2020 NBA Draft Thread

[bucknersrevenge]

Certainly Grant WIlliams was given plenty of time given his rookie status. He has showed some abilities but he is definitely undersized to make a huge impact.

Some of the impact players from the last draft were on bad teams but others were not. Tyler Herro, Goga Bitadze, Brandon Clarke, Matisse Thybulle, among others were able to step in to bench roles and contribute to playoff teams.

I expect players in this upcoming draft to do the same.

I do agree that some players take a while to blossom but I think you can for the most part see pretty early on what you're gonna get from a player.

I just think the idea that we need to trade these picks because we're so close to a run at a Title isn't completely needed. I would have no problem trading picks for a top notch bench player but at the same time I think we could certainly pick someone that will contribute right away.

"championship calibre" "make a huge impact"

Again, no diss but still, I'm getting a lot of buzz words but not enough substance here. What does ",ake a huge impact" actually mean? Because I don't know what's in your head. What exactly were your expectations of Grant Williams when we drafted him? I know he surpassed mine, certainly on defense. Grant has absolutely contributed to a playoff team. What exactly is it you're looking for in a contribution?

Two issues with this draft, there's nobody we will draft at 17 or anywhere we're picking that Brad is going to trust more than the guys we already have. That's about as close to a fact as it gets without being 100%. I could buy the argument of maybe signing an MLE type like a Bertans, or Bjelica, or Harry Giles as was mentioned above. That said, since when is Danny the type to trade a drafted asset before he knows it's true value unless the deal is so obvious a no-brainer that he has to do it? If you're advocating maybe signing 1 veteran to a deal to add to the team, I won't argue; especially if Kanter decides to opt out. But we're the least experienced team in the league. Our window is on the precipice of being thrust open. Let's just sit back for a minute and really see how good we are first before doing anything else.

I'm not a huge stats guy so I can't necessarily give you the specifics you might be looking for, but it's pretty clear that if we had drafted Brandon Clarke we wouldn't need to sign a guy like Harry Giles because Brandon Clarke would be locked up and cost controlled for years to come.

You can fall back on the draft being a crapshoot but that's only true to an extent. I think Brandon Clarke was a pretty sure bet especially where he went and considering we had such a hole in the middle it seems like a pick like that should have been a no brainer.

Danny has another shot this year with 3 first rounders. If he's able to swing a trade for a reliable vet, I'll be on board, but he has to use these picks better because there are going to be reliable players who will make an immediate impact where we are picking. Even if he hits on just one, that's a spot that will be cost controlled for a solid championship run in the next few years.

Well...s**t. Congratulations. winsomme, you found a soft spot. I too wanted Clarke during the draft. And I was a little upset that we did not get him. Here's the thing about that though. There will always be guys that you would've rather seen drafted than the guys we got. Doesn't mean that the guy we ended up with can't do the job. Maybe if we had drafted Clarke we'd be sitting here wondering about HIS impact right now. Or maybe we'd be talking about signing a different guy to fill in where Williams is doing so well.

But that said this discussion will be forever a moving target because you only know what "impact" looks like for you. Since I don't, I'll tell you what it looks like for me.

Last offseason we lost Al Horford and Aron Baynes. Our 2 best defensive big men. We replaced them with Theis playing more minutes, defensive stalwart Enes Kanter, and Grant Williams playing some in the middle. Going into the shutdown Boston was 3rd in the league defending the paint and 4th in overall defensive efficiency.

Watch this video. More specifically, don't just watch the end result of the plays, watch the defensive IQ and the intelligent rotations. Watch what he does BEFORE the play is made. See him being in the right spot all the time. Watch his verticality and his footwork to stay in front of his man. Rookies are not supposed to show this level of IQ on defense, nor this level of versatility.

Watch on YouTube

;t=307s

You watch that and tell me that's not having an impact on team that lost its 2 best interior defenders and still sits atop most defensive metrics. He doesn't play a ton, nor every game, but when he's in there he usually does the right thing. And if you're worrying about ppg as your metric, that narrative can hit the bricks. We start 4 guys capable of scoring 20 on a given night. And if one of those guys isn't there, Marcus Smart, Daniel Theis, or offensive post guy Enes Kanter is picking up that slack. I don't need offense from Grant Williams. Our top 7 guys should be responsible for all of the offense. We don't have to count on rookies for scoring stats.

The Bucks, Lakers, and Clippers are all real title contenders. Quick, without looking anything up, how are the rookies on those teams impacting their teams?

[winsomme2]

"championship calibre" "make a huge impact"

Again, no diss but still, I'm getting a lot of buzz words but not enough substance here. What does ",ake a huge impact" actually mean? Because I don't know what's in your head. What exactly were your expectations of Grant Williams when we drafted him? I know he surpassed mine, certainly on defense. Grant has absolutely contributed to a playoff team. What exactly is it you're looking for in a contribution?

Two issues with this draft, there's nobody we will draft at 17 or anywhere we're picking that Brad is going to trust more than the guys we already have. That's about as close to a fact as it gets without being 100%. I could buy the argument of maybe signing an MLE type like a Bertans, or Bjelica, or Harry Giles as was mentioned above. That said, since when is Danny the type to trade a drafted asset before he knows it's true value unless the deal is so obvious a no-brainer that he has to do it? If you're advocating maybe signing 1 veteran to a deal to add to the team, I won't argue; especially if Kanter decides to opt out. But we're the least experienced team in the league. Our window is on the precipice of being thrust open. Let's just sit back for a minute and really see how good we are first before doing anything else.

I'm not a huge stats guy so I can't necessarily give you the specifics you might be looking for, but it's pretty clear that if we had drafted Brandon Clarke we wouldn't need to sign a guy like Harry Giles because Brandon Clarke would be locked up and cost controlled for years to come.

You can fall back on the draft being a crapshoot but that's only true to an extent. I think Brandon Clarke was a pretty sure bet especially where he went and considering we had such a hole in the middle it seems like a pick like that should have been a no brainer.

Danny has another shot this year with 3 first rounders. If he's able to swing a trade for a reliable vet, I'll be on board, but he has to use these picks better because there are going to be reliable players who will make an immediate impact where we are picking. Even if he hits on just one, that's a spot that will be cost controlled for a solid championship run in the next few years.

Well...s**t. Congratulations. winsomme, you found a soft spot. I too wanted Clarke during the draft. And I was a little upset that we did not get him. Here's the thing about that though. There will always be guys that you would've rather seen drafted than the guys we got. Doesn't mean that the guy we ended up with can't do the job. Maybe if we had drafted Clarke we'd be sitting here wondering about HIS impact right now. Or maybe we'd be talking about signing a different guy to fill in where Williams is doing so well.

But that said this discussion will be forever a moving target because you only know what "impact" looks like for you. Since I don't, I'll tell you what it looks like for me.

Last offseason we lost Al Horford and Aron Baynes. Our 2 best defensive big men. We replaced them with Theis playing more minutes, defensive stalwart Enes Kanter, and Grant Williams playing some in the middle. Going into the shutdown Boston was 3rd in the league defending the paint and 4th in overall defensive efficiency.

Watch this video. More specifically, don't just watch the end result of the plays, watch the defensive IQ and the intelligent rotations. Watch what he does BEFORE the play is made. See him being in the right spot all the time. Watch his verticality and his footwork to stay in front of his man. Rookies are not supposed to show this level of IQ on defense, nor this level of versatility.

Watch on YouTube

;t=307s

You watch that and tell me that's not having an impact on team that lost its 2 best interior defenders and still sits atop most defensive metrics. He doesn't play a ton, nor every game, but when he's in there he usually does the right thing. And if you're worrying about ppg as your metric, that narrative can hit the bricks. We start 4 guys capable of scoring 20 on a given night. And if one of those guys isn't there, Marcus Smart, Daniel Theis, or offensive post guy Enes Kanter is picking up that slack. I don't need offense from Grant Williams. Our top 7 guys should be responsible for all of the offense. We don't have to count on rookies for scoring stats.

The Bucks, Lakers, and Clippers are all real title contenders. Quick, without looking anything up, how are the rookies on those teams impacting their teams?

Fair enough. I like Grant. He's someone I'm glad is on this team but going into the draft I worried that he would be too slow to guard wings and too small to guard bigs. I still feel the same way

But this really isn't about Grant or Brandon for that matter. I think we are actually have two different conversations simultaneously.

We need role players to get to the next level. I think that is patently obvious. They question is can we assemble those through the draft of do we need to cash those picks in and trade for someone.

General feeling about this draft and the last one, are that they are weak. IMO for what we need, I think the opposite. Even 2018 that was true too. We are consistently seeing key role players coming out of the mid to late first round and if Danny could hit on a few more of these, we really wouldn't need to be chasing the Harry Giles/Bertans who you often have to overpay to acquire.

It's true that for every Brandon Clarke there's a bust waiting to be drafted but some guys you're drafting because they have a high floor and other because they have a high ceiling. I think Danny has missed on some high floor guys recently and it's put us in this position where our bench not what it needs to be or easily could be.

Bucks, Lakers, Clippers may not have key players from this last draft but they have key players that were drafted very recently that makes it so they don't have to scour the bargain basement bin to get reliable players off their bench.

[bucknersrevenge]

I'm not a huge stats guy so I can't necessarily give you the specifics you might be looking for, but it's pretty clear that if we had drafted Brandon Clarke we wouldn't need to sign a guy like Harry Giles because Brandon Clarke would be locked up and cost controlled for years to come.

You can fall back on the draft being a crapshoot but that's only true to an extent. I think Brandon Clarke was a pretty sure bet especially where he went and considering we had such a hole in the middle it seems like a pick like that should have been a no brainer.

Danny has another shot this year with 3 first rounders. If he's able to swing a trade for a reliable vet, I'll be on board, but he has to use these picks better because there are going to be reliable players who will make an immediate impact where we are picking. Even if he hits on just one, that's a spot that will be cost controlled for a solid championship run in the next few years.

Well...s**t. Congratulations. winsomme, you found a soft spot. I too wanted Clarke during the draft. And I was a little upset that we did not get him. Here's the thing about that though. There will always be guys that you would've rather seen drafted than the guys we got. Doesn't mean that the guy we ended up with can't do the job. Maybe if we had drafted Clarke we'd be sitting here wondering about HIS impact right now. Or maybe we'd be talking about signing a different guy to fill in where Williams is doing so well.

But that said this discussion will be forever a moving target because you only know what "impact" looks like for you. Since I don't, I'll tell you what it looks like for me.

Last offseason we lost Al Horford and Aron Baynes. Our 2 best defensive big men. We replaced them with Theis playing more minutes, defensive stalwart Enes Kanter, and Grant Williams playing some in the middle. Going into the shutdown Boston was 3rd in the league defending the paint and 4th in overall defensive efficiency.

Watch this video. More specifically, don't just watch the end result of the plays, watch the defensive IQ and the intelligent rotations. Watch what he does BEFORE the play is made. See him being in the right spot all the time. Watch his verticality and his footwork to stay in front of his man. Rookies are not supposed to show this level of IQ on defense, nor this level of versatility.

Watch on YouTube

;t=307s

You watch that and tell me that's not having an impact on team that lost its 2 best interior defenders and still sits atop most defensive metrics. He doesn't play a ton, nor every game, but when he's in there he usually does the right thing. And if you're worrying about ppg as your metric, that narrative can hit the bricks. We start 4 guys capable of scoring 20 on a given night. And if one of those guys isn't there, Marcus Smart, Daniel Theis, or offensive post guy Enes Kanter is picking up that slack. I don't need offense from Grant Williams. Our top 7 guys should be responsible for all of the offense. We don't have to count on rookies for scoring stats.

The Bucks, Lakers, and Clippers are all real title contenders. Quick, without looking anything up, how are the rookies on those teams impacting their teams?

Fair enough. I like Grant. He's someone I'm glad is on this team but going into the draft I worried that he would be too slow to guard wings and too small to guard bigs. I still feel the same way

But this really isn't about Grant or Brandon for that matter. I think we are actually have two different conversations simultaneously.

We need role players to get to the next level. I think that is patently obvious. They question is can we assemble those through the draft of do we need to cash those picks in and trade for someone.

General feeling about this draft and the last one, are that they are weak. IMO for what we need, I think the opposite. Even 2018 that was true too. We are consistently seeing key role players coming out of the mid to late first round and if Danny could hit on a few more of these, we really wouldn't need to be chasing the Harry Giles/Bertans who you often have to overpay to acquire.

It's true that for every Brandon Clarke there's a bust waiting to be drafted but some guys you're drafting because they have a high floor and other because they have a high ceiling. I think Danny has missed on some high floor guys recently and it's put us in this position where our bench not what it needs to be or easily could be.

Bucks, Lakers, Clippers may not have key players from this last draft but they have key players that were drafted very recently that makes it so they don't have to scour the bargain basement bin to get reliable players off their bench.

Yet they still do though. Especially the Lakers. Rajon Rondo, Markieff Morris, Troy Daniels? Hell they got Jared Dudley for half a ham sandwich. The Clippers have no rookies playing key minutes. Shamet is the closest thing who they got back in the Tobias Harris trade but he's been in the league 4 years now. Milwaukee has ONE young player in the rotation and that's DiVencenzo who is a 2nd year player. They picked up Marvin Williams off the scrap heap at the waiver wire. They one of the most experienced teams in the league next to (you guessed it!) the Clips and the Lakers

Truth is, every GM in the league misses on guys. That's the draft. And when you pick where we usually pick you can usually close your eyes and just point.

As for your overall argument about cashing in picks to get role players, that's not something Danny does. I've said this multiple times and I have no proof but my gut based on what I've seen Danny do in the past. I think we draft n stash Pokusevski at 17 and trade the last 2 1st rounders for future picks if we can. Maybe get an extra 2nd rounder who we could take a flyer on and if we like, sign to a non-guaranteed, NBA subsidized contract. That makes sense because we don't have a ton of roster flexibility that Brad is going to want to give up, and we have some financial commitments to make this offseason anyway.

Depending on what happens with our big man depth, I wouldn't mind going after Giles or Bertans and especially in the case of Giles, I don't think we'd have to overpay by much at all. Still a young player with a ton of still untapped potential. Excellent high post passer (which fits in perfectly with what Stevens wants out of his bigs), winning team and is really close with Tatum. Bertans I could see being a slight overpay.

I think bottomline for me is that if we were to make a signing, I think it would only be ONE and no more. I feel comfortable with everything else we have. We're still assessing the value of so many other players and Danny doesn't discard assets without knowing their value. This is also a big reason why I see us making only cosmetic moves this offseason.

[winsomme2]

Well...s**t. Congratulations. winsomme, you found a soft spot. I too wanted Clarke during the draft. And I was a little upset that we did not get him. Here's the thing about that though. There will always be guys that you would've rather seen drafted than the guys we got. Doesn't mean that the guy we ended up with can't do the job. Maybe if we had drafted Clarke we'd be sitting here wondering about HIS impact right now. Or maybe we'd be talking about signing a different guy to fill in where Williams is doing so well.

But that said this discussion will be forever a moving target because you only know what "impact" looks like for you. Since I don't, I'll tell you what it looks like for me.

Last offseason we lost Al Horford and Aron Baynes. Our 2 best defensive big men. We replaced them with Theis playing more minutes, defensive stalwart Enes Kanter, and Grant Williams playing some in the middle. Going into the shutdown Boston was 3rd in the league defending the paint and 4th in overall defensive efficiency.

Watch this video. More specifically, don't just watch the end result of the plays, watch the defensive IQ and the intelligent rotations. Watch what he does BEFORE the play is made. See him being in the right spot all the time. Watch his verticality and his footwork to stay in front of his man. Rookies are not supposed to show this level of IQ on defense, nor this level of versatility.

Watch on YouTube

;t=307s

You watch that and tell me that's not having an impact on team that lost its 2 best interior defenders and still sits atop most defensive metrics. He doesn't play a ton, nor every game, but when he's in there he usually does the right thing. And if you're worrying about ppg as your metric, that narrative can hit the bricks. We start 4 guys capable of scoring 20 on a given night. And if one of those guys isn't there, Marcus Smart, Daniel Theis, or offensive post guy Enes Kanter is picking up that slack. I don't need offense from Grant Williams. Our top 7 guys should be responsible for all of the offense. We don't have to count on rookies for scoring stats.

The Bucks, Lakers, and Clippers are all real title contenders. Quick, without looking anything up, how are the rookies on those teams impacting their teams?

Fair enough. I like Grant. He's someone I'm glad is on this team but going into the draft I worried that he would be too slow to guard wings and too small to guard bigs. I still feel the same way

But this really isn't about Grant or Brandon for that matter. I think we are actually have two different conversations simultaneously.

We need role players to get to the next level. I think that is patently obvious. They question is can we assemble those through the draft of do we need to cash those picks in and trade for someone.

General feeling about this draft and the last one, are that they are weak. IMO for what we need, I think the opposite. Even 2018 that was true too. We are consistently seeing key role players coming out of the mid to late first round and if Danny could hit on a few more of these, we really wouldn't need to be chasing the Harry Giles/Bertans who you often have to overpay to acquire.

It's true that for every Brandon Clarke there's a bust waiting to be drafted but some guys you're drafting because they have a high floor and other because they have a high ceiling. I think Danny has missed on some high floor guys recently and it's put us in this position where our bench not what it needs to be or easily could be.

Bucks, Lakers, Clippers may not have key players from this last draft but they have key players that were drafted very recently that makes it so they don't have to scour the bargain basement bin to get reliable players off their bench.

Yet they still do though. Especially the Lakers. Rajon Rondo, Markieff Morris, Troy Daniels? Hell they got Jared Dudley for half a ham sandwich. The Clippers have no rookies playing key minutes. Shamet is the closest thing who they got back in the Tobias Harris trade but he's been in the league 4 years now. Milwaukee has ONE young player in the rotation and that's DiVencenzo who is a 2nd year player. They picked up Marvin Williams off the scrap heap at the waiver wire. They one of the most experienced teams in the league next to (you guessed it!) the Clips and the Lakers

Truth is, every GM in the league misses on guys. That's the draft. And when you pick where we usually pick you can usually close your eyes and just point.

As for your overall argument about cashing in picks to get role players, that's not something Danny does. I've said this multiple times and I have no proof but my gut based on what I've seen Danny do in the past. I think we draft n stash Pokusevski at 17 and trade the last 2 1st rounders for future picks if we can. Maybe get an extra 2nd rounder who we could take a flyer on and if we like, sign to a non-guaranteed, NBA subsidized contract. That makes sense because we don't have a ton of roster flexibility that Brad is going to want to give up, and we have some financial commitments to make this offseason anyway.

Depending on what happens with our big man depth, I wouldn't mind going after Giles or Bertans and especially in the case of Giles, I don't think we'd have to overpay by much at all. Still a young player with a ton of still untapped potential. Excellent high post passer (which fits in perfectly with what Stevens wants out of his bigs), winning team and is really close with Tatum. Bertans I could see being a slight overpay.

I think bottomline for me is that if we were to make a signing, I think it would only be ONE and no more. I feel comfortable with everything else we have. We're still assessing the value of so many other players and Danny doesn't discard assets without knowing their value. This is also a big reason why I see us making only cosmetic moves this offseason.

I think we're getting lost inside the debate here.

Bottom line for me is our bench is totally inadequate to make a serious run at a Title. Many think we need to cash in chips to get a veteran, but I think we can fill it through the draft. Danny just needs to draft better. He tried to get too cute last year and he missed on Brandon Clarke as a result. It was an obvious pick. I agree that all GMs make bad picks and miss players that end up being stars but that's not what this is. We have our core right now. Danny IMO needs to use our picks to fill out the bench because young players are showing an ability to step right in to key roles and when they do that you are getting a very cost effective piece to round out your roster.

Clips, Lakers, Bucks all have MVP candidates, so they have the added ability of getting players that will sign on to ride the wave. The Cs aren't there yet, so we are either going to have to overpay for a FA or a trade target or Danny needs to hit in the draft.

I think our best chance is to hit in the draft because, like I've been saying, in each of the past couple years, the mid to late first round has been showing multiple guys that step in and perform right away. I think Danny missed on that count last season with Brandon Clarke, but I think he could easily deliver this year. I think this draft class has MANY guys that could step in and play a key role in their first season.

In addition to players I've already mentioned, there more players that could play from essentially day one:

Killian Tillie
Reggie Perry
Jordan Nwora
Xavier Tillman
Tyler Bey
Paul Reed
Tre Jones

These aren't the guys I would target but I think they all are NBA players could play right away and would come at a really appealing price. I mean Bertans would be expensive, but I could easily see Tillie knocking down big similar shots right away.

[bucknersrevenge]

Fair enough. I like Grant. He's someone I'm glad is on this team but going into the draft I worried that he would be too slow to guard wings and too small to guard bigs. I still feel the same way

But this really isn't about Grant or Brandon for that matter. I think we are actually have two different conversations simultaneously.

We need role players to get to the next level. I think that is patently obvious. They question is can we assemble those through the draft of do we need to cash those picks in and trade for someone.

General feeling about this draft and the last one, are that they are weak. IMO for what we need, I think the opposite. Even 2018 that was true too. We are consistently seeing key role players coming out of the mid to late first round and if Danny could hit on a few more of these, we really wouldn't need to be chasing the Harry Giles/Bertans who you often have to overpay to acquire.

It's true that for every Brandon Clarke there's a bust waiting to be drafted but some guys you're drafting because they have a high floor and other because they have a high ceiling. I think Danny has missed on some high floor guys recently and it's put us in this position where our bench not what it needs to be or easily could be.

Bucks, Lakers, Clippers may not have key players from this last draft but they have key players that were drafted very recently that makes it so they don't have to scour the bargain basement bin to get reliable players off their bench.

Yet they still do though. Especially the Lakers. Rajon Rondo, Markieff Morris, Troy Daniels? Hell they got Jared Dudley for half a ham sandwich. The Clippers have no rookies playing key minutes. Shamet is the closest thing who they got back in the Tobias Harris trade but he's been in the league 4 years now. Milwaukee has ONE young player in the rotation and that's DiVencenzo who is a 2nd year player. They picked up Marvin Williams off the scrap heap at the waiver wire. They one of the most experienced teams in the league next to (you guessed it!) the Clips and the Lakers

Truth is, every GM in the league misses on guys. That's the draft. And when you pick where we usually pick you can usually close your eyes and just point.

As for your overall argument about cashing in picks to get role players, that's not something Danny does. I've said this multiple times and I have no proof but my gut based on what I've seen Danny do in the past. I think we draft n stash Pokusevski at 17 and trade the last 2 1st rounders for future picks if we can. Maybe get an extra 2nd rounder who we could take a flyer on and if we like, sign to a non-guaranteed, NBA subsidized contract. That makes sense because we don't have a ton of roster flexibility that Brad is going to want to give up, and we have some financial commitments to make this offseason anyway.

Depending on what happens with our big man depth, I wouldn't mind going after Giles or Bertans and especially in the case of Giles, I don't think we'd have to overpay by much at all. Still a young player with a ton of still untapped potential. Excellent high post passer (which fits in perfectly with what Stevens wants out of his bigs), winning team and is really close with Tatum. Bertans I could see being a slight overpay.

I think bottomline for me is that if we were to make a signing, I think it would only be ONE and no more. I feel comfortable with everything else we have. We're still assessing the value of so many other players and Danny doesn't discard assets without knowing their value. This is also a big reason why I see us making only cosmetic moves this offseason.

I think we're getting lost inside the debate here.

Bottom line for me is our bench is totally inadequate to make a serious run at a Title. Many think we need to cash in chips to get a veteran, but I think we can fill it through the draft. Danny just needs to draft better. He tried to get too cute last year and he missed on Brandon Clarke as a result. It was an obvious pick. I agree that all GMs make bad picks and miss players that end up being stars but that's not what this is. We have our core right now. Danny IMO needs to use our picks to fill out the bench because young players are showing an ability to step right in to key roles and when they do that you are getting a very cost effective piece to round out your roster.

Clips, Lakers, Bucks all have MVP candidates, so they have the added ability of getting players that will sign on to ride the wave. The Cs aren't there yet, so we are either going to have to overpay for a FA or a trade target or Danny needs to hit in the draft.

I think our best chance is to hit in the draft because, like I've been saying, in each of the past couple years, the mid to late first round has been showing multiple guys that step in and perform right away. I think Danny missed on that count last season with Brandon Clarke, but I think he could easily deliver this year. I think this draft class has MANY guys that could step in and play a key role in their first season.

In addition to players I've already mentioned, there more players that could play from essentially day one:

Killian Tillie
Reggie Perry
Jordan Nwora
Xavier Tillman
Tyler Bey
Paul Reed
Tre Jones

These aren't the guys I would target but I think they all are NBA players could play right away and would come at a really appealing price. I mean Bertans would be expensive, but I could easily see Tillie knocking down big similar shots right away.

I'm not ready to go here yet until I actually see this team ya know, make a run. We haven't seen this team in the playoffs yet. Our Top 7 guys have been on the court for only 8 games all year so while this new group that has had to learn how to play together minus the losses of Kyrie Irving, Al Horford, Aron Baynes, Marcus Morris, Terry Rozie all while bringing in a brand new player in Kemba Walker, Enes Kanter and the hoped-for but the uncertainty of Gordon Hayward. All this turnover in one year to the Top 7 portion of our roster and this season they've been on the court for 8 games all year. We haven't seen then ramp up into playoff mode down the stretch like they would during a normal season. We haven't seen what Brad's playoff rotation looks like. We haven't even seen them fail or succeed in the playoffs to have an idea of what their potential strengths or weaknesses are. And we all know that the playoffs is an entirely different animal than the regular season so I'm not hearing "we know enough because of 64 games". BS. We don't know anything yet until this young team as constituted sees the pressure cooker of the playoffs.

Your entire premise is based on insufficient data. That's what I'm saying here. There is no credibility in suggesting how inadequate our bench is for a title run when our bench may just consist of Smart, Kanter, and Semi and no one else in the playoffs and our Big 4 guys do all the scoring.

Depending on how we do in a playoff run, I could see guys interested in signing here after the season to ride a wave that's on its way up. And you're moving the goalposts. Your earlier argument was that the Bucks, Clippers, and Lakers drafted well so they don't have to make free agency pickups. Those teams are ALL free agency pickups.

As for your draft options, I love where your head's at with the 1st 4 guys on that list. After Pokusevski in the 1st round, Nwora, Tillie, and Tillman are my favorites in this draft. I might add Devon Dotson to that list as well. But I'm rooting for them to go undrafted in the 1st round and be available with a 2nd round pick so the league will subsidize their salary. But I like those names. I will say though if Kanter and Rob Williams are still here next season Tillie is not jumping over them in the rotation. None of the guys on that list are jumping over the guys ahead of them. I think Semi is too inexpensive an asset to cut for nothing and the rest of the kids Danny won't trade before knowing their value so again, anybody we draft is going to be a longterm project in Boston.

[winsomme2]

Yet they still do though. Especially the Lakers. Rajon Rondo, Markieff Morris, Troy Daniels? Hell they got Jared Dudley for half a ham sandwich. The Clippers have no rookies playing key minutes. Shamet is the closest thing who they got back in the Tobias Harris trade but he's been in the league 4 years now. Milwaukee has ONE young player in the rotation and that's DiVencenzo who is a 2nd year player. They picked up Marvin Williams off the scrap heap at the waiver wire. They one of the most experienced teams in the league next to (you guessed it!) the Clips and the Lakers

Truth is, every GM in the league misses on guys. That's the draft. And when you pick where we usually pick you can usually close your eyes and just point.

As for your overall argument about cashing in picks to get role players, that's not something Danny does. I've said this multiple times and I have no proof but my gut based on what I've seen Danny do in the past. I think we draft n stash Pokusevski at 17 and trade the last 2 1st rounders for future picks if we can. Maybe get an extra 2nd rounder who we could take a flyer on and if we like, sign to a non-guaranteed, NBA subsidized contract. That makes sense because we don't have a ton of roster flexibility that Brad is going to want to give up, and we have some financial commitments to make this offseason anyway.

Depending on what happens with our big man depth, I wouldn't mind going after Giles or Bertans and especially in the case of Giles, I don't think we'd have to overpay by much at all. Still a young player with a ton of still untapped potential. Excellent high post passer (which fits in perfectly with what Stevens wants out of his bigs), winning team and is really close with Tatum. Bertans I could see being a slight overpay.

I think bottomline for me is that if we were to make a signing, I think it would only be ONE and no more. I feel comfortable with everything else we have. We're still assessing the value of so many other players and Danny doesn't discard assets without knowing their value. This is also a big reason why I see us making only cosmetic moves this offseason.

I think we're getting lost inside the debate here.

Bottom line for me is our bench is totally inadequate to make a serious run at a Title. Many think we need to cash in chips to get a veteran, but I think we can fill it through the draft. Danny just needs to draft better. He tried to get too cute last year and he missed on Brandon Clarke as a result. It was an obvious pick. I agree that all GMs make bad picks and miss players that end up being stars but that's not what this is. We have our core right now. Danny IMO needs to use our picks to fill out the bench because young players are showing an ability to step right in to key roles and when they do that you are getting a very cost effective piece to round out your roster.

Clips, Lakers, Bucks all have MVP candidates, so they have the added ability of getting players that will sign on to ride the wave. The Cs aren't there yet, so we are either going to have to overpay for a FA or a trade target or Danny needs to hit in the draft.

I think our best chance is to hit in the draft because, like I've been saying, in each of the past couple years, the mid to late first round has been showing multiple guys that step in and perform right away. I think Danny missed on that count last season with Brandon Clarke, but I think he could easily deliver this year. I think this draft class has MANY guys that could step in and play a key role in their first season.

In addition to players I've already mentioned, there more players that could play from essentially day one:

Killian Tillie
Reggie Perry
Jordan Nwora
Xavier Tillman
Tyler Bey
Paul Reed
Tre Jones

These aren't the guys I would target but I think they all are NBA players could play right away and would come at a really appealing price. I mean Bertans would be expensive, but I could easily see Tillie knocking down big similar shots right away.

I'm not ready to go here yet until I actually see this team ya know, make a run. We haven't seen this team in the playoffs yet. Our Top 7 guys have been on the court for only 8 games all year so while this new group that has had to learn how to play together minus the losses of Kyrie Irving, Al Horford, Aron Baynes, Marcus Morris, Terry Rozie all while bringing in a brand new player in Kemba Walker, Enes Kanter and the hoped-for but the uncertainty of Gordon Hayward. All this turnover in one year to the Top 7 portion of our roster and this season they've been on the court for 8 games all year. We haven't seen then ramp up into playoff mode down the stretch like they would during a normal season. We haven't seen what Brad's playoff rotation looks like. We haven't even seen them fail or succeed in the playoffs to have an idea of what their potential strengths or weaknesses are. And we all know that the playoffs is an entirely different animal than the regular season so I'm not hearing "we know enough because of 64 games". BS. We don't know anything yet until this young team as constituted sees the pressure cooker of the playoffs.

Your entire premise is based on insufficient data. That's what I'm saying here. There is no credibility in suggesting how inadequate our bench is for a title run when our bench may just consist of Smart, Kanter, and Semi and no one else in the playoffs and our Big 4 guys do all the scoring.

Depending on how we do in a playoff run, I could see guys interested in signing here after the season to ride a wave that's on its way up. And you're moving the goalposts. Your earlier argument was that the Bucks, Clippers, and Lakers drafted well so they don't have to make free agency pickups. Those teams are ALL free agency pickups.

As for your draft options, I love where your head's at with the 1st 4 guys on that list. After Pokusevski in the 1st round, Nwora, Tillie, and Tillman are my favorites in this draft. I might add Devon Dotson to that list as well. But I'm rooting for them to go undrafted in the 1st round and be available with a 2nd round pick so the league will subsidize their salary. But I like those names. I will say though if Kanter and Rob Williams are still here next season Tillie is not jumping over them in the rotation. None of the guys on that list are jumping over the guys ahead of them. I think Semi is too inexpensive an asset to cut for nothing and the rest of the kids Danny won't trade before knowing their value so again, anybody we draft is going to be a longterm project in Boston.

I'd love to see this team as currently constructed make a playoff run. That said, I have a firmly held belief that we don't have the depth to go deep into the playoffs. Time will tell.

As for the top teams, I'm not saying they need those hanger-oners but I think they are certainly able to benefit from them in a way that we currently are not. I do think that they have benefitted from the type of players that I want the Cs to benefit from (ie mid to late first rounders that contribute and are playing on short money). I'm not trying to move the goal posts. I'm just trying to point out that we have a smaller margin for error because those if those teams don't draft well they can fall back on vets who will just sign on for minimum deals that can be easily cut.

Anyway, if Semi step up and is a reliable contributor off the bench, the need goes way down. I did really like him coming out of college but his shot just does not fall consistently enough IMO to be relied upon in the playoffs in a key bench role. Our other guys are equally questionable Edwards, Williams, Wannamaker, etc... Again, I hope for the best, but if they prove to not be up to the job, I think Danny could land some new options in the 2020 draft

[bucknersrevenge]

I think we're getting lost inside the debate here.

Bottom line for me is our bench is totally inadequate to make a serious run at a Title. Many think we need to cash in chips to get a veteran, but I think we can fill it through the draft. Danny just needs to draft better. He tried to get too cute last year and he missed on Brandon Clarke as a result. It was an obvious pick. I agree that all GMs make bad picks and miss players that end up being stars but that's not what this is. We have our core right now. Danny IMO needs to use our picks to fill out the bench because young players are showing an ability to step right in to key roles and when they do that you are getting a very cost effective piece to round out your roster.

Clips, Lakers, Bucks all have MVP candidates, so they have the added ability of getting players that will sign on to ride the wave. The Cs aren't there yet, so we are either going to have to overpay for a FA or a trade target or Danny needs to hit in the draft.

I think our best chance is to hit in the draft because, like I've been saying, in each of the past couple years, the mid to late first round has been showing multiple guys that step in and perform right away. I think Danny missed on that count last season with Brandon Clarke, but I think he could easily deliver this year. I think this draft class has MANY guys that could step in and play a key role in their first season.

In addition to players I've already mentioned, there more players that could play from essentially day one:

Killian Tillie
Reggie Perry
Jordan Nwora
Xavier Tillman
Tyler Bey
Paul Reed
Tre Jones

These aren't the guys I would target but I think they all are NBA players could play right away and would come at a really appealing price. I mean Bertans would be expensive, but I could easily see Tillie knocking down big similar shots right away.

I'm not ready to go here yet until I actually see this team ya know, make a run. We haven't seen this team in the playoffs yet. Our Top 7 guys have been on the court for only 8 games all year so while this new group that has had to learn how to play together minus the losses of Kyrie Irving, Al Horford, Aron Baynes, Marcus Morris, Terry Rozie all while bringing in a brand new player in Kemba Walker, Enes Kanter and the hoped-for but the uncertainty of Gordon Hayward. All this turnover in one year to the Top 7 portion of our roster and this season they've been on the court for 8 games all year. We haven't seen then ramp up into playoff mode down the stretch like they would during a normal season. We haven't seen what Brad's playoff rotation looks like. We haven't even seen them fail or succeed in the playoffs to have an idea of what their potential strengths or weaknesses are. And we all know that the playoffs is an entirely different animal than the regular season so I'm not hearing "we know enough because of 64 games". BS. We don't know anything yet until this young team as constituted sees the pressure cooker of the playoffs.

Your entire premise is based on insufficient data. That's what I'm saying here. There is no credibility in suggesting how inadequate our bench is for a title run when our bench may just consist of Smart, Kanter, and Semi and no one else in the playoffs and our Big 4 guys do all the scoring.

Depending on how we do in a playoff run, I could see guys interested in signing here after the season to ride a wave that's on its way up. And you're moving the goalposts. Your earlier argument was that the Bucks, Clippers, and Lakers drafted well so they don't have to make free agency pickups. Those teams are ALL free agency pickups.

As for your draft options, I love where your head's at with the 1st 4 guys on that list. After Pokusevski in the 1st round, Nwora, Tillie, and Tillman are my favorites in this draft. I might add Devon Dotson to that list as well. But I'm rooting for them to go undrafted in the 1st round and be available with a 2nd round pick so the league will subsidize their salary. But I like those names. I will say though if Kanter and Rob Williams are still here next season Tillie is not jumping over them in the rotation. None of the guys on that list are jumping over the guys ahead of them. I think Semi is too inexpensive an asset to cut for nothing and the rest of the kids Danny won't trade before knowing their value so again, anybody we draft is going to be a longterm project in Boston.

I'd love to see this team as currently constructed make a playoff run. That said, I have a firmly held belief that we don't have the depth to go deep into the playoffs. Time will tell.

As for the top teams, I'm not saying they need those hanger-oners but I think they are certainly able to benefit from them in a way that we currently are not. I do think that they have benefitted from the type of players that I want the Cs to benefit from (ie mid to late first rounders that contribute and are playing on short money). I'm not trying to move the goal posts. I'm just trying to point out that we have a smaller margin for error because those if those teams don't draft well they can fall back on vets who will just sign on for minimum deals that can be easily cut.

Anyway, if Semi step up and is a reliable contributor off the bench, the need goes way down. I did really like him coming out of college but his shot just does not fall consistently enough IMO to be relied upon in the playoffs in a key bench role. Our other guys are equally questionable Edwards, Williams, Wannamaker, etc... Again, I hope for the best, but if they prove to not be up to the job, I think Danny could land some new options in the 2020 draft

Agreed on all points here. It's been excellent hashing this out with you.

[Floody100]

Really like the look of Achiuwa, what’s everyone’s thoughts on him ?

[big-shot-ROB]

Really like the look of Achiuwa, what’s everyone’s thoughts on him ?

He is useless on the Cs. We don't need any prospects right now, specially if they are going to be as bad and raw as precious.

[Floody100]

Really like the look of Achiuwa, what’s everyone’s thoughts on him ?

He is useless on the Cs. We don't need any prospects right now, specially if they are going to be as bad and raw as precious.

I don’t watch much college basketball so I’m not really sure on all the prospects. Considering we have a fairly young team I thought he’s be a player we’d look at going for ?

[Homerclease]

Really like the look of Achiuwa, what’s everyone’s thoughts on him ?

He is useless on the Cs. We don't need any prospects right now, specially if they are going to be as bad and raw as precious.

Disagree, given the state of the Celtics cap going forward. Prospects is exactly what they need, although I share your feelings towards Precious. Not a fan personally. Team needs young, cost controlled talent to fill out the roster with Tatums mega deal looming on the horizon

[Sactowndog]

Some word Wiseman may be falling. Let’s assume he falls to 12 where the Kings sit... does Boston make an offer to move up to that spot and take Wiseman. If so what do they offer. As a Boston and Kings fan I find this interesting.

[Jacobkowal]

Some word Wiseman may be falling. Let’s assume he falls to 12 where the Kings sit... does Boston make an offer to move up to that spot and take Wiseman. If so what do they offer. As a Boston and Kings fan I find this interesting.

If Boston is interested in Wiseman, they'd probably only offer picks, so I'd say 17,26,46 for 12 maybe?

[big-shot-ROB]

Really like the look of Achiuwa, what’s everyone’s thoughts on him ?

He is useless on the Cs. We don't need any prospects right now, specially if they are going to be as bad and raw as precious.

Disagree, given the state of the Celtics cap going forward. Prospects is exactly what they need, although I share your feelings towards Precious. Not a fan personally. Team needs young, cost controlled talent to fill out the roster with Tatums mega deal looming on the horizon

I'd say we need cheap, veteran cost controlled assets. If we lose Semi, Kanter, Wannamaker and replace them with 3 langfords or more raw prospects, the season is going to be rough.

Getting cheap veterans won't be easy as we've seen this season, with all choosing to go to the likes of the LA teams, Bucks, etc. So I wouldn't mind using a couple of first rounders on sophomores and juniors ready to contribute despite having a potential lower ceiling than other prospects.

[big-shot-ROB]

Some word Wiseman may be falling. Let’s assume he falls to 12 where the Kings sit... does Boston make an offer to move up to that spot and take Wiseman. If so what do they offer. As a Boston and Kings fan I find this interesting.

I don't think Wiseman falls that far. Despite the glaring flaws he has in his game, and the fact that all his advanced stats show that you have to be a multiposition center in order to impacy winning (which Wiseman right now isn't), in this super weak draft anywhere from past beyond 8 is really great value for someone like Wiseman.

I'd say if he's there at 12 I wouldn't mind the Celtics throwing 17, 30, 46 and Edwards/Waters to move up. Having a legit 7 footer with his ability to rim-run and rebound for 4 years (after which Walker's and Hayward's contracts would be all up) wouldn't be a bad move.

Despite that, I'd say if we are trying to make a run with the current roster, we shouldn't fall for the problems we've had in the past of trying to win but at the same time rebuild through prospects. So I'd like to go out of this offseason with experienced bench presence (either draftees or FAs).

[big-shot-ROB]

Really like the look of Achiuwa, what’s everyone’s thoughts on him ?

He is useless on the Cs. We don't need any prospects right now, specially if they are going to be as bad and raw as precious.

I don’t watch much college basketball so I’m not really sure on all the prospects. Considering we have a fairly young team I thought he’s be a player we’d look at going for ?

Precious is stuck in no man's land. He is a forward defensively (3s and 4s), and that's were his greater value comes from. Given his athletic baseline and measurements, with proper training, he should be a servicible defender at least.

The problem comes on offense. His offensive game is non-existen. He doesn't do anything that 3s and 4s should be able to do. So he should be played with a 5-role (screening, cutting, catching some lobs and dump-offs). But this means that you need another big next to him that can play the perimeter and shoot from outside, as if he's playing in the perimeter that's one player the defense can basically ignore.

But that other big next to him needs to be a legit big, as Precious can not defend 5s on defense.

So that's where all the trouble with Precious comes from.

[winsomme2]

I'm not ready to go here yet until I actually see this team ya know, make a run. We haven't seen this team in the playoffs yet. Our Top 7 guys have been on the court for only 8 games all year so while this new group that has had to learn how to play together minus the losses of Kyrie Irving, Al Horford, Aron Baynes, Marcus Morris, Terry Rozie all while bringing in a brand new player in Kemba Walker, Enes Kanter and the hoped-for but the uncertainty of Gordon Hayward. All this turnover in one year to the Top 7 portion of our roster and this season they've been on the court for 8 games all year. We haven't seen then ramp up into playoff mode down the stretch like they would during a normal season. We haven't seen what Brad's playoff rotation looks like. We haven't even seen them fail or succeed in the playoffs to have an idea of what their potential strengths or weaknesses are. And we all know that the playoffs is an entirely different animal than the regular season so I'm not hearing "we know enough because of 64 games". BS. We don't know anything yet until this young team as constituted sees the pressure cooker of the playoffs.

Your entire premise is based on insufficient data. That's what I'm saying here. There is no credibility in suggesting how inadequate our bench is for a title run when our bench may just consist of Smart, Kanter, and Semi and no one else in the playoffs and our Big 4 guys do all the scoring.

Depending on how we do in a playoff run, I could see guys interested in signing here after the season to ride a wave that's on its way up. And you're moving the goalposts. Your earlier argument was that the Bucks, Clippers, and Lakers drafted well so they don't have to make free agency pickups. Those teams are ALL free agency pickups.

As for your draft options, I love where your head's at with the 1st 4 guys on that list. After Pokusevski in the 1st round, Nwora, Tillie, and Tillman are my favorites in this draft. I might add Devon Dotson to that list as well. But I'm rooting for them to go undrafted in the 1st round and be available with a 2nd round pick so the league will subsidize their salary. But I like those names. I will say though if Kanter and Rob Williams are still here next season Tillie is not jumping over them in the rotation. None of the guys on that list are jumping over the guys ahead of them. I think Semi is too inexpensive an asset to cut for nothing and the rest of the kids Danny won't trade before knowing their value so again, anybody we draft is going to be a longterm project in Boston.

I'd love to see this team as currently constructed make a playoff run. That said, I have a firmly held belief that we don't have the depth to go deep into the playoffs. Time will tell.

As for the top teams, I'm not saying they need those hanger-oners but I think they are certainly able to benefit from them in a way that we currently are not. I do think that they have benefitted from the type of players that I want the Cs to benefit from (ie mid to late first rounders that contribute and are playing on short money). I'm not trying to move the goal posts. I'm just trying to point out that we have a smaller margin for error because those if those teams don't draft well they can fall back on vets who will just sign on for minimum deals that can be easily cut.

Anyway, if Semi step up and is a reliable contributor off the bench, the need goes way down. I did really like him coming out of college but his shot just does not fall consistently enough IMO to be relied upon in the playoffs in a key bench role. Our other guys are equally questionable Edwards, Williams, Wannamaker, etc... Again, I hope for the best, but if they prove to not be up to the job, I think Danny could land some new options in the 2020 draft

Agreed on all points here. It's been excellent hashing this out with you.

Likewise.

As for Semi, he actually has a bit of a clone in this year's draft. Desmond Bane. Built like a truck. Nice outside shot. Good defender. Maybe a little more limber.

Didn't know about him during the year, but his highlights are intriguing.

[theman]

I've seen two different mocks with Patrick Williams going to the Celtics. Shouldn't be confusing with Grant and Robert already here. Speaking of which. I want to see more Robert Williams.

[Homerclease]

He is useless on the Cs. We don't need any prospects right now, specially if they are going to be as bad and raw as precious.

Disagree, given the state of the Celtics cap going forward. Prospects is exactly what they need, although I share your feelings towards Precious. Not a fan personally. Team needs young, cost controlled talent to fill out the roster with Tatums mega deal looming on the horizon

I'd say we need cheap, veteran cost controlled assets. If we lose Semi, Kanter, Wannamaker and replace them with 3 langfords or more raw prospects, the season is going to be rough.

Getting cheap veterans won't be easy as we've seen this season, with all choosing to go to the likes of the LA teams, Bucks, etc. So I wouldn't mind using a couple of first rounders on sophomores and juniors ready to contribute despite having a potential lower ceiling than other prospects.

If our title hopes rest on guys like Semi, Kanter and Wanamaker then we aren’t anywhere close to a title. Semi was barely in the rotation as is, Wanamaker is extremely replaceable and they can use the MLE to replace Kanter along with internal growth from Williams x2 and even Fall. I was ready to move on from Wanamaker to Waters last year. Absolutely no problem doing it this year.

I don’t mind the picks and prospects because I view this teams window as still a year or two away when Tatum and Brown reach their primes. Hopefully come that time, Hayward and Kemba still have some left in the tank and the youth that the Celtics have develop into productive players or develop enough trade value to add a missing piece.

[Sactowndog]

Some word Wiseman may be falling. Let’s assume he falls to 12 where the Kings sit... does Boston make an offer to move up to that spot and take Wiseman. If so what do they offer. As a Boston and Kings fan I find this interesting.

I don't think Wiseman falls that far. Despite the glaring flaws he has in his game, and the fact that all his advanced stats show that you have to be a multiposition center in order to impacy winning (which Wiseman right now isn't), in this super weak draft anywhere from past beyond 8 is really great value for someone like Wiseman.

I'd say if he's there at 12 I wouldn't mind the Celtics throwing 17, 30, 46 and Edwards/Waters to move up. Having a legit 7 footer with his ability to rim-run and rebound for 4 years (after which Walker's and Hayward's contracts would be all up) wouldn't be a bad move.

Despite that, I'd say if we are trying to make a run with the current roster, we shouldn't fall for the problems we've had in the past of trying to win but at the same time rebuild through prospects. So I'd like to go out of this offseason with experienced bench presence (either draftees or FAs).

I’m just assuming he does. I think the Kings counter with 17, 26 and Langford.