ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion

[DirtyDez]

After Chuck's comments I looked up CHI/PHX Game 2 in 1993

Bulls win 111-108, and the score in the 4th quarter was 24-24, so likely a true dogfight/great game.

Barkley brings his MVP game:
42pts (16-26 0-1 10-12) 13reb 4ast 1stl 1blk 2TO

Michael counters with:
42pts (18-36 2-2 4-5) 12reb 9ast 2stl 0blk 5TO

Now that's a good ole fashioned high level HOF duel with everything at stake.


In Game 4 Chuck dropped a 32-12-10 triple double only to watch the Bulls win anyway as Michael dropped 55 the other way.

One of the weirdest series ever. The home team won one game and people forget the Bulls were DOWN when Paxton hits the shot. We almost had a Jordan/Barkley game 7 for all the marbles.

[LKN]

I'm enjoying this, however, the grip Jordan has over the narrative is clear. Obviously that is the only way to bring him on board, but a true documentary really getting under the skin of some of the issues would be even more interesting.

Krause is a dick. But hes really getting screwed over here, he is entirely right that the organisation doesn't get the credit it deserves. If Krause doesn't do his job well, MJ wins zero rings and we aren't watching a documentary.

Eh, Krause is being portrayed pretty much the same way here as he has in other works. I've posted this several times already - but the narrative being presented matches the narrative in playing for keeps by Halberstam pretty well. One noticeable difference is that they are going much easier on Reinsdorf in this series. Halberstam gives him just as much blame as Krause.

[jc23]

Curly hair security man stole the weekend.

[prolific passer]

His god line to randy brown was so awesome

Honestly made me like him so much more than I already did

Larry Bird was right all along.

[KGtabake]

Just finished 5 & 6.
I love the fact that they didn't hide the gambling issue.
Back then with no social media and this thing was all over the news, even here in Europe.
Imagine having social media at the time....he would be ctucified although he didn't do something illegal.
I loved these 2 episodes. The best so far.
Toni Kukoc was a great talent at the time. Obviously he didn't deserve that behavior by Scottie and MJ.
And we don't know if MJ is right regarding Grant's leaks from the lockers. It can't be proven.
Great great episodes.
Looking forward to #7 and #8. We'll see the early retirement years i guess(93-95)

PS. There's only one real GOAT

[InsideInfo]

Those sun glasses were a bad idea during that interview to talk about his gambling lol.

[Klayforspicy]

Half the league had a gambling addiction and still do.
Nobody that competitive leaves it just on the court.

[Chanel Bomber]

Two notes:

- I really respect how the series has been directed but I can't believe they didn't insert the famous shot of Laimbeer and Isiah looking through the camera in the hallway. That shot is the most intimidating and one of the most powerful shots in NBA history. If you want to emphasize how for real the bad boys were, just insert that image. The look in their eyes just speaks for itself.

- I loved the music they used when they show the Bulls winning their first chip in LA. It's exhilarating.

What shot is this?

The shot where the camera pans from Laimbeer to Thomas staring beyond the camera.

https://imgur.com/a/JjaOnAF

[beeshma]

Imagine the NBA from 94-00 without MJ. It might’ve died.

I know you are bing hyperbolic.... but those ratings don't lie:



1993, 1996, 1997 and 1998 remain the 4 highest rated finals ever. 1991 is 6th.

The 1986 finals is the only non MJ/Bulls series in the top 5

A lot of that had to do with the fact that the Eastern Conference and most big market teams(Chicago, NY, Philly, Boston, Miami etc.) were terrible during 00-04.

For the drop in '99 I think you have to factor in the Internet. There were suddenly fewer eyeballs interested in watching the game on TV. That was the year when high speed internet became widely available, both DSL and cable modems. So the Internet was suddenly more appealing to a wider range of people.

[NBAFan93]

Half the league had a gambling addiction and still do.
Nobody that competitive leaves it just on the court.

I think in some respects today’s media is much more friendly towards players and hides their off the court indiscretions. Especially the mainstream media like ESPN, TNT. It almost seems like an unwritten rule nowadays to not talk about that stuff - they leave it to TMZ.

[LKN]

I know you are bing hyperbolic.... but those ratings don't lie:



1993, 1996, 1997 and 1998 remain the 4 highest rated finals ever. 1991 is 6th.

The 1986 finals is the only non MJ/Bulls series in the top 5

A lot of that had to do with the fact that the Eastern Conference and most big market teams(Chicago, NY, Philly, Boston, Miami etc.) were terrible during 00-04.

For the drop in '99 I think you have to factor in the Internet. There were suddenly fewer eyeballs interested in watching the game on TV. That was the year when high speed internet became widely available, both DSL and cable modems. So the Internet was suddenly more appealing to a wider range of people.

The vast majority of people were still on dial-up then (if they had internet at all):



From:

https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2006/05/28/part-1-broadband-adoption-in-the-united-states/

Bittorrent didn't even exist yet then. You could certainly find things you wanted to download - but streaming (illegal or not) wasn't really a thing in 1999. Youtube was still 5-6 years away.

[NaturalThunder]

Curly hair security man stole the weekend.

Yep, he was the true star of last night's episodes. His swag level was through the roof. I mean to live life with that haircut, back up his s**t talking to MJ with some mad quarter-tossing skills, and celebrate beating MJ by mimicking MJ's shoulder shrug? That security guard was a boss.


One of my favorite lines came when the documentary was covering how as soon as MJ took a step out of his hotel room, he was pretty much immediately swarmed and hounded by media. And they showed a short clip from a SportsCenter episode and one of the anchors said "when he (M.J.) eats a pepperoni, the media burps."

Not the best/most memorable one liner from the series so far, but I think it's up there somewhere behind "if you're getting ready for work this morning, you're probably not Doug Collins" and "I'm like, yeah, ok. Whatever. F**k this bull****."

[Mamba Mentality]

The Kobe bit at the start of Episode 5 choked me up pretty bad. Kobe giving Michael the ultimate respect by saying I don't win 5 titles/championships without him just goes onto show the genuine respect that the two shared. Wish Mamba was still here to relive these moments, bet he would have enjoyed every minute of it just as much as us fans.

[Else_where]

6th episode reminded me Stereo MC's "Connected" and how much i was a fan of John Starks. Met him years later in his cigar lounge in NY, great guy.

[TheFinishSniper]

Half the league had a gambling addiction and still do.
Nobody that competitive leaves it just on the court.

they just play battle royales like Fortnite...

[3toheadmelo]

After Chuck's comments I looked up CHI/PHX Game 2 in 1993

Bulls win 111-108, and the score in the 4th quarter was 24-24, so likely a true dogfight/great game.

Barkley brings his MVP game:
42pts (16-26 0-1 10-12) 13reb 4ast 1stl 1blk 2TO

Michael counters with:
42pts (18-36 2-2 4-5) 12reb 9ast 2stl 0blk 5TO

Now that's a good ole fashioned high level HOF duel with everything at stake.


In Game 4 Chuck dropped a 32-12-10 triple double only to watch the Bulls win anyway as Michael dropped 55 the other way.

Yeah Charles said he played as best as he could and that was the first time he realized there was a player better than him, Michael Jordan.

[beeshma]

A lot of that had to do with the fact that the Eastern Conference and most big market teams(Chicago, NY, Philly, Boston, Miami etc.) were terrible during 00-04.

For the drop in '99 I think you have to factor in the Internet. There were suddenly fewer eyeballs interested in watching the game on TV. That was the year when high speed internet became widely available, both DSL and cable modems. So the Internet was suddenly more appealing to a wider range of people.

The vast majority of people were still on dial-up then (if they had internet at all):



From:

https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2006/05/28/part-1-broadband-adoption-in-the-united-states/

Bittorrent didn't even exist yet then. You could certainly find things you wanted to download - but streaming (illegal or not) wasn't really a thing in 1999. Youtube was still 5-6 years away.

It's so startling to see these numbers. We lived in the Internet stone age until well past 2005!

[LKN]

For the drop in '99 I think you have to factor in the Internet. There were suddenly fewer eyeballs interested in watching the game on TV. That was the year when high speed internet became widely available, both DSL and cable modems. So the Internet was suddenly more appealing to a wider range of people.

The vast majority of people were still on dial-up then (if they had internet at all):



From:

https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2006/05/28/part-1-broadband-adoption-in-the-united-states/

Bittorrent didn't even exist yet then. You could certainly find things you wanted to download - but streaming (illegal or not) wasn't really a thing in 1999. Youtube was still 5-6 years away.

It's so startling to see these numbers. We lived in the Internet stone age until well past 2005!

I had ethernet as a freshman in college in 1994.... that.was.nuts!

[Run DLC]

MJ’s competitiveness is unmatched. It’s clear as day that LeBron doesn’t come close to his level of mental toughness and competitive drive. I can’t ever picture MJ outright saying he wants to team up with Barkley, Ewing, Magic, Bird the way LeBron has on countless occasions. I see the hunger in KD’s, Kawhi’s, and Giannis eyes when they play against LeBron, but LeBron doesn’t show that same hunger in return. It’s almost like he wants to be their BFF while they’re on the court. The way he tried to recruited Kawhi to the Lakers was utterly pathetic and made him looked beyond soft. I don’t care about championships count as much as most fans do when it comes to the MJ-LeBron comparison, but from a competitor level, it’s not that hard to see who’s the real alpha.

[The Rodzilla]

it was so funny when Jordan couldn't handle some bad articles about him, he got used to everyone writing love pieces about him that he lost touch of reality and forgot that not everything is going to go your way

if he quit over it that proves he is mentally weak and wouldn't be able to participate in todays basketball with scrutiny up the ass and social media