential target.

Yea I don't think Markkanen has this value anymore. Especially on the last year of his rookie contract in 20/21.

Yes I dont think he has this value either. I also think he's a below average defender who is slow on rotations.

[Neeva]

Honestly if Rosas wanted Markkanen he probably could have him (and Felicio) for the Net’s pick(mcdaniels?) a second and Johnson IMO Markannen’s value is so low right now and teams know he wants out so they won’t overbid. I think the highest pick they could get for him is maybe Phoenix at 10 but even then I am not so sure.

[KGdaBom]

MIN: Cristiano Felício, Lauri Markkanan, #7
OUT: James Johnson and #1

Bulls probably say no, but just throwing out a starting point. Lauri Makkanan has been wanting out and only has one year left on his deal, so he is a potential target.

I think it's unanimous that no way we would trade #1 overall or even if our pick ends up #6 for Markannen and Felicio.

[Mattya]

I think OPJ would be the better fit in a trade back.

Wolves pick, Johnson, Layman, Evans, Spellman for OPJ, Bulls pick

[minimus]

I think OPJ would be the better fit in a trade back.

Wolves pick, Johnson, Layman, Evans, Spellman for OPJ, Bulls pick

JJ, Culver, Evans, Spellman, Nowell, MIN FRP for OPJ, CHI pick, Wendell Carter Jr

Draft Vassell. And add microwave scorer such as Maxey, Kira Lewis Jr.

KAT/Carter Jr/Reid
OPJ/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Okogie/Layman/Vassell
Beasley/Vassell/Martin
DLo/Maxey/JMac

[shrink]

Speaking of injury risks, what do you guys think of Oladipo, if IND can’t come to an agreement on an extension?

He turned down 4 for $80 when he was hurt.